Magical Girl Escalation Taylor (Worm/Nanoha)

[edale]

@Seylerius Its important to note that if we stay behind then we aren't protected by the EB truce. Only those who participate are.

Click to shrink...

IIRC, this is incorrect. My understanding was that parahuman crime as a whole stopped as part of the Endbringer Truce.

The Truce is to stop ANYONE from taking advantage of the EB attack for their own purposes. This is why ALL the heroes from a city/town can go out to fight the EBs, because they don't have to worry about the Villains doing anything while they're away.

Whether Taylor is at the warehouse or at the EB fight, if Saint attacks her workshop while the local heroes/Protectorate are away, he's violated that truce.


Behemoth could launch lightning, but lightning was NOT his kill aura. I got the impression his kill aura was radiation based, or possibly something similar to how microwaves work.

We should be immune to the kill aura, but we'd still need to look out for his other attacks.

Also, something to keep in mind, we still have some secret that's undiscovered about Flare Shooter that we would have learned had we used the lethal setting when fighting Lung. Lung was a pyrokenetic... Perhaps the secret is that no one/nothing else can control our shots after we fire them (Lung's Pyrokinesis)? Or perhaps regeneration doesn't work on wounds caused by it?


Also, I think Behemoth could only control one or two forms of energy at a time, so if he's attuned to block/redirect kinetic energy (like say, right after he's taken some hits from Alexandria), then he wouldn't be able to block/redirect our attacks.

 

[Silently Watches]

I've been trying to puzzle out the strange questions and ideas being floated about regarding the warehouse thing – one of the reasons I'm still up when I should be sound asleep by now, sad to say – and it's taken me this long to realize what you guys are thinking. All the ideas about having the Privateers watch the warehouse or calling in Vista and what have you. You guys think you can get video evidence of the Dragonslayers breaking into the warehouse and then wave it around shouting "Aha! I got you red-handed!" and that will be the end of it. You're making two very big assumptions that will come back to bite you in the ass.

1) You think Saint cares about the Truce.
As far as he and the Dragonslayers are concerned, the Truce is a cape thing, and they? They aren't capes. I believe Saint rather gleefully pointed that out when he was threatened with the Birdcage in canon. He's a normal unpowered human, so cape rules don't apply to him. If he is labeled a Truce-breaker, so what? He has no territory for other capes to go to war over. He has no foot soldiers for the gangs to attack with full force. The only cape he interacts with is Dragon, and he's already shown he doesn't give a shit about what he does to her. Most of their jobs when they aren't spying on Dragon is normal mercenary work, and that won't change, Truce-breaker or no.

2) You think the people who hire Saint care about the Truce.
I assure you, they don't. The kinds of people who hire criminals to do their dirty work tend not to care about little things like 'playing by the rules' or 'respecting cape culture'. So long as the Dragonslayers continue to fulfill their end of the deal, their clients will continue hiring them.

So if you want to bring in the Privateers and Vista and the goddamn Girl Scouts to watch the warehouse, fine, do it. It will get you exactly nothing in return.

 

[kokuenDG]

I don't personally think we need to do all that. Just choosing to stay back and take care of the Dragonslayers now while we have the chance is a great idea to me.

No need to make it complicated when we can ambush them and beat the crap outta them.

 

[Shaseyu]

All the ideas about having the Privateers watch the warehouse or calling in Vista and what have you. You guys think you can get video evidence of the Dragonslayers breaking into the warehouse and then wave it around shouting "Aha! I got you red-handed!" and that will be the end of it.

Click to shrink...

Well, my idea was more 'give Vista something to do beyond just sitting at the base and and mulling over who of her friends will not return this time.'

Also, I'm thinking more about Triumvirate reaction than villains.
If Taylor come to them with that evidence they should react.
They tolerated Dragonslayers before, because they know about Dragon's origin and Contessa decided it's more beneficial to have Saint around. But now they're raiding a base of a hero in whom Triumvirate is interested in the middle of Endbringer truth.
What if she'll refuse to fight Endbringers again, because she need to protect her base?
What if Dragonslayers will acquire that technology Alexandria want for PRT?

