Remove ads

Magna Graecia: Titanomachia (A City State Quest)

Reader mode
Sivantic said:
I mean seriously, sometimes you just want to see when the point is to have a cool fight, does it really matter if an Eretrian soldier is fighting the black shirts or a British Navy Captain fighting Napoleon on Dragonback? We just want to punch bad guys. :V
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Napoleon
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Bad guys
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

*eye twitch*

...okay.

The Sandman said:
Pretty sure "interior shepherds" would be the Samnites.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Most likely. The Samnites are probably the biggest pain in the ass of any power attempting to unify Italy, so let's either stay away from them or, in the future, back their efforts against Roman/Etruscan/Latin hegemony.
 
Telamon said:
*eye twitch*

...okay.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Part of the juvenile fantasy of punching the bad guys is not having to angst about whether they are, objectively, that bad.

Telamon said:
Most likely. The Samnites are probably the biggest pain in the ass of any power attempting to unify Italy, so let's either stay away from them or, in the future, back their efforts against Roman/Etruscan/Latin hegemony.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Goddamn Samnite Balls of Steel trait...
 
The Sandman said:
Pretty sure "interior shepherds" would be the Samnites.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I looked over an earlier update and it seems it is indeed the Samnites, who seem to be ranging rather far. The Etruscans in the area are also complaining about being raided by them and unsuccessfully tried to get help from the city of Veii in the south of the northern Etruscan areas. In either case I don't really see it as much of our business unless we have the Dauni out of our way or the Dauni become otherwise much less capable of halting them, but what an unfortunate neighborhood.

Ironanvil1 said:
The way to look at it isn't that the Drakonids got suddenly wiped out electorally. It's that after 34 uninterrupted years of pushing their policies, Eretria found itself with unaddressed issues outside their competencies that needed dealt with.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Sure, but I'm saying that the magnitude of their loss (not a single figure in an important public office as well as the unfortunate passing of their Proboulos candidate in the recent war) means that their ideas of Adriatic hegemony are absolutely bottom barrel priority for the city at this point. Since they're the only ones who really care about that over all the other interests like economic integration of the subject barbaroi and picking off the Dauni or making nice in southwest Italy and cleaning up the city to be a really impressive cultural center, it's going to take some time and effort and putting that other stuff on the backburner to not only get those earlier options back up on the table but to follow through with them and push to the next step. I'm not sure if that's entirely prudent given the challenges we face in Italy and Sicily, as much as I would prefer to be all Adriatic all the time.

Secretariat said:
Yeah. As @Kipeci notes, we're going to see a lot more success if we choose a path to focus on, whatever that may be -- I think there's a broad consensus that the Dauni are the primary medium-term target.

As an electorate, I think we want to weigh the demes based on that metric, and try to avoid distractions from that goal if at all possible.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That's the thing, I think that chance kind of went by the wayside a bit to avoid having our attentions split. Syracuse hates our guts and will make us regret being such an irritation if we let it grow, as we've been a thorn in its side for decades. So some Antipatrid focus on stuff like counter-raiding the Brutii or whatever is really necessary there, otherwise our coalition there will start to decay and maybe get picked apart if we can't provide them a clear benefit to our membership. See how Syracuse seized on the opportunity to extract an indemnity from the Sikeliote League over some trees the moment we came to blows with Taras, and we know Thurii was frustrated by how it could not get Herakleia Lukania despite its participation- if that sort of thing keeps happening where they contribute for nothing or get harmed while we have a laser focus on Dauni or pirates or whatever, they're going to start questioning the point of this alliance. Yet if we are going to pursue the Dauni, that and the economic/military integration of the huge number of semi-restive barbaroi subjects we will have means we'll need to be having the Exoria folk around. But if we don't do anything about piracy in Adriatic which is the concern of the Drakonids, our starting benefits with that faction are going to be eaten up as our trade gets plundered.


I'd personally put the Antipatrid faction as number one priority at this point. Our only major allies don't even have a friendly land corridor to reach us or vice versa, and I am quite concerned by the rise of a vengeful Syracuse- plus, we just saw how effective Italian diplomacy was in denying us the victory in peace that we had gained on the battlefield. Why not be on the other side of that weapon?

I think we can spare attention to pressing concerns of a second faction on a regular basis, but all three is just setting us up to be mediocre everywhere. In light of that, my preference is to have a secondary focus on the Drakonid faction. That way we can prevent our lucrative gains from the past decades in Adriatic trade from being whittled away and maintain our naval edge. The Exorian faction is not so appealing to me, overlordship over the Dauni or a substantial weakening of them means that one northern power to worry about is substituted with two (the Frentani and the Samnites) who as I understand it are more intimidating anyway. Also, they've tended to put us on a collision course with Taras and I don't like adding to the pile of major enemies if I can help it.
 
