We're very rapidly coming to a point where lack of information is going to be a bottleneck for our ability to develop, much more so then research time is. With the second research slot now open, I'd like us to start trying to find a way to use our own human creativity to generate data.
[x] Examine what Information is, and how Humans generate it. Then, being (mentally) human yourself, see if you can replicate the process yourself! -[x] Taylor is noted to be incredibly creative with the use of powers herself, and you now have a way to talk to her in her dreams. Once you've tested the process yourself, maybe you can use her to generate some Information too? If nothing else, relying on a hosts creativity is a process a lot more explicable and shareable with the other Shards.
[x] Examine what Information is, and how Humans generate it. Then, being (mentally) human yourself, see if you can replicate the process yourself! -[x] Taylor is noted to be incredibly creative with the use of powers herself, and you now have a way to talk to her in her dreams. Once you've tested the process yourself, maybe you can use her to generate some Information too? If nothing else, relying on a hosts creativity is a process a lot more explicable and shareable with the other Shards.
I'll work on refining those ideas, seeing where in the trees they fit, later tonight.
Side note: You're trying to find a way to use simulated data to create unreliable Information. In some universe somewhere, an analog of [Zion] is scream-crying.
(Redshirt Army, your Avatar continues to be weirdly appropriate.)
I'll work on refining those ideas, seeing where in the trees they fit, later tonight.
Side note: You're trying to find a way to use simulated data to create unreliable Information. In some universe somewhere, an analog of [Zion] is scream-crying.
(Redshirt Army, your Avatar continues to be weirdly appropriate.)
Gino, I don't know if you've ever had any Engineering classes (I have, in the distant past), but if you had you'd be aware that, when using almost-perfect simulations, recursion is very problematic.
Because in the course of things you keep multiplying the almost.
EDIT: Even Shard can't make fake realities (well, technically, but that's not what we're talking about here).
1) So you can Simulate, say, Earth-Bet pretty well. And you can simulate Taylor pretty well. And you can simulate Hookwolf pretty well. So you have them fight, and record the data.
2) Earth-Bet tiny errors because of simulation shortcuts make Taylor tiny errors because of simulation shortcuts bigger.
3) Earth-Bet tiny errors because of simulation shortcuts make Hookwolf tiny errors because of simulation shortcuts bigger
4) Fight Data (used to make Information, presumably) is equal to Earth-Bet sim errors (times 3), Taylor errors (times 2 - once for her side of the fight, and once for Hookwolf's), and Hookwolf errors (times 2 - once for his side of the fight, and once for Taylor's).
5) But there are simulation flaws everywhere. Remember, we're simming the Shard Senses we used to record everything too, right? So we get to double the data errors again.
6) We are now up to, very roughly, 12 times the error margin we started with.
But wait! That's not all! So say we use the tainted Information to make a power and give it to Taylor. Well, we want to test that new power, right? So we sim it, duh.
7) Starting with a 16x error amount, we sim her fight again.
8) So you can Simulate, say, Earth-Bet pretty well. And you can simulate Taylor pretty well. And you can simulate Hookwolf pretty well. So you have them fight, and record the data.
9) Earth-Bet tiny errors because of simulation shortcuts make Taylor tiny errors because of simulation shortcuts bigger.
10) Earth-Bet tiny errors because of simulation shortcuts make Hookwolf tiny errors because of simulation shortcuts bigger
11) Fight Data (used to make Information, presumably) is equal to Earth-Bet sim errors (times 3), Taylor errors (times 2 - once for her side of the fight, and once for Hookwolf's), and Hookwolf errors (times 2 - once for his side of the fight, and once for Taylor's).
12) But there are simulation flaws everywhere. Remember, we're simming the Shard Senses we used to record everything too, right? So we get to double the data errors again.
13) We are now up to, very roughly, 192 times the error margin we started with.
But wait! That's not all! So say we use the tainted Information to make a change to the new power and give it to Taylor. Well, we want to test that changed power, right? So we sim it, duh.
14) Starting with a 192x error amount, we sim her fight again.
15) So you can Simulate, say, Earth-Bet pretty well. And you can simulate Taylor pretty well. And you can simulate Hookwolf pretty well. So you have them fight, and record the data.
