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Magical Girl Escalation Taylor (Worm/Nanoha)

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Dalxein said:
He'd also probably wind up either employed by the government as an 'interrogator', kidnapped by some unscrupulous group for the same purpose, or end up Birdcaged on the off chance he might learn and leak government secrets. I don't really see any other options.
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It wouldn't work that way. Danny as offered earlier takes 'control' of people more or less by simple proximity. Getting him to the birdcage would require dragon to send a swarm of robots to interdict all of his current hive and hope that he doesn't get a local authority figure to tell her to order her to stand down. Danny even without a second trigger is a hell of a lot more dangerous than Canary, even if he ?can't? directly control his 'thralls'.
Silently Watches said:
Wow, you guys really don't understand the concept of "don't tempt me", do you? :evil: :lol :rofl:
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Oh we do, make no mistake. It's just fun. Personally I'd be fascinated to see Danny go from Protoss Khala to Zerg Swarm. He'd make an awesome villain, and if he doesn't go villain it would solve the issue of the missing Khepri should the quest fail to handle the endbringers magically. Or maybe they could compete for the honor?
 
Solusandra said:
It wouldn't work that way.
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I was working under the assumption that, since second triggers are never straight power ups, he'd either lose his original power, or it'd change to the point where considering the old power as it is wouldn't make sense. Seeing into people's minds (through memories or otherwise) is an incredible amount of power, especially in a world where telepathy powers are rare.
 
Hey @Silently Watches, there is something about that last chapter that I wanted to ask you about, because its been bothering me. There is a very important question that Taylor didn't ask the TSAB that I think really needed to be addressed and that question is "what are you going to do now?" Asking the admiral about him men attacking was needed, but it mostly covered things they already told us. Why didn't Taylor ask about what will happen going forward?

The thing Taylor should want to know is: are the TSAB planning to take PS/IAE back? And if they aren't, why not? Both we and Taylor know that IAE is a planet destroying super-weapon and the TSAB came to Earth looking for it. Now that they found it, why are they leaving it in the hands of a 15 year old? That would be like if terrorist stole a nuke and the government tracked it down to some kids closet and said "sure kid, go ahead and keep it." The very idea is absurd.

Not only Taylor, but even I don't understand the TSAB's motivations. I get that they want to make a good impression, on both the planet and Taylor, but securing a class 1 lost logia should take precedence. Why in the world would they let Taylor go with something that dangerous when, for all they know, it could activate and try to conquer the universe tomorrow?

And before anyone mentions the TSAB letting Hayate keep the book of darkness, I would say the situations are completely different.
1. The BOD wasn't a weapon, it was just malfunctioning.
2. Hayate fixed it while the TSAB watched.
3. In fixing it she crippled it, destroying the defense system that was the real planet destroying danger; and
4. She was already in TSAB custody. I'm sure they did lots of tests off screen before they let her keep it.

In contrast IAE is totally a weapon. The fact that it isn't destroying planets right now is the malfunction. Without a detailed analysis, its impossible to know what changed it or if it may reactivate, and it is completely still capable of planet destroying.

With this in mind, it is weird that the TSAB is just letting Taylor keep it and this really should have been addressed in the conversation IMO.

Edit: That little offhand line about "now that they know IAE's status" is not really enough.
 
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I do believe that the main difference is that the weapon in question is sapient. And so trying to take it will provoke it even if the owner doesn't want anything bad to happen.
 
DestinyPlayer said:
I do believe that the main difference is that the weapon in question is sapient. And so trying to take it will provoke it even if the owner doesn't want anything bad to happen.
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But they already had it. When the team caught Taylor they took it and sealed it. They could have just kept it then. Besides they knew IAE was sentient when they first started hunting it. A sentient super-weapon is still a super-weapon.

If anything that makes it worse because it chose to attack their ships and kill their people, rather than just being a tool.
 
pkong said:
But they already had it. When the team caught Taylor they took it and sealed it. They could have just kept it then. Besides they knew IAE was sentient when they first started hunting it. A sentient super-weapon is still a super-weapon.

If anything that makes it worse because it chose to attack their ships and kill their people, rather than just being a tool.
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Huh, I actually missed the "sealed" part.

