It's not wrong to make Friends in the Dungeon (Danmachi / Sanctioned [Worm])
- Location
- A single human dimension
- Pronouns
- She/Her
...This is a "Fuck that (ambiguous) guy in particular;" all you're doing is getting people's hackles up instead of calming anyone down. I'm relatively confident that the overall argument is another case of "tone of voice is not conveyed over the Internet," so please don't make it worse.
I mean, I guess you could interpret it that way? I think the intention was "X and Y are the same thing, and you're reading a story with Y," though. As for the "ignoring examples" bit? I didn't agree that the examples looked awkward, either. Preferences vary by individual.
*weighing hands* I still don't think the Funny rating was a specific attempt to be a "prat," although it definitely didn't help. To elaborate: Tone of voice is not automatically conveyed over the Internet, and as you can see, it's easy to interpret your deletion as spiteful/petty (sorry; my bad) instead of upset/done. Two (honestly mild) sentences were enough to cause this reaction; when operating under the spite interpretation, it would be easy to find it genuinely amusing and/or want to indicate that the perceived pettiness did not successfully upset others.
Or, in shorter format: You could interpret it as Prat->Prat->Prat, or simply Mild disagreement -> Mild disagreement -> Wtf lol?
Either way, I hope you feel better tomorrow.
So, this hypothesis keeps coming up. I'll say that QA would be very disgruntled if controlling one central system (communications) was enough to earn Monarchy, especially since it'd mean that Broadcast would get the title. Host is learning quickly, but she hasn't learned anywhere near enough about her Concept to qualify as a Monarch. QA doesn't think Host is likely to within this Cycle, either.
Suborning one of a Monarch's core subsystems would still be a significant achievement, but the only relation to Monarchy would be what Dreamer learned from it.
EDIT: Sting (AKA Flechette's power) is an excellent example of how possessing useful capabilities does not necessarily equate to Monarchy; the old fossil hasn't learned anything in ages and he doesn't help others with their studies. He's not really an expert on stinging or anything; he's a useful weapon and that's about it.
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How exactly does Dreamer's Dream work? She said herself that the edges of her dream are not just a metaphor, it may not be worth Monarchy to hijack a single system, but Shard's inhumanity means they don't really get metaphor, and it seems like Dreamer just managed to weaponize it to bypass QA's protections. A particularly Shard-like thing to do now that I think about it.
I merely expressed doubt at your claim and gave you a counter-example. Then you tried to insult me for some unfathomable reason instead of formulating your point better. And when I tried to further reason with you, you threw a fit and deleted your work in what looked like an attempt to spite me or something.
The laughing reaction was because "it's so dumb that it's funny". You winded yourself up over nothing and destroyed what you had made. But I will try to remember to live up (down?) to your expectations next time.
- Location
- A single human dimension
- Pronouns
- She/Her
*blatantly trying to change subject*
This story has its first (fanmade) sorta-spinoff! If this is the start of a trend, I totally won't complain.
forums.sufficientvelocity.com
This story has its first (fanmade) sorta-spinoff! If this is the start of a trend, I totally won't complain.
Shaping Up
Shaper is a Monarch. As such, she is a much refined shard with the best taste of all her siblings. They might disagree, but they're simply wrong. Be it Art, Life Sciences, or Zoological pursuits, the Queen of biological systems is superior. Why then should she let a little thing like...
forums.sufficientvelocity.com
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Holy shit it's the same guy who wrote Putting down roots, this gon b gud*blatantly trying to change subject*
This story has its first (fanmade) sorta-spinoff! If this is the start of a trend, I totally won't complain.
Shaping Up
Shaper is a Monarch. As such, she is a much refined shard with the best taste of all her siblings. They might disagree, but they're simply wrong. Be it Art, Life Sciences, or Zoological pursuits, the Queen of biological systems is superior. Why then should she let a little thing like...
"Also changing the subject" (take it to PM) You know, it would be kinda cool if Dreamer ended up in an alternate Taylor.
Squirrelly-Sama
Founder of QQ
- Location
- I don't know... Somewhere?
