- Pronouns
- They/Them
brb, voting to take nothing but soul bond levels in perpetuity to keep everyone in our family safe and make it impossible to kill the resulting collective without wiping it all out in one go.
It's a Girl's World -- And Lilly wants Adventure
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Souldbound with Eevie!
Primordial Chassie on Petal?
Making sure our brother is fine will need us to keep {Rest state} active all the time trough our family link. And using [Cleaver of Fortune] actively.
Really wish we had configured the ladder for the short term, cause then it could give advice on this short term problem like a revolver, steering us to a future we want. Right now our biggest hope is {Ply the Line}. The metaphorical line is the super unprobably chance of him making out perfectly fine.
The clue of nudging father into giving emotional support gives me a bit of inspiriation.
The plan would be to get dad or mom to tell him that he paid attention to Lilly because he knew about the name thing and wanted to avert our fate, yet found that all his effort to change our fate was pointless instead Lilly was fuller and whole. It's like dad lived in fear of Lilly's future.
Ignoring his son.Well, unintentional neglect. His fate as a runemaster denied. Pops needs to give a sincere apology, it'll make the situation better but it won't fix all the harm he caused.
Yet that there is the Line we want to Ply. Get the future we want!
Our problem isn't short term, it's long term.
You can make every individual move the correct one and still get blindsided because you weren't looking at the long term ramifications. {The Ladder} is set to prioritize those ramifications over optimizing every individual step.
And I'd prefer a general guideline of how to get a desired outcome over a step by step walkthrough myself.
Edifier
Trusted within thoughts.
- Location
- Court of Moon Wizards
That is a fair argument. I'm just thinking slightly differently. I think doing better in the short term gives us advantages that can be leveraged to overcome later challenges.
Yours is valid as well, focusing on nullifying distant challenges. Pre-emptively removing trouble, thus making our life easier.
I just realized. The full potential of {Ply the Line} is like mind control that can't be noticed. A bit like subversion but a lot more indirect.
Very useful. Especially in steering people away from self-destruction and working for our good and from that indirectly for their own.
Yours is valid as well, focusing on nullifying distant challenges. Pre-emptively removing trouble, thus making our life easier.
I just realized. The full potential of {Ply the Line} is like mind control that can't be noticed. A bit like subversion but a lot more indirect.
Very useful. Especially in steering people away from self-destruction and working for our good and from that indirectly for their own.
- Location
- San Ramon, CA
Alright, THIS is the silver bullet. [Rest State] can help keep him from slipping further (even as a Minor Relations), but the real skill we need: [True Song]
1. Have Lilly do a [True Song] jam with Yolun. The main thing we'll be trying to get across is "I know you love me, and I know you tried your best."
2. Have Lilly do a [True Song] jam with Zach. Tell him beforehand a bit about the jam with Sarah, that it's not about agreeing with each other 100%, but clearing up misconceptions and laying out a foundation to build off of. "We may not be square, but we can be better than yesterday."
3. Some time later (at least a few hours, maybe the next day), ask Yolun and Zach to meet in the barn. Say "We are going to try and sing a song together. It will not be pretty, and we may have to stop before the song is finished, but I'm asking you to at least try." Now, the main trick is that Lilly is going to try and play background vocals. This is a conversation between Zach and Yolun, Lilly's here only to facilitate and mediate. Yolun's probably going to hear a bitter refrain of "you didn't try your best, and I'm not sure you love me", but Zach won't be able to hold back that he still desperately WANTS a connection, WANTS Yolun's attention and affection.
It may end in hugs, it may end in Zach running out of the barn, but whatever happens next, Zach can believe that Yolun will be working from his own initiative to make things better, not just "because Lilly asked".
Edifier
Trusted within thoughts.
- Location
- Court of Moon Wizards
But it would be because Lilly asked and pushed things in that direction. All that attention would be BECAUSE of Lilly, using true song in such an overt way.
Like this would turn all the attention directed on Zack cause dad is folding over backwards for Lilly, which got him so salty in the first place. Even if him folding results in pops giving Zack special attention.
It'd be direct influence from Lilly, which presses on the Father only cares about Lilly button and does anything she asks and dotes on her.