But anyway, imagine your "nuke in a kid's closet" comparison. Said nuke says that it doesn't want to explode anymore, and just wants to stay with the kid. And then says that if you try to take it away, it will immediately explode. Would you try to get rid of it anyway, or would you leave it here?
 
pkong said:
With this in mind, it is weird that the TSAB is just letting Taylor keep it and this really should have been addressed in the conversation IMO.
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pkong said:
The thing Taylor should want to know is: are the TSAB planning to take PS/IAE back? And if they aren't, why not?
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I seem to remember this before:
Silently Watches said:
"Somebody will want Perfect Storm back, won't they?"

Tucson recognizes your worry for what it is, and he gives you a soft smile as he shakes his head. "Intelligent Devices have a way of choosing their own wielders. If we so much as thought about trying to take your partner away, every single one of our mages would rise up in revolt not a minute later. Besides, if you can retrieve even a single personal item from the Agharti, everybody who lost a loved one in the crash would be firmly behind you. You have nothing to fear, Taylor. Perfect Storm is yours."
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And what happened when the Enforcers got ahold of it?
Silently Watches said:
While you are trying to reassure Perfect Storm, Samantha lifts her head to stare at the Enforcers. «What happens to us now?»

"Good question. You mighta been adjusted by Immortal Assimilation Engine, but you still got your minds. You're not a danger to your world at large." He strokes his chin. "Don't really have a reason to keep you in the brig, I don't think. Can't punish somebody for what they might do."
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Silently Watches said:
You stare at the young woman in shock and shame for a long moment before Erga clears his throat. "And on that note, let's get you home. But first." He taps the face of his digital watch. "Release binding seal, captured Intelligent Device 1."

"Seal release."

Ribbons of green light covered with script appear wrapped around Perfect Storm. The next instant, they shatter like glass. "Just like that?" you can't help but ask.

"Just like that."
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They did just that. IAE and all.

You are four months too late to the party to begin complaining about this @pkong.
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pkong said:
But they already had it. When the team caught Taylor they took it and sealed it. They could have just kept it then. Besides they knew IAE was sentient when they first started hunting it. A sentient super-weapon is still a super-weapon.

If anything that makes it worse because it chose to attack their ships and kill their people, rather than just being a tool.
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Sapient does not equal free will. IAE is a very intelligent computer program. It's Skynet. It did what it was programmed to do, because it was programmed to do it.
 
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pkong said:
The thing Taylor should want to know is: are the TSAB planning to take PS/IAE back? And if they aren't, why not?
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As far as I understand, there is three reasons why they're leaving IAE to Taylor:
1. Taylor looks sane and doesn't desire worlds domination. That means that probably it will be more safe to let her be than to try to seize IAE and provoke her to retaliate.
2. They hope to recruit Taylor. A S-class mage with controlled Lost Logia at your service is much better than sealed Lost Logia in your coffin.
3. Earth-Bet and surrounding worlds are separated from the universe by a dimensional barrier. It's impossible to teleport outside, and two ships that tried to cross the barrier crashed. So, even if IAE decides to continue his war, he'll destroy only Earthes (and noone cares about them) and will be incapable to reach TSAB worlds.

The first reason looks stupid, I agree, but that's TSAB for you.
 
DestinyPlayer said:
But anyway, imagine your "nuke in a kid's closet" comparison. Said nuke says that it doesn't want to explode anymore, and just wants to stay with the kid. And then says that if you try to take it away, it will immediately explode. Would you try to get rid of it anyway, or would you leave it here?
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Try to get rid of it anyway of course. What your describing here is a hostage situation. Governments tend not to react well to threats like this. And it raises questions like "why would a weapon that is only programmed to kill things suddenly want to live in peace? and "how can we trust that it won't detonate later?" Leaving a threat like that alone isn't an option.

and @Always Late I know what happened back then but:

1. Their comment about keeping PS was made before they realized it was a lost logia and
2. They are just a bunch of grunts. They don't speak for the TSAB.

The whole point of talking to the admiral was to get the TSAB's official stance. And if that stance is the same as what was said by the soldiers, that's great, but it should be stated officially and I would really want to know why.

