It's a Girl's World -- And Lilly wants Adventure

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NotteBoy97 said:
Oh is that what the powers that be do with all the people sent to them? Don't give a shit about what their power is supposed to do they just force fit them into a mold by diverging in ways they want? Like how they were initially going to send Lilly to a temple and force her to heal and only heal until that's all she could do despite her other abilities? Wow that's fucked up even if you get the power of your dreams and it's super useful you're still forced into basically bending it to fit your master's whims.
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I suspect it's what some powers do with some people, because when all you have to make holes with is a drill bit, it's a lot easier to accommodate round pegs than square ones. So when you get a square peg... you whittle it down into round.

On the other hand, this may depend heavily on social status, gender, and other factors.

Women aren't respected, so "just shovel the girls into the places where we need warm bodies with vaguely applicable Ethoi" is probably fairly common.

[spits in disgust]

Nobles are probably encouraged to develop their Ethoi along more "you do you" lines, simply because they're under less pressure to conform. And because on some level, society has a tacit expectation that they'll have useful, effective powers that make it easier for them to rule, so institutions will tend to evolve to enable that.

People with frontline combatant Ethoi, be they male or female, probably get more freedom to develop, though. Simply because raw effectiveness is likely to override other factors on the battlefield. Furthermore, the sheer diversity of Ethos threats makes any concept of standardization or formation fighting into something of a joke unless it's specifically enabled by someone else's Ethos (e.g. that Singer lady).

...

It's like, on the broadest scale of social organization, society itself shapes women to take the [Service to Man] Ethos; I suspect most smaller-scale organizations within society are doing something similar, with varying degrees of intentionality and overt awareness of what they're doing.
 
On another topic, I feel like when we have the chance, we should use our Major Relations Slot to increase our Artifact limit. I feel like between [Shine, My Gentle Heart] (at least future levels) and [My Resolution, Thy Bedrock], we should be able to make a potent "Better mental state" Artifact for Zach (or maybe Myah if she still inverts or both). We obviously can't revise our vote, but we should be able to do this later on.
 
Eh I think we're going to need our Major slot to deal with how the fuck are we going to take Petal with us when we inevitably leave cause we'll need Relations, Imposition, and Dissolution stuff to do that so I'm not sure if we can use a Major slot on anything else in the meantime.
 
NotteBoy97 said:
Eh I think we're going to need our Major slot to deal with how the fuck are we going to take Petal with us when we inevitably leave cause we'll need Relations, Imposition, and Dissolution stuff to do that so I'm not sure if we can use a Major slot on anything else in the meantime.
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We should be able to do this before then. We will need Imposition and Dissolution to do that, while expanding the Artifact slot will only take 3 hours + 30 for recovery. We also need either Artifact level 2 or Relations level 2 to be able to get Impostion or Dissolution (or use a major slot to expand for an unknown amount of time).

This would be both doing something New with relations (thus relations exp and closer to relations lvl 2) and would allow us to make another artifact and thus make it easier to get to Artifact level 2. This would in fact get us closer to being letting us take Petal with us.

On the sheet under Mental Load it says

::Required to unlock a third Aspect::
Relations or Artefacts Lvl 2
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GlassMask said:
On another topic, I feel like when we have the chance, we should use our Major Relations Slot to increase our Artifact limit. I feel like between [Shine, My Gentle Heart] (at least future levels) and [My Resolution, Thy Bedrock], we should be able to make a potent "Better mental state" Artifact for Zach (or maybe Myah if she still inverts or both). We obviously can't revise our vote, but we should be able to do this later on.
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We can just...outright embed our Essence powers in stuff and people, by now. I don't think we're going to need Relations slots to do that so much.
 
Personally I would like an artefact based off our Danger Sense Cleaver power to see if we can tell if our family is going to be in danger or something. Cause I feel an artefact there could be very good if we're going to be constantly facing dangers
 
TheBiggerFish said:
We can just...outright embed our Essence powers in stuff and people, by now. I don't think we're going to need Relations slots to do that so much.
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Fair I kinda forgot about that. I still think its a good idea to expand our Artifact Slots though with a major relations slot. Artifacts seem really powerful and super impressive, and its not too time intensive when it comes to things we can do.
 
GlassMask said:
Fair I kinda forgot about that. I still think its a good idea to expand our Artifact Slots though with a major relations slot. Artifacts seem really powerful and super impressive, and its not too time intensive when it comes to things we can do.
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Two counter Arguments first they cost gravitas and second they are probably based on Lillys understanding of the source power.
 