 

[veekie]

As far as I understand, he's not immune.
He's tough as all Endbringers and can redirect energy attacks to some extend, but that protection can be overcomed by numbers or sheer power of attacks. After all, Phir Se's bomb was actually a laser.

Click to shrink...

Sheer Power doesn't overcome him. Phir Se's bomb would have destroyed India to no effect if Behemoth wasn't distracted by Eidolon.

The only difference with high power is that he actually needs to focus on the task.

Also, something to keep in mind, we still have some secret that's undiscovered about Flare Shooter that we would have learned had we used the lethal setting when fighting Lung. Lung was a pyrokenetic... Perhaps the secret is that no one/nothing else can control our shots after we fire them (Lung's Pyrokinesis)? Or perhaps regeneration doesn't work on wounds caused by it?

Click to shrink...

Lung is a pyrokinetic in the sense that he can create fire from thin air, not that he can move fire around. He did not do anything about Sundancer's sun in canon.

Being able to control the fire you made is different from being able to control all fire.

Also, I think Behemoth could only control one or two forms of energy at a time, so if he's attuned to block/redirect kinetic energy (like say, right after he's taken some hits from Alexandria), then he wouldn't be able to block/redirect our attacks.

Click to shrink...

This is true, but I'm dubious of our ability to exploit that, the timing is VERY close, and our most powerful attacks have a windup time.

It'd be better if we had some team training experience with the Triumvirate, but busters have a 3 second charge up and Breakers have a 10 count charge. That's not very good against Behemoth.

So if you want to bring in the Privateers and Vista and the goddamn Girl Scouts to watch the warehouse, fine, do it. It will get you exactly nothing in return.

Click to shrink...

...why is this even being suggested? We KNOW the regular info channels are compromised, which is why we're doing it personally isn't it?

 

[LancerisDead]

Ah, so Behemoth just wants to play World of Tanks!


As far as I understand, he's not immune.
He's tough as all Endbringers and can redirect energy attacks to some extend, but that protection can be overcomed by numbers or sheer power of attacks. After all, Phir Se's bomb was actually a laser.


I will vote for Endbringer fight.
Because that's what heroes do. You know, go against impossible odds, try to save lives even if your chances to actually stop the monster is so slim...
Also, there is only one way to find out how our spells interact with Endbringer - go and shoot him. After all, that's how extends of Flechette's power were found out.
Also, if TSAB come in this arc, they will notice someone throwing spells around and look closer. I prefer they look closer at big fight with Endbringer, not Dragonslayers.

...Interesting, will Vista participate?
PRT was willing to send Wards to fight Endbringers in other countries in canon, but I'm pretty sure they all were older than her.
If she's not going can we ask her to watch the warehouse?

Click to shrink...

If this were any other monster, I'd say go for it. If this were canon and there was no other alternative than fight or let the world slowly rot, what choice would we have? However, there's a difference between heroism and heroic stupidity.

We know for a fact that help is in the way; whatever damage we could deal out to Behemoth has a 50% chance of turning against on our allies, and that's not even considering if we can actually damage him. Plus, we are still squishy to everything else he can hit us with, as Sam's fight with the Dragonslayers cleanly demonstrates.

As it stands, our two choices are risking our lives on a fight with the Endbringer that we are worst matched against or removing a dangerous and annoying player that is holding a guillotine above one of our biggest allies.

 

[Shaseyu]

We know for a fact that help is in the way;

Click to shrink...

We as players know it.
Taylor don't have any idea will TSAB help with Endbringers and do they actually have capabilities to defeat them.

 

[Always Late]

We as players know it.
Taylor don't have any idea will TSAB help with Endbringers and do they actually have capabilities to defeat them.

Click to shrink...

... Shas, she called the TSAB to help against the Endbringers. Taylor expects them to help.

 

[Silently Watches]

Also, I'm thinking more about Triumvirate reaction than villains.
If Taylor come to them with that evidence they should react.
They tolerated Dragonslayers before, because they know about Dragon's origin and Contessa decided it's more beneficial to have Saint around. But now they're raiding a base of a hero in whom Triumvirate is interested in the middle of Endbringer truth.
What if she'll refuse to fight Endbringers again, because she need to protect her base?
What if Dragonslayers will acquire that technology Alexandria want for PRT?

Click to shrink...

Don't take this the wrong way, but let's think through that case you're talking about.

The Dragonslayers walked into an empty warehouse. They then walked out of an empty warehouse. They took nothing with them; video evidence proves that. They damaged nothing. This isn't your base, and it has no evidence of your true identity.

So what you're proposing is for the Triumvirate and the Protectorate to go full-force after a group of non-capes because during an Endbringer fight they committed the heinous crime of… trespassing.

Mm-hmm.

FYI, failing to be caught in your trap is not a violation of the Truce. That you set a trap at all during an EB fight actually makes you look bad. Just saying.

 

[Shaseyu]

... Shas, she called the TSAB to help against the Endbringers. Taylor expects them to help.

Click to shrink...

That's because she's idiot.
You know, I can call CIA or, I don't know, NSA and ask their help with something. That doesn't mean they will actually help.

...I hate the situation when one did idiotic assumption and it's somehow worked out in the end...

Let's imagine it's 'Mass Effect' crossover, not 'Nanoha'.
Taylor found protean artifact and then contacted Salarians, who lost it. So, STG came to Earth, secretly retrieved their artifact (let's not think what's happened with Taylor), stole a dozen parahumans for study and left several spy satellites to watch Endbringers.
Then they left.
Maybe one day they'll return to try and tame them, or steal additional parahumans.
The end.

So what you're proposing is for the Triumvirate and the Protectorate to go full-force after a group of non-capes because during an Endbringer fight they committed the heinous crime of… trespassing.

Click to shrink...

Their 'crime' is not trespassing, but going after the cape whose help Triumvirate want.

 

[Silently Watches]

...I hate the situation when one did idiotic assumption and it's somehow worked out in the end...

Let's imagine it's 'Mass Effect' crossover, not 'Nanoha'.
Taylor found protean artifact and then contacted Salarians, who lost it. So, STG came to Earth, secretly retrieved their artifact (let's not think what's happened with Taylor), stole a dozen parahumans for study and left several spy satellites to watch Endbringers.
Then they left.
Maybe one day they'll return to try and tame them, or steal additional parahumans.
The end.

Click to shrink...

So… you want this to not be compliant with Nanoha canon, then. One of the central themes of Nanoha is that people generally want and try to be good, and if you just try talking to one another, you'll find more common ground than differences. I'm not going to change that just so this story is darker for darkness's sake. I have one of those already, thank you very much.

Their 'crime' is not trespassing, but going after the cape whose help Triumvirate want.

Click to shrink...

If you want to call down big-names for a Truce violation, they need to have done something besides walk around without actually harming you. I wish you luck with trying to get the Protectorate to give your claims any credence or help you go after them when you can't prove anything.

Or short answer

FYI, failing to be caught in your trap is not a violation of the Truce. That you set a trap at all during an EB fight actually makes you look bad. Just saying.

Click to shrink...

 

[LancerisDead]

That's because she's idiot.
You know, I can call CIA or, I don't know, NSA and ask their help with something. That doesn't mean they will actually help.

...I hate the situation when one did idiotic assumption and it's somehow worked out in the end...

Let's imagine it's 'Mass Effect' crossover, not 'Nanoha'.
Taylor found protean artifact and then contacted Salarians, who lost it. So, STG came to Earth, secretly retrieved their artifact (let's not think what's happened with Taylor), stole a dozen parahumans for study and left several spy satellites to watch Endbringers.
Then they left.
Maybe one day they'll return to try and tame them, or steal additional parahumans.
The end.


Their 'crime' is not trespassing, but going after the cape whose help Triumvirate want.

Click to shrink...

I'm sorry if this comes as harsh, but your argument doesn't really hold water.

It's not a Mass Effect crossover. It's not the STG or an ancient relic that needs collecting, the situation is really different.

As it stands, contacting the TSAB is a great shot at breaking the status quo and getting rid of the Endbringers. Even if Taylor isn't 100% sure that they have the means to help the fact that she has tangible evidence of their existence is enough to make it worth it to at least contact them. Whether they can or not, it's simply too good a possibility to outright refuse.

Denying Earth Bet it's chance at aide and salvation on grounds that Taylor doesn't know for sure if they can or would help is the stupid decision.

 

[Coevus]

Can't we just, ya know, delay the trap? Mention to dragon that we decided to move the radio, and drop more hints after the battle?

Frankly it seems telling the big shots someone's hacking Dragon is a big priority anyways.


For my own two bits regarding the TSAB, we don't 'actually' know anything about them in story. We've got a video call that could be faked, faster than light travel and comms, and that they may have made Perfect Storm. Even if it turns out that they're going to help when they get here, we don't have in-story proof of that.

 

[Silently Watches]

Can't we just, ya know, delay the trap? Mention to dragon that we decided to move the radio, and drop more hints after the battle?

Click to shrink...

Not in the time limit. Or OOC, no, because I like to give alternatives to Endbringer battles that I dislike reading and writing. You don't have to take the alternatives, but they're going to be there.

Frankly it seems telling the big shots someone's hacking Dragon is a big priority anyways.

Click to shrink...

You want to risk how the big shots will take finding out that Dragon is an AI and not a person, go ahead. I don't recall that the Triumvirate actually knew that by this time or not, plus you have all the other people who would find out.

 

[Always Late]

For my own two bits regarding the TSAB, we don't 'actually' know anything about them in story. We've got a video call that could be faked, faster than light travel and comms, and that they may have made Perfect Storm. Even if it turns out that they're going to help when they get here, we don't have in-story proof of that.

Click to shrink...

... for fuck's sake. All of that is wrong, just totally false. And it's shit we've heard before. It was wrong when Shaseyu first posited that, it's still just as wrong now.
A lengthy, in-depth video call can't be faked without something looking artificial. Why would you even think that's possible?
We know what world they're from. We know they did not make Perfect Storm. We know they care about the personal effects of their dead, and would be massively grateful for the retrieval we've done of those. We know they wouldn't take perfect storm due to their own standards to Mages.

Get a clue.

 

[Shaseyu]

It's not a Mass Effect crossover. It's not the STG or an ancient relic that needs collecting, the situation is really different.

Click to shrink...

The situation is exactly the same.
Alien civilization lost dangerous artifact at Earth. Local girl found the artifact, then she found a way to contact aliens. Aliens sent their team to retrieve the artifact.
The only differency is: different aliens means different methods and approaches.

There is no chance to refuse, because that's already happened. Aliens will come and will do what they want.
Taylor and Dragon had a choice to try and prepare Earth to that visit or blindly believe in aliens goodwill and do nothing.
They chose the latter, and that's my problem with them.
I myself would prefer to greet friendly aliens with a gun in hand, just in case, than just hope that they are not malevolent.

We know they did not make Perfect Storm...We know they wouldn't take perfect storm due to their own standards to Mages.

Click to shrink...

And I again want to point that both Taylor and TSAB think that Perfect Storm is a normal Intelligent Device made by TSAB. They are wrong.

 

[Bailey Matutine]

Look, guys, I want to call down hate on Saint too, but the only way this is going to work is if we can spin this as "I stayed home from Behemoth because throwing nukes at his face sounded unproductive, and the Dragonslayers came to my town, found where I was hanging out, and attacked me."

Letting people know it was actually a trap is a bad idea. We need to look as innocent as possible for this.

 

[Silently Watches]

The situation is exactly the same.
Alien civilization lost dangerous artifact at Earth. Local girl found the artifact, then she found a way to contact aliens. Aliens sent their team to retrieve the artifact.
The only differency is: different aliens means different methods and approaches.

There is no chance to refuse, because that's already happened. Aliens will come and will do what they want.
Taylor and Dragon had a choice to try and prepare Earth to that visit or blindly believe in aliens goodwill and do nothing.
They chose the latter, and that's my problem with them.
I myself would prefer to greet friendly aliens with a gun in hand, just in case, than just hope that they are not malevolent.

Click to shrink...

Okay, Shas, don't take this the wrong way, but—

Your opinion is heard. It isn't what the rest of the players wanted. It therefore isn't how I'm going to write the story. DROP. IT.

 

[Shaseyu]

Okay, Shas, don't take this the wrong way, but—

Your opinion is heard. It isn't what the rest of the players wanted. It therefore isn't how I'm going to write the story. DROP. IT.

Click to shrink...

My main concern is that the rest of the players don't really get my opinion, because I'm, apparently, really bad in its explanation.

But the Word of QM is the Law.
o7

 

[Always Late]

My main concern is that the rest of the players don't really get my opinion, because I'm, apparently, really bad in its explanation.

Click to shrink...

You're not bad at explaining yourself. Your opinion is just wrong in this situation.

 

[Silently Watches]

You're not bad at explaining yourself. Your opinion is just wrong in this situation.

Click to shrink...

@Always Late

Enough.
This argument is OVER.

 

[ej190]

I'm personally gonna be voting for the option to stay home and spring the trap, not just because I want to kick Saint's ass, but also because I'm fucking sick of all the endbringer arcs in worm stories/quest.
Skipping an endbringer arc would be so refreshing. Losing an opportunity to learn spells would suck, but those opportunities will come again. And let's face it, that's the only reason we'd even bother with an endbringer attack not hitting our home.
Catching Saint on the other hand will be harder, especially since every second we leave them be is more time for their mages to grow stronger(if they can do so without devices).
My only question is, will we spring this trap by ourselves? We'll be facing Dragon suits and knockoff mages who know most of our strategies...

 

[Viva01]

So....... no one has mentioned anything about the beasties in the sewers in a while they could also act up, ( Or did that get mentioned?)

Also, something to keep in mind, we still have some secret that's undiscovered about Flare Shooter that we would have learned had we used the lethal setting when fighting Lung. Lung was a pyrokenetic... Perhaps the secret is that no one/nothing else can control our shots after we fire them (Lung's Pyrokinesis)? Or perhaps regeneration doesn't work on wounds caused by it?

Click to shrink...

Ugh this is the thing that has me curious if it can effect Behemoth.

Pulling me back to the dark side of going to the EB death battle.

 

[EmperorArthur]

I really wanna camp the warehouse. Even if they manage to overpower us and take the radio, marking them as breakers of the endbringer truce will let us call in a lot of resources to destroy those assholes.

Click to shrink...

I'm in favor of the warehouse as well, but the radio isn't actually there. However, it would be too obvious if we didn't show up. I'd rather have some sort of remote detection thing set up and join the fight. Bail when the warehouse gets attacked. We don't need to stop them, just prove that they broke the truce and have hacked dragon. Maybe an offline magic camera or something.

We intentionally lied to Dragon because we think she's compromised. If they do show up we have 100% proof. Of course, we can't just say it to her or there's a not insignificant chance they'll use their hacks to hurt her. Long term, it's fixable though. Dragon isn't remotely operating her suits. She's running a local copy of herself. So if we get a suit in a faraday cage we can have perfect storm attempt to hack her and fix her.

 

[Always Late]

I'm in favor of the warehouse as well, but the radio isn't actually there. However, it would be too obvious if we didn't show up. I'd rather have some sort of remote detection thing set up and join the fight. Bail when the warehouse gets attacked. We don't need to stop them, just prove that they broke the truce and have hacked dragon. Maybe an offline magic camera or something.

Click to shrink...

If they do show up we have 100% proof.

Click to shrink...

Way late to the discussion, and I'm sorry to say you've missed quite a bit. Cameras are not an option due to time constraints preventing their creation. Truce violations mean nothing because the Dragonslayers aren't parahumans, their mercenary customers don't give a shit about that stuff, and nobody'd listen to us for setting a trap/them walking into a building. And revealing Dragon's AI/compromised nature has tons of nasty consequences.

Long story short, we either go to the Endbringer fight, or we spring the trap on the Dragonslayers. There are no viable alternatives.