It's one thing to not punish Taylor, its another to let her keep something that dangerous. Most government's don't tend to let threats go based on hopes and dreams.

P.S. I also think their decision to let it go, without even talking to their bosses was stupid, but yes it is too late to complain about that. :p

DestinyPlayer said:
Yeah. TSAB is idealistic and would rather take the chance that something ridiculously dangerous is actually in good hands and is capable of doing good instead of locking it up and throwing it in a closet.
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I mean, yes they are idealistic, but I don't think they are that idealistic. Like I said, in the show everything tended to work out perfectly. There were very few real bad guys. Everyone was a victim who just needed love. And since everyone cooperated and ended up going with the TSAB, they could afford to be nice and let them keep the weapons, while under observation. That is not the case here.
 
pkong said:
Try to get rid of it anyway of course. What your describing here is a hostage situation. Governments tend not to react well to threats like this. And it raises questions like "why would a weapon that is only programmed to kill things suddenly want to live in peace? and "how can we trust that it won't detonate later?" Leaving a threat like that alone isn't an option.
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And then it explodes. The end.

And with this pointless phrase I'm off. I think I'm too sleep deprived for coherent discussion.
 
pkong said:
Why didn't Taylor ask about what will happen going forward?
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Short answer is that she was primarily concerned with why the Enforcers attacked her and making sure it didn't happen again because that's what the OOC discussion has been about since the Enforcers' introduction. Besides, if they wanted to take Perfect Storm/IAE away, they wouldn't have given it back.

Longer answer:
pkong said:
The thing Taylor should want to know is: are the TSAB planning to take PS/IAE back? And if they aren't, why not? Both we and Taylor know that IAE is a planet destroying super-weapon and the TSAB came to Earth looking for it. Now that they found it, why are they leaving it in the hands of a 15 year old? That would be like if terrorist stole a nuke and the government tracked it down to some kids closet and said "sure kid, go ahead and keep it." The very idea is absurd.
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A better analogy than a nuke in the closet is a previously vicious attack dog that was later found to be in a kid's company and is acting like a regular friendly dog. Somehow or another, this kid got the dog to behave when by its previous behavior it should have ripped the kid's throat out a long time ago. You could therefore make the case that the dog is actually less dangerous in the kid's hands than it would be were it taken away.
pkong said:
Not only Taylor, but even I don't understand the TSAB's motivations. I get that they want to make a good impression, on both the planet and Taylor, but securing a class 1 lost logia should take precedence. Why in the world would they let Taylor go with something that dangerous when, for all they know, it could activate and try to conquer the universe tomorrow?
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Reason 1: It's already active and not posing a threat in the hands of its current user. It did when it was running around without Taylor. See the vicious attack dog analogy above.
Reason 2: Taylor also has to be part of the consideration, and she has done nothing to warrant intervention. By your logic, the Book of Darkness should have been sealed up and taken away from Hayate. It wasn't, because the end result of a nonthreatening Lost Logia is more important than how it is made nonthreatening. Destroyed, sealed, trapped forever in a block of ice, in a friendly mage's custody; all reasonable options.
Reason 3: Shaseyu's response
Shaseyu said:
3. Earth-Bet and surrounding worlds are separated from the universe by a dimensional barrier. It's impossible to teleport outside, and two ships that tried to cross the barrier crashed. So, even if IAE decides to continue his war, he'll destroy only Earthes (and noone cares about them) and will be incapable to reach TSAB worlds.
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is not incorrect. It's not the TSAB's primary motivation, but it is a reassuring fact nonetheless.
pkong said:
And before anyone mentions the TSAB letting Hayate keep the book of darkness, I would say the situations are completely different.
1. The BOD wasn't a weapon, it was just malfunctioning.
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Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha!

No, the Book of Darkness was totally a weapon. It was a weapon in a different way than IAE because the Belkan methodology was different from the Galean's, but that doesn't change the fact that it is a Warring Ages superweapon. What else do you call a system that has four immortal Belkan warriors and can drain mages of their power to make it easier to slaughter towns wholesale and make its user increasingly powerful with an ever-growing arsenal?