NotteBoy97 said:
Eh I think we're going to need our Major slot to deal with how the fuck are we going to take Petal with us when we inevitably leave cause we'll need Relations, Imposition, and Dissolution stuff to do that so I'm not sure if we can use a Major slot on anything else in the meantime.
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we already have an answer for this through {Riemannian Geometer} though? Like, we'd not be bringing our Locus along, but the non-Euclidian nature of Essence strands mean that we're always in range of the Locus and Petal. And once we level up {Slipstream} more we can always go back to the Locus if we want to.
My main concern wrt Petal and the Locus would be to relocate the Prime Tree to somewhere safer, but who knows how relevant that consideration is going to be once we actually met in the waking world.

Also: I wonder if [Dream Within The Forest] was just too uncommon to be known to the Lore Warden, cause even if that was our only Ethos I can't imagine they'd ship someone off to healing school if they'd known what it can do vis-a-vis Pithe regeneration (although admittedly getting the Locus and thus the functionally infinite Essence source was a later addition that was in no way guaranteed), that alone should've been enough to get us collected by the Noosemen I'd bet.
 
Reminder that even if Dream is like in the top 10 Essence Ethos in the world (might be exaggerating a little since I don't have the quote on hand) it's actually really hard to use and figure out. We luckily reached a very deep understanding of it by getting coma'd under Petal but if we didn't we would have had a lot more trouble using Dream. Like iirc we wouldn't even understand the Golden Strands for a while if we didn't ace some rolls which is the basics of the basics
 
I've been thinking on concordance again.
But first let me think a bit on our automated junction sense.

Pre-factor.
Post-factor.
Gravitic actor-factor.

I think they are related to how much concordance can influence them. Before event and after event.

No horizon event would become almost impossible to change, that -90%, while Valerie has 0%.

I'd assume that gravitic actor factor refers to cleavers potential influence, assuming it is used right. To both pre and post.

The past is not set in stone. Rather, it's set in the concord, and the concord is open to revisions and edits.



Now to my thoughts on concordance.


Fractured are like gates that can manipulate the concord layer and view it.
Fractures are choices, events, things that are recorded to have happened, or predicted to happen.

The concord is reality, the record of all events from unlikeliest to likeliest, their fate, and their importance. They're always changing.

I get that high fracture users live with the awareness of multiple potential presents, pasts, and futures.
They can put weight onto fracture far and wide, working on a macro scale, long distant futures, looking how events merge, coincidances come together. Or alternatively prooning undesirable futures off. They view any number of parts of the concord they desire. Possibly even travel using fractures.

Low fracture users live in a single timeline, their advantage is defensive. Low fracture messes with other concordance users because there is only a single line of action for them.
They still use fractures, like Lilly's sample space. For a fracture of a moment the potential futures are revealed and then cllapsed again. Their powers are limited to a micro scale, potential futures in the present. You can do 10 different things today and cherry pick the best path.

Tension is stored in the soul, everyone has access to it, it's related to the actions people are committed to and the things that have been committed to in the past.
You need tension to pull on the concord both information and events themselves. Tension is used to snap things in place, or out of place. It's used to radically alter time, or subtly alter the concord.

High tension users work on a macro scale as they have a lot of weight to throw around.
They operate where tension is mostly static, the past and future. They can set things in stone, they can unmake events in the past and alter the how of things unfolding. Setting up dominos and trying together seemingly unconnected events.

Low tension users work on a micro scale. They operate where the tension is most chaotic, the present. Where people's wills clash.
They are built to handle wild fluctuations of tension and to tug on them to benefit the user.
Events just go in their favour.
 
