Remove ads

Paths of Civilization II: Paths of Industrialization

Reader mode
HanEmpire said:
Just to note, these trains are useless for Kyberian expansion. At most they'll make some mines and factories more efficient in the Core.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I still want to throw development at them ASAP. Not selling ourselves to the Sketch, but we SHOULD throw crown money at trains until we work the kinks out and push the tech another jump ASAP. I want to be the first in the world to practical intercity rail networks.
 
Academia Nut said:
While part of this was luck, a big part of this was narrative driven by your high Trust and Espionage. You had the capacities in place to take advantage of a lucky break, and the narrative you have been crafting means that the bitter, dispirited coordinator who has no reason to support the actual masterminds has the tiniest sliver of reason to turn the information over to you.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yay, Sadness! And you guys thought it was a bad idea.

[X] [Kielmyr] 0 PW - A slight reworking of tariffs may be in order (-1 Temp SoL, +1 Temp IC, Kielmyr mildly accepting)
[X] [Trains] 0 PW - Buy what is available (-1 Temp SoL, Prototype Railroad [Open] and boosted)
[X] [Sheep] 2 PW - Aid shall be theirs (Sending Technical Advisors, -1 IC, Medium Investment in Black Sheep, Black Sheep very pleased)
[X] [Officers] +1 PW - Yes (Black Sheep pleased)
[X] [Conspiracy] 1 PW - Send out a warning while publicly decrying the Ochruhr for their involvement (-1 Trust, potential war with Ochruhr, ???)
 
HanEmpire said:
Just to note, these trains are useless for Kyberian expansion. At most they'll make some mines and factories more efficient in the Core.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Nah, they likely will still make things somewhat better - at least some part of Core-Kyberi path will be railroaded, even if won't be the hardest part of the journey.
Not taiga and not deserts, but some of the European temperate chunk of the road can be improved by this, I imagine. Which is...something.
 
Further example of how they are being used right now:
Academia Nut said:
Essentially a mobile steam engine that could run on rails to haul large amounts of goods, they were already showing success in certain mines and in places where canals could not be effectively cut.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
ctulhuslp said:
Nah, they likely will still make things somewhat better - at least some part of Core-Kyberi path will be railroaded, even if won't be the hardest part of the journey.
Not taiga and not deserts, but some of the European temperate chunk of the road can be improved by this, I imagine. Which is...something.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
We need more steel for that. Like, a LOT more steel to make it go any real distance.
 
Varano said:
Explain your reasoning please, it looks like there isn't one.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This here:
Academia Nut said:
Romv said:
@Academia Nut Will getting railroad tech mechanically improve the Kyberia Infrastructure action?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
At the level of railroad tech available for you: no. The railroads you could make simply aren't usable out there, and you don't have the economy to build the amount of steel you would need anyway.

Right now railroads are going to be Max IC raisers. Now, taking the railroad action will contribute to improving transportation infrastructure, but the technology and economy just isn't in place to result in radical changes long distance.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 
Still a step in the right direction. Getting small rails is often a prerequisite for an actual rail network. I think buying pieces will be sufficient, though.
 
ctulhuslp said:
Hey, we had more than enough discussion that people basically already had discussed most about votes.
It's not a bandwagon if it was shaped by 10 hours of discussion, you know?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

tenchifew said:
I must speak up against this.
This is a bandwagon, but certainly not an early one, but a result of ten hours of discussion and people reading pro and con arguments for the options.

Votes often are more uniform after a morato´rium, simply because people had enough time to discuss things through first.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
10 hours of discussion based on incomplete information which does not reflect what we know now. It's a bandwagon on early information. The length of discussion doesn't matter if it doesn't address new information.
 
