It's a Girl's World -- And Lilly wants Adventure

[Alectai]

Yeah, the downside is the Attention we've garnered.

Well, 'Downside' at least, we can leverage that potential and the goodwill we've assembled to navigate things reasonably well. At the very least we're liable to get reasonable treatment as long as they don't feel Lilly is either a flight risk or intractable.

Still, power compounds on power, and we're doing a pretty good job making up for comatime. Here's hoping Evie can successfully fix Brave Song like she promised she could, because that's our big social skill.

 

[Silverking]

Here's hoping Evie can successfully fix Brave Song like she promised she could, because that's our big social skill.

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Brave Song is very helpful at conveying the honesty of our intentions and revealing the intentions of others (like an emotional Zone of Truth), but we haven't yet used it on people who had reason to distrust us...or who may not wish to respond to hide their own dark intentions.

 

[Alectai]

I do admit, I'm curious as to what our Ethos rolls will be since we pushed to get a fifth one after all, I don't think we'll grab the (Inverted) pick again, but I'm curious as to if it can actually help, or if we'll at least get some insight on what an (Inverted) Ethos actually is from reading the description if it does come up.

I don't think they're bad though, Evie probably wouldn't have considered lining us up for them if they were considered badwrongstuff--but the idea is inter...e..s..

*brainstorm*

Ethos exist to help people achieve a desired outcome, hence the starting spread is heavily influenced by the subject's thoughts, hopes, and dreams.

Then, does that mean an (Inverted) Ethos exists to avoid undesired outcomes? A class built on negating an idea instead of aspiring to one?

Like, let's say you have [Dragon Slayer] as something that exists to dunk on Dragons as an epic hero.

Would then something like [Here be Dragons] be an (Inverted Ethos) built around not getting eaten or otherwise tormented by a dragon? Just as a thought experiment?

 

[sheep-dodger]

I doubt it tbh. The inverted Ethos we rolled is called [My Beautiful Pain] and was triggered by having our hopes, dreams and narratives shattered in painful ways. My guess would be that it's the inversion of [Her Sanguine Innocence]. [My Beautiful Pain] sounds to me not like it's about avoiding disappointment and disillusion, but about reveling in it and cultivating it. Probably the kind of Ethos you pick up if you want to embrace being goth

 

[noncannon]

Gaining power from one's own pain might not be a bad thing, considering Lilly's likely trajectory. It can have some funny effects on incentives, however.

 

[sheep-dodger]

Going by the unlock conditions I'm relatively sure it's more about mental pain/disappointment than about physical pain:

Spoiler: Medium Spoiler

You need to have multiple facets of your hopes and dreams sullied in disappointing ways, even better if you feel stupid and naive when it happens. There have been a few quite a few of those recently but this chapter you've had enough to meet the 'can roll' condition.

Overhearing the man you've been crushing on lay out his opinion on how to manipulate you, that's gotta sting and really doesn't fit the "I'm proving myself and gaining his respect" narrative you were telling yourself.
Marius' healing was the big one. Magic and spells have always been a source of fullness and joyful wonder to Lilly, feeling slightly violated by a mage who is one of the 'good guys' did the trick. The fact he mildly gaslit Lilly too making her wonder if her reservations were even okay or if she was just being dumb also really helped.

Enduring physical pain is helpful for lowering the DC, but disappointments and loss of innocence are best.

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Not really the kind of thing I'd want to put Lilly through intentionally.
Also: considering that we're about to learn our namesake, I'd expect that we'll have a rarer version of the namesake ethos up for grabs next time we get to select one.

 

[Alectai]

I doubt it tbh. The inverted Ethos we rolled is called [My Beautiful Pain] and was triggered by having our hopes, dreams and narratives shattered in painful ways. My guess would be that it's the inversion of [Her Sanguine Innocence]. [My Beautiful Pain] sounds to me not like it's about avoiding disappointment and disillusion, but about reveling in it and cultivating it. Probably the kind of Ethos you pick up if you want to embrace being goth

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You're probably right, but half the fun is the wild speculation!

Regardless though, (Inverted) Ethos don't seem to be Inherently Evil or disruptive to the cosmos, or Evie probably wouldn't be considering signing Lilly up as a registered beta tester of them. They play with the normal rules in funny ways, but it seems at least sanctioned by the greater body of spirits and whatnot, which probably means it isn't something like the Maw's "Oh fuck oh fuck don't let it get us"

EDIT: Even with that, my theory holds. "I lost my innocence and life sucks, so I'll avoid being hurt by turning the hurt into something else!"

Anyway, really looking forward to see what the next Ethos spread is, I wonder if the shit we did will qualify us for some Knightly Ethos at all? We did spend a great deal of time in mounted combat against an overwhelming foe to save people after all, and it's one of the last few things we need to really lock in our whole Baby Paladin aesthetic.

Well, that, and more gear--while our new [Brave Blood] advancement means that the size issue is less of a concern, the sooner we're rocking plate (Or better if Ethos based crafting can surpass the best form of pre-industrial armor that exists), the safer we'll be.

