Magical Girl Escalation Taylor (Worm/Nanoha)

Faraway-R · May 28, 2017

Bombastus said:
I wasn't part of that discussion, but I considered it. Problem is that Tim is still relatively squishy. If he gets stuck in the recursion field with another flier, there's not much he can do other than cast Strong Shield (a much weaker version than ours). Tim hasn't turned himself into a cyborg, and I don't think he'd be the one wearing the set of Power Armor he already made (since the rest of the Privateers are still squishier than he is).

Tim's Strong Shield can absorb 3x the damage his Hazard Jacket can absorb, which "somewhat reduces incoming damage."

Taylor's Strong shield shield can absorb 5x the damage her Barrier Jacket can absorb, which "greatly reduces incoming damage."

If Tim's Hazard Jacket can absorb 1/2 as much damage as Taylor's Barrier Jacket, then we can model it as

(.5)(3) = 1.5 units of damage prevented.

Taylor's Barrier Jacket would then be:

(1)(5) = 5 units of damage prevented.

This would make Taylor's version over three times more powerful than Tim's version. Of course, this assumes that Tim's Jacket can absorb half as much damage as Taylor's Jacket. If it's lower (say 1/3 damage), then it turns into:

(1/3)(3) = 1 unit of damage prevented
(1)(5) = 5 units of damage prevented

So, five times worse.

Basically, I want to hold off on Tim using Recursion Field until we're sure he won't get BTFO by another flier.

Why Carbon Plating? Frankly, we're probably not going to be able to use it this week unless whatever tinkertech device we're adapting happens to need it. However:

I do want to see what's behind it in the Upgrades branch of the Hardware skill tree.

--------

So it takes five Intelligent Devices to build a Template Intelligent Device. Five sentient, sapient beings. There's some fridge horror for you.

On the subject of Strong Shield. Even if we use the low-ball estimate you have given, here is my counter-argument:
Tim can still survive an RPG direct hit with that. We have seen proof. AND, to add to it, the calculation is NOT, in fact "Strong Shield vs RPG". The proper calculation is "Strong Shield vs RPG, followed up by Hazard Jacket vs mostly-deflected blast from one". So it's not just any Blaster he needs to worry about, it's a Blaster of rating at least 5+, probably more. Who must also be either a flyer experienced in aerial combat, or a marksman who can detect and strike a flying target at a significant distance.

Next, you are misunderstanding the purpose of Recursion Field - unless used offensively, it's meant to remove the non-parahuman combatants for ease of evasive maneuvers. Tim does not need to defeat the flyer in question, if he meets one. He only needs to be able to outmaneuver them, get into a concealed position, and leave. If he lands in an alley just out of sight of a busy street, drops Recursion Field and Hazard Jacket, he becomes just another Joe Average on a busy street.

On the subject of using Tim-made Devices as the raw materials for a Template Device. Nobody says he has to program and activate them, if we're explicit on using them as raw materials. The difference between a sentient, sapient being (if we accept your interpretation) and a set of cloned internal organs for one.

On the subject of people still using the Plan: Week of the Dragon.
It is at the very least outdated in costs (Digital Blueprints costs 1 point, and not two). There's also the fact there's two plans for cashing in additional points.

tygerbright · May 28, 2017

[X] Plan Dragons and Shields
-[X] Build Surgical Suite ( 2 actions)
-[X] Collaborate with Dragon to convert and build one Tinkertech item of her choice (1 action)
-[X] Buy Digital Blueprints (1 point)
-[X] Buy Carbon Fiber Plating (2 points)

LancerisDead · May 28, 2017

So, correct me if I'm wrong @Silently Watches, but can we really write omakes for tech points? Because that would be extremely broken. It works with Calamity Witch because we are building a buffer for when we buy the skill, while Shipwright would get instant benefits. I ask because several people are voting on the assumption that we have four points, not three.

On an entirely unrelated note, if you ever have Cadejo speak I can offer my help with the spanish, though he may end up sounding more argentine, than... wherever he is, actually.

Archeo Lumiere · May 28, 2017

LancerisDead said:
So, correct me if I'm wrong @Silently Watches, but can we really write omakes for tech points? Because that would be extremely broken. It works with Calamity Witch because we are building a buffer for when we buy the skill, while Shipwright would get instant benefits. I ask because several people are voting on the assumption that we have four points, not three.