[X] [Kielmyr] 0 PW - A slight reworking of tariffs may be in order (-1 Temp SoL, +1 Temp IC, Kielmyr mildly accepting)
[X] [Trains] 0 PW - Buy what is available (-1 Temp SoL, Prototype Railroad [Open] and boosted)
[X] [Sheep] 2 PW - Aid shall be theirs (Sending Technical Advisors, -1 IC, Medium Investment in Black Sheep, Black Sheep very pleased)
[X] [Officers] +1 PW - Yes (Black Sheep pleased)
[X] [Conspiracy] 1 PW - Send out a warning while publicly decrying the Ochruhr for their involvement (-1 Trust, potential war with Ochruhr, ???)
Adhoc vote count started by liberty90 on Apr 5, 2018 at 2:00 PM, finished with 8984 posts and 29 votes.
Click to expand...
 
Citino said:
We need more steel for that. Like, a LOT more steel to make it go any real distance.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

OTOH, needing this much steel creates demand, which means market will try to fill it in.
8bitBob said:
10 hours of discussion based on incomplete information which does not reflect what we know now. It's a bandwagon on early information. The length of discussion doesn't matter if it doesn't address new information.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

What new information was given?
The confirmation that only small outdated shops would be closed. That...is not a big change?
The big reasons behind not going for it were "ew free trade what about local businesses" and "how about we do not piss of Urbanites when we have a revolutionary wave inbound?.

While WoAN mostly addressed the first one (with a couple of minor caveats about whether letting them die so easily is the best of ideas), the last one is still as valid as ever.
 
8bitBob said:
So if I understand you right, Prototype Rail is going to get us a new action that can be taken which increases our IC cap? Can we get a preview for it?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Probably something along the lines of

Build Railroad: -1 IC, +1 Max IC [0/3 Uses] (Also contributes towards Transport Infrastructure for Kyberi)

Also, for the nasty surprise, the Vortuga and Nohon are coordinating to get you to split your forces between Kyberi and Khemetri. Looking over things, your Spymaster is pretty sure that this is a classic example of mission creep and trying to tie too many pre-existing conspiracies together. In any case, the revolts appear timed to start with Hespranxer troops leaving their barracks to sneak over to threaten the Khemetri, using Vortugan aid for hopping across the Saffron Sea. While they acknowledge that the Khemetri are no pushovers and you will likely have their back, they figure that the logistical supply lines will favour them enough that they can pull off a short victorious war to bolster flagging national pride by "beating up" the premier land power either directly or by proxy. The Vortuga are acting as go betweens to coordinate with the Nohon to also start shit on the other side of the world, distracting you overall. No matter your choice, you will have knowledge of all of this and can brace accordingly. The Ochruhr appear to have caught wind of this and added their own contributions (AKA the Hespranxer will suddenly have a mass uprising while their troops are away, with "sympathetic" uprisings happening simultaneously in their true targets).

The Wyrmyn coordinator figured out that a bunch of the information could have only come through official diplomatic channels and realized that at the very least the Ochruhr king had to know that all of this was happening, and then he pieced together that several of the revolts had absolutely no hope if the Ochruhr knew about them ahead of time and were thus being set up to be crushed.
 
[X] [Kielmyr] 0 PW - Reject offer (Kielmyr disappointed)
[X] [Kielmyr] 0 PW - A slight reworking of tariffs may be in order (-1 Temp SoL, +1 Temp IC, Kielmyr mildly accepting)
[X] [Trains] 0 PW - Buy what is available (-1 Temp SoL, Prototype Railroad [Open] and boosted)
[X] [Sheep] 2 PW - Aid shall be theirs (Sending Technical Advisors, -1 IC, Medium Investment in Black Sheep, Black Sheep very pleased)
[X] [Officers] +1 PW - Yes (Black Sheep pleased)
[X] [Conspiracy] 0 PW - Send out missives as quickly as possible about the potential for a mass uprising
 
Can the develope trains action trickle research or add to focused research on the next rail tech as we gain practical experience?

Also, we should send armies NOW. Two to Khentri, four straight East. Start sending supplies NOW staggered so our troops have steady food and powder coming in.
 