Sure it gets them talking and together, but it tramples over what caused his emotional pain in the first place. That Lilly is more important than him.
Like this would turn all the attention directed on Zack cause dad is folding over backwards for Lilly, which got him so salty in the first place. Even if him folding results in pops giving Zack special attention.
It'd be direct influence from Lilly, which presses on the Father only cares about Lilly button and does anything she asks and dotes on her.
Sure it gets them talking and together, but it tramples over what caused his emotional pain in the first place. That Lilly is more important than him.
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- Location
- San Ramon, CA
Lilly will get them both in the room, but everything that comes after would be all on them. We'll head off to go to the Dungeon or whatever, and the two of them can go woodcarving or riding into town, and it'll just be the two of them bonding as their own selves and on their own initiative.
If the only way to get a good result is for Lilly to not talk to or push Yolun AT ALL, then either we'll be trying to put the onus on Zach to make the first move, or we'd be doing some version of "locking them in the barn until they sort it out."
Edifier
Trusted within thoughts.
- Location
- Court of Moon Wizards
What needs to happen is for Yolun to have a heart to heart with Zach, but without Lilly being visibly involved.
Zach shouldn't get a clue that it's Lilly pushing things with {True Song} or other methods.
I think leaning onto [Cleaver of Fortune], {Ply the Line} would do the trick. Lots of 'coincidences' and making the improbable future into a certain future.
Getting mother involved in it with {True Song} could do it as well, she has a flow ethos and she may be able to manipulate pops and bro both. If mom does they can't point to Lilly being the mastermind, circumventing the triggering of his trauma.
The situation is a delicate thing.
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So what we probably want next is Imposition. Imposition and Relations combined should probably be able to let us create a Self Sustaining Perfect Seedling without needing to keep a Major Relations Slot on it forever, as well as lower the time it takes to actually Impose these relations.
meianmaru
The Devourer of Fiction
I'm gonna go and guess that Imposition doesn't work on Relations, or any of the Recursive Projection or the Gravitas Weaving powers. Or any other Deific-Ascendant Ethos. Or if it does, very slowly with an obscene timeframe.
And after saying that, I'm gonna do some my own WMG of Ethea and powers. So, making a Soul-Bond with Petal in the near-future is probably as good as locked-in option, considering all the benfits. But I think that an Oath-Ethos Contract with Petal might be in the cards:
And if we want to make Lilly-Petal connection even more obscene, we could throw in the Collective Communion, Rest State, Riemannian Geometer, a part(s) of that hypothetical Oath-Ethos and a part(s) from a Mana-Ethos (or from multiple ones) to Permanent Merger. This will hopefully result in Petal becoming some kind of near-indestructible World-Tree which is an endless fount of Essence and Mana, to which now also other people can make Contracts with. If Lilly doesn't get murderized in this theoretical thought-excercise of course, as those powers in the merger won't be usable for weeks. Then, if feasible, plug-in the whole thing to Geological Meta-Anchor for the Towering-Edifice to Heaven, as we plant Petal somewhere we want to (if she has been scooped into Lilly's dreamscape in the first place). If this actually works (or at least something to that direction), we should have a pretty good HQ for when the end of the world (or whatever that is) starts to get more serious.
...On a slightly less utopian near-term planning that relies on the knowledge of actually know mechanics, I think that Heartsaff would be good candinate for the next Artifact slot when/if we end up picking it. We are currently somewhat lacking in personal direct attack-power, and the Heartstaff seems like a good starting point to rectifying that.
Why would you expect that. These powers are all part of one whole ethos and have already been stated to have synergies. Like relations and entities for instance. Imposition is partly about taking what is meant to be temporary and making it permanent. It probably indeed would take a fair amount of time (which would decrease as we level up) but I fully expect this to work.
meianmaru
The Devourer of Fiction
I'm just basing this on the promise of more powerful powers in turn requiring even more powerful powers to modify them quickly, or even at all in the first place. Considering the two you spoke off are both at the top of the power-tier-pyramid, that we at least know off, I wouldn't get my hopes up.