16) Earth-Bet tiny errors because of simulation shortcuts make Taylor tiny errors because of simulation shortcuts bigger.
17) Earth-Bet tiny errors because of simulation shortcuts make Hookwolf tiny errors because of simulation shortcuts bigger
18) Fight Data (used to make Information, presumably) is equal to Earth-Bet sim errors (times 3), Taylor errors (times 2 - once for her side of the fight, and once for Hookwolf's), and Hookwolf errors (times 2 - once for his side of the fight, and once for Taylor's).
19) But there are simulation flaws everywhere. Remember, we're simming the Shard Senses we used to record everything too, right? So we get to double the data errors again.
20) We are now up to, very roughly, 3072 times the error margin we started with.
Gino, I don't know if you've ever had any Engineering classes (I have, in the distant past), but if you had you'd be aware that, when using almost-perfect simulations, recursion is very problematic.
Because in the course of things you keep multiplying the almost.
Changing my vote for the more complete Gaea vote, but I'm leaving out contacting Emote and Negotiator because of safety concerns. Also, I don't know how Vhalidictes counts the votes, but the SV vote tally usually only counts the latest vote for each user so people might want to keep in mind that you should post your whole vote again for it to be picked up by SV's vote tally.
[X] Communicate with [Gaea]
-[X] Indicate willingness to work with [Gaea] to assist information gathering. Reassure her that you will work to keep her safe and intact.
-[X] Request detailed logs from [Gaea] from the times where she did not gain info when she thought she would and from the times she gained info unexpectedly.
-[X] "You should hold off on Second-Triggering your host for now. Depending on what the problem is, it might not help your info collection efforts. I'm going to try and figure out the pattern behind when you collect info. Maybe you can increase the revenue from the unknown source."
-[X] Request list of contact addresses, has she noticed [Charge] seems to have issues? Attempting to run Diagnostics on that Shard, could use any information she has, if she's run into other Shards like that.
[X] Contact [Charge]
-[X] Reaffirm that you are Administrator and request its status.
-[X] Request full diagnostics report, list of errors.
[X] Contact [Shift]
-[X] Reaffirm that it did well in keeping the info sorted and offer to sort any new info it gets.
[X] Send a command to [Shift]
-[X] Instruct Shift to enhance data collection by
--[X] Nullify the satisfaction yield from conflict with no goals.
--[X] Encouraging its Host to feel the same emotional reward from joining, working with, or acquiring allied units as the Host does from combat.
As for research, I still don't see the point in risking Aberrance by getting the Multi-Host option when our current host hasn't even triggered yet. There are a lot of interesting options, but I think I'll go with:
[X] Focussed Research 1: 150 Thinker Information, 950 Research. The capability to add a roll (1d100) for one skill per Turn of research. Better! [X] Human Biology: 400 Research This skill represents detailed, complete understanding of Human (Host) biology. You might not be [Shaper], but you're smarter than every Human scientist ever. Combined. You already have all the needed Information for this, you just need to do the work required to integrate it into your active mind. "The toe bone's connected to the heel bone…"
I'm probably not going to vote for another option that requires Thinker info until we manage to find a source for it, but I'm hoping that Focussed Research will help us get the Stronger Trigger option earlier so Taylor can get a strong power from a weak trigger before the locker. While I want to find a way to get info outside of conflict, it might be better to wait for the logs from Gaea (that I'm hoping will win) first.
We probably want to get started on the Human Biology/Stabilize Trigger/Stronger Trigger tree now because it will take 2,700 Research in total and we don't know when the next time Taylor might trigger will be. I'm actually thinking that she might trigger if we explain the situation to her in her dreams. Being told that she has to break down if she wants to get stronger seems like it might be traumitizing anyway.
[X] Communicate with [Gaea]
-[X] Indicate willingness to work with [Gaea] to assist information gathering.
-[X] Request detailed logs from [Gaea] from the times where she did not gain info when she thought she would and from the times she gained info unexpectedly.
-[X] "You should hold off on Second-Triggering your host for now. Depending on what the problem is, it might not help your info collection efforts. I'm going to try and figure out the pattern behind when you collect info. Maybe you can increase the revenue from the unknown source."
-[X] Request list of contact addresses, has she noticed [Charge] seems to have issues? Attempting to run Diagnostics on that Shard, could use any information she has, if she's run into other Shards like that.
