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Lords of Darkness (WHF CK2-Ish Quest)

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Rakaziel said:
I am not sure if sabotaging Brettonia to such a degree is really a good idea.
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I'm pretty sure that we're going to have to fight Bretonnia eventually because of what happened with Merovech, so I'd rather take advantage of much of Bretonnia's army being away on the Errantry War to draw it out and cause more chaos that we can take advantage of.
 
Derek58 said:
I'm pretty sure that we're going to have to fight Bretonnia eventually because of what happened with Merovech, so I'd rather take advantage of much of Bretonnia's army being away on the Errantry War to draw it out and cause more chaos that we can take advantage of.
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Leaving aside that we need the rest of Bretonnia as a shield against outside enemies (as evidenced by the current situation) there is also a risk of a crit fail and us (and worse, our sabotage) being found out. If all goes wrong, we will have to flee to Estalia.
 
Rakaziel said:
Leaving aside that we need the rest of Bretonnia as a shield against outside enemies (as evidenced by the current situation) there is also a risk of a crit fail and us (and worse, our sabotage) being found out. If all goes wrong, we will have to flee to Estalia.
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That's a risk that I'm willing to take to extend the Errantry War and cause more chaos that we can benefit from.

Make a different plan if you want to be less aggressive with our Intrigue actions.
 
Rakaziel said:
I am not sure if sabotaging Brettonia to such a degree is really a good idea.
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Derek58 said:
I'm pretty sure that we're going to have to fight Bretonnia eventually because of what happened with Merovech, so I'd rather take advantage of much of Bretonnia's army being away on the Errantry War to draw it out and cause more chaos that we can take advantage of.
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On the other hand I thought that Incite Rebellions would synergize well with Release Information.... but since scandals of the Nobility affect only the interests of the Nobility, the release of the Info may work better with fucking with the morale of the Errantry War.
 
Going to put up a counterplan, try to stir up some discussion.


[X] Plan: UNLIMITED POWAH...Within Reason

[X] Gather The Undead of Mousillon: While you have gathered thousands of undead there are still thousands more out there in the darkness of Mousillon, and as its ruler, it is only natural for they serve you in death while they could not in life. DC 35
Cost: 0
Time: 1 Turn
Rewards: Gains New Undead
(OOC: Our armies need to be larger, and this will also reduce the "wild" dark horrors, indirectly improving our living population's lives.)

[X] Gather The Beasts of Mousillon: Mousillon not only holds undead, dark beasts such as direwolves, vargheists, ghouls and many more inhabit the shadow lands of Mousillon. DC 40
Cost: 0
Time: 1 Turn
Rewards: Gains Beast Army
(OOC: Who doesn't love huge monsters?)

[X] Build Grave Guard Watchtower: Watchtowers and walls are build in your capital to better defend it against potential invaders. DC 45
Cost: 1,000
Time: 2 Turns
Rewards: Adds walls to Capital. Rose gains +10 bonus to defense rolls.
(OOC: Pile on the defensive bonuses! Once our capital is properly fortified, I feel we can begin reaching out to the other regions, but proper walls are a must.)

[X] Start a propaganda campaign: Start a propaganda campaign to favor of vampires and magicians in a better light. DC 25
Cost: 50
Time: 3 Turns
Rewards: Humans now see vampires and magicians in a better perspective.
(OOC: Good idea, laying groundwork down. I want to drop the DC for revealing ourselves as much as possible before we actually do it.)

[X] Trade Talks with the merchants: The merchants which settled here know a lot about the trade routes of Brettonia and with the right things done they can set up trades that officially speaking that can't have any traces towards you. Diplomacy DC 20; Intrigue DC 25
Cost: 50
Time: 1 Turn
Rewards: Gain +100 (Secret) Trade income.
(OOC: More income is always good.)

[X] 3rd Diplo action unused
(OOC: Revealing us as a vfamp before we get all the helping bonuses in is foolhardy.)

[X] Forester's Shack: There is a surprising amount of forests around Mousillon, setting up forester's around them would definitely help with the growing economy.
Cost: 600
Time: 1 Turn
Expenses: 100
Rewards: +100 Income
(OOC: Need wood to build a lot of infrastructure, which we aim to do. Also clears out more land for more settlements, or for existing ones to grow larger.)