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NotteBoy97 said:
Reminder that even if Dream is like in the top 10 Essence Ethos in the world (might be exaggerating a little since I don't have the quote on hand) it's actually really hard to use and figure out. We luckily reached a very deep understanding of it by getting coma'd under Petal but if we didn't we would have had a lot more trouble using Dream. Like iirc we wouldn't even understand the Golden Strands for a while if we didn't ace some rolls which is the basics of the basics
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That'd be a difficulty for anyone with a new Essence ethos though. Now granted, Lilly is at the peak of what's possible really when it comes to Essence sight, but anyone who uses essence in their ethos would need to understand essence sight in some fashion I'd imagine, I don't think that's the hard part tbh. It's honestly surprising that the Lore Warden would dismiss us so quickly, given what abilities exist down the line for an Ethos that at first glance couldn't do much. I'd expect them to be more aware of the potential that Ethea can develop later even if they have a rough start. Makes me wonder how many other Ethea are being wasted here and in the other low kingdoms because the power structures fail to identify how to properly make use of them
 
sheep-dodger said:
That'd be a difficulty for anyone with a new Essence ethos though. Now granted, Lilly is at the peak of what's possible really when it comes to Essence sight, but anyone who uses essence in their ethos would need to understand essence sight in some fashion I'd imagine, I don't think that's the hard part tbh. It's honestly surprising that the Lore Warden would dismiss us so quickly, given what abilities exist down the line for an Ethos that at first glance couldn't do much. I'd expect them to be more aware of the potential that Ethea can develop later even if they have a rough start. Makes me wonder how many other Ethea are being wasted here and in the other low kingdoms because the power structures fail to identify how to properly make use of them
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Lilly got the ability to heal so well trough the synergy with bedrock. This is a major factor.

Before that it was either a trick with sample space or simply trying to fill the target with essence and guided by recalled genesis.

His tests where accurate. And no doubt once Lilly read shipped to her tower she would be encouraged to develop in that direction.

But the healing is from synergy with bedrock. Since it gives Lilly the other half the tester was looking for.


Essence also has spellcraft. Lilly just innovated herself into discovering it.
There is also Lilly being brute force, she commented how finding tricks and refined techniques for using essence optimally and efficiently would help a lot. Learning from the less fortunate.
 
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...It has just occurred to me that the Thing That Happened To Yolun might be the same thing that happened to Null. "It's nothing personal" that Null was hurting us...And so was Corrupted!Yolun reported as targeting our brothers "for the thrill of it".

...Also, while I'm doing my Nth reread - we should ask Captain Martin why it was important we not know what was happening with the dungeon.

Reread Continueth:
Slyvena said:
Essence itself seems to rejoice at the transition in a celebratory emanation you didn't think it was capable of.
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Yalsfreet, is that you?

I wonder if Harmuph's portcullis absolutely should have stopped Lilly but she did some Space Fuckery without being particularly aware that she was so doing. I'm not given to expect that that sort of defense has holes the size of An Entire Child.
 
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Actually. We have seen the Diviner redefine the past and the future, and we have been told that precommitment to a course of action makes it all the clearer for the Diviner to notice and mess with.

We know that Lord's retinue has a Concordance user. I expect that in the broader terms, we - the Watch and Lilly - are precommited to opposing and killing them.

Now look me in the eye and tell me that they won't be coming for us with their eyes open - as opposed as blind to the likeliness of conflict. And tell me that whatever Oath users they have including IIRC the Lord themselves wouldn't be attuned specifically to counter the known assets of the Watch.

On a side note, remember Loyal Steed Ethos? The very first power of it that Evie revealed to us is exactly in line with what Martin told us to expect - an ability that can, slowly, alter our overall capabilities by shifting around traits of Lilly and Chariot.

And actually. This is the third Unique Ethos already we know of, besides Quickwrit Stennovoker and the other girl's (the one coming here on a mission from GodFlower). Despite the reported disappearance of the Spirits, they are still very much invested in the world if they take time and effort to craft person-specific Ethae.
 
Faraway-R said:
Now look me in the eye and tell me that they won't be coming for us with their eyes open - as opposed as blind to the likeliness of conflict. And tell me that whatever Oath users they have including IIRC the Lord themselves wouldn't be attuned specifically to counter the known assets of the Watch.
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We do have the Hybrid Siphon casting a pretty decent veil, but...yeah, no. We can't assume that will work.
 
So, possible catches to the Problem based on my thonks while driving home.

1) It's possible that "Stop Me" is just as ridiculously over the top as everything else we've seen her order, and we fine red mist her in our first move. I hope that's not the case, as our mind and soul are free while it's just our body that's current locked down (Which means we should have discretion on how to execute an order because we're still capable of thinking and applying our powers). A universal order like "Stop!" would still lock us down, but "Stop Me" when our mind and soul are free should allow us to handle that in a manner of our choosing. The whole "Lean into the wind" theory. This is a regrettable outcome, but if it saves the rest of the family, we'll have to bite the bullet.

