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Lords of Darkness (WHF CK2-Ish Quest)

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Clay101 said:
Surrender or fealty..... That's a horrible idea. They would backstab us the moment they thought they could get away with it.
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then maybe we should actually you know do shit and make agreements and pacts with them...at least with order gods you can know they will hold up their end of the bargain. especially the dwarves and Elven gods. Unless they are trickster gods, then you have a right to be suspicious of them, otherwise gods are ruled by their first domain, which is how they see the world and their people by.
 
Alucard Vampiry said:
Also about wheter or not a alliance is good against chaos, you must understand that right now you and other gods are less than insects in the eyes of greater gods not even talking about the chaos gods themselves. So a temporary or permanent alliance against chaos is a good thing to do? Well I don't know maybe you should find out.
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And this is the Main Reason why I want to at least try the diplomatic Route. I do NOT like our Chances of standing alone against all four Chaos Gods AND the Golden Tyrant on top of that.
 
Is the Golden Tyrant even a Chaos God? I mean sure he was created the same way the Aeldari made Slaanesh (amalgamation of entire species worth of specific emotion over an extended period of time) but he is literally a God of Order. I just don't see Him being worshipped by followers of Chaos Undivided and would probably be viewed the same way as the Emperor was and not like another Player by the other Four (like Slaanesh was).
 
AlphaOmega said:
Is the Golden Tyrant even a Chaos God? I mean sure he was created the same way the Aeldari made Slaanesh (amalgamation of entire species worth of specific emotion over an extended period of time) but he is literally a God of Order. I just don't see Him being worshipped by followers of Chaos Undivided and would probably be viewed the same way as the Emperor was and not like another Player by the other Four (like Slaanesh was).
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Technically speaking Slaanesh is not a chaos god he/she/it is the eldar god of excess (among other things but mainly excess), the tyrant is basically the same thing he is the human of Tyranny.

The thing that makes both of them part of the chaos pantheon, is how both of them are like in terms of personality, Slaanesh does not need any of saying while the star father takes Tyranny to another level.

The same thing happens to the other gods, Khorne is the god of war that while chaotic can be ordely as well, Nurgle is the god of plagues, disease, and despair his whole modus operandi is causing despair, Tzeentch comes the closest because of what he is, he is plotting againts everyone and everything including himself.

If you want a true god of chaos (or nihilism) the closest thing we have Malal, do you know the term that chaos will always be its own worst enemy Malal is this a thousand times.

Also one more thing while Star Father is related to order he is also the god of Tyranny, which follows the whole domain list of the chaos gods who hold both bad and good aspects, For example: Khorne is the god of war but he is also the god of honor, Tzeentch is the god Schemes, but he is also the god of hope and change ans like TTS Magnus said change can be both good and bad.
 
so,
even just one greater god sees all of the gods as ants, why would us banding together help with that?
the way I see it, we can either try and aly the "good" gods, and suffer from the headache that wuld give us since instead of directly having ppl do what we want we'll first have to convince the dudes, than convince the dudes in charge of said land, who may or may not listen to us, or anything from being corrupt to being chaos corrupt. Or just being ambitious and trying to get more benefits for himself at the expense of everything else. This would lead to us trying to either kill or try t get him to abdicate (good luck with that) ,all while constantly reasuring whichever god that dude is in charge of that no, we're not trying to subvert your stuff. Anyone notice the amount of shitty actions we would have to take? and how often a fail(or god forbid a crit fail) could be really annoying?
on the other hand, with us taking stuff under our own control, we just tell ppl what we want done, and any (extremely rare since we pretty much clean house everywhere we move) dissidents get their head chopped off. Easy quick and with the benefit of having millions of ppl under our sphere. All we need to do to get mil of ppl is -
-take as much land as feasible
-study fertility rituals/tech up on medicine/tell ppl having 7 children is their holy duty/throw monies at the problem
each of those things would baloon our pop like crazy, but to get the best result we need to take as many places with "order" pops under control (dwarf/human/elf/vampire).
If anything total conquest would mean extermination to all troublesome pests, by virtue of us neighboring them and throwing dead bodies at them till it's clean.
Besides, if we want allies we can get them from other dimensions, or make our own pantheon(with blacjack and hookers).
 
why dont we capture then through orcs in the chaos wastes ?that would buy us time to build the forces of order from major invasions and have a first line of defense?
orcs get fight we get peace to build up and clear ut the beastnen and skaven and dawi zahr.
 