[X] Hygiene: Reintroducing the concepts and buildings of hygiene will help lessening the chances of plagues and diseases happening in your villages. DC 5
Cost: 45
Time: 1 Turn
Rewards: Less chances of plague and diseases
(OOC: Its a small thing, but our people loving us will mean they will obey. And its a good prelude to building actual infrastructure to help with this.)

[X] Hills: The hills of Mousillon are said to have rich mineral wealth, you need to see if that is true. DC 10
Cost: 0
Time: 1 Turn
Rewards: A mineral survey of the hills
(OOC: Now we need to do some serious investigations and find out what exactly we have to work with in our province. This will begin our long journey towards self-sufficiency.)

[X] Expand Spy Network (Empires of Man): Expanding your spy network towards the empire will definitely be useful as you don't know what is happening in there and you could pull some strings in there. DC 25
Cost: 0
Time: 1 Turn
Rewards: Gains Empire('s) Rumour Mill. Spy Network in the empires.
(OOC: Extending outwards into other areas is a very good idea, especially the Empire as they know how to fight vamps very well.)

[X] Sabotage The Defenders: The token defense force left by the king to protect his kingdom are doing a truly good job, they may actually win now that the grail knights are helping them this must not happen, the chaos generated by this conflict is giving much room to think, so it must continue.
Cost: 0
Time: 1 Turn
Rewards: Defense of Brettonia returned to previous stalemate in the fighting zones.
(OOC: No DC, so hopefully this is a given. Also needs to be done.)

[X] Reveal Your Information: The information that your gathered about the dukes of Borderlaux, Aquitaine and Bastonne can cause a huge amount of chaos if revealed at the right moment. DC 35
Cost: 0
Time: 1 Turn
Rewards: Secret information Revealed to the right people.
(OOC: Sowing political havoc will do more damage than just a raw kill count. It also has the people questioning their leadership, which will have longterm effects which we can exploit.)

[X] Raise Newly Dead: A single-word boon, spoken during the ritual, will harden the skin of corpses as they jerk back to life. DC 31
Cost: 0
Time: 1 Turn
Rewards: +10 bonus to zombies.

[X] Rotten Gift: The decayed flesh and bone material of the zombies harden, transforming their flesh and bone into some kind biological armor. DC 37
Cost: 0
Time: 1 Turn
Rewards: +10 bonus to zombies.

[X] Defiler of Barrows: defiling the barrows - reveals secrets that can prolong the term of the ancient risen. DC 40
Cost: 0
Time: 1 Turn
Rewards: +10 bonus to skeleton troops
(OOC: ALL THE BONUSES! These 3 bonuses make our existing undead, the backbone of it, very potent indeed. I'd rather make sure they are top notch before recruiting too many new types of units.)

[X] Learn The Art of Diplomacy: while you certainly can hold your ground in a debate, learning more is never bad. DC 30
Rewards: Depends on roll.
(OOC: This will help not only expand our Diplo actions hopefully, but also keep our very high local reputation high for longer.)

[X] Learn Statecraft: Now that you hold a duchy you must learn how to run one. DC 10
Rewards: Depends on roll
(OOC: Running a kingdom is hard, we need to get better at it.)

[X] Learn Shadow Magic: Ulgu the lore of shadows is perhaps the most dangerous magic in the world after all how can you fight against your own shadow. DC 50
Rewards: Learns Lore of Shadows.
(OOC: We do need to begin branching out into Shadow Magic, so this starts the process.)


So...yeah. Explanations for everything above.
 
I also updated that infrastructure list from before, added a lot of possible actions for our living soldiers, and added Intrigue and Stewardship actions as well.

Infrastructure Problems

This is more a list of infrastructure we need to build, or to research to build later. Its an expansion on my prior comments on what to use that 20k gold on.


Military

(Living) Barracks: Soldiers need a place to stay while training.
(Living) Training Fields: Soldiers need proper facilities to trian in.
(Living) Stables: Horses are very useful in this time period, in war and in peace.
(Living) Archery Workshops: Unlocks production of composite bows and eventually crossbows (with research).
(Living) Siege Workshops: Unlocks production of siege weapons such as Arbalests, Catapults, and Trebuchets.

(Living) Academy: Officers need to be properly trained in an established school of higher learning specifically designed for the task. Unlocks higher tactical and strategic training for living soldiers.
- Flag Signals: Using flags to improve coordination between various moving army elements will help large armies move much more smoothly, and enable coordinated assaults across large distances. +5 to all living forces combat rolls, possibility of ambushes and large-scale feints unlocked.
- Drums: Using drums or other musical instruments to keep a steady march across long distances is vital to ensuring that formations are kept together, ensuring a more powerful striking force on contact with the enemy. +5 to all living forces combat rolls.

