I'm willing to compromise by going with the middle path on steel, but I think it'd be a good idea to allow the Sketch to build our railroads directly. While it is a good long-term goal to reverse engineer the machinery, we need to build railroads ASAP to promote development of Kyberia and in case of war with the Nohon. Besides, in the worst case we can nationalize those railroads later if absolutely necessary, though I'd like to avoid that.
 
I'm willing to compromise by going with the middle path on steel, but I think it'd be a good idea to allow the Sketch to build our railroads directly. While it is a good long-term goal to reverse engineer the machinery, we need to build railroads ASAP to promote development of Kyberia and in case of war with the Nohon. Besides, in the worst case we can nationalize those railroads later if absolutely necessary, though I'd like to avoid that.

Current Generation Railways can't go in Kyberia. They're not good enough.

Besides, it'd be far more profitable to put them in the core, so that's where the Sketch'll put them.
 
This eight hour moratorium feels way too much. A two or three hour moratorium would have been better IMO.

Eh. I am in love with 8-hour one (even if by now it's ~10 hour it has lasted). We have managed to discuss every single concern and figure out our position in calm, civilized manner, without rush to voice opinions and convince enough people before soft-deadline of "insurmountable vote advantage" strikes.
 
Current Generation Railways can't go in Kyberia. They're not good enough.

Besides, it'd be far more profitable to put them in the core, so that's where the Sketch'll put them.

I imagine Sheep investment will mean some eventual railroads to and from Salt Sea btw. So we may have this as a nice little shortcut if we invest enough, if not now then soon-ish.

Silk Road shall rise again.
 
I still want to do full balls to the walls aid for the Black Sheep. Yes, it will hurt, but we will survive. Then, we have them by the balls.

Even IF we don't use that influence directly their stability is now contingent on ours. Their ecconomy will be backing ours if we go to a war footing and call up the levi.

It is part of our cultural heritage to give even when it hurts. During the first famine we gave bread when we already starved. We did so for strangers. Wencan do THIS for the Blacksheep who where once and still are to a degree OF The People.
 
Yes.
And besides, steel, as well as global infrastructure, are strategic assets, not something a foreign nation should control, especially in 19th century.

Yeah, I mean, there is economy, there is politics; but there is also military strategy and logistics. Transports of steel from Kielmyr would be easy to cut off during any big Syffryn war.

Again, I'm IRL very firmly into pro-capitalism, much more than 95% of people here (I'm basically neoliberal right-libertarian); so this is very ironic, but I believe that now we must be careful. There are more nuances to politics than economic theory.
 
I imagine Sheep investment will mean some eventual railroads to and from Salt Sea btw. So we may have this as a nice little shortcut if we invest enough, if not now then soon-ish.

Silk Road shall rise again.

Probably.
We are literally the one nation in the world right now who would profit most from the railroads, another reason I want them mostly to be domestically developed, we have vast and diverse biotopes to adapt them to.
 
@Cornuthaum, my opinion on the steel trade option differs


- Fully Rework
Mechanically
: Temporary reduction of our industry; temporary gains in money(SoL) and production assets (TIC). Ally pleased, laissez-faire liberals pleased. Urbanites displeased.
Narratively: Collapses the smaller steel- and iron-producing companies that are starting up in the crib. Creates discontent amongst the factory workers (= the urbanites) because their factories close. We gain access to better quality steel for a decade.

Why we need this:
It immediately gives us the benefit of large supplies of high quality steel without the chemistry research. We need the better steel for many things including railroads, the quicker we get it the better. Currently we import better steel due to our inability to produce it, but at major costs and so in only small amounts.
Our Crown Corporations will continue to produce massive amounts of cheap (due to much less transport costs and gov ownership) lower quality steel. Once we have caught up technologically, our domestic steel industry will outcompete other nations in our own market.
The Sketch are slowly driving the Kielmyr out of the steel trade, this will prevent that. We are already buying much from the Sketch, we do not want to start relying on them for steel too.

While our steel industry will contract in the short term, the rest of our economy will be improved significantly. The net employment and economic growth will be much greater with this choice.


Why not vote for this:
It is the most costly option, -1 IC and -1 PW
 
Yes.
And besides, steel, as well as global infrastructure, are strategic assets, not something a foreign nation should control, especially in 19th century.
I'm fine if we end up a net importer of steel. It's just that we do need our own industry that can expand production in a crisis and that can spur materials science research.
 