2) We should probably get word to Captain Martin that one of his best got turned inside out sooner rather than later.

3) Myah might be a big help in the "Stabilization" phase once we've gotten Valerie subdued. (I'm presuming us no going into Epilogue means we do get Valerie under control eventually)

4) Why can't I hold all of these anxious feels?

5) I do hope if we do win we get a cut from Valerie's perspective as the "YOU DONE GOOFED" moment begins to dawn on her.

6) I'm really, really glad we picked up Relations, it might be the only thing that lets us break the command on the rest of the family, by letting them borrow Hybrid Siphon to chip away at it.

7) Evie's going to get another ginormous pile of XP out if this, isn't she? Coming out on top vs an Apotheotic Ethos is probably no small feat.

8) If we can reform Valerie and turn her into an ally, and if Marigold gets in our camp, we've probably got a team that can actually take on Waters and his coterie
 
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Could be!

Now, since I have time to explain myself now that I'm off rotation, the reason I didn't put much support into the other plan boils down to "Time is very much of the essence, and throwing more shit at the wall in hopes we land on the perfect plan before we run out of time to execute it is perilous as fuck and introduces too much RNG". A decent plan executed on time always beats a perfect plan that comes too late, and the failcon I see for this one boils down to "Lilly underestimates her strength and scatters Valerie across a hundred miles of space", which is less a fail and more a suboptimal success.

I'm also not willing to count on Petal having gotten out of that STOP command unscathed, hence why I didn't immediately resort to delegating to her. Again, even Evie was hit by the STOP command, and she's a Transcendent, Petal is just a virtual machine copy of Lilly's own mindstate running on different hardware but regularly transmitting information back and forth. Evie did not get hit by it as hard of course (Which is why she could work at degrading the command right away), but the fact is that she got hit at all was the big tip-off to me that we probably can't be certain Petal is fine too. This is an all-spectrum assault that probably breaks the rules.

Notably though, a distinct parallel is drawn when the STOP command fires to what happened to Lilly when Colossi intruded, complete with a similar feel. Considering that the final Ethos we saw was a ???, we only know of two remaining unrevealed Sources--and one of those was namedropped in our Foundation pick as Legend (Which is almost certainly the second Source that [Dream Within the Forest] operates on), and with only three letters in it, I'm willing to bet that the final Source is Maw.

And Lilly has Inner Maw Awareness in that context.

So the fact she drew a direct link to [Will Winnower]'s Command and Colossi's intrusion suggests to me that [Will Winnower] is Maw Source, not Flow or Oath or anything we've seen, it "Devours" the ability to refuse a command on such a level that even things you should have no control over submit and obey. It's a gigantic push that removes everything but the desired command--and is probably why the simplest form of it are mono-syllable phrases that blast away your ability to consider or do anything else and tends to make the target useless for anything else--unlike what you'd expect from a mind control Ethos. It's not actually mind control, it's a soul attack that just blasts away your ability to do anything but what she told you to do. A bomb where we were expecting a rapier, and all the skill in the world doesn't help you when the other side detonates a grenade on your face.

In a sense, it's a frighteningly powerful ability because there's very little that can resist it--Evie was mostly okay probably because she was only partially hit, and Primordial Chassis also blunted the sharpest edge of the attack, but fucking nothing else seems to have contributed except our Universal Defense.

Aboleath then, I suspect is either a sublet of Colossi or a separate sublet of the Maw operating on a different scale--for whatever reason, the Maw seems to have made it a priority to establish beachheads in the Melange Layer and start seizing these Divine Fragments, whatever it is they are.

And Lilly refusing Colossi has really pissed it off. He's probably going to take action to retaliate somewhere.
 
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NotteBoy97 said:
God I wish we had an omake bonus for +10 to all rolls this update cause I'm going to be so sad if someone dies because of rolls cause the update title is not filling me with confidence.
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If I had chosen the "bonus to rolls for a chapter", this would probably be the one I would have spent it on. On the other hand, I spent it on getting a boost to Ladder, which ended up allowing us to stay home and potentially get things in order instead of being kidnapped by Lord Waters, so I'm not really regretful on that front.

I do have an idea for an omake that I could probably get done by tomorrow, but whether or not it would be count towards such a bonus would be up to the mercy of Slyvena, and that's assuming that they would be amenable to redoing whatever rolls and consequences that have already been determined.
 
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