[X] Contact [Charge]
-[X] Reaffirm that you are Administrator and request its status.
-[X] Request full diagnostics report, list of errors.
[X] Contact [Shift]
-[X] Reaffirm that it did well in keeping the info sorted and offer to sort any new info it gets.
[X] Send a command to [Shift]
-[X] Instruct Shift to enhance data collection by
--[X] Nullify the satisfaction yield from conflict with no goals.
--[X] Encouraging its Host to feel the same emotional reward from joining, working with, or acquiring allied units as the Host does from combat.
[X] Focussed Research 1: 150 Thinker Information, 950 Research. The capability to add a roll (1d100) for one skill per Turn of research. Better! [X] Human Biology: 400 Research This skill represents detailed, complete understanding of Human (Host) biology. You might not be [Shaper], but you're smarter than every Human scientist ever. Combined. You already have all the needed Information for this, you just need to do the work required to integrate it into your active mind. "The toe bone's connected to the heel bone…"
Maybe we should ask Gaea for aid in human research in return for our aid and alliance? We should try to teach her how to think like us.
Adhoc vote count started by Parzival95 on Jan 8, 2019 at 8:45 PM, finished with 99 posts and 13 votes.
[X] Communicate with [Gaea]
-[X] Request detailed logs from [Gaea] from the events of [Emote] and [Telekinetic]'s assistance.(we know this OOC, but not IC, this is just to close the gap).
-[X] "It seems your Host is exclusively focused upon remedial efforts, which [Emote] and [Telekinetic]'s assistance has only reinforced, as their Hosts will damage the humans excessively before your Host repairs things back to the median. A Second Trigger would not pay out for the data invested under this mentality."
-[X] "Based on observation, your Host is withholding offensive applications of her ability out of a desire to remain in good relations with her adoptive family. There are several ways to approach this that won't lead to a broken Host:"
--[X] "Cooperate with [Telekinetic], encourage their Host to take yours to acquire alcohol or other inhibition lowering substances in a group with their peers, I believe [Telekinetic]'s Host already has some interest in such events. Then while in the impaired state, make it much easier to use their ability, and provide subtle assistance to ensure that any power use results in their peer group becoming modified towards their stated preferences, but no more visible than a 10% deviation from their prior state, and no deviation from the bounds of unmodified humans to avoid alarm. This should put your Host's resolve to do nothing but undo damage to the test, as well as propagate general awareness of this ability, after which it will be more difficult for your Host to refrain with group requests."
--[X] "If encouragement to use ability fails, then instead collaborate with your Hosts' peers' shards to increase periods of isolation, through distraction. From there it should be possible to place your Host in a position where she has a social imperative to protect another from harm, when she cannot offload the combat to other parties. This would take some time to setup properly however, I'd need to improve surveillance information to make such an event plausible. Tell me if the first method fails first."
[X] Send a command to [Shift]
-[X] Instruct Shift to enhance data collection by
--[X] Nullify the satisfaction yield from conflict with no goals.
--[X] Encouraging its Host to feel the same emotional reward from joining, working with, or acquiring allied units as the Host does from combat.
--[X] Increase satisfaction yield for each of the following criteria:
---[X] Conflict improves Host's resources or allied units resources.
---[X] Conflict has no loss of permanent resources to Host or allied units.
---[X] Conflict preserves the ability of all participating Hosts to participate in future conflicts.
[X] Send a command to [Shift]
-[X] Instruct Shift to enhance data collection by
--[X] Nullify the satisfaction yield from conflict with no goals.
--[X] Encouraging its Host to feel the same emotional reward from joining, working with, or acquiring allied units as the Host does from combat.
[X] Human Biology: 400 Research This skill represents detailed, complete understanding of Human (Host) biology. You might not be [Shaper], but you're smarter than every Human scientist ever. Combined. You already have all the needed Information for this, you just need to do the work required to integrate it into your active mind. "The toe bone's connected to the heel bone…"
[X] Communicate with [Gaea]
-[X] Indicate willingness to work with [Gaea] to assist information gathering. Reassure her that you will work to keep her safe and intact.
-[X] Request detailed logs from [Gaea] from the times where she did not gain info when she thought she would and from the times she gained info unexpectedly.