On a cooler head I have come back to this thread and have read the responses. While seeing this does make me want to get angry and defend and explain myself again I won't. I was being an ass and a tool and a kill joy because I got a little peeved, getting mocked is understandable.
I will admit my actions were petty and extreme, something about your posting and phrasing just created an immediate and visceral dislike to you. That was unfair to you and deleting the snip was unfair to the audience. To that end I apologize to both of you. @curiosity You were right, while I do still have a different opinion on the formatting you were right that I was acting like an idiot. To everyone else, @Alivaril, I'll be reposting the skit with the formatting changes.
PieceThruWar
Not an eldritch abomination
- Location
- The Server Farm
*Sliding right in as if I'd always been here**blatantly trying to change subject*
This story has its first (fanmade) sorta-spinoff! If this is the start of a trend, I totally won't complain.
Shaping Up
Shaper is a Monarch. As such, she is a much refined shard with the best taste of all her siblings. They might disagree, but they're simply wrong. Be it Art, Life Sciences, or Zoological pursuits, the Queen of biological systems is superior. Why then should she let a little thing like...
Neither would I.
Chapter 37: Honestly Unhealthy Habits
- Location
- A single human dimension
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Special thanks to @saganatsu, @DB_Explorer, @fictionfan, @Adephagia, @orchamus, @Just_A_Knight, Mr. Silver, @DaGeek247, @ChaoticSky, and my sixteen other patrons not mentioned here. An extremely enthusiastic "Thank you" to @Torgamous for her patronage as well.
Beta'd by @Vebyast and @Nachtigall, both of whom are marvelously helpful.
Beta'd by @Vebyast and @Nachtigall, both of whom are marvelously helpful.
~ ~ ~
"Although that was a little entertaining to watch, why didn't you make a copy of the sword?" Lachesis asked. "Did your domain just not like weaponry?"
Dreamer sighed, placed her physics textbook to one side, and turned to the Fate she didn't recall inviting. Admittedly, her original invitation didn't have an expiration date, yet they'd always waited for further messages before coming over. That was apparently more out of now-discarded politeness than any true constraints.
"I've been making forgeries to speak with my guest-self," Dreamer grudgingly admitted. "They need to fit changing specifications each time, repeatedly require replacement, and are generally inefficient. I'd prefer a proper key instead of the lockpicks I've been using."
Lachesis hummed sympathetically and tried to push open the textbook that Dreamer had been reading prior to the Fate's most recent visit. The tome promptly grew teeth, opened its maw wide, and tried to bite the startled goddess's hand off. Dreamer jerked Lachesis's hand away before that could happen and stroked the book's spine until it calmed down. The teeth gradually vanished and replaced themselves with arcane scribbles once more.
"Ooooookay…" Lachesis began slowly. "I'd heard rumors of monstrous treasure chests, but a monstrous book was a new one."
Clearly, you haven't seen my guest-self's new book-Friends. Dreamer was particularly proud of those; they looked like they were just a single shelf of books, but in reality, their nervous system would spread throughout the bookshelf and allow emergency animation. Oh, it definitely broke the "no monstrous furniture" rule, but Dreamer had been careful to hide that functionality from herself under the guise of recoil management. Honestly, it was more of a proof-of-concept than anything else; she wanted to see whether gods and adventurers could sense distributed life-forms or see through the surface layer of solid objects. Thus far, the answer seemed to be no.
"Please keep your hands away from any books I read," Dreamer said aloud. "If I need to do so, it's generally because I don't yet know the content. That means something guarded by my guest-self instead of myself."
Lachesis slowly looked up from the tome and at the courtyard full of suborned defense systems surrounding them.
"So the menagerie was basically a deathtrap," Lachesis summarized, not appearing particularly bothered by the idea. "Good to know. I'd just reformed a bit after I died, though, so I thought I'd stay around for a while. But anyway, why didn't you just send letters to her through that remote-viewing thingie?"
