On the topic of governance, basically any form of government, from Monarchy to Democracy, can be improved by a majority educated populace.

Saying "more education will make x government type better" is an obvious thing, because more education makes basically everything better.

Most people do not want to have an absolute monarchy, and most people also (hopefully) don't want to have some sort of direct democracy.

I think we can all come to a compromise of a representative republic or constitutional monarchy, at least until we hit the space age.

By then, we might get some sort of God King super psyker, so all bets are off. :V
 
I personally am hoping for less of a psyker based magic system as I feel everyone does that.

Bring back the rituals and spellbooks. Have some curses, blessings, and strange artifacts. Get wizards IN SPACE!
 
No magic, only cold, hard SCIENCE!

"Magic" is only a word. Everything that can be shown in reproducible experiments is scientific from definition. "Magical" effects of weird words + stick-waving included.



Scientific method is, well, a method. Laws of universe could be different than ours, but scientific procedures needed to properly describe them are valid regardless.
 
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"Magic" is only a word. Everything that can be shown in reproducible experiments is scientific from definition. "Magical" effects of weird words + stick-waving included.
Which is the exact kind of magic I would like to see! >:3

Nonreproducible, gimmicky, inexplicablility!

Weirdness that refuses to be defined and must be courted to comply! Objects with random innate traits unconnected to physical form but to the concept they represent! Spells that only work in moonlight when masked by the Eight-eyed Crow!

Magic~
 
Which is the exact kind of magic I would like to see! >:3

Nonreproducible, gimmicky, inexplicablility!

Weirdness that refuses to be defined and must be courted to comply! Objects with random innate traits unconnected to physical form but to the concept they represent! Spells that only work in moonlight when masked by the Eight-eyed Crow!

Magic~
The whole reason Crow created the mysteries of the world was for us to solve them!

The idea of anything being forever unknown is anathema to the teachings of Crow, an have been anathema from the very beginning!
 
Spells that only work in moonlight

This sounds pretty reproducible.

must be courted to comply!

Again, sounds like provable hypothesis.

Objects with random innate traits unconnected to physical form but to the concept they represent!

You can easily have that inside of computer simulation, as the whole material word is illusion in such case, and there may be programmed "cheats".

Still pretty reproducible and understandable by scientific method.
 
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The whole reason Crow created the mysteries of the world was for us to solve them!

The idea of anything being forever unknown is anathema to the teachings of Crow, an have been anathema from the very beginning!
Oh it all makes "sense", no doubt about that, but not because of crooked angles and patterned numbers. There is a sense of fairness in costs and etiquette.

The magic is fickle and alive, not a thing of iron.
This sounds pretty reproducible.
Not when Moonlight can change from being actual moonlight, under a painting of a moon, or whatever decides to make sense the most.
Again, sounds like provable hypothesis.
Not if the being is fickle and can work until it decides not to work. >3>

Point is, to have a magic that is separate from the absolute laws and rules that science seeks to create.
 
Oh it all makes "sense", no doubt about that, but not because of crooked angles and patterned numbers. There is a sense of fairness in costs and etiquette.

The magic is fickle and alive, not a thing of iron.

if it has rules humans would figure them out then seek to game them. define "fair" define "sense" then abuse them. It's what lest us fly and forge and thrive. on the macro scale, the human response to wonders like that is to take them apart and make tools. It's why we have advanced metallurgy instead of shitty tools with a few magical thunderbolt iron swords drifting around.

magic would have to be actively adapting and working at it to avoid being analyzed like that. Given the core of our faith is that the world can be understood and that doing so is right I think a fantastical element that was resistant to being understood would not fit.
 
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The Ymaryn in WWII timeline replacing Russia:

Ymaryn: "The Tortuns went absolutely crazy in the timeline. AIEEE!"
British: "Who the fuck are you? And what happened to my Iraq???"
Ymaryn: "Is that you Sketch? And why the fuck are the Tortuns attacking me?"
British: "Tortun who?"
Germany: "OMG, the Russian horde! AHHHHH!"
 
Oh it all makes "sense", no doubt about that, but not because of crooked angles and patterned numbers. There is a sense of fairness in costs and etiquette.

The magic is fickle and alive, not a thing of iron.

Not when Moonlight can change from being actual moonlight, under a painting of a moon, or whatever decides to make sense the most.

Not if the being is fickle and can work until it decides not to work. >3>

Point is, to have a magic that is separate from the absolute laws and rules that science seeks to create.
As long as there are some expected outputs out of a set inputs, scientific method can be used to analyze it. Perhaps not to a complete accuracy, but nevertheless.
 
Other: The Magic of Thinking Stone
Science seeks not to create order but to discover it. We describe the fundamental building blocks of existence using numbers that have no physical representation, that ultimately can only have existence within the mind. From these numbers we know that what our senses can take in is only a tiny mundanity of what the universe truly is. We use probability rather than individual certainty to make stone think with lightning caught in a bottle, and with it's thoughts we coordinate tangible but non physical fields that can produce the same crushing might of the heart of a star.

There is magic in the world, we have just been so arrogant that when we realised it followed no human laws or mores we were disappointed and called it something else.
 
"Science" can work on probabilities and deal with psychology.
Still missing the point of having magic work outside said framework, which means that would not work either.
if it has rules humans would figure them out then seek to game them. define "fair" define "sense" then abuse them. It's what lest us fly and forge and thrive. on the macro scale, the human response to wonders like that is to take them apart and make tools. It's why we have advanced metallurgy instead of shitty tools with a few magical thunderbolt iron swords drifting around.

magic would have to be actively adapting and working at it to avoid being analyzed like that. Given the core of our faith is that the world can be understood and that doing so is right I think a fantastical element that was resistant to being understood would not fit.
Which is my point. Magic that is alive, that can be argued with and asked
As long as there are some expected outputs out of a set inputs, scientific method can be used to analyze it. Perhaps not to a complete accuracy, but nevertheless.
Not if is not reproducible, ie works with jake, but not with jim, and yes with jane with a wierd hat.
Science seeks not to create order but to discover it.
Which misses the point of what I said. :V

I did not mean science is literally creating the absolute rules of the universe, it is about writing them down.

Honestly, I do not know why you guys are all up in a tizzy and try and shut down fantasies. I state a desire to see nonsensical magic in a fictional world and y'all like 'lol magic ain't real, get a real job'
 
Honestly, I do not know why you guys are all up in a tizzy and try and shut down fantasies. I state a desire to see nonsensical magic in a fictional world and y'all like 'lol magic ain't real, get a real job'

It's actually because truly nonsensical magic is incredibly unsatisfying and no one actually uses it; there is always at least some degree of order. This is because magic appears in stories and stories themselves have order. This is where Sanderson's First Law comes in about the ability to solve problems with magic corresponding to the reader's understanding of how it works: if the magic can "do anything" it undercuts tension and makes a story less satisfying. Now, inexplicable magic can create problems that require solving that is okay, because it increases tension.

Where this comes in within the context of the quest is that the characters have the tools to explore their world and thus can uncover more about magic. Even if the result is "Tools inadequate, underlying structure unknown" that is in of itself establishing a rule "X does Y and Z occasionally for no reason we understand, so be prepared to just randomly have Y and Z happen, and possibly I dunno, W maybe?" It's a loose rule, but you understand it and the potential consequence. If there is no understanding then it is "There are no rules, anything can happen at any time" and then there is nothing to talk about.

And like, again to remind you, we live our lives in a completely insane, nonsensical way from the viewpoint of our ancestors, but once we explain the logic behind why we get up according to a clock instead of according to the sun or when we are no longer sleepy and travel in contraptions of metal and explosions to pillars of steel and concrete and glass to sit in little boxes and click on little bits of material that have no real analogs to what they know so that we can make symbols appear and disappear on a screen so that we can have other symbols change elsewhere in the world, allowing us to simply pick up the necessities of life from a stranger we may only know in passing. Like, trying to describe modern living to a hunter-gatherer using only terms within their lexicon would be an exercise in absurdity and insanity, but you can do it because all the things we do follow underlying patterns and order that are not immediately obvious from the surface.

So basically, most 'absurd' magic is just stuff where the rules behind it is beyond the observer, and insisting that it remain that way in a game where the players have the agency to explore it is a bit disingenuous and unfair to them. Now, as this game has demonstrated, I can simply tell you "Your studies return nothing this time" and most people will be cool with that, but a society that doesn't figure out the workings of its environment on even an empirical level quickly vanishes, so it would pretty quickly stop being 'magic' and start being 'mundane'.

(Insert rant on Black Clover's incredible bad world building and how the main character is essentially the blind kid with no legs being essentially bullied by everyone around him because magic isn't something special to them, it is literally an expected part of their bodies like an arm or eyes)
(Insert second rant about wanting to strangle everyone involved in the main character's realization because I had to sit through the obligatory first episode in my anime club and my ears are still ringing)
 
It's actually because truly nonsensical magic is incredibly unsatisfying and no one actually uses it; there is always at least some degree of order. This is because magic appears in stories and stories themselves have order. This is where Sanderson's First Law comes in about the ability to solve problems with magic corresponding to the reader's understanding of how it works: if the magic can "do anything" it undercuts tension and makes a story less satisfying. Now, inexplicable magic can create problems that require solving that is okay, because it increases tension.

Where this comes in within the context of the quest is that the characters have the tools to explore their world and thus can uncover more about magic. Even if the result is "Tools inadequate, underlying structure unknown" that is in of itself establishing a rule "X does Y and Z occasionally for no reason we understand, so be prepared to just randomly have Y and Z happen, and possibly I dunno, W maybe?" It's a loose rule, but you understand it and the potential consequence. If there is no understanding then it is "There are no rules, anything can happen at any time" and then there is nothing to talk about.

And like, again to remind you, we live our lives in a completely insane, nonsensical way from the viewpoint of our ancestors, but once we explain the logic behind why we get up according to a clock instead of according to the sun or when we are no longer sleepy and travel in contraptions of metal and explosions to pillars of steel and concrete and glass to sit in little boxes and click on little bits of material that have no real analogs to what they know so that we can make symbols appear and disappear on a screen so that we can have other symbols change elsewhere in the world, allowing us to simply pick up the necessities of life from a stranger we may only know in passing. Like, trying to describe modern living to a hunter-gatherer using only terms within their lexicon would be an exercise in absurdity and insanity, but you can do it because all the things we do follow underlying patterns and order that are not immediately obvious from the surface.

So basically, most 'absurd' magic is just stuff where the rules behind it is beyond the observer, and insisting that it remain that way in a game where the players have the agency to explore it is a bit disingenuous and unfair to them. Now, as this game has demonstrated, I can simply tell you "Your studies return nothing this time" and most people will be cool with that, but a society that doesn't figure out the workings of its environment on even an empirical level quickly vanishes, so it would pretty quickly stop being 'magic' and start being 'mundane'.

(Insert rant on Black Clover's incredible bad world building and how the main character is essentially the blind kid with no legs being essentially bullied by everyone around him because magic isn't something special to them, it is literally an expected part of their bodies like an arm or eyes)
(Insert second rant about wanting to strangle everyone involved in the main character's realization because I had to sit through the obligatory first episode in my anime club and my ears are still ringing)
...Does that mean the map is updated? :V

Edit: As a more serious response, let me see if I can put what I mean by nonsensical magic a little more clearly.

My Hero Academia, except with magic. Everyone can do magic, except everyone does magic in a different way. They can even create similar effects using said magic, but the way to get there is different and not necessarily consistent

The universe and its rules still exist, you can still lift up a pebble with your hand, but one person can do it with a flick of a wand and a magic word, another uses no wand but a longer chant. Someone else needs a ritual and sacrifice. No reason, be it blood, geography or beliefs, people just do it differently.

Trying to understand and making sense of things still work, but the rules are not universal and sometimes even contradictory to those others follow or evolve into different rules with time or specific events.

Science is about finding universally applied rules. X+Y=Z. Always. If it does not, it is because you use x rather than X or there is a hidden W you were not aware of.

What I mean by Nonsensical Magic is my X works, but not that of Shuri, Ed has to paint his X red first to make it work etc. There is no universal or consistency, but there is a way.
 
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