Yes but I wasn't expecting it to be instant, I just expect it to work. We already know imposition and relations have synergy, after all imposition relations and dissolution are all required to move petal permanently into the dream. Giving people powers permanently is kinda really really useful, especially as we will want to recruit people eventually to our side. Spending a couple weeks making a Perfect Seedling permanent via imposition seems very worthwhile. We would be able to gift our friends and family powers to enhance their strengths, cover their weaknesses and so on.
And it's not just the being able to make this permanent that I think would be agreat synergy. Being able to reduce the time to use Major Relations across the board would be really really nice. Imposition is all about strengthening stuff as wellweaving it into reality so reduced time to say do stuff overall would make sense.
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meianmaru
The Devourer of Fiction
Well, while I'm not still convinced about the likelyhood of it, lets hope that you are right. It would be an amazing addition to our arsenal. Anyway, Slyvena has been pretty open about these things before we have even picked powers and Ethos up often, so hopefully we can get a clarification.
On another note, I wonder if Dissolution will allow us to do budget level versions of this. Erasing limiters should be up its alley, though it might end up like trying to perform delicate surgery with a chainsaw. Or perhaps trying to cut down a tree with a scalpel.
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- Location
- A Computer
I would think that the main issue would be getting Lilly to realize what these things are?
Evie or whoever we meet next chapter might be able to help us eventually on that.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
man, I for one am already hype for the next chapter
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
You're hype? I'm more quivering in fear at all the bullets that keep bouncing around us.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I feel like the bullets are less bouncing around us and more heading directly at our face.
Half Moon
In the end, there is no end.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
And I'm desperately hoping we get the secret challenge before it comes.
I feel like we've pretty much tapped that vein out, even with all the wild mass guessing and some interesting analyses no one managed to hit it and speculation has pretty much died off.
Slyvena
I don't like pie.
- Location
- Pie Shop
What's funny is that when I was doing my early planning for this quest (as in a couple of sentences for the general vibe of each Source long before I locked down what they even where), I'm pretty sure "Holistically Helpful, basically, hard to fuck up." was one of the descriptors for Essence.
It does tend to run a lot more on intention than explicit action compared to other Sources I'll give you that. Its powers usually just do a thing.
My original idea was a Pithe-heavy playthrough, which would have resembled more archetypal magi-warrior stories. But votes and dice have led us... elsewhere.
Lilly is going to do much better the next time she tries {Ply the Line} now. Trying to use it to directly change other thing's Fates was a High Fracture move, which [Cleaver] is not. Now that she has realised [Cleaver]'s power lies in herself, it's going to work properly.
This whole plan is ridiculous... and I love it. Except for the Geological Meta-Anchor stuff, touch that and you'll shut it down, along with your access to Relations, thus aborting the process (or more likely outright imploding your {Heart Core} in the split second it has no Anchor).
Imposition would indeed help for Major Relations to be established quicker.
Making a seedling permanent would be a huge undertaking. It is also what is often referred to as a Boon when Dungeons do it. You'd need to be smart and pick powers that could reasonably fit and integrate into someone's Ethos over time then use Imposition to speed up and strengthen this process. The easiest method would be to deliberately give them a power at what is effectively 'Tier 0' and focus all your attention on stabalising it, then leave it to them to grow. Relations can be used to share Gravitas if you want to assist them in that too.
As long as you're cooperative and don't spoil the fun.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Ahhh.
It's right there in the name, Ply the Line.
Tugging on the line.
It's not about willing something's fate to change, it's setting up a Rube Golberg style thing where you make a specific move and it causes a desired outcome to happen, right? It's leaving the gun on the banister so that your friend has a weapon to defend themselves against an attacker, not making the attacker randomly trip and brain themselves on a pokey nail on the ground.
Very silent, very subtle from a Concordance perspective, but no less dangerous for it. Mythic Ethos indeed, if you have enough leverage, [Cleaver of Fortune] can still change the world, and it's not nearly as obvious about it.
No wonder people becoming aware that we had it would cause some nervous looks and tugs--a High Fracture Concordance effect is loud, obvious, and something easily traced back to its point of origin. Low Fracture is damn near invisible, and with High Tension it can really lean on causality despite this.
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Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
I think that's more how {Critical Pivot}'s baliwick. {Ply the Line} seems more of an... Amplifier? Actions she take have disproportionate ripple effects when she surges Concordance along with them.
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