Border Fortifications, Patrols: We need to fortify Mousillon's borders properly or restore what is there. This would include establishing patrols and building sentry towers inside our lands as well.
- Signal Towers (Prereq Border Fortifications, Patrols): Specialist towers can be built, garrisoned by living or undead troops, which can light fires or use polished bronze mirrors in daylight to send predetermined simple messages across vast distances. This would prove quite useful in transmitting high-priority messages across vast distances quickly, as messages can be chained from one tower to the next.

(Military) Couriers: Hmm...establishing an undead version of the Pony Express, only with more intelligent undead warriors and undead horses?

Coastal Defenses: Also building improved/enlarged coastal defenses is a good idea.
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I figured more fleshing out of our living forces is needed, as most undead are...kind of dumb, from what I've read. Living soldiers provide intelligent forces that can make vital battlefield decisions, extending our reach beyond what we can do as an individual.

Diplomacy:

Trained Diplomats: Always better to have full-time professionals in charge of this than nobles who won their position by bribes or favors.

Diplomatic Staff: Actually full time staff to help run diplomatic operations is a good idea too.

Diplomatic Department: Gosh, an organization that can reach potentially worldwide (or most of it)? Useful!
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This is the same.

Stewardship

Roads: We need to restore our roads (ideally to Dwarf quality, but even with undead labor we can move quickly with making human quality roads).

Mines: Getting those mines up is critical for expanding our available blacksmiths and industry, which we'll need once the world realizes Mousillon is rapidly strengthening we'll have multiple nations at war with us bc everybody hates vampires.

Blacksmith: Encouraging blacksmiths to not only establish their trade in Mousillon, but also taking the ones already here and providing them with funding to either improve their tools or expand their training, is a great idea. Boosts civilian trade, improves quality of life. Unlocks Smith variant types.
- Armorsmiths: Unlocks higher-end armor production such as half-plate and full plate armor.
- Weaponsmiths: Unlocks production of higher-quality weapons.

(Civilian) Couriers: Hmm...establishing an undead version of the Pony Express, only with more intelligent undead warriors and undead horses?

Naval Trade/Infrastructure: Getting proper dockyards, improved harbors, seaports, warehouses, and distribution centers for expanded maritime trade would be a good idea.
- Larger Harbors/Docks: Taking existing docks and harbors and expanding them is a good idea. More room for trade means traders have room.
- Dedicated Warehouses and Supply Depots: Taking a page from military thinking, establishing supply depots for shipments of supplies across Mousillon would not only enable the shipment of larger amounts of goods in a faster manner, but would have noticeable military benefits as well.

Hospitals/Healthcare: Proper hospitals and clinics of some kind!

Sewers/Hygiene: Actual sewers and mass hygiene, like the Imperial cities have! And maybe bathrooms, gods forbid! Or at least communal baths and washing facilities!
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Added a fair bit more here, with emphasizing blacksmith variants and more naval options.

Learning:

Basic Schools: Ideally we would establish some minimal level of schools so our people are more educated and overall capable.

Research (Living):
- Medical Kits: Living soldiers need to be patched up during battle, unlike undead. Provide medical kits with basic supplies such as bandages, very high grade alcohol to numb pain, and a variety of really sharp knives to help keep our living soldiers alive for longer. No use in wasting talent before its time, right? -10% campaign casualties.
- Combat Healers: Ensure that those individuals with some level of talent in the healing arts get basic training and are distributed throughout the army to provide aid on the battlefield. -20% campaign casualties.
- Crossbows: The Empire has them, Tilea and Estalia have them, and Kislev has them. ...Why don't we, again? Gets us access and production of crossbows for living and undead troops. Unlocks: Crossbow Formations.
-- Storm Shields: Taking note from elite Tilean mercenaries, Storm Shields are large shields carried by a soldier that crossbowmen can cluster behind for protection during reloading. Get our largest guys to carry these around, and there's protection for our ranged soldiers covered.
- Caltrops: Spiky steel objects, they always fall with a pointy bit straight up due to their design. Considering all of Brettonia is Mousillon's future enemy, perhaps investing in anti-cavalry devices and such is a good idea?
- Pikes: VERY long spears, essentially, they require training in group formations to utilize properly. Very good against cavalry, however. Unlocks: Pike Formations
- Greatswords: The Empire has them, and they obviously effective against all manner of superpowered opponents. Considering Grail Knights are a thing against our future enemy, perhaps getting these high-quality swords on our side, and people trained in their use, is a good idea? Unlocks: Greatsword Formations. Undead elites armed with Greatswords.
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We need more research options that aren't based around undead or magic, honestly. And lots of this stuff can be used to outfit our undead with improved weapons just as much as living troops.