Last edited:
Academia Nut said:
Probably something along the lines of

Build Railroad: -1 IC, +1 Max IC [0/3 Uses] (Also contributes towards Transport Infrastructure for Kyberi)

Also, for the nasty surprise, the Vortuga and Nohon are coordinating to get you to split your forces between Kyberi and Khemetri. Looking over things, your Spymaster is pretty sure that this is a classic example of mission creep and trying to tie too many pre-existing conspiracies together. In any case, the revolts appear timed to start with Hespranxer troops leaving their barracks to sneak over to threaten the Khemetri, using Vortugan aid for hopping across the Saffron Sea. While they acknowledge that the Khemetri are no pushovers and you will likely have their back, they figure that the logistical supply lines will favour them enough that they can pull off a short victorious war to bolster flagging national pride by "beating up" the premier land power either directly or by proxy. The Vortuga are acting as go betweens to coordinate with the Nohon to also start shit on the other side of the world, distracting you overall. No matter your choice, you will have knowledge of all of this and can brace accordingly. The Ochruhr appear to have caught wind of this and added their own contributions (AKA the Hespranxer will suddenly have a mass uprising while their troops are away, with "sympathetic" uprisings happening simultaneously in their true targets).
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Do we have the ability to warn the Khemetri in advance/station enough battleships to make sure the plan to hop across the sea fails miserably?
 
[X] [Kielmyr] 0 PW - A slight reworking of tariffs may be in order (-1 Temp SoL, +1 Temp IC, Kielmyr mildly accepting)
[X] [Trains] 0 PW - Buy what is available (-1 Temp SoL, Prototype Railroad [Open] and boosted)
[X] [Sheep] 2 PW - Aid shall be theirs (Sending Technical Advisors, -1 IC, Medium Investment in Black Sheep, Black Sheep very pleased)
[X] [Officers] +1 PW - Yes (Black Sheep pleased)
[X] [Conspiracy] 1 PW - Send out a warning while publicly decrying the Ochruhr for their involvement (-1 Trust, potential war with Ochruhr, ???)
 
Academia Nut said:
Probably something along the lines of

Build Railroad: -1 IC, +1 Max IC [0/3 Uses] (Also contributes towards Transport Infrastructure for Kyberi)

Also, for the nasty surprise, the Vortuga and Nohon are coordinating to get you to split your forces between Kyberi and Khemetri. Looking over things, your Spymaster is pretty sure that this is a classic example of mission creep and trying to tie too many pre-existing conspiracies together. In any case, the revolts appear timed to start with Hespranxer troops leaving their barracks to sneak over to threaten the Khemetri, using Vortugan aid for hopping across the Saffron Sea. While they acknowledge that the Khemetri are no pushovers and you will likely have their back, they figure that the logistical supply lines will favour them enough that they can pull off a short victorious war to bolster flagging national pride by "beating up" the premier land power either directly or by proxy. The Vortuga are acting as go betweens to coordinate with the Nohon to also start shit on the other side of the world, distracting you overall. No matter your choice, you will have knowledge of all of this and can brace accordingly. The Ochruhr appear to have caught wind of this and added their own contributions (AKA the Hespranxer will suddenly have a mass uprising while their troops are away, with "sympathetic" uprisings happening simultaneously in their true targets).

The Wyrmyn coordinator figured out that a bunch of the information could have only come through official diplomatic channels and realized that at the very least the Ochruhr king had to know that all of this was happening, and then he pieced together that several of the revolts had absolutely no hope if the Ochruhr knew about them ahead of time and were thus being set up to be crushed.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

.....blahhhhh.
There was a reason I wanted to go mediate between Hespranxer and Khem turn before previous.
Bloody idiots.
What to dooo.....can we secure the military access from Tortun Duchies enough to go wreck Hespranxer face in their homeland, I wonder.


Will Hespranxer stop the attack on Khemetri if the revolt happens?
If not, hrm.
This is a conundrum and a half. Vortuga/Nohon block alone is a massive threat to our navies and Kyberi, Hespranxer add a decent land opponent, although with Army 8 and Europe being rather decently developed we can shank them if we can get to their lands.
But Hex fleet + Vortuga fleet + Nohonese fleet basically means we are screwed on the water. Huh.
 
