When litterally every nation that is able does a specific thing all at roughly the same time it can be infered that there is a pretty strong incentive being applied to them to make this happen.

Imperialism seemed like a really good idea at the time.
 
Imperialism seemed like a really good idea at the time.

We know now however that it's bad, with strong evidence that it's bad in the longterm for everyone involved and yet here we are. On the cusp of Theory of Empire because of our actions.

*insert insanity meme/communism poorly implemented defense*


:V

Baddies are bad, and this thread justifies it while criticizing my efforts to be the goodies.

:V

in case it wasn't obvious that was sarcasm.
 
I thought my :V 's would make my sarcastic strawman obvious.

But I really do believe falling into Imperialism and trying to do it BETTER is a fools gambit seeing as people are complaining we're barely holding it together RN, not to mention our inability/lack of action in regards to actually dealing with our own social issues. I'll eat my lunch if we pull it off though.

I've given up arguing with everyone about the dangers of it and return instead, to my memes.
I mean, when the choice is to either to try to get it better, or just sort of do nothing as bad things are still happening, why not try?
 
I mean, when the choice is to either to try to get it better, or just sort of do nothing as bad things are still happening, why not try?

Don't lie about my argument, my argument was we don't need to do Imperialism to try to stop it, people just weren't willing to accept the cost of that course of action.

*thanos meme here*

Do nothing my butt, Im saying if we do Imperialism chances are we won't do it better because we'll have other things to worry about.
 
@Academia Nut Will we need to lower tariff on steel to keep the Kiemlyr happy?

Even though you are able to do a lot more local sourcing now, you have been buying so much steel that to some extent the Kielmyr are going "No, no, build your own, we can't keep up anyway, and a bunch of other nations want to make orders to. We are literally drowning in the money you sent us, it's okay."

Now, if you seem to be edging into their exclusive recipes they might get a bit annoyed because that is what really makes others want to come to them. Then again they might be "Okay, let us invest in your foundries and we'll be cool."
 
We know now however that it's bad, with strong evidence that it's bad in the longterm for everyone involved and yet here we are. On the cusp of Theory of Empire because of our actions.
The thing is, even with future sight? Its bad in that it allows bad practices to perpetuate, it generates anti-competitive behaviors...which are all natural effects of an evolutionarily successful approach. Its like how the Guilds are to Unions really.

But right now it's good because it gives what is needed right now:
-Justification for interventions against imperial powers
-Justification for development of colonies
-Code of conduct for already necessary colonies(dem coaling stations)

OTL imperialism died, amongst other things, because the colonies were too developed after the wars to be maintained as colonies. They demanded either full membership or self governance and they had the muscle to make it happen.
As it turns out, Romantic Paternalism is probably going to speed that process up a bunch huh?
Even though you are able to do a lot more local sourcing now, you have been buying so much steel that to some extent the Kielmyr are going "No, no, build your own, we can't keep up anyway, and a bunch of other nations want to make orders to. We are literally drowning in the money you sent us, it's okay."

*Frantically attempts to swim like Scrooge McDuck*
 
Since @soulcake has yet to put what I figured would be really obvious, I suppose I shall have to point this out :p

The absolute fastest way to environmentalism is Romantic Paternalism and to go a conquering to set up Natural History Museums to supercharge research into bioscience.

Yes, if you want your TREES then conquering as many ecosystems as possible is the fastest route.
 
Since @soulcake has yet to put what I figured would be really obvious, I suppose I shall have to point this out :p

The absolute fastest way to environmentalism is Romantic Paternalism and to go a conquering to set up Natural History Museums to supercharge research into bioscience.

Yes, if you want your TREES then conquering as many ecosystems as possible is the fastest route.

And this would be how to get GSF back?
 
Since @soulcake has yet to put what I figured would be really obvious, I suppose I shall have to point this out :p

The absolute fastest way to environmentalism is Romantic Paternalism and to go a conquering to set up Natural History Museums to supercharge research into bioscience.

Yes, if you want your TREES then conquering as many ecosystems as possible is the fastest route.
Incidentally annexing the rich ecosystem of the east coast of Africa would add so, so many trees to our clay.
 
Dealing with imperialism and trying to balance being an imperial power while also trying to reduce or eliminate the oppression that said imperialism causes while fighting other empires is a really cool story for me, and I suspect I'm not alone in that.
Meh, if I wanted to read about arrogant imperialist assholes with "good" intentions fucking things up, I'd open a history book.
Since @soulcake has yet to put what I figured would be really obvious, I suppose I shall have to point this out :p

The absolute fastest way to environmentalism is Romantic Paternalism and to go a conquering to set up Natural History Museums to supercharge research into bioscience.

Yes, if you want your TREES then conquering as many ecosystems as possible is the fastest route.
The trees stand in the way of progress. They'll have to go!
 