I'm gonna be really damn sad if we turn down the Kielmyr and Sketch offers.

The update specifically says our larger corporations will profit, so I have no idea why people seem to think this will destroy native steel production.

The IC is a perfectly reasonable tradeoff. With pleasing the Liberals, we'll gain +3 Temp IC. That's enough to hit max IC easily. Best case scenario, one of the factions puts forth a bill to do it for us, but we can easily manage it during the main turn if not.

The Sketch vote also seems like a no brainer to me too. Yes, it will tie us closer to the Sketch, but our need to develop trains outweighs that concern. We use the Sketch tech base to get things started while continuing native development.


@Academia Nut If we take the 1 PW Sketch option, will it increase our IC cap as if we had researched the tech ourselves?
 
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What if there will be additional "-" to happ from the Syffryn mess? Then displeasing urbanities could be dangerous.

I always try to be VERY careful in regards to happ.
Last time the revolutions came up we got the option of "go to war or eat happiness loss from angry faction" effectively.

I still want to do full balls to the walls aid for the Black Sheep. Yes, it will hurt, but we will survive. Then, we have them by the balls.

Even IF we don't use that influence directly their stability is now contingent on ours. Their ecconomy will be backing ours if we go to a war footing and call up the levi.

It is part of our cultural heritage to give even when it hurts. During the first famine we gave bread when we already starved. We did so for strangers. Wencan do THIS for the Blacksheep who where once and still are to a degree OF The People.
Well it does strongly incentivize them to keep us healthy. Which might extend to supporting our Kyberia efforts since they do have a small sea to work with there.
The update specifically says our larger corporations will profit, so I have no idea why people seem to think this will destroy native steel production.
The update specifically says our larger corporations, like the cannon manufacturers(who had converted to corporations long ago), will profit.
Our smaller corporations, like the iron foundries(who had been forcibly converted more recently), will collapse.

One major reason for our iron production being behind on quality is that we just broke the quality control a few years ago when we dismantled the guilds by force. Not due to ingrained bad practices, but due to being too busy trying to stay afloat to innovate.

The Sketch vote also seems like a no brainer to me too. Yes, it will tie us closer to the Sketch, but our need to develop trains outweighs that concern. We use the Sketch tech base to get things started while continuing native development.

It means the Sketch can shut down our transportation backbone when its important. They can simply pull out and we're left with engines and no engineers to run them with. Which means that any action which may risk a Sketch pullout would be strongly opposed by our factions.

Which is exactly what we're doing to Black Sheep with the 1 IC option. Shame their banks run on Gulmaryn Clerks.
 
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See, this is why I want a fourth option to stick a crown corp in the middle to add a layer of control. Give them special dipensation to export iron ore and import steel without tarif. Give them a large initial crown investment to get started.

Give them two mandates. First, price the imported steel such that it does NOT strangle out smaller steel mills while allowing the market a much deeper access to and quality of steel.

Second, to sell iron ore for stock. They need iron ore? We will sell it to them for zero upfront cost. They pay the crown corp with a non-controlling share of their stock and now forever have access to tarif free iron ore.

The price of steel overall drops and the crown corp can drop it further or cap any rise due to demand spike as desired by the crown.

And more importantly we get to send our investors to get their elbows deep inside their steel smelting and return with their secrets.
 
My reading of the steel bit was that small steel producing outfits die off but the people that use a lot of high quality steel will be ecstatic. Which is great from the PoV that these products become cheaper. Which includes steam engines.

The issue here is that we want a domestic high quality steel industry. So I'm against full opening, but a partial opening still kills off the weakling companies with bad business practices while still allowing cheaper steel into our economy.

Besides, if the steelworks can't survive this level of competition, they deserve to die. They are sitting literally on top of huge reserves of fuel and ore in a time when transportation costs were a killer.
 
Give them two mandates. First, price the imported steel such that it does NOT strangle out smaller steel mills while allowing the market a much deeper access to and quality of steel.
Unfortunately this is the status quo or the tariffs outcome.

To do what you're suggesting requires more advanced economic thought, I think the Sketch already have idea though, it's how they make their Kus operations work.
 
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