Academia Nut said:
Probably something along the lines of

Build Railroad: -1 IC, +1 Max IC [0/3 Uses] (Also contributes towards Transport Infrastructure for Kyberi)

Also, for the nasty surprise, the Vortuga and Nohon are coordinating to get you to split your forces between Kyberi and Khemetri. Looking over things, your Spymaster is pretty sure that this is a classic example of mission creep and trying to tie too many pre-existing conspiracies together. In any case, the revolts appear timed to start with Hespranxer troops leaving their barracks to sneak over to threaten the Khemetri, using Vortugan aid for hopping across the Saffron Sea. While they acknowledge that the Khemetri are no pushovers and you will likely have their back, they figure that the logistical supply lines will favour them enough that they can pull off a short victorious war to bolster flagging national pride by "beating up" the premier land power either directly or by proxy. The Vortuga are acting as go betweens to coordinate with the Nohon to also start shit on the other side of the world, distracting you overall. No matter your choice, you will have knowledge of all of this and can brace accordingly. The Ochruhr appear to have caught wind of this and added their own contributions (AKA the Hespranxer will suddenly have a mass uprising while their troops are away, with "sympathetic" uprisings happening simultaneously in their true targets).

The Wyrmyn coordinator figured out that a bunch of the information could have only come through official diplomatic channels and realized that at the very least the Ochruhr king had to know that all of this was happening, and then he pieced together that several of the revolts had absolutely no hope if the Ochruhr knew about them ahead of time and were thus being set up to be crushed.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Holy shit, we hit the diplomatic and strategic jackpot here. We can simultaneously fuck over the Och, Nohon and Vortuga, all with one action.

Oh, and Khem will love us more, the Hes will be pissed at Och and Vortuga, and we won't be distracted when the Nohon come swinging.
 
ctulhuslp said:
OTOH, needing this much steel creates demand, which means market will try to fill it in.


What new information was given?
The confirmation that only small outdated shops would be closed. That...is not a big change?
The big reasons behind not going for it were "ew free trade what about local businesses" and "how about we do not piss of Urbanites when we have a revolutionary wave inbound?.

While WoAN mostly addressed the first one (with a couple of minor caveats about whether letting them die so easily is the best of ideas), the last one is still as valid as ever.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The fact that people were saying that we were killing off small time innovators was shown to be categorically false is a huge deal. While pissing off the urbanites is bad, lowering our Temp SoL via the lesser option has the same effect on our happiness. Same amount of discontent, if perhaps a bit more diffuse narratively. By itself, that is not enough reason to turn down the offer without further discussion.

Speaking of new information...
Academia Nut said:
Probably something along the lines of

Build Railroad: -1 IC, +1 Max IC [0/3 Uses] (Also contributes towards Transport Infrastructure for Kyberi)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Oh God, people, please do not turn this down. It contributes towards Kyberi and raises our max IC. This is so absurdly worth it's not even funny.
 
Academia Nut said:
Build Railroad: -1 IC, +1 Max IC [0/3 Uses] (Also contributes towards Transport Infrastructure for Kyberi)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

That "contributes towards Transport infrastructure" makes railroad actions SO GOOD. Ironically it's probably easier for us to spend 1 Permanent IC than 3 Temp IC, especially since our Develop Industry action got buffed. We could fairly easily max this out in a turn or two.
 
[X] [Kielmyr] 0 PW - A slight reworking of tariffs may be in order (-1 Temp SoL, +1 Temp IC, Kielmyr mildly accepting)
[X] [Trains] 0 PW - Buy what is available (-1 Temp SoL, Prototype Railroad [Open] and boosted)
[X] [Sheep] 2 PW - Aid shall be theirs (Sending Technical Advisors, -1 IC, Medium Investment in Black Sheep, Black Sheep very pleased)
[X] [Officers] +1 PW - Yes (Black Sheep pleased)
[X] [Conspiracy] 1 PW - Send out a warning while publicly decrying the Ochruhr for their involvement (-1 Trust, potential war with Ochruhr, ???)
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top