It's doubly fun because Lilly's weird defenses means that she's highly resistant to the counter to people running around in plate. Blunt force doesn't fuck up a tree nearly as much as it does a person after all.

 

[NotteBoy97]

Personally my guess for what Inverted is that it's exactly what it says on the tin an inversion of a normal ethos that gives you the opposite powers and abilities for what it would normally give you.

My Beautiful Pain sounds like a weird Sado-masochistic type of thing where you love Pain both inflicting and receiving it and so it's naturally unlocked by experiencing Pain with a specific mention of the Pain of loss of Innocence. Not the sort of ability I think we would ever think of getting normally but for whatever reason the Ethos is inverted. Maybe the spirit/demon behind the Ethos got twisted up with its insides and outsides switched or it got multiplied by -1 turning positive negative and vice versa. So instead of giving us weird and probably slightly evil Pain abilities the Inverted version will be more of a healing and nice feelings Ethos that's just unlocked by the conditions of the 'normal' Beautiful Pain.

 

[Slyvena]

It just so happened that one of them proc'd during Lilly's first week awake.

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Yes and no. This was not a 'loosening' event. The 'Meanwhile across the Ocean' interlude option would have shown you what one of those can look like.
As it is your getting 'End of the First Era' at some point, a little look into the Cosmological Landscape and Entities a few trillion years ago. (Free Lore (mild spoil): We are currently in the 7th Era)

Brave Song is very helpful at conveying the honesty of our intentions and revealing the intentions of others (like an emotional Zone of Truth), but we haven't yet used it on people who had reason to distrust us

Click to shrink...

Lilly is smart. You'll never use it on people who are not family unless they explicitly trust you or you can guarantee your own physical safety. It's a bit hard for someone to tell the difference between 'I was just magically communicated with' and 'I was just magically mind raped', so you are liable to get your head blown apart on the first syllable if you just busted it out without warning.
The {True Song} requires consent for the most part, it can't take what people don't want to give at least on some level, but people don't know that.

will qualify us for some Knightly Ethos at all?

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Ethea like that exist. That's all I'll say.


@NotteBoy97 @sheep-dodger @noncannon Ya'll will at least get to see a full description rather than just a name for an {Inverted} in 1.12


Also, for those that were discussing, the Title of 1.12 has nothing to do with the {Heartstaff}.

 

[Blademaster]

Yes and no. This was not a 'loosening' event. The 'Meanwhile across the Ocean' interlude option would have shown you what one of those can look like.
As it is your getting 'End of the First Era' at some point, a little look into the Cosmological Landscape and Entities a few trillion years ago. (Free Lore (mild spoil): We are currently in the 7th Era)

Lilly is smart. You'll never use it on people who are not family unless they explicitly trust you or you can guarantee your own physical safety. It's a bit hard for someone to tell the difference between 'I was just magically communicated with' and 'I was just magically mind raped', so you are liable to get your head blown apart on the first syllable if you just busted it out without warning.
The {True Song} requires consent for the most part, it can't take what people don't want to give at least on some level, but people don't know that.

Ethea like that exist. That's all I'll say.


@NotteBoy97 @sheep-dodger @noncannon Ya'll will at least get to see a full description rather than just a name for an {Inverted} in 1.12


Also, for those that were discussing, the Title of 1.12 has nothing to do with the {Heartstaff}.

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It's probably the heartbreak of our family when we die. Or literally our heart being broken.

Just my own paranoia speaking

 

[noncannon]

It probably has to do with the Standard Procedure Brainwashing for powerful entities like us. We're not completely rewritten, due to the distributed soul and Eevie's separateness, but the only true resistance our Forest self provides is deep in the gnarled undergrowth, where it offers nothing more than a memory of something missing, a glimpse of what should have been, a fleeting feeling of... heartbreak.

Edit: or it could just be the POV of the wolf pack who doesn't really know any better

 

[Alectai]

@NotteBoy97 @sheep-dodger @noncannon Ya'll will at least get to see a full description rather than just a name for an {Inverted} in 1.12

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Hahah!

We did roll another {Inverted}?!?

Is it the same one or did we get a different one?

 

[Slyvena]

@Alectai
You're still eligible for [My Beautiful Pain], but this is a different one.
It might be my memory failing me, but I don't think you've ever actually hit the same Ethos twice in a row so far.

 

[Alectai]

@Alectai
You're still eligible for [My Beautiful Pain], but this is a different one.
It might be my memory failing me, but I don't think you've ever actually hit the same Ethos twice in a row so far.

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Interesting!

I wonder if this one'll be more palatable then? Can you tell us what Event unlocked this one? Or does it happen in the next update?

 

[Silverking]

Also: considering that we're about to learn our namesake, I'd expect that we'll have a rarer version of the namesake ethos up for grabs next time we get to select one.

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I'm not betting on a rarer version of [Namesake], but a better understanding of what it entails. As Slyvena had said, rarer Ethos are not necessarily more powerful, but more focused and specific. The issue the first time we got it was that it was practically a mystery box compared to the other options. Now that we have context we can decide whether it's worth our time.

The 'Meanwhile across the Ocean' interlude option would have shown you what one of those can look like.