In OTL Campania was overran by samnites around this date. If this happens and Samnium start to grow by conquest, hit the Dauni too hard and we might have to deal with samnite neighbors soon. So I propose to secure that border with diplomacy first and use them as buffer.
But greater concern is our domestic policy and homefront. We have some serious issues with city planning and have to finish the temples soon. We have to deal with the Messapii and they propably won't be happy with the results of the war. And we have pirate threatening our trade routes. So I think in the near future we must use only our magnificent navy in military actions and start a serious diplomatic campaign to prevent the smaller threats to escalate.
Also, to participate in the vote: in the current situation I can't see that Eretria can gain much if we continue the war. We have a great work to finish, barbaroi to swing to our cause and general upheaval in the region. We also managed to show our prowess in battle, so I vote to

[X] Accept the peace.
 
@Cetashwayo, a question. Were the Greeks or any of the Mediterranean people ever known to have used travois? All I could see online is its a Native American/Possible Stone Age Eurasia thing.

Travois are better for usage with dirt roads, right? To the point they constantly maintain the dirt roads by just dragging them over said dirt roads? Could we possibly reintroduce it to Classical Age Europe if its forgotten?
 
Last edited:
Secretariat said:
Yeah. As @Kipeci notes, we're going to see a lot more success if we choose a path to focus on, whatever that may be -- I think there's a broad consensus that the Dauni are the primary medium-term target.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Will we? I see success as coming through a balancing act.

If we focus overly much on trade, then our tributaries or the Italiote cities might make trouble. If we focus overly on our relations with other Greek cities, we may end up running short of money due to neglecting trade, if we focus overly on absorbing our tributaries we could end up being ruined by pirates and so on...

I think we want to mix things up with an eye to what kind of policy will work best as situations around Eretria change and provide new opportunities or make certain policies less cost-effective.

@Cetashwayo how many slaves are employed in Eretria now? And what economic sectors are they forced to work in?

fasquardon
 
SneakySnek said:
To kickstart my character: @Cetashwayo what is our current connections with Kyme? They were fairly amicable, right? Also, what is our disposition with the northern and southern etruscan leagues (if the Capua area is still in etruscan hands, last time they looked for help, maybe we can use this, to gain an ally there or strenghten Kyme)? And lasty, having a foreigner wife isn't really a reputable thing, right? And childrens of such a marriage are not citizens, am I correct?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

1. The relationship with Kymai is amiable but distant as Kipeci guessed.
2. The disposition with them is decent, but they are not friends so much as trading partners.
3. Yes, it isn't. Your children would not inherit citizenship.


fasquardon said:
@Cetashwayo how many slaves are employed in Eretria now? And what economic sectors are they forced to work in?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

At most, not more than a thousand? altogether. Mostly employed in dock work trade gangs where ownership is shared between a number of merchants, or as house slaves.

kilopi505 said:
Travois are better for usage with dirt roads, right? To the point they constantly maintain the dirt roads by just dragging them over said dirt roads? Could we possibly reintroduce it to Classical Age Europe if its forgotten?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I don't know what a travois is.
 
fasquardon said:
Will we? I see success as coming through a balancing act.

If we focus overly much on trade, then our tributaries or the Italiote cities might make trouble. If we focus overly on our relations with other Greek cities, we may end up running short of money due to neglecting trade, if we focus overly on absorbing our tributaries we could end up being ruined by pirates and so on...

I think we want to mix things up with an eye to what kind of policy will work best as situations around Eretria change and provide new opportunities or make certain policies less cost-effective.

@Cetashwayo how many slaves are employed in Eretria now? And what economic sectors are they forced to work in?

fasquardon
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

If we give up the pursuit of excellence/arete, the other Hellenes would absolutely be correct to call us barbarians. :p

Also, here's a thread on the sophistication of trireme rams —



Most relevantly,

 
Kipeci said:
This looks like a worse version of a cart.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It has the advantage of being cheaper, and less prone to getting stuck in mud, but it's worse across firm ground. The cost savings in construction is not worth the reduced effective load across time capacity, not in the slightest. It's why it wasn't used in the area in the first place.

It's yet more bizarrely out-of-place technology that's not actually beneficial, though this time it's anachronistically primitive, rather than advanced, for the area's characteristics.
 