On an entirely unrelated note, if you ever have Cadejo speak I can offer my help with the spanish, though he may end up sounding more argentine, than... wherever he is, actually.

We can write for tech points, it's been done already.

Silently Watches · May 28, 2017

LancerisDead said:
So, correct me if I'm wrong @Silently Watches, but can we really write omakes for tech points? Because that would be extremely broken. It works with Calamity Witch because we are building a buffer for when we buy the skill, while Shipwright would get instant benefits. I ask because several people are voting on the assumption that we have four points, not three.

Yes, you can. People have been doing so. It's part of the reason some of the skills are so expensive.

SlickRCBD · May 28, 2017

edale said:
BUT, he'll be one of only like 3 Tinkers on the planet that can adapt other thinker's works. A list currently populated by Dragon and Armsmaster... and that's it. (unless I missed something in canon) That's the main reason they're considered the 2 best Tinkers on the planet.

Honestly, if you don't realize how game-changing and downright broken Digital Blueprints is in the Worm universe, I question if you've read the source material.

Think about this.
Here's another potential game breaker: It might be possible to contract with Leet to have him make something they need, then use digital blueprints to reproduce it, allowing them to make virtually anything.
Granted, Leet is a villain, so that is risky, and the main reason the above is not as much of a game breaker as it could be.

Nottheunmaker · May 28, 2017

SlickRCBD said:
Think about this.
Here's another potential game breaker: It might be possible to contract with Leet to have him make something they need, then use digital blueprints to reproduce it, allowing them to make virtually anything.
Granted, Leet is a villain, so that is risky, and the main reason the above is not as much of a game breaker as it could be.

Leet's dead. Bad case of Endbringer.

RoninSword · May 28, 2017

edale said:
BUT, he'll be one of only like 3 Tinkers on the planet that can adapt other thinker's works. A list currently populated by Dragon and Armsmaster... and that's it. (unless I missed something in canon) That's the main reason they're considered the 2 best Tinkers on the planet.

Honestly, if you don't realize how game-changing and downright broken Digital Blueprints is in the Worm universe, I question if you've read the source material.

Pretty sure every tinker can get inspiration from other tinkers work. The difference with Armsmaster and Dragon is that miniaturization/efficiency lends itself really well to rebuilding other tinker works (and then shrinking them down) and Dragon is technically a thinker who's power is reverse engineering, so it comes across as tinker.

SlickRCBD · May 28, 2017

Nottheunmaker said:
Leet's dead. Bad case of Endbringer.

Sorry, I lost track. However, that reminds me of a question I wanted to ask, but felt it was too late since we're WAY past that arc.
What would happen if Phantasm took Calamity Witch back to that other plane/dimension/whatever where we saw Simurgh's true form and unleashed Ragnarok upon it the next time Simurgh shows up?
That question has been bothering me for a while, but I missed the discussion during that time. I joined late.

That said, I have a question about the first page.
Am I reading it right that Calamity Witch has indeed learned Ragnarok, although it is virtually unusable?
It seems a waste of points to learn that at this stage.

If I'm asking too late, I apologize for diverting the topic.

landcollector · May 28, 2017

SlickRCBD said:
Am I reading it right that Calamity Witch has indeed learned Ragnarok, although it is virtually unusable?

It's not totally unusuable. If we don't mind a case of Mana Poisoning, we can cast Recursion Field, pop 10 Cartridges like candy (ie pull a Nanoha), and then cast our City Killer on the designated target. Afterwards of course, we're benched for a while until our Linker Core recovers from the strain.

Always Late · May 28, 2017

SlickRCBD said:
What would happen if Phantasm took Calamity Witch back to that other plane/dimension/whatever where we saw Simurgh's true form and unleashed Ragnarok upon it the next time Simurgh shows up?

Probably not much. Given Endbringer BS durability requiring multiple TSAB capital ship main battery fire to take down, Ragnarok might damage that layer, but we'd probably get hit with one of her escalation tricks in short order.

SlickRCBD said:
That said, I have a question about the first page.
Am I reading it right that Calamity Witch has indeed learned Ragnarok, although it is virtually unusable?
It seems a waste of points to learn that at this stage.