Piety:

Churches?: Oddly enough, building more churches for the common people is a good idea, keep our cover up, and we can certainly afford it now.
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Same, but the disadvantages of this have already been pointed out.

Intrigue:

Training Facility: Spies and foreign agents need to be trained for maximum effect, after all.
Exotic Goods: The needed equipment for higher-end operations such as assassinations can be both subtle and hard to buy on the open markets, for obvious reasons. Reaching out and ensuring our agents are outfitted with their tools (or weapons) of the trade is essential to their dedication to the highest service.
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Thought some elite spy/agent stuff would be a good idea. Simple ideas, but feasible even with this time period.
 
avatar11792 said:
I also updated that infrastructure list from before, added a lot of possible actions for our living soldiers, and added Intrigue and Stewardship actions as well.


I figured more fleshing out of our living forces is needed, as most undead are...kind of dumb, from what I've read. Living soldiers provide intelligent forces that can make vital battlefield decisions, extending our reach beyond what we can do as an individual.


This is the same.


Added a fair bit more here, with emphasizing blacksmith variants and more naval options.


We need more research options that aren't based around undead or magic, honestly. And lots of this stuff can be used to outfit our undead with improved weapons just as much as living troops.


Same, but the disadvantages of this have already been pointed out.


Thought some elite spy/agent stuff would be a good idea. Simple ideas, but feasible even with this time period.
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The majority of these ideas shall appear next turn, while others shall be implemented on a latter date, thank you for this I really appreciate all help you guys can give me.
 
soooo, i know it hasn't really come up yet and we're still far too weak/unequipped to pull it off, but are we going to try and get rid of the blood thirst by slaying and drinking the blood of a dragon eventually? (which also has the benefit of keeping us somewhat saner over time...)

On another note i personally also like the idea of bettering our living minions since they're the ones who are realistically going to be used the most... (whilst we're keeping the whole vampire/undead thing a secret and all that)

and lastly @Alucard vampiry the only reference i found to vampires actually being weak to all holy relics is from WHFRP 2e (the RP books aren't really good at keeping things canon, often for gameplay and balancing reasons, in addition to GW just being contradictory as usual) and even there it's more about actual divine essence/belief than the symbols themselves

Religious Symbols The power of belief is quite strong in the Old World, and mortals who present icons and symbols of their Gods can sometimes repel Vampires. A Vampire that is vulnerable to such items must succeed on a Will Power Test to close within 2 yards (1 square) of a person presenting a religious symbol. As well, they must succeed on a Hard (–20%) Will Power Test to enter a temple or grasp a religious icon. The GM may modify this test depending on the strength of faith of the temple's believers or the icon's wielder.
and:
Signs of the Gods The power of priests can create a force against creatures of magic and the Aethyr, and this also seems to have power over the unnatural Vampires. But a symbol wielded by an unbeliever is useless—it must be accompanied by faith. The stronger the faith, the more power the wielder can have over the Vampire. Likewise, only the blessing of a true and faithful priest will cause a blade to act like silver, and a temple or shrine will only prevent a Vampire from entering if it is given dutiful worship by a faithful congregation. Gardens of Morr in disrepair are more often havens for Vampires than fortresses against them, and many Vampire hunters have perished with false relics in their hands. Even a strong faith is no guarantee. Vampires are creatures of incredible will, the kind of will that can cause even the most devout priest to doubt his conviction. The older the Vampire, the stronger he is and the less reliable are these wards—and some Vampires are, as with all the curses, simply immune. The exception is when Vampires are themselves faithful or were when they were mortal. For these unfortunates, the power of the Gods is much harder to dismiss and has a great hold upon them. The few cases where this has happened, where a monastic Vampire has feared the wrath of his own once-worshipped God, have no doubt given birth to the myth of the symbol's effectiveness
So, are you playing it as a weakness to all symbols or just to the channeled belief of the faithful? and what about all the other weaknesses vampires have (including the whole insanity)?
 