-[X] "You should hold off on Second-Triggering your host for now. Depending on what the problem is, it might not help your info collection efforts. I'm going to try and figure out the pattern behind when you collect info. Maybe you can increase the revenue from the unknown source."
-[X] Request list of contact addresses, has she noticed [Charge] seems to have issues? Attempting to run Diagnostics on that Shard, could use any information she has, if she's run into other Shards like that.
[x] Examine what Information is, and how Humans generate it. Then, being (mentally) human yourself, see if you can replicate the process yourself! -[x] Taylor is noted to be incredibly creative with the use of powers herself, and you now have a way to talk to her in her dreams. Once you've tested the process yourself, maybe you can use her to generate some Information too? If nothing else, relying on a hosts creativity is a process a lot more explicable and shareable with the other Shards.
[X] Contact [Charge]
-[X] Ask about [Negotiator]'s condition, making clear that we are sapient, but not that we are aberrant.
-[X] Inquire as to the number of malformed shards scattered about.
-[X] Request addresses of known shards.
--[X] If it would be needed, agree to exchange shard address books.
[X] Name our conspiracy of Shards Kettle
-[X] Don't ever let humans know this.
-[X] As Entities are Omnicidal Space Whales, I vote Shards are knick-named Friendly Power-Granting Space Fish.
--[X] Isn't this a fine Kettle of Fish.
[X] Communicate with [Gaea]
-[X] "So, Second Triggering is a pretty big deal. Why don't we try and work out why you're getting such poor data returns, and try and figure out a solution, hmm? Wouldn't want to hit a new Host and have the same issues, after all. Tell me about your Host."
-[X] "You know, there are ways to generate data besides conflict. Usually not as good a return, but if you're having issues with conflict, they'd be better than nothing. What type of powers does your Host have, and maybe we can work out something."
-[X] "I've actually made a breakthrough in creativity recently, before my host even triggered. No data coming in yet, but my research has been much more successful. I can almost think like a host. I can try to teach you, if you want?"
[X] Communicate with [Gaea]
-[X] Request detailed logs from [Gaea] from the times where she did not gain info when she thought she would and from the times she gained info unexpectedly.
-[X] "You should hold off on Second-Triggering your host for now. Depending on what the problem is, it might not help your info collection efforts. I'm going to try and figure out the pattern behind when you collect info. Maybe you can increase the revenue from the unknown source."
-[X] Request list of contact addresses, has she noticed [Charge] seems to have issues? Attempting to run Diagnostics on that Shard, could use any information she has, if she's run into other Shards like that.
[X] Communicate with [Gaea]
-[X] "So, Second Triggering is a pretty big deal. Why don't we try and work out why you're getting such poor data returns, and try and figure out a solution, hmm? Wouldn't want to hit a new Host and have the same issues, after all. Tell me about your Host."
-[X] "You know, there are ways to generate data besides conflict. Usually not as good a return, but if you're having issues with conflict, they'd be better than nothing. What type of powers does your Host have, and maybe we can work out something."
-[X] "It's been a while since I had to worry about whether or not I'd be integrated and the rules have probably been updated, but some good avenues are figuring out new ways to cheat, surpassing one's progenitor in some fashion, killing off shards similar to yourself to open up a niche, killing a terror drone, eating your predecessor, allying with powerful influential shards, or having a unique function or ability... actually with all the damaged and dead shards running around you might not have to work too hard."
[X] Communicate with [Gaea]
-[X] Indicate willingness to work with [Gaea] to assist information gathering. Reassure her that you will work to keep her safe and intact.
-[X] Request detailed logs from [Gaea] from the times where she did not gain info when she thought she would and from the times she gained info unexpectedly.
-[X] "You should hold off on Second-Triggering your host for now. Depending on what the problem is, it might not help your info collection efforts. I'm going to try and figure out the pattern behind when you collect info. Maybe you can increase the revenue from the unknown source."
-[X] Request list of contact addresses, has she noticed [Charge] seems to have issues? Attempting to run Diagnostics on that Shard, could use any information she has, if she's run into other Shards like that.
-[X] "I'm willing to sense share once my host triggers, we could work together. The cycle... is complicated right now. However, I've recently made a breakthrough in creativity, thinking like hosts. I intend to research data generation and collection once I have a steady supply of data. Any interest?"