One, Solar Wrath just doesn't cut it when you're a personal target of the Simurgh. And for a long time, we were. Now, we're just another cog in her plan.
Two,

landcollector said:
It's not totally unusuable. If we don't mind a case of Mana Poisoning, we can cast Recursion Field, pop 10 Cartridges like candy (ie pull a Nanoha), and then cast our City Killer on the designated target. Afterwards of course, we're benched for a while until our Linker Core recovers from the strain.

In addition to this, there's just not casting any spells that day. Including Recursion Field. The thing that prevents Ragnarok from killing everyone in the city.
Three, I have expressed some dissatisfaction with the 'safety' label for the requirements in the past, and apparently the standard for all of those conditions is 'you don't die as a result'.

Shaseyu · May 29, 2017

SlickRCBD said:
Am I reading it right that Calamity Witch has indeed learned Ragnarok, although it is virtually unusable?
It seems a waste of points to learn that at this stage.

Yes, it was a waste of point to learn Ragnarok.
But it's the most powerful weapon in our arsenal, our analogue of Nanoha's Starlight Breaker.
Of course people got hyped up, when they saw such a shiny.
Just like right now they get hyped up about Blueprints.

Jakobstj · May 29, 2017

[X] Plan Saving Up
-[X] Build Surgical Suite ( 2 actions)
-[X] Collaborate with Dragon to convert and build one Tinkertech item of her choice (1 action)
Voting for not buying any skills right now so he can get Advanced Devices next time.
Also: Do projects that take 2 actions still only give 1 Tech Point? If they give 2 points, I'll add buying Digital Blueprints or Guardian Beast.

edale · May 29, 2017

Shaseyu said:
Yes, it was a waste of point to learn Ragnarok.
But it's the most powerful weapon in our arsenal, our analogue of Nanoha's Starlight Breaker.
Of course people got hyped up, when they saw such a shiny.
Just like right now they get hyped up about Blueprints.

IIRC we learned Ragnarok before the current skill tree setup was created, so we didn't actually spend a point on it.

And I've been pushing the TinkerTech skill tree since we got Tim a device. My omakes are responsible for more than 1/2 the points invested in that skill branch so far

. Everyone else is just agreeing atm because we're about to meet Dragon and I got the cost down so low

.

Jakobstj said:
Voting for not buying any skills right now so he can get Advanced Devices next time.

I'd rate Off-Site Power to be higher in priority than Advanced Devices.

And for that vote the format would be:

Code:

[X] Save Tech Points.
 
or
 
[X] Don't spend Tech Points

Here's hoping putting that in code brackets keeps the tally program from counting it.

Jakobstj · May 29, 2017

edale said:
I'd rate Off-Site Power to be higher in priority than Advanced Devices.

And for that vote the format would be:

Code:

[X] Save Tech Points.

No. To vote for not using any tech points, we just need to not include spending tech points

Silently Watches said:
As always, if you want to save his tech points, just don't vote to buy any skills in your plan. They don't expire.

edale · May 29, 2017

Jakobstj said:
No. To vote for not using any tech points, we just need to not include spending tech points

Hmm... Maybe I'm not giving the tally program enough credit, but wouldn't that make it hard to tell if points should be spent if only some of the votes have them? Like if there's 51 voters:

20 vote for spending tech points on skill A.
10 vote for spending tech points on skill B.
21 people don't include it in their vote.

I'd imagine in that situation skill A would be learned.

But if those 21 people instead vote to save the tech points, it changes the view of the results entirely.

Jakobstj · May 29, 2017

edale said:
Hmm... Maybe I'm not giving the tally program enough credit, but wouldn't that make it hard to tell if points should be spent if only some of the votes have them? Like if there's 51 voters:

20 vote for spending tech points on skill A.
10 vote for spending tech points on skill B.
21 people don't include it in their vote.

I'd imagine in that situation skill A would be learned.

But if those 21 people instead vote to save the tech points, it changes the view of the results entirely.

We use plan votes. The problem is not there.

Bombastus · May 29, 2017

On the subject of Ragnarok, do we know if powering it through an Internal Reactor isn't one of the safe conditions for using it? There's been but two posts between this thread and the Spacebattles one where "Ragnarok" and "Reactor" were in a post together, and neither address the question.

Would we have to gain the capacity to make internal reactors for ourselves if we wanted to confirm or deny this? Or install one?