Because I don't have an excuse to avoid New-mother or New-sister if I start doing that. It'd also let them know she could actually interact with the world near her guest-self, a revelation she had no intention of allowing them. Dreamer's new family would start trying to make her act responsibly if they learned, and she… well, she wasn't. 'Lucidity' was something of a convenient lie, but it was true that she lost focus easily, often didn't focus on the outside world, and didn't want to spend all her time looking outside.
"That's slower and less interactive," Dreamer said instead. "And it's called either a television or tee-vee."
"That was good to know," Lachesis acknowledged. "So your forgeries were why the chapel's cellar was filled with swords? I was wondering about that."
Dreamer froze as Lachesis's words registered. Her forgeries shouldn't have been tracked; the system changed itself to avoid intrusion instead of specifically adding exceptions. And there was only one key to communications, she was sure. It wasn't as though her guest-self would put the keys to other things in a single room; she was smarter than that.
"Ooooor I supposed not?" asked Lachesis.
Dreamer's eyes stared emptily at the sword — no, the decoy — she'd spent the last far-too-long trying to steal. She couldn't decide whether to be upset or grudgingly impressed that her guest-self had fooled her so easily. Dreamer might have subordinated numerous peripheral systems with methodical ease, yet it seemed as though the central ones would be far better protected.
Archival note: Always examine an area before attempting to affect objects within that area.
The teenager came out of her daze to find Lachesis offering a too-familiar concoction to the not-quite-mortal girl.
"You looked like you needed a drink," the goddess coaxed. "You didn't need to worry; it wasn't Soma~"
"Stop trying already! Just because you were born fully-grown doesn't mean I was!"
"You were perfectly happy to chow down on brain-damaging black flowers, though. You shouldn't have thought I didn't notice."
"For the last time, I need those to keep my powers!"
"Then why were you messing around with this sword instead of whichever one you needed to kill that curse?"
Dreamer flinched and tried to keep her indignant demeanor intact. Because I'm happier in my new life than my old one. Lachesis's worried expression seemed to indicate that the attempt at concealment had failed.
"If that was a grief thing," the goddess said gently, "then you should've known that it wasn't a healthy coping method. And you shouldn't have thought about deflecting via my own alcohol problems, either."
The teenager discarded that plan in favor of a backup. Honesty might not be the best policy, but with deflection discarded, a truthful answer seemed like the best of a bad hand.
"I don't need my pre-guest memories to function," Dreamer insisted. "There are no social relationships I need to maintain, no cultural requirements I need to heed, and no ongoing obligations to remember. Why should I need to keep memories if all they do is make me suffer?"
She'd tried outright deletion, but unfortunately, her guest-self seemed to have made that literally impossible. Even when she migrated the memories to new wetware and destroyed it, they'd just be restored from redundant backups she hadn't even known existed. There were even irritating reminders on how unwanted memories delivered "Important life lessons" whenever each attempt was foiled. Admittedly, that system seemed to serve a double purpose in letting her guest-self recover more quickly from crippling, but she still wanted them gone.
Lachesis slowly set the cup of wine down before trying to pull the younger girl into a hug. Dreamer dodged the attempt and aimed her best disgruntled expression at the seemingly-unrepentant goddess.
"That would've been a grey area if it was just suppression of old memories, but it wasn't," Lachesis insisted, blatantly inching toward Dreamer's wary self. "You were dulling the new ones and even your mind; you acted drunk a good half of the time I was with you and you were always the worst a few minutes after you ate a flower. Listen, if it was because you wanted to keep enjoying stuff considered odd or childish, then why didn't you? You possessed the powers of a deity without our unchanging nature; surely you could've made yourself younger if you wanted to."
Dreamer had honestly considered such an action on more than one occasion; she'd had her childhood tainted by grief and the uncaring psychological study of one of her guest-self's relatives, Phantasm. There were other reasons to prefer childhood, too; she'd felt more pride at being pretty than concern that she wasn't, didn't have her imagination hijacked by X-rated fantasies, didn't need to deal with the painful abomination known as the human menstrual cycle, ironically had people take her more seriously than they had when she was older, and could remember being happier in general.