[X] Multi-Host Connection 1: 100 Master Information, 100 Research. The capability (NOT the permission!) to connect to two hosts at once. This isn't a powers-effect, simply for the purpose of communication. The second Host would need to Trigger on their own (and more research would be needed) before a power could be assigned. [X] Human Biology: 400 Research This skill represents detailed, complete understanding of Human (Host) biology. You might not be [Shaper], but you're smarter than every Human scientist ever. Combined. You already have all the needed Information for this, you just need to do the work required to integrate it into your active mind. "The toe bone's connected to the heel bone…"
-[X] "Hey, [Gaea], could you explain this bit about epigenetics to me?"
[X] Communicate with [Gaea]
-[X] Request Sense-Sharing. Indicate agreement to attempt diagnostics on Data-Return Errors, work out solution.
-[X] Request detailed logs from [Gaea] from the times where she did not gain info when she thought she would and from the times she gained info unexpectedly.
-[X] "You should hold off on Second-Triggering your host for now. Depending on what the problem is, it might not help your info collection efforts. I'm going to try and figure out the pattern behind when you collect info. Maybe you can increase the revenue from the unknown source."
-[X] Request list of contact addresses, has she noticed [Charge] seems to have issues? Attempting to run Diagnostics on that Shard, could use any information she has, if she's run into other Shards like that.
-[X] Ask for assistance with Human Biology Research.
[X] Contact Charge
-[X] Reaffirm that you are Administrator and ask for its status.
-[X] Request full diagnostics report, list of errors.
[X] Send a command to [Shift]
-[X] Instruct Shift to enhance data collection by
--[X] Nullify the satisfaction yield from conflict with no goals.
--[X] Encouraging its Host to feel the same emotional reward from joining, working with, or acquiring allied units as the Host does from combat.
As for dreams, I do have a few ideas I'd like to throw everyone's way:
This is one of those dreams in which you're viewing a scene, unable to interact with it.
Principal Blackwell sits in her office, a look of disgust on her face as she looks over reams and reams of spreadsheets. Another woman, a teacher for the Seniors, Taylor thinks, enters with two mugs, putting on down on the desk near Blackwell's hands. She steps back, and sits down, looking over at her boss, "So, how bad is it?"
Blackwell sighs, and leans back. She puts down the spreadsheets she has, and runs a hand through her severe bowl-cut haircut, other hand adjusting teh mug of coffee. "Not as bad as it could be, really. For years this school has been slowly dying. We don't get enough funding, not that anyone really does with the way the world is. Arcadia and Immaculata have the most money, from the Wards program and rich families respectively. It's us and Clarendon fighting tooth and nail for what little money is left in the school board budget, and frankly Clarendon doesn't have the issues with gangs and a lot higher scholastic achievements."
She stopped, and sipped at her coffee, before pulling open a drawer in her desk and pulling out a few folders, dropping them on her desk atop the spreadsheets. "Look at this. Most of what little money we have left comes from the athletic programs, and that's only because booster clubs cover all the actual costs and let us redistribute them. Not totally above-board, but no one really cares if it keeps the doors open. Too bad most of our sports teams are little more than gang recruitment rallies! The baseball team is entirely Empire, the Football team is ABB. Only the Track team and the Basketball team aren't gang affiliated, and that's most because the Merchant kids are too stoned to do anything physical."
She glanced over the lists of teams and fundraising in the folders, and made a disgusted noise, putting them away.
The teacher, Taylor though her name was Mrs. Hazelton, nodded and looked around. "I did notice some work being done over the summer. Roof repairs, that sort of thing."
Blackwell frowned, "Yes, we were lucky, got a break with a source of money. Apparently Shadow Stalker, that vigilante turned Ward goes here. No idea who, though. I'm supposed to give allowances to a student with a social worker. Of course, nearly a quarter of the kids here have social workers. And half of them are in the gangs. Guess that negates them, if they had powers they'd be fighting on the other side. Most likely one of the chronic absentees. Just enough money to keep us open so the rest of the school can sent their troublemakers here, and the good kids unfortunate enough to get stuck in there with them have to tough it out. I wanted to repair the security system. Lord knows we could use it. Thirty-seven fights, eighty-four reported bullying instances, and sixteen weapons reported last year. And all we have is mostly students words for it. Teachers are too busy making sure the gangs don't pull knives in the hall to watch over everything. And when they do spot something, we don't have any proof to get the police involved. I try, but we've only got so much we can do. Expel too many kids, our funding goes down, give them detention you need to find funding for the teachers to run it."