Last edited:
Kipeci said:
This looks like a worse version of a cart.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Godwinson said:
It has the advantage of being cheaper, and less prone to getting stuck in mud, but it's worse across firm ground. The cost savings in construction is not worth the reduced effective load across time capacity, not in the slightest. It's why it wasn't used in the area in the first place.

It's yet more bizarrely out-of-place technology that's not actually beneficial, though this time it's anachronistically primitive, rather than advanced, for the area's characteristics.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

You guys forgot "Can use dogs instead of horses as pack animals" among the advantages. Maybe even goats?

In the end I'm trying to compensate for the transportation network's poor present condition. And breeding larger dogs in the process, maybe ending up with war dogs. And going with the cheaper but more quantity route to just encourage...more people than just merchants to start trading.
 
Last edited:
kilopi505 said:
You guys forgot "Can use dogs instead of horses as pack animals" among the advantages. Maybe even goats?

In the end I'm trying to compensate for the transportation network's poor present condition. And breeding larger dogs in the process, maybe ending up with war dogs. And going with the cheaper but more quantity route.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Dogs are exceptionally poor traction animals in terms of caloric efficiency for mass pulled, which is even worse for a travois. Goats aren't viable for traction work either (it's difficult enough getting them to do work).
 
kilopi505 said:
You guys forgot "Can use dogs instead of horses as pack animals" among the advantages. Maybe even goats?

In the end I'm trying to compensate for the transportation network's poor present condition. And breeding larger dogs in the process, maybe ending up with war dogs. And going with the cheaper but more quantity route.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
We have horses, though. Why would that be an advantage?
 
kilopi505 said:
Super duper cheap start up cost for wanna be traders. Opening the trading industry to anyone with dogs. Or willing to pull a travois themselves.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Anyone who is that poor isn't going to be able to afford any stock to act as a trader. Also, they're not actually cheaper to maintain, due to the dietary differences for dogs. Please try to think through all the consequences and prerequisites of your plans, instead of relying on anyone around you to do so?
 
There's one travois-like wooden apparition that's actually useful for any society using horses and dirt roads:
King road drag - Wikipedia

Wetapunga said:
Allows a one man crew with two horse or oxen to produce and maintain tens of miles of high quality dirt roads good enough for motor vehicles even in winter wet

The implications for military logistics in any era are huge, these roads are as good or better than Roman roads, and far cheaper and faster to build and maintain.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Look at this!


Anyone could have invented it after copper nails were used.
 
Last edited:
Godwinson said:
Anyone who is that poor isn't going to be able to afford any stock to act as a trader. Also, they're not actually cheaper to maintain, due to the dietary differences for dogs. Please try to think through all the consequences and prerequisites of your plans, instead of relying on anyone around you to do so?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Basically, theres a really good reason why traders use roads and carts or ships.
A travois is something a hunter might use to drag their catch back to town or the like, where efficiency isn't a concern so much as being able to do it at all.
You wouldn't use it if you could plan your trip, because you could travel five times the distance to use a road and still come out ahead.
 
Ok, rereading the Immigration for Loyalists and we only gained 11 metics... which is underwhelming. I think instead of focusing on untested inventions, we should incetivize more births while making sure the mother's survive said child-bearing since it seems our birth rates are similar to the other city-states and not as large as was in the previous quest thread. Maybe we can do this by a fertility festival for the increase in birth rates and making sure best midwife practices are taught to others... i dont know how this would happen organically though
 
kilopi505 said:
Super duper cheap start up cost for wanna be traders. Opening the trading industry to anyone with dogs. Or willing to pull a travois themselves.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

What on earth is Hermesdora thinking again? Has he been inspired by Bacchus' blessing to his humours as to give these ideas?!

"Hermesdora, once again could you use your fevered imaginations to improve the poor state of our plays and theatres? Those exercises in intellectual stimulation and logical creativity can finally end our status as the home of vile and wretched laughingstocks of literature and culture."

Iskandar sighed in exasperation.

"Perhaps we can talk about a tale of a group of soldiers dropping from the skies to fight monsters from fantastic realms as a tale? I believe your imagination is up to the task."
 
butchock said:
Ok, rereading the Immigration for Loyalists and we only gained 11 metics... which is underwhelming. I think instead of focusing on untested inventions, we should incetivize more births while making sure the mother's survive said child-bearing since it seems our birth rates are similar to the other city-states and not as large as was in the previous quest thread. Maybe we can do this by a fertility festival for the increase in birth rates and making sure best midwife practices are taught to others... i dont know how this would happen organically though
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

11 Metics...? You don't get new population numbers until the next census.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top