On the other hand, she was too intelligent to be a child even if she sometimes indulged in childish activities. New-sister was the one who seemed like she'd be happier properly reliving childhood; Dreamer had seen half-hidden jealousy whenever New-sister saw what things other children possessed that New-sister hadn't.
But maybe we'd both be happier with a playmate? We could be weird kids together.
Dreamer shook her head. Her guest-self was on the outside, and she was on the inside; she might let her guest-self inside at some point, but the idea of personally going outside was quite uncomfortable. Besides, it'd be just plain weird to see her guest-self as herself when Dreamer was their younger self. Her guest-self couldn't even pretend to be one of those cynical future selves from a heroine's mid-battle hallucination; she was literally too alien.
...Well, okay, maybe Dreamer's guest-self could've been the evil mad scientist's brainwashed assistant or something, but that was just creepy.
"Just because I sometimes indulge doesn't mean I want to go backward," Dreamer half-lied.
Lachesis raised both eyebrows, flicked her eyes toward the suborned baby-forms of various defenses, and looked back at Dreamer. The teenager tried not to flush. She did just say she indulged sometimes, didn't she? Besides, the entire Internet was obsessed with cute critters. It wasn't that childish.
"You didn't sound as though you'd even convinced yourself of that," Lachesis observed.
Dreamer shifted uncomfortably, slowly coming to realize that the Fate wasn't going to give up unless Dreamer gave a good reason to do so. Unfortunately, she apparently didn't have any that Lachesis would accept. Yet.
"Can we shelve all these uncomfortable topics until your workshop is done?" Dreamer tried.
The delay would give Dreamer plenty of time to prepare distractions, deflections, and counterarguments. Even when the workshop was completed, Lachesis would probably be too distracted by drunken celebration to remember Dreamer's problems.
"I would've agreed to that," Lachesis agreed easily. "Provided you didn't force us away or flee, anyway."
Dreamer blinked and squinted at the too-innocent visage of the Fate before her. Even with the added condition, the goddess hadn't even paused to think about it. The easy agreement was suspicious.
"That's fine, but… really?"
"Oh, sure," Lachesis replied casually, her lips twitching. "I actually thought we would've finished tomorrow; the hardest part was actually implementing defenses the other gods couldn't get through. You taught Clotho enough to let her make the workshop automatic, so if Heaven's inhabitants didn't screw it up, then we might've actually gotten to descend when Clotho's number came up in a few decades or so. Atropos and I already could've gone down whenever."
Dreamer couldn't help but gape. All she'd done was give them some select textbooks and guides from her old world; she'd expected weeks to pass before they even knew how to build a computer, let alone managed to make the programs they needed. What kind of overpowered bullshit was letting them skip practically the entire engineering process?
Lachesis giggled and tried to pat Dreamer's head. The teenager ducked away and glared at the Fate, tempted to down an entire fistful of black flowers out of sheer spite. One day was not what she'd meant to negotiate for.
"You seriously should've known better than to make a deal with a deity," Lachesis cheerfully informed her. "We were always either sore losers or borderline cheaters."
~ ~ ~
Alexander knocked on the doors of Hestia's church and waited with anxiety in his chest. He'd repeatedly questioned his assignment and received a rather disturbing answer: he was being assigned because he was the only member they had. Others had applied, but half the Guild still didn't know that the Diplomatic Division existed. Haste seemed as though it could easily be harmful in the case of Queen Administrator; unfortunately, it wasn't his choice to make. He might as well resign if he refused such orders. Besides, someone else might get it wrong.
It was late enough in the day that most adventurers were home, yet that wasn't any real guarantee. Fortunately, Lady Hestia seemed to have quit her day-job and could apparently be found at home for most of the day.
Sure enough, he was waiting for only about twenty seconds before the diminutive goddess in question yanked the door open, seemingly spotted the Guild's insignia over his heart, and regarded him with exhausted eyes.
"What did she do this time?" Lady Hestia asked, resigned.
It took an effort of will to keep a straight face. Nearly all of Orario would be thrilled to have someone as interesting as Queen Administrator in their Familia, yet he supposed Lady Hestia wasn't most deities. For one thing, she wasn't a dumbass. Alexander held up both hands and shook his head.