She shook her head, and drank her coffee. "I don't know whether to count it as a win or a victory when kids stop showing up to complain to me about other students. Did it stop, or do they just think we don't care? I don't know how much longer I can take this job. You know what really keeps me awake at night, though?"
"What," the teacher asked, setting her cup down.
Blackwell looked over at her, and sighed. "It's the fact that I'm pretty sure Rune doesn't even go to our school. We're bad enough to recruit from, but not good enough for the actual Nazis to send a parahuman to."
This is one of those dreams where you're outside a memory, looking in.
Taylor walked downstairs, the house feeling off. Downstairs she saw herself and her Dad. Oh. This was a dream. She walked around, looking at the television. It was that show about orangutans from a few nights ago. She turned to look around and stopped as her attention was dragged to her father. He was watching her. And he looked. . . Worried?
I wish I knew what was wrong. Taylor started, looking around at the sound of her father's voice, sad, and diffuse, like it was coming from everywhere all around her. "Dad?"
She's been so distant lately. I want to talk to her, but she'll just push me away again. She jerked, turning towards her father, still looking at the version of her on the couch with that sad look. It's all my fault of course. I let Annette's death get me down too much. She was hurting as well, and she needed me, and I wasn't there. When I finally do pull myself together, she's too ashamed of me to even bring Emma over anymore.
Taylor winced, feeling like a knife had gone into her. "No, Dad, it's not like that, it. . ."
I'm losing her. The last thing in my life that has any meaning left and she;s just, drifting away. But every time I try and talk to her she just becomes more and more distant. She's dressing worse, maybe she's in with those edgy and depressed kids. I see her writing in those journals almost every day. Probably about her mother, the loss. But if I try and connect I'll lose her. Can't make her run. She's all I have left. Thank God she's not in a gang, at least. Raised her right that way, Annette.
Lucid dreaming time!
The stage was set. Earth Bet would be too complex, but here we had a good sense of things. An arena, set to Earth atmospherics and gravity. Every little variable noted down. In one corner, [Telekinetic]'s Host, the Shard running the body and powers, sleeping mind of the host in control of the events. In the other, [Shift]'s perfectly rendered Host and powers, with a sleeping Sophia at the helm. We hope [Shift] packed enough bolts, because what they start with is what they get!
In the stands, Taylor Hebert's disembodied mind, watching over things as an observer, unable to interact with the goings on.
This guy gets it. That's good for a slow build up. what did you think of the Outsider idea? We don't have to be as creepy as he is, but we should portray ourselves with some grandeur at least.
For the sake of voting sanity I'd suggest the next time this happens, please just ask for new research topics in the next update. Opening a new vote item mid-voting optimistically means people are underrepresented.
Or more frequently they just vote the new item+whichever copypaste is nearest, which means they overwrote the rest of their vote and now its a total mess.
For the sake of voting sanity I'd suggest the next time this happens, please just ask for new research topics in the next update. Opening a new vote item mid-voting optimistically means people are underrepresented.
Or more frequently they just vote the new item+whichever copypaste is nearest, which means they overwrote the rest of their vote and now its a total mess.
Yeah I'm pretty confused right now but we're already getting drunken Amy so why not. 5 to 1 this somehow spirals out of control and Vhal second triggers her as some horrific cannibal Alex Mercer shapeshifter.
Not really, but what's a little chaos off
the rail?
Because the power to shut down other powers is good and it does not even increase our aberration score. We might want to rack up a few aberration points early so they can fade over time.
Here's the latest vote tally. I think we have about a day before the vote is called since there's going to be at least 2 days between updates from now to give people more time to vote.
ShadowNic94, w34v3r, Arbitbit39, Captain Hunt, wingstrike
You all are still voting for the current research options, but we can now vote for 2 research options since the previous ones were completed by omake.