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emberwing said:
soooo, i know it hasn't really come up yet and we're still far too weak/unequipped to pull it off, but are we going to try and get rid of the blood thirst by slaying and drinking the blood of a dragon eventually? (which also has the benefit of keeping us somewhat saner over time...)

On another note i personally also like the idea of bettering our living minions since they're the ones who are realistically going to be used the most... (whilst we're keeping the whole vampire/undead thing a secret and all that)

and lastly @Alucard vampiry the only reference i found to vampires actually being weak to all holy relics is from WHFRP 2e (the RP books aren't really good at keeping things canon, often for gameplay and balancing reasons, in addition to GW just being contradictory as usual) and even there it's more about actual divine essence/belief than the symbols themselves

Religious Symbols The power of belief is quite strong in the Old World, and mortals who present icons and symbols of their Gods can sometimes repel Vampires. A Vampire that is vulnerable to such items must succeed on a Will Power Test to close within 2 yards (1 square) of a person presenting a religious symbol. As well, they must succeed on a Hard (–20%) Will Power Test to enter a temple or grasp a religious icon. The GM may modify this test depending on the strength of faith of the temple's believers or the icon's wielder.
and:
Signs of the Gods The power of priests can create a force against creatures of magic and the Aethyr, and this also seems to have power over the unnatural Vampires. But a symbol wielded by an unbeliever is useless—it must be accompanied by faith. The stronger the faith, the more power the wielder can have over the Vampire. Likewise, only the blessing of a true and faithful priest will cause a blade to act like silver, and a temple or shrine will only prevent a Vampire from entering if it is given dutiful worship by a faithful congregation. Gardens of Morr in disrepair are more often havens for Vampires than fortresses against them, and many Vampire hunters have perished with false relics in their hands. Even a strong faith is no guarantee. Vampires are creatures of incredible will, the kind of will that can cause even the most devout priest to doubt his conviction. The older the Vampire, the stronger he is and the less reliable are these wards—and some Vampires are, as with all the curses, simply immune. The exception is when Vampires are themselves faithful or were when they were mortal. For these unfortunates, the power of the Gods is much harder to dismiss and has a great hold upon them. The few cases where this has happened, where a monastic Vampire has feared the wrath of his own once-worshipped God, have no doubt given birth to the myth of the symbol's effectiveness
So, are you playing it as a weakness to all symbols or just to the channeled belief of the faithful? and what about all the other weaknesses vampires have (including the whole insanity)?
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  1. Yes all vampires can attempt to do the same act the founder of the blood dragons did, I always saw that was something of the final steps of the vampire evolution, many do not know this or simply forgot about that. The serum which turned humans into the first vampires is actually imperfect, the transformation of a vampire is not only spiritual and physical it also psychological as well as it effects their souls this is the part where the imperfection of the serum comes about the insanity seem in vampires is because of the imperfection seen in its components, draining high magical creatures can help counteract this effect as the founder of blood dragons discovered it. The thirst for blood and all the other oddities seem in vampires also come from the imperfect parts of the serum.
  2. The canon surrounding vampires and all the rest of factions are pretty fucked you have the pick the cannon you like. About holy energy and vampires the vampires could have actually worshipped 'holy powers' (this includes chaos) they can't do it now because they were cursed with their traditional weaknesses by Nagash himself after a particular disastrous battle, Nagash cursed them with their weaknesses seen in warhammer this includes a weakness and to suffer damage in simple acts such as speaking against anything considered to be holy.
 
avatar11792 said:
[X] 3rd Diplo action unused
(OOC: Revealing us as a vfamp before we get all the helping bonuses in is foolhardy.)
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What helping bonuses are you talking about? And taking a DC 10 action to reveal ourselves to just the people in Mousilion, who like us so much it borders on religious worship, doesn't sound foolhardy to me.
 
avatar11792 said:
[X] Expand Spy Network (Empires of Man): Expanding your spy network towards the empire will definitely be useful as you don't know what is happening in there and you could pull some strings in there. DC 25
Cost: 0
Time: 1 Turn
Rewards: Gains Empire('s) Rumour Mill. Spy Network in the empires.
(OOC: Extending outwards into other areas is a very good idea, especially the Empire as they know how to fight vamps very well.)
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Also I feel that expanding our spy network outside of Bretonnia can wait a turn, the action to draw out the Errantry War further is much more important important imo. That's more turns the Bretonnian military is away from home.
 
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