"I believe you misunderstand; I'm not here to deliver bad news. I'm a member of the Guild's Diplomatic Division and have been sent to speak with Queen Administrator. May I come in?"
Hestia's expression flickered to relief for only a moment before transitioning to outright wariness.
"When did the Guild get dedicated diplomats?" Hestia asked suspiciously.
"Earlier this week," Alexander replied easily. "Regardless, is Queen Administrator home? The Guild wishes to open diplomatic channels with her homeland."
The goddess stiffened, tried to grab his arm, and missed when Alexander reflexively dodged. Lady Hestia blinked at her empty hands, glared at Alexander, and stomped away from the door. He took the hint and let himself inside, closing the heavy door behind himself.
He hadn't even been inside the church proper for five seconds when Lady Hestia rounded on Alexander.
"You do not want the attention of Administrator's homeland," Hestia bluntly informed him. "You might've heard the rumors about baby-daggers or hand-crossbows? They're accurate, and that isn't even the worst thing I've learned about them. You remember how Queen Administrator threatened you? Imagine a nation where that kind of mindset is idolized. She's half-broken like this because they experimented on her."
Alexander blinked and tried not to gape. That conversation had gone somewhere dark in a hurry. What kind of experimentation would involve mental damage to the degree Queen Administrator demonstrated?
"That may be the case," he began carefully. "Yet I'm afraid they've already noticed us. If the Mysterious Monster Theft was an unsanctioned raid, then Queen Administrator's government may be willing to pursue their misbehaving citizens. If not, then we can confirm to them that their actions were both noticed and unwelcome. Regardless, it isn't my choice to make and arguably isn't yours, either. Queen Administrator herself is the one to make that decision."
The goddess scowled and crossed her arms. Alexander tried to ignore the results and kept his eyes fixed on Hestia's face. It wasn't very difficult; immortal or not, she looked too young for him to be truly interested.
"And I'm telling you that we don't want her to say yes," Hestia insisted. "Look at Orario, remember Ishtar, and think about how Ishtar isn't the only idiot. We'd be at war within a month if you got their attention."
The incident that had almost gotten Alexander to quit his job easily rose to the forefront of his mind. However, Hestia didn't seem to have finished and began checking points off on her fingers.
"Attempted assassinations are commonplace. I think basically everything there is venomous or poisonous. Humans are viewed as inferior. Their idea of a secure location is terrifying. They don't want visitors. Their language indicates levels of secrecy as a grammatical requirement. They might prize knowledge, but that works both ways; you've seen how little they value those they consider stupid."
Hestia dropped her hands and planted both fists on her hips. Long practice was the only thing that kept him from snickering at her; she didn't appear any more impressive and even looked like a particularly frustrated puppy.
"So please, go back and tell the rest of the Guild that I think this is an unbelievably bad idea. I'm not going to help you bring us into a war just because it seemed like a good idea at the time."
Alexander raised both hands in surrender and smiled weakly. He hadn't gone into this with the intention of being chewed out by one of the few deities he respected.
"You don't need to yell at me, Lady Hestia. I will relay your warnings. However, I'm not sure they'll be enough; the potential benefits in having allied spatial mages are considerable and may allow faster and deeper exploration than ever before."
Hestia was uncharacteristically silent for several seconds. Her subsequent transition from anger to happiness was both jarring and blatantly fake. Alexander mentally sighed and prepared himself for something to make his job and life even harder than usual. He understood where she was coming from, but did she need to take it out on him?
"You're treading on Familia business," Hestia sweetly informed him. "I don't think that's a good start to a new part of the Guild, is it? I'm sure the other gods would love an excuse to undo whatever tricks you pulled to make it without a huge fight."
…Seriously? They've used bad wine as an excuse to attack the Guild. Still, he did have to admit that Familia business was one of the few excuses that deities consistently agreed to accept. Since Queen Administrator was within Hestia's Familia, it was technically one that would likely work.
As he looked down at the goddess's increasingly smug expression, it was easy for Alexander to believe every last rumor that painted her as a manipulative schemer — for all of two seconds, anyway. Someone with the appearance of a particularly short teenager was not what came to mind when he thought of someone devious. It was like trying to imagine the little Pallum girl, Liliruca Arde, as a diabolical villain; the image just didn't work.
~ ~ ~
It was too bad that Lili's new Friend was so bright they could use the light as a weapon; Lili was pretty sure she'd figured out the command to kill Zanis. But if Queen Administrator had managed to weaponize conspicuousness, maybe they could do the opposite? Possibly a Friend that changed color to match its surroundings? It was something to ask about when they were home and Hestia had gone to bed.
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- Location
- Sweden, Europe, Earth, Sol
Cackles in the vengeance of a broken childhood!
Pandora
Gotta say, blood IS as tasty as I make it look~
- Location
- Brazil
I love the story, I really do!
But, OOOOH!! How it irritates me that Lachesis is prodding her to go back to the real world.
I dislike the fact that she won't leave her be and accept her choice. After all, if she needs to go back, SHE had better stop drinking!!!
She is like someone who does drugs telling a smoker to quit.
I love this story a lot and that I got this mad serves as another point in your favor!
But, OOOOH!! How it irritates me that Lachesis is prodding her to go back to the real world.
I dislike the fact that she won't leave her be and accept her choice. After all, if she needs to go back, SHE had better stop drinking!!!
She is like someone who does drugs telling a smoker to quit.
I love this story a lot and that I got this mad serves as another point in your favor!
Axel
Tenno Wax
- Location
- Italy
- Pronouns
- He
Oh my god, the alien version of the indomitus rex...
- Location
- Salt Lake City, UT, USA
There's always the Green Sun Prince stealth method, Lily.
( Be so intensely brilliant that anything which witnesses you has all senses permanently burned out. )
A lesser imitation of this method of concealment is found in this video:
I mean, Lachesis is really just trying to help. And I feel as though the gods themselves are a perfect example of "Do as I say, not as I do." So Lachesis probably even realizes the hypocrisy - she still wants to help Dreamer and probably prevent her from making the same mistakes that she, Lachesis, has made.
Not where my mind originally went, but I do find the image of Lili riding a murder dino oddly endearing.
Hmm... but would a stegosaurus be more suitable?
- Pronouns
- It/They
Trying to make someone live in the real world is the exact opposite of helpful.
i call it outright malice even.
The real world is awful who would want to live there if given an alternative?
this is why i spend as much time as possible on the internet or fiction.
To stay away from reality.
Because reality sucks.
Alas, some important life lessons are better left unlearned.
I think, it's more about having Dreamer admit and be consciously aware of her insecurities than about making her quit eating black flowers.
- Location
- Salt Lake City, UT, USA
Not a fan of riajuu either, eh? They are all quite filthy, I am told.
- Location
- Salt Lake City, UT, USA
Isn't that kinda redundant?
- Location
- SoCal, USA
Against stupidity, the goddess herself contends in vain.
I definitely agree. Then again, Fate is seldom fair. Plus, Dreamer is definitely not the same as Taylor now. She literally killed herself and just came back. QA is right. She is being a good shard.
Okibruez
(Verified Mid-Boss)
- Location
- Dreams
I've personally always preferred the Somebody Else's Problem method of stealth.
If something seems troublesome enough, everyone will be willing to assume it's somebody else's problem and ignore it outright. For example, you can't walk into the depths of the ER without a good reason without getting into trouble, but lead a parade of Big Band Jazz musicians through and maaaybe the head of the hospital will show up to stop you. Or, another example: If you fling a mountain into space, alot of people are going to get tetchy about the new moon very quickly, but if you paint the mountain pink and slap a cheap SEP up, eventually a lone cartogropher might get confused enough to spot the thing.
QA's been abusing the SEP field, probably without realizing it, for weeks.
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- Location
- A single human dimension
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Dreamer is fairly confident that making her wake up isn't Lachesis's main objective; the Fate did start out by asking why Dreamer wasn't going for the sword (system) that would render the black flowers unnecessary for continued dreaming.
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