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This was the one where I believe Slyvena said that "Why not?" was an accurate description of the events going on. "Oh, your little wolf attack killed only 1,000 people? And the Watch from one village was enough to bring it down in one night? How quaint."

Ya'll will at least get to see a full description rather than just a name for an {Inverted} in 1.12

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Personal theory: Inverted Ethos are when you look at a part of society that has disappointed you and said "Screw all y'all". Apotheotic Ethos are when you look at ALL OF REALITY and say "SCREW ALL Y'ALL!"

It's probably the heartbreak of our family when we die. Or literally our heart being broken.

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The smart money is that Sarah's revelation about our name is going to be something we may not have really wanted to hear. The longshot bet is that it's referring to use breaking the Heart of Darkness responsible for the wolf invasion, either literally (smashing the core open) or figuratively ("All it ever wanted was to conquer the forest and subjugate all life! What gives you the right to trample on its dreams?")

 

[Slyvena]

("All it ever wanted was to conquer the forest and subjugate all life! What gives you the right to trample on its dreams?")

Click to shrink...

Arena Announcer: "You know what we've all come to see tonight! Two dreams in a forest. But there can only be one! FIGHT!!"

Edit: 10K <- 26/12/20
11K

 

[sheep-dodger]

I'm not betting on a rarer version of [Namesake], but a better understanding of what it entails. As Slyvena had said, rarer Ethos are not necessarily more powerful, but more focused and specific. The issue the first time we got it was that it was practically a mystery box compared to the other options. Now that we have context we can decide whether it's worth our time.

Click to shrink...

That's actually exactly why I think it'd be a higher rarity version. If we get the story for who our namesake was and why mom was so insistent of naming us after her I figure we'll get get a better understanding of what an ethos related to our name would entail and thus be more focused in application, meaning a higher rarity.

 

[noncannon]

[Sensible??? Decisionmaking] (Inverted):
Some people take great care in considering the consequences of their actions. Others just YOLO All-In at the first shiny that vaguely aligns with their goals. To adopt this ethos is to embrace the heart-pumping excitement of the world to its fullest degree, up until the rollercoaster finally crashes down to its final stop. Surely we can keep just ahead of that point... right? {shiny!}

[Correcting the Dictionary] (Inverted):
Most people, upon discovering that reality does not match their preconceptions, adjust their expectations to fit. A rare few plow through, deciding that the actual truth may be substituted for their own. Through your namesake, and through your recent decisions, you have become eligible for the path of stubborn insistence in the face of all contrary evidence. It is too bad that reality does not simply change because you wish it so... or does it? {...maybe?...}


...

Haruhi Suzumiya: "the first one is interesting... but the second one really speaks to me, for some reason!" *casts vote*


Edit: the original second ethos is [By the Book], I suppose.

 

[Silverking]

If we're using the "counter-cultural" theory for Inverted Ethos, I think the main difference between an Inverted and, say, [Nihilist Roots] or even [Deviant Wanderer], is that Inverted Ethos are specifically a response to recent emotional pain, and a need to address it NOW. One possible example:

[Flip the Board] (Inverted): So, you just got screwed over by some fancy politicking, the loser of a game you didn't know you were playing. Your foes (and even your friends) say that you need to "play the rules as presented", curry favor from your betters, make the compromises, cut off those who don't grant you any profit, and do whatever is necessary to win. And then one day, it'll be YOU who screws over some poor good-intentioned girl who doesn't know any better. How about no? Your opponents have been profiting off of unbalanced rules, but there are SO many ways to use the system to bring them low. Exploit the loopholes, use the letter of the law to crush the spirit, and outright cheat if you must. Because it's not about whether you win or lose, it's about making sure nobody EVER wants to play this game again.

 

[Alectai]

Mmm, I don't know about that. But we'll certainly have an idea what they mean with a second point of data.

 

[Half Moon]

I am terribly excited for this next update. And Silverking, I like your idea. But we shall see. We shall see.

 

[Edifier]

The {True Song} requires consent for the most part, it can't take what people don't want to give at least on some level, but people don't know that.

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That's awesome. So little bit of persuasion is what it takes to take a person the whole way.
And with the cleaver of fortune~, the right words to make them want it are always just a few syllables away.

 

[Slyvena]

Good news everyone. Writing is done!
I'll handle the proofread tomorrow so barring any unexpected volcanoes or tsunamis (2020 amiright?) I should get the chapter out then.

Edit: (I mean I live in East Australia, so GMT+10, my 'tomorrow' is a little offset from most of the English-speaking world 💁‍♂️ )

 

[sheep-dodger]

I for one am F5-ing furiously!

It also occured to me that since the time you pick your Ethos is roughly known and that there are static conditions to unlock Ethea, that people with the means to do so might try to set up conditions artificially so that their offspring get access to a specific Ethos that they themselves had, thus perpetuating some sort of family tradition.

 

[Alectai]

I'll admit I'm sort of vibrating in place right now too, this update is something of grave concern to me!

And yeah, you're pretty much correct? The way things stand, the Powers that Be control the information about this and have the leisure to be able to artificially create conditions suitable to acquiring desired Ethae. It depends if there's any "Don't game the system" precautions in place or not.