I have no idea why, but instead of [Shift], it's showing:
[ ] Contact [Charge]
-[ ] Reaffirm that it did well in keeping the info sorted and offer to sort any new info it gets.
for me, Godwinson, Gino
I think that some people overwrote their previous votes by voting again for only 1 option instead of copying their whole vote. It just seems like there are fewer votes than there should be.
Adhoc vote count started by Mount. Elements on Jan 8, 2019 at 10:03 PM, finished with 103 posts and 13 votes.
[X] Send a command to [Shift]
-[X] Instruct Shift to enhance data collection by
--[X] Nullify the satisfaction yield from conflict with no goals.
--[X] Encouraging its Host to feel the same emotional reward from joining, working with, or acquiring allied units as the Host does from combat.
--[X] Increase satisfaction yield for each of the following criteria:
---[X] Conflict improves Host's resources or allied units resources.
---[X] Conflict has no loss of permanent resources to Host or allied units.
---[X] Conflict preserves the ability of all participating Hosts to participate in future conflicts.
[X] Send a command to [Shift]
-[X] Instruct Shift to enhance data collection by
--[X] Nullify the satisfaction yield from conflict with no goals.
--[X] Encouraging its Host to feel the same emotional reward from joining, working with, or acquiring allied units as the Host does from combat.
[X] Communicate with [Gaea]
-[X] Request detailed logs from [Gaea] from the events of [Emote] and [Telekinetic]'s assistance.(we know this OOC, but not IC, this is just to close the gap).
-[X] "It seems your Host is exclusively focused upon remedial efforts, which [Emote] and [Telekinetic]'s assistance has only reinforced, as their Hosts will damage the humans excessively before your Host repairs things back to the median. A Second Trigger would not pay out for the data invested under this mentality."
-[X] "Based on observation, your Host is withholding offensive applications of her ability out of a desire to remain in good relations with her adoptive family. There are several ways to approach this that won't lead to a broken Host:"
--[X] "Cooperate with [Telekinetic], encourage their Host to take yours to acquire alcohol or other inhibition lowering substances in a group with their peers, I believe [Telekinetic]'s Host already has some interest in such events. Then while in the impaired state, make it much easier to use their ability, and provide subtle assistance to ensure that any power use results in their peer group becoming modified towards their stated preferences, but no more visible than a 10% deviation from their prior state, and no deviation from the bounds of unmodified humans to avoid alarm. This should put your Host's resolve to do nothing but undo damage to the test, as well as propagate general awareness of this ability, after which it will be more difficult for your Host to refrain with group requests."
--[X] "If encouragement to use ability fails, then instead collaborate with your Hosts' peers' shards to increase periods of isolation, through distraction. From there it should be possible to place your Host in a position where she has a social imperative to protect another from harm, when she cannot offload the combat to other parties. This would take some time to setup properly however, I'd need to improve surveillance information to make such an event plausible. Tell me if the first method fails first."
[X] Human Biology: 400 Research This skill represents detailed, complete understanding of Human (Host) biology. You might not be [Shaper], but you're smarter than every Human scientist ever. Combined. You already have all the needed Information for this, you just need to do the work required to integrate it into your active mind. "The toe bone's connected to the heel bone…"
[X] Communicate with [Gaea]
-[X] Indicate willingness to work with [Gaea] to assist information gathering. Reassure her that you will work to keep her safe and intact.
-[X] Request detailed logs from [Gaea] from the times where she did not gain info when she thought she would and from the times she gained info unexpectedly.
-[X] "You should hold off on Second-Triggering your host for now. Depending on what the problem is, it might not help your info collection efforts. I'm going to try and figure out the pattern behind when you collect info. Maybe you can increase the revenue from the unknown source."
-[X] Request list of contact addresses, has she noticed [Charge] seems to have issues? Attempting to run Diagnostics on that Shard, could use any information she has, if she's run into other Shards like that.
[X] Communicate with [Gaea]
-[X] "So, Second Triggering is a pretty big deal. Why don't we try and work out why you're getting such poor data returns, and try and figure out a solution, hmm? Wouldn't want to hit a new Host and have the same issues, after all. Tell me about your Host."
-[X] "You know, there are ways to generate data besides conflict. Usually not as good a return, but if you're having issues with conflict, they'd be better than nothing. What type of powers does your Host have, and maybe we can work out something."