asonia said:
so,
even just one greater god sees all of the gods as ants, why would us banding together help with that?
the way I see it, we can either try and aly the "good" gods, and suffer from the headache that wuld give us since instead of directly having ppl do what we want we'll first have to convince the dudes, than convince the dudes in charge of said land, who may or may not listen to us, or anything from being corrupt to being chaos corrupt. Or just being ambitious and trying to get more benefits for himself at the expense of everything else. This would lead to us trying to either kill or try t get him to abdicate (good luck with that) ,all while constantly reasuring whichever god that dude is in charge of that no, we're not trying to subvert your stuff. Anyone notice the amount of shitty actions we would have to take? and how often a fail(or god forbid a crit fail) could be really annoying?
on the other hand, with us taking stuff under our own control, we just tell ppl what we want done, and any (extremely rare since we pretty much clean house everywhere we move) dissidents get their head chopped off. Easy quick and with the benefit of having millions of ppl under our sphere. All we need to do to get mil of ppl is -
-take as much land as feasible
-study fertility rituals/tech up on medicine/tell ppl having 7 children is their holy duty/throw monies at the problem
each of those things would baloon our pop like crazy, but to get the best result we need to take as many places with "order" pops under control (dwarf/human/elf/vampire).
If anything total conquest would mean extermination to all troublesome pests, by virtue of us neighboring them and throwing dead bodies at them till it's clean.
Besides, if we want allies we can get them from other dimensions, or make our own pantheon(with blacjack and hookers).
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Well, fine, then we'll just have to agree to disagree. I know what I want and I'm gonna vote for it.

And besides, we have to actually make contact with the other Gods before we can accurately determine what we can do regarding them.
 
Also, my Main Point for at least TRYING Diplomacy from a pragmatic is this: If we only fight against the other Order Gods, we will come out weakened too, even if we win, which is not guaranteed. And then the Chaos Gods are gonna use the Opportunity to stomp us while laughing at us for our Idiocy.

Worst Case Scenario, admittedly, but I'm not willing to risk it.
 
Alexander Sturnn said:
Also, my Main Point for at least TRYING Diplomacy from a pragmatic is this: If we only fight against the other Order Gods, we will come out weakened too, even if we win, which is not guaranteed. And then the Chaos Gods are gonna use the Opportunity to stomp us while laughing at us for our Idiocy.

Worst Case Scenario, admittedly, but I'm not willing to risk it.
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No, we actually come out stronger. By a lot. We take their domains when we kill them so we instantly become stronger like that. If you mean our armies that is also untrue since we would gain a lot more by raising the undead of their lands. If your worried about us not being strong enough to take on some of them all we need to do is go after the weaker ones first. It's already been said we are in the top ten and it doesn't take that long to figure out who is above and below us.

Also the chaos gods don't need an opportunity to stomp on us, just one of them could stomp on all the gods in fantasy combined.

I remember someone said that fighting against the other Kingdoms would cause strife that would make the chaos gods stronger. Guess what allying with the other gods would do. Humanity and the other races aren't going to like being allied with someone who desecrates their families corpses when it's convenient for him so you can expect rebellions and all that. Conquering on the other hand is quick and we stamp out anyone who opposes us as shown in the previous war turns.
RandomDwarf said:
.at least with order gods you can know they will hold up their end of the bargain. especially the dwarves and Elven gods. Unless they are trickster gods, then you have a right to be suspicious of them, otherwise gods are ruled by their first domain, which is how they see the world and their people by.
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This is just flat out untrue. Everyone is capable of lies and tricks. The lady or rather lileath is an example of that. We also have the domain of dragons and knowledge so by that logic we shouldn't even be thinking of allies and should instead be conquering everything in order to take their knowledge. (Dragon pride and greed+ a lust for knowledge)
Mr. Idiot said:
They can try, yeah.
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Whenyouseeyou said:
And they will fail hard
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Why do you want to ally with them then. If they are so weak we can easily take care of them if they become a problem what use are they against chaos...
 
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Comic616 said:
No, we actually come out stronger. By a lot. We take their domains when we kill them so we instantly become stronger like that. If you mean our armies that is also untrue since we would gain a lot more by raising the undead of their lands. If your worried about us not being strong enough to take on some of them all we need to do is go after the weaker ones first. It's already been said we are in the top ten and it doesn't take that long to figure out who is above and below us.

Also the chaos gods don't need an opportunity to stomp on us, just one of them could stomp on all the gods in fantasy combined.

I remember someone said that fighting against the other Kingdoms would cause strife that would make the chaos gods stronger. Guess what allying with the other gods would do. Humanity and the other races aren't going to like being allied with someone who desecrates their families corpses when it's convenient for him so you can expect rebellions and all that. Conquering on the other hand is quick and we stamp out anyone who opposes us as shown in the previous war turns.