Always Late · May 29, 2017

Bombastus said:
On the subject of Ragnarok, do we know if powering it through an Internal Reactor isn't one of the safe conditions for using it? There's been but two posts between this thread and the Spacebattles one where "Ragnarok" and "Reactor" were in a post together, and neither address the question.

Would we have to gain the capacity to make internal reactors for ourselves if we wanted to confirm or deny this? Or install one?

Given how cagey the QM's been... probably unlocking the skill, if that is a condition.

Bombastus · May 29, 2017

Always Late said:
Given how cagey the QM's been... probably unlocking the skill, if that is a condition.

So I was trying to find information about Tertiary templates, but maybe answered my original question instead:

Silently Watches (SB thread) said:
Tyrant's Bane said:

We also get to build the cool stuff that will make us far far more dangerous then any of the other options combined. How would you like to see Taylor in magi-tech power armor, with regenerative nannites, and implanted AI assisted cybernetics? How about drone assisted hard light weaponry? how about the fact that we can make mana batteries and make it so that they don't use our current mana supply. Hell, we could probably make drones that can fire off Solar Wrath.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Let me stop you there before you start expecting too much. No nanites, at least not with cross-training; that's only available to primary Gadgeteers (good guess on that one, by the way). No drones. No AI unless you take a second dose of Gadgeteer at the tertiary class/subclass phase. Nothing will fire Solar Wrath except for you. No using mana batteries to power your own spells; that's cartridges and therefore the Knight's purview, not the Gadgeteer's. Not to mention…

Link to Spacebattles post

It looks like we're going to be limited to cartridges if we want to add power to our spells.

Silently Watches · May 29, 2017

SlickRCBD said:
What would happen if Phantasm took Calamity Witch back to that other plane/dimension/whatever where we saw Simurgh's true form and unleashed Ragnarok upon it the next time Simurgh shows up?
That question has been bothering me for a while, but I missed the discussion during that time. I joined late.

That has not been discussed, but the results would be interesting.

SlickRCBD said:
Am I reading it right that Calamity Witch has indeed learned Ragnarok, although it is virtually unusable?
It seems a waste of points to learn that at this stage.

Ragnarök is quite usable. It's just that with great power comes great ~~responsibility~~ consequence, and I don't trust SV with a nuke without giving them some personal penalties. Now that you have cartridges, you can pop one out and keep on fighting, and the first stage of mana poisoning isn't terrible. It's if you try to use more than one per fight (which not even Nanoha did) that you really start suffering.

Bombastus said:
On the subject of Ragnarok, do we know if powering it through an Internal Reactor isn't one of the safe conditions for using it? There's been but two posts between this thread and the Spacebattles one where "Ragnarok" and "Reactor" were in a post together, and neither address the question.

An internal reactor would not let you cast more Ragnaroks.

veekie · May 29, 2017

Silently Watches said:
It's if you try to use more than one per fight (which not even Nanoha did) that you really start suffering.

2 cartridge ACS boosted ramming 4 cartridge Excelion Buster followed by Starlight Breaker in As final battle.

She was throwing Busters around like they were going out of style...

Then theres Strikers madness.

edale · May 29, 2017

@Silently Watches If we haven't cast a spell at all for the day, could we put 5 cartridges into a Ragnarok, and just be exhausted afterwards (but not pass out), while avoiding mana poisoning?

landcollector · May 29, 2017

edale said:
@Silently Watches If we haven't cast a spell at all for the day, could we put 5 cartridges into a Ragnarok, and just be exhausted afterwards (but not pass out), while avoiding mana poisoning?

I wouldn't think so. Mixing conditions like that seems overly complicated.

MrLZRS · May 29, 2017

[X] Plan Dragons and Shields
-[X] Build Surgical Suite ( 2 actions)
-[X] Collaborate with Dragon to convert and build one Tinkertech item of her choice (1 action)
-[X] Buy Digital Blueprints (1 point)
-[X] Buy Carbon Fiber Plating (2 points)

Magical Girl Escalation Taylor (Worm/Nanoha)

Definitely not a cat

The Prince's Archivist

Professional Stalker

Altman be praised

Sky God

Lacking in coffee, sleep, and brains

Lacking in coffee, sleep, and brains

Professional Stalker

Good Riddance