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Don't lie about my argument, my argument was we don't need to do Imperialism to try to stop it, people just weren't willing to accept the cost of that course of action.
I mean, its either 'don't be imperialist and watch the world burn in the fires of empire' or 'be imperialist and watch the world burn with smaller fires of empire'

There's literally no option that has us stop imperialism, bar us suiciding and exploding over everyone so bad that the empires are too busy getting the fire off them to empire in the near future.

And then you fast forward a few decades, and they do it anyways...

Edit: Like, we can avoid imperalsim, or we can help other nations not get totally screwed by imperialism. Those are our two choices. There is no 'Don't be imperialist and stop imperialism' option available.
 
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Since @soulcake has yet to put what I figured would be really obvious, I suppose I shall have to point this out :p

The absolute fastest way to environmentalism is Romantic Paternalism and to go a conquering to set up Natural History Museums to supercharge research into bioscience.

Yes, if you want your TREES then conquering as many ecosystems as possible is the fastest route.
Any chance we divert the focus of our imperialism to southeast Asia? Both the unclaimed bits and parts of the Maharathan Empire?

Or are we basically guaranteed to move into Africa?
 
Since @soulcake has yet to put what I figured would be really obvious, I suppose I shall have to point this out :p

The absolute fastest way to environmentalism is Romantic Paternalism and to go a conquering to set up Natural History Museums to supercharge research into bioscience.

Yes, if you want your TREES then conquering as many ecosystems as possible is the fastest route.
Well, if you put it that way...

To be honest, as much as I think imperialism evil and should never have existed, this isn't real life with real people* and I haven't felt for the Gulmaryns like I did for their Ymaryn ancestors. So I won't argue against Romantic Paternalism. Especially since 'teaching other people how to farm/tree good' has been our thing since forever, and I'm curious what Egypt going a-conquering in Africa would lead to.

*Though a little empathy with the make-believe people is kind of necessary for this game to be any fun.
 
Any chance we divert the focus of our imperialism to southeast Asia? Both the unclaimed bits and parts of the Maharathan Empire?

Or are we basically guaranteed to move into Africa?
Coaling stations kind of makes going into Africa unavoidable. About the only way to stop it would to be for us to build the Not!Suez Canal before we need coaling stations...

Edit: Otherwise the plan is to sick Khemetri on as much of Not!Africa as possible and let them deal with the headaches using Romantic Paternalism.
 
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Well, if you put it that way...

To be honest, as much as I think imperialism evil and should never have existed, this isn't real life with real people* and I haven't felt for the Gulmaryns like I did for their Ymaryn ancestors. So I won't argue against Romantic Paternalism. Especially since 'teaching other people how to farm/tree good' has been our thing since forever, and I'm curious what Egypt going a-conquering in Africa would lead to.

*Though a little empathy with the make-believe people is kind of necessary for this game to be any fun.

Well, the only thing the Gulmaryns lack for restoring the old Ymaryn is the damn sacred forests... them with enviromentalims we will start declaring Tree Wars!

"Gulmaryn: You cut too much trees"
"Randomcountry: but... but... but... we were starving!"
"Gulmaryn: We have learned whom to feed people and keep the trees, so should you!"
"Randomcountry: them teach us!"
"Gulmaryn: we will, with war."
 
Any chance we divert the focus of our imperialism to southeast Asia? Both the unclaimed bits and parts of the Maharathan Empire?

Or are we basically guaranteed to move into Africa?

You'll want coaling stations to support Tragon and transit to Mapanca, which is still an important silver producer, so yes, you will have interests in SEA.

Maharatha is gonna be a problem though.

Well, the only thing the Gulmaryns lack for restoring the old Ymaryn is the damn sacred forests... them with enviromentalims we will start declaring Tree Wars!

"Gulmaryn: You cut too much trees"
"Randomcountry: but... but... but... we were starving!"
"Gulmaryn: We have learned whom to feed people and keep the trees, so should you!"
"Randomcountry: them teach us!"
"Gulmaryn: we will, with war."

Gulmaryn confirmed for Dorf Fort elves.
 
Well, the only thing the Gulmaryns lack for restoring the old Ymaryn is the damn sacred forests... them with enviromentalims we will start declaring Tree Wars!

"Gulmaryn: You cut too much trees"
"Randomcountry: but... but... but... we were starving!"
"Gulmaryn: We have learned whom to feed people and keep the trees, so should you!"
"Randomcountry: them teach us!"
"Gulmaryn: we will, with war."
Theory of Empires: Romantic Arborealism
 
And even if we do decide to avoid greater Khem, Khem is gonna go balistic on it. We can ether give them our ToE or they can take the Sketch ToE. Ether way they are gonna explode south. Greater Khem is Khem's Kyberia.

And Vortulga blocks them on the West coast, so that means exploding down the east cost of Khem.
 
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