This is just flat out untrue. Everyone is capable of lies and tricks. The lady or rather lileath is an example of that. We also have the domain of dragons and knowledge so by that logic we shouldn't even be thinking of allies and should instead be conquering everything in order to take their knowledge. (Dragon pride and greed+ a lust for knowledge)


Why do you want to ally with them then. If they are so weak we can easily take care of them if they become a problem what use are they against chaos...
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Okay, from a purely narrative Perspective, I want to at least TRY the Alliance Route because I believe it's MUCH more interesting then just going the 'kill everyone who isn't us'-Route, which I consider boring as hell. The prospect of exploring the various Dynamics between us and other God-Characters is just much more interesting to me then to simply kill them all.
 
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Comic616 said:
No, we actually come out stronger. By a lot. We take their domains when we kill them so we instantly become stronger like that. If you mean our armies that is also untrue since we would gain a lot more by raising the undead of their lands. If your worried about us not being strong enough to take on some of them all we need to do is go after the weaker ones first. It's already been said we are in the top ten and it doesn't take that long to figure out who is above and below us.

Also the chaos gods don't need an opportunity to stomp on us, just one of them could stomp on all the gods in fantasy combined.

I remember someone said that fighting against the other Kingdoms would cause strife that would make the chaos gods stronger. Guess what allying with the other gods would do. Humanity and the other races aren't going to like being allied with someone who desecrates their families corpses when it's convenient for him so you can expect rebellions and all that. Conquering on the other hand is quick and we stamp out anyone who opposes us as shown in the previous war turns.

This is just flat out untrue. Everyone is capable of lies and tricks. The lady or rather lileath is an example of that. We also have the domain of dragons and knowledge so by that logic we shouldn't even be thinking of allies and should instead be conquering everything in order to take their knowledge. (Dragon pride and greed+ a lust for knowledge)


Why do you want to ally with them then. If they are so weak we can easily take care of them if they become a problem what use are they against chaos...
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Didn't slannesh gorge it's self on all the elves souls in the end times to the point where they couldn't move wouldn't that happen to us if we're wiping out an entire pantheon
 
Drock2cool said:
Didn't slannesh gorge it's self on all the elves souls in the end times to the point where they couldn't move wouldn't that happen to us if we're wiping out an entire pantheon
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No, it wouldn't. We aren't taking their souls just their domains/powers. As far as I know that is all that has been said. Nothing about their souls has come up.
I also haven't heard about slannesh not being able to move, when exactly did this happen?
Alexander Sturnn said:
Okay, from a purely narrative Perspective, I want to at least TRY the Alliance Route because I believe it's MUCH more interesting then just going the 'kill everyone who isn't us'-Route, which I consider boring as hell. The prospect of exploring the various Dynamics between us and other God-Characters is just much more interesting to me then to simply kill them all.
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Meh, I'm okay with allying with some of them. Just not the bigger ones like the empire's gods because I think we need their population to worship us if we want to stand a chance.
 
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I guess in the end it boils down to a narative preference? as in order guys team up , powah of friendship etc, vs actual efficiency and wanting to get out of the danger zone asap.
We don't actually need to all agree on one set path btw, if the votes go the way of friendship and teaming up, that's fine. Same if it goes any other way.Not having the quest go the exact way I want ads more to the charm of questing imo.
 
asonia said:
pretty sure efficient means fastest? not native english here. obviously there are lots of ways to acomplish whatever we end up voting for. I'm sorry for confusing this I guess. o.o
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It does mean the fastest way or if you want to be more exact the definition of Efficient is achieving maximum productivity with minimum wasted effort or expense. So your right in saying conquering would be the most efficient since trying to make allies that have populations that hate us would take a lot more work.
 
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Mr. Idiot said:
Why not use magically binding oaths?

Or otherwise magic forms of control?
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u mean on the gods? cause I'm not sure we can, or even want to.
don't see why we'd need this for peasents, maybe something like focused propaganda? in that we have all the ppl that remember other gods forbidden from even mentioning them, and obligated to at the very least introduce worship of Dracul( and said benefits).
 
Mr. Idiot said:
Why not use magically binding oaths?

Or otherwise magic forms of control?
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If you could get these divine beings to agree to take the oath without a show of force that would work. If they are forced into it that is just slavery. Either way I highly doubt you could get gods to agree to it, and thats assuming the oaths would even work on them as well.
 
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