What the corrupted defense program did was make the Book unpredictable and uncontrollable. It was not the only or even the primary reason it was dangerous.
pkong said:
2. They are just a bunch of grunts. They don't speak for the TSAB.
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Grunts? Erga and Teana are a commander and lieutenant commander, respectively. They're high-ranking officers, and being Enforcers means that they have a great deal of autonomy in the field.
pkong said:
I mean, yes they are idealistic, but I don't think they are that idealistic. Like I said, in the show everything tended to work out perfectly. There were very few real bad guys. Everyone was a victim who just needed love. And since everyone cooperated and ended up going with the TSAB, they could afford to be nice and let them keep the weapons, while under observation. That is not the case here.
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Wait, so Taylor isn't a victim who just needs love? Why do you think that?
 
It was before my time, and I understand why people got upset about it, but I think it would be a more interesting path for the story to take if the retconned death hadn't been retconned. Not even because being Taylor is suffering or anything, I just think it would be really interesting.
 
Oniele said:
When the STAB attacked us Taytay died instead of suffering nocked out status.

EDIT: STAB IS INTENTIONAL.
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Oh yeah that, kinda expecting us to die in the next Endbringer fight to atone for that. We shouldn't get a free reroll without having to suffer for it. Also wasn't the respawn system supposed to have been explained there?
 
Silently Watches said:
Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha!

No, the Book of Darkness was totally a weapon. It was a weapon in a different way than IAE because the Belkan methodology was different from the Galean's, but that doesn't change the fact that it is a Warring Ages superweapon. What else do you call a system that has four immortal Belkan warriors and can drain mages of their power to make it easier to slaughter towns wholesale and make its user increasingly powerful with an ever-growing arsenal?

What the corrupted defense program did was make the Book unpredictable and uncontrollable. It was not the only or even the primary reason it was dangerous.
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Admittedly I have been reading a lot of Aleph's Gamesverse so I may be getting it confused, but I'm pretty sure that even in cannon the Tome of the Night Sky was billed as a benign information archive. The absorption function was meant to adsorb knowledge and the guardians and defense program were meant to protect the archive. The Book of Darkness just corrupted and re-purposed these processes.

Silently Watches said:
Reason 1: It's already active and not posing a threat in the hands of its current user. It did when it was running around without Taylor. See the vicious attack dog analogy above.
Reason 2: Taylor also has to be part of the consideration, and she has done nothing to warrant intervention. By your logic, the Book of Darkness should have been sealed up and taken away from Hayate. It wasn't, because the end result of a nonthreatening Lost Logia is more important than how it is made nonthreatening. Destroyed, sealed, trapped forever in a block of ice, in a friendly mage's custody; all reasonable options.
Reason 3: Shaseyu's response
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I really don't think these reasons hold up.

1. Unlike a vicious dog if PS/IAE decides to become hostile again it could take down multiple planets before its put down. Without knowing why its behaving this way how could they trust that it will stay this way? And OOC you specifically told us that if the IAE personality ever overrode the PS personality BAD THINGS would happen. So its not paranoia to suspect something might set it off again. And that's assuming that Taylor herself wouldn't decide to use it to take over the universe (Which knowing SV may just happen).

2. What does punishing Taylor have to do with anything? IAE never belonged to her, she found it in an alley. And see my above post about the absurdity of leaving strategic level weapons in the hands of children. As I said before, they didn't take the Book away from Hayate because she crippled its planet killing capabilities and fixed it under TSAB supervision. Here IAE is still capable of planet killing and the TSAB hasn't confirmed that its safe. They should at least run some tests before declaring the problem solved...

3. I guess, but that's kind of a shitty position take. The TSAB doesn't strike me as the type to write off the death of planets as not their problem.

Silently Watches said:
Wait, so Taylor isn't a victim who just needs love? Why do you think that?
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Taylor isn't a 9 year old who was being tricked by a dimensional criminal/ TSAB Admiral/ Ancient planet destroying abomination, like Fate/Hayate/Ixy. Nor is she currently suffering from anything. She's more of a bystander who got caught up in events that have nothing to do with her than a victim. At least from the TSAB's perspective. They could take back their super dangerous weapon and give her a complimentary device and free tuition to a magic school as compensation.
 
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