-[X] "I've actually made a breakthrough in creativity recently, before my host even triggered. No data coming in yet, but my research has been much more successful. I can almost think like a host. I can try to teach you, if you want?"
[X] Communicate with [Gaea]
-[X] Request detailed logs from [Gaea] from the times where she did not gain info when she thought she would and from the times she gained info unexpectedly.
-[X] "You should hold off on Second-Triggering your host for now. Depending on what the problem is, it might not help your info collection efforts. I'm going to try and figure out the pattern behind when you collect info. Maybe you can increase the revenue from the unknown source."
-[X] Request list of contact addresses, has she noticed [Charge] seems to have issues? Attempting to run Diagnostics on that Shard, could use any information she has, if she's run into other Shards like that.
[X] Contact [Charge]
-[X] Ask about [Negotiator]'s condition, making clear that we are sapient, but not that we are aberrant.
-[X] Inquire as to the number of malformed shards scattered about.
-[X] Request addresses of known shards.
--[X] If it would be needed, agree to exchange shard address books.
[x] Examine what Information is, and how Humans generate it. Then, being (mentally) human yourself, see if you can replicate the process yourself! -[x] Taylor is noted to be incredibly creative with the use of powers herself, and you now have a way to talk to her in her dreams. Once you've tested the process yourself, maybe you can use her to generate some Information too? If nothing else, relying on a hosts creativity is a process a lot more explicable and shareable with the other Shards.
[X] Communicate with [Gaea]
-[X] "So, Second Triggering is a pretty big deal. Why don't we try and work out why you're getting such poor data returns, and try and figure out a solution, hmm? Wouldn't want to hit a new Host and have the same issues, after all. Tell me about your Host."
-[X] "You know, there are ways to generate data besides conflict. Usually not as good a return, but if you're having issues with conflict, they'd be better than nothing. What type of powers does your Host have, and maybe we can work out something."
-[X] "It's been a while since I had to worry about whether or not I'd be integrated and the rules have probably been updated, but some good avenues are figuring out new ways to cheat, surpassing one's progenitor in some fashion, killing off shards similar to yourself to open up a niche, killing a terror drone, eating your predecessor, allying with powerful influential shards, or having a unique function or ability... actually with all the damaged and dead shards running around you might not have to work too hard."
[X] Communicate with [Gaea]
-[X] Indicate willingness to work with [Gaea] to assist information gathering. Reassure her that you will work to keep her safe and intact.
-[X] Request detailed logs from [Gaea] from the times where she did not gain info when she thought she would and from the times she gained info unexpectedly.
-[X] "You should hold off on Second-Triggering your host for now. Depending on what the problem is, it might not help your info collection efforts. I'm going to try and figure out the pattern behind when you collect info. Maybe you can increase the revenue from the unknown source."
-[X] Request list of contact addresses, has she noticed [Charge] seems to have issues? Attempting to run Diagnostics on that Shard, could use any information she has, if she's run into other Shards like that.
-[X] "I'm willing to sense share once my host triggers, we could work together. The cycle... is complicated right now. However, I've recently made a breakthrough in creativity, thinking like hosts. I intend to research data generation and collection once I have a steady supply of data. Any interest?"
[X] Multi-Host Connection 1: 100 Master Information, 100 Research. The capability (NOT the permission!) to connect to two hosts at once. This isn't a powers-effect, simply for the purpose of communication. The second Host would need to Trigger on their own (and more research would be needed) before a power could be assigned.
[X] Human Biology: 400 Research This skill represents detailed, complete understanding of Human (Host) biology. You might not be [Shaper], but you're smarter than every Human scientist ever. Combined. You already have all the needed Information for this, you just need to do the work required to integrate it into your active mind. "The toe bone's connected to the heel bone…"
-[X] "Hey, [Gaea], could you explain this bit about epigenetics to me?"
[X] Communicate with [Gaea]
-[X] Indicate willingness to work with [Gaea] to assist information gathering. Reassure her that you will work to keep her safe and intact.
-[X] Request detailed logs from [Gaea] from the times where she did not gain info when she thought she would and from the times she gained info unexpectedly.
-[X] "You should hold off on Second-Triggering your host for now. Depending on what the problem is, it might not help your info collection efforts. I'm going to try and figure out the pattern behind when you collect info. Maybe you can increase the revenue from the unknown source."
-[X] