Paths of Civilization II: Paths of Industrialization

[ctulhuslp]

Okay, folks. Before anything, ask yourself one question:


Did Napoleonic Wars end up in partition of France?

Seeing as a) they did not; b) France ended up a good ally for Russia so these things are not set in stone, I say:

[X] [Peace] 0 PW - Take the Wyrmyn territories you have conquered and let everyone else figure things out (-2 Temp Trust, gain Wyrmyn lands, may not count as avenging Humiliating Loss)
[X] [Guilds] 4 PW Invested - Begin a new constitutional convention to address these issues (1819 is a constitutional turn)

[X] [Research]Academic Freedom (0/???) [Social]

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

[X] [Peace] 0 PW - Take the Wyrmyn territories you have conquered and let everyone else figure things out (-2 Temp Trust, gain Wyrmyn lands, may not count as avenging Humiliating Loss)
[X] [Guilds] 4 PW Invested - Begin a new constitutional convention to address these issues (1819 is a constitutional turn)

 

[Prince Kyros]

[X] [Peace] 2 PW - Negotiate with the rest of the Coalition for the Dissolution of Tortun (Gain Wyrmyn lands, remove Humiliating Loss, Tortun Republic broken up into six Constitutional Grand Duchies, various powers gain small amounts of Tortun land, Ochruhr utterly humiliated by all powers)
[X] [Guilds] 1 PW - Allow the dissolution but do not address the larger issue of the guilds (-1 Temp Happiness, +1 Temp Consciousness, remove Recent Constitutional Changes status)
[X] [Research] Modern Nationalism (0/???) [Social]

 

[Umi-san]

Question, which direction do we want to take our third Academy in? Of the four options we have seen (Social, Military, Industrial, Science) we have two of Social and Military. While having one of each is nice, specializing in Social or Military would not necessarily be a bad thing.

Click to shrink...

I personally want science, but after that I'm fine with more social for the sake of socialism

 

[HanEmpire]

If we don't take Constitutional Reform right now, when can we take the option again? Will it come up as a Turn action?

 

[ctulhuslp]

their current charters were limiting them in what they could and could not do, so they were requesting the dissolution of their charters and the right to reform as a series of crown corporations.

Click to shrink...

Also, early state capitalism get? Sounds useful, we can do a China with national corporations.

 

[Frankite316]

we should grant wymr automy before the next war starts.

 

[Academia Nut]

If we don't take Constitutional Reform right now, when can we take the option again? Will it come up as a Turn action?

Click to shrink...

Yes, with the blocking status removed (unless you let the guilds win in this instance for some reason) you can hold a new one next turn.

 

[agumentic]

I see, I see. Well, that's what you get when you fight against an ideologically driven genius.

I propose that we start diplomancing and empowering one of the duchies ASAP, and then use them to stop the uniting Tortun and Ochrurh attempts to restore the empire - or, at least, have a good friend in the new Germany.

 

[random_npc]

so the way I see it, is crushing the guilds this turn worth more or less than letting Germany come back almost right away? Personally, I think it depends on if we think we can diplomance Tortun into a non-aggression treaty.

 

[Manget]

[X] [Peace] 2 PW - Negotiate with the rest of the Coalition for the Dissolution of Tortun (Gain Wyrmyn lands, remove Humiliating Loss, Tortun Republic broken up into six Constitutional Grand Duchies, various powers gain small amounts of Tortun land, Ochruhr utterly humiliated by all powers)
[X] [Guilds] 1 PW - Allow the dissolution but do not address the larger issue of the guilds (-1 Temp Happiness, +1 Temp Consciousness, remove Recent Constitutional Changes status)
[X] [Research] Modern Nationalism (0/???) [Social]

 

[ctulhuslp]

so the way I see it, is crushing the guilds this turn worth more or less than letting Germany come back almost right away? Personally, I think it depends on if we think we can diplomance Tortun into a non-aggression treaty.

Click to shrink...

Yet again, there is no problem at all with letting Germany come back as long as they are not our enemies; and seeing as France did not rival entirety of Europe after defeat in Napoleonic Wars, I'd say there is none here either.

Well, as long as we do not take any sliver of ethnically Tortun lands.

 

[SeptimusMagisto]

so the way I see it, is crushing the guilds this turn worth more or less than letting Germany come back almost right away? Personally, I think it depends on if we think we can diplomance Tortun into a non-aggression treaty.

Click to shrink...

Honestly, I would actively prefer to take out a few guilds right now and establish a precedent. That way our hand will be stronger in the future. Trying to break the guilds in one blow sounds rather painful.

 

[Yorick's Skull]

[X] [Peace] 0 PW - Take the Wyrmyn territories you have conquered and let everyone else figure things out (-2 Temp Trust, gain Wyrmyn lands, may not count as avenging Humiliating Loss)
[X] [Guilds] 4 PW Invested - Begin a new constitutional convention to address these issues (1819 is a constitutional turn)
[X] [Research] Modern Nationalism (0/???) [Social]

I bet on the crit?
I feel this is far less practical, but it does act on our long-ish term needs as soon as available.
We would need significant diplo+espionage ASAP though.

 

[Frankite316]

I wonder if we make a three way trade between us, kielmyr, and the grand duchy bordering keilmyr.
we trade some of wymr to kielmyr the grand duchy get's tortun land from kielmyr, and we get a wad of cash.

 

[Tetsurou]

[X] [Peace] 0 PW - Take the Wyrmyn territories you have conquered and let everyone else figure things out (-2 Temp Trust, gain Wyrmyn lands, may not count as avenging Humiliating Loss)
[X] [Guilds] 4 PW Invested - Begin a new constitutional convention to address these issues (1819 is a constitutional turn)
[X] [Research] Modern Nationalism (0/???) [Social]

 

[Redium]

[X] [Peace] 0 PW - Take the Wyrmyn territories you have conquered and let everyone else figure things out (-2 Temp Trust, gain Wyrmyn lands, may not count as avenging Humiliating Loss)
[X] [Guilds] 4 PW Invested - Begin a new constitutional convention to address these issues (1819 is a constitutional turn)
[X] [Research] Modern Nationalism (0/???) [Social]

 

[DocMatoi]

[X] [Peace] 0 PW - Take the Wyrmyn territories you have conquered and let everyone else figure things out (-2 Temp Trust, gain Wyrmyn lands, may not count as avenging Humiliating Loss)
[X] [Guilds] 4 PW Invested - Begin a new constitutional convention to address these issues (1819 is a constitutional turn)
[X] [Research] Modern Nationalism (0/???) [Social]

 

[Chargone]

[X] [Peace] 2 PW - Negotiate with the rest of the Coalition for the Dissolution of Tortun (Gain Wyrmyn lands, remove Humiliating Loss, Tortun Republic broken up into six Constitutional Grand Duchies, various powers gain small amounts of Tortun land, Ochruhr utterly humiliated by all powers)
[X] [Guilds] 1 PW - Allow the dissolution but do not address the larger issue of the guilds (-1 Temp Happiness, +1 Temp Consciousness, remove Recent Constitutional Changes status)
[X] [Research] Modern Nationalism (0/???) [Social]

 

[sidestory]

[] [Guilds] 1 PW - Allow the dissolution but do not address the larger issue of the guilds (-1 Temp Happiness, +1 Temp Consciousness, remove Recent Constitutional Changes status)
[] [Guilds] 4 PW Invested - Begin a new constitutional convention to address these issues (1819 is a constitutional turn)

Click to shrink...

@Academia Nut
A quick question, which of these two leads to the guilds being turned into crown coperations?

[] [Research] Modern Nationalism (0/???) [Social]

Click to shrink...

Also for those who vote for Modern Nationalism, I would just like to point out that while it might be good for countries with a singular nationality it is quite bad on those with multiply nationalities (a.k.a. Gylruv, Wyrmyn and Ymaryn) like ours

Adhoc vote count started by sidestory on Mar 16, 2018 at 1:40 AM, finished with 74 posts and 40 votes.

• ---

  25 people have voted

  [X] [Peace] 2 PW - Negotiate with the rest of the Coalition for the Dissolution of Tortun (Gain Wyrmyn lands, remove Humiliating Loss, Tortun Republic broken up into six Constitutional Grand Duchies, various powers gain small amounts of Tortun land, Ochruhr utterly humiliated by all powers)

  • Umi-san
  • kalugin
  • hYGP
  • ETA50M
  • Korporati
  • SeptimusMagisto
  • veekie
  • Emral282
  • Frankite316
  • Kiba
  • NuclearConsensus
  • JamesShazbond
  • HanEmpire
  • Rui
  • 8bitBob
  • keenscythe
  • Prince Kyros
  • Manget
  • Chargone
  • Karugus
  • godofsmallthings
  • Varano
  • Timewinders
  • Sivantic
  • Kadark

  24 people have voted

  [X] [Guilds] 1 PW - Allow the dissolution but do not address the larger issue of the guilds (-1 Temp Happiness, +1 Temp Consciousness, remove Recent Constitutional Changes status)

  • Umi-san
  • kalugin
  • hYGP
  • ETA50M
  • Korporati
  • SeptimusMagisto
  • veekie
  • Emral282
  • Frankite316
  • Kiba
  • NuclearConsensus
  • JamesShazbond
  • HanEmpire
  • Rui
  • 8bitBob
  • keenscythe
  • Prince Kyros
  • Manget
  • Chargone
  • Karugus
  • godofsmallthings
  • Varano
  • Timewinders
  • Sivantic

  29 people have voted

  [X] [Research] Modern Nationalism (0/???) [Social]

  • Umi-san
  • kalugin
  • hYGP
  • ETA50M
  • Korporati
  • SeptimusMagisto
  • veekie
  • Emral282
  • Frankite316
  • Kiba
  • NuclearConsensus
  • JamesShazbond
  • HanEmpire
  • Rui
  • 8bitBob
  • keenscythe
  • Prince Kyros
  • Manget
  • Chargone
  • Karugus
  • godofsmallthings
  • Citino
  • zamin
  • Tetsurou
  • Redium
  • DocMatoi
  • Malevolo
  • Killer_Whale
  • Raichu1972

  14 people have voted

  [X] [Peace] 0 PW - Take the Wyrmyn territories you have conquered and let everyone else figure things out (-2 Temp Trust, gain Wyrmyn lands, may not count as avenging Humiliating Loss)

  • ctulhuslp
  • DakkaMania
  • sidestory
  • Arbit
  • Citino
  • zamin
  • Tetsurou
  • Redium
  • DocMatoi
  • Malevolo
  • Killer_Whale
  • SpeckofStardust
  • DevilsAdvocate
  • Yorick's Skull

  13 people have voted

  [X] [Guilds] 4 PW Invested - Begin a new constitutional convention to address these issues (1819 is a constitutional turn)

  • ctulhuslp
  • DakkaMania
  • sidestory
  • Arbit
  • Citino
  • zamin
  • Tetsurou
  • Redium
  • DocMatoi
  • Malevolo
  • Killer_Whale
  • SpeckofStardust
  • DevilsAdvocate

  1 people have voted

  [X] [Guilds] 4 PW Invested - Begin a new constitutional convention to address these issues (1819 is a constitutional turn)
  [X] [Research] Modern Nationalism (0/???) [Social]

  • Yorick's Skull

  5 people have voted

  [X] [Research]Academic Freedom (0/???) [Social]

  • ctulhuslp
  • DakkaMania
  • sidestory
  • Arbit
  • Sivantic

  3 people have voted

  [X] [Research] Early Modern Logic (0/20-25?) [Science]

  • Varano
  • Timewinders
  • SpeckofStardust

 

[HanEmpire]

A quick question, which of these two leads to the guilds being turned into crown coperations?

Click to shrink...

The second one. Our Constitution doesn't have provisions about Crown Corporations.

Also for those who vote for Modern Nationalism, I would just like to point out that while it might be good for countries with a singular nationality it is quite bad on those with multiply nationalities (a.k.a. Gylruv, Wyrmyn and Ymaryn) like ours

Click to shrink...

Nationalism will come without our intervention anyways. If we invent it ourselves we'll get to pick the rhetoric.
Besides, it's not like ethnic nationalism is the only type of nationalism possible.

 

[Redium]

Also for those who vote for Modern Nationalism, I would just like to point out that while it might be good for countries with a singular nationality it is quite bad on those with multiply nationalities (a.k.a. Gylruv, Wyrmyn and Ymaryn) like ours

Click to shrink...

Our cultures, Not!Russian and Ymaryn, finish integrating at the end of this turn. I suspect that this won't be as much of a flash point after that. Ymaryn is also much more high status and has thoroughly infested the monarchy at this point. The Gulryu part of our identity is not even remotely as strong as the Ymaryn.

Additionally, I think it's good to have two intertwined identities. A large part of Canada's multiculturalism comes from the dual Anglophone and Francophone identities. It's harder to be racist when the major, overriding difference is along cultural lines. It doesn't eliminate racism, but it's enough to prevent the rise of powerful and influential far-right parties.

 

[Malevolo]

[X] [Peace] 0 PW - Take the Wyrmyn territories you have conquered and let everyone else figure things out (-2 Temp Trust, gain Wyrmyn lands, may not count as avenging Humiliating Loss)
[X] [Guilds] 4 PW Invested - Begin a new constitutional convention to address these issues (1819 is a constitutional turn)
[X] [Research] Modern Nationalism (0/???) [Social]

I'm without mojo today to make a speech to the chambers... i'm sorry.

 

[Karugus]

[X] [Peace] 2 PW - Negotiate with the rest of the Coalition for the Dissolution of Tortun (Gain Wyrmyn lands, remove Humiliating Loss, Tortun Republic broken up into six Constitutional Grand Duchies, various powers gain small amounts of Tortun land, Ochruhr utterly humiliated by all powers)
[X] [Guilds] 1 PW - Allow the dissolution but do not address the larger issue of the guilds (-1 Temp Happiness, +1 Temp Consciousness, remove Recent Constitutional Changes status)
[X] [Research] Modern Nationalism (0/???) [Social]

 

[DakkaMania]

[X] [Peace] 0 PW - Take the Wyrmyn territories you have conquered and let everyone else figure things out (-2 Temp Trust, gain Wyrmyn lands, may not count as avenging Humiliating Loss)
[X] [Guilds] 4 PW Invested - Begin a new constitutional convention to address these issues (1819 is a constitutional turn)

[X] [Research]Academic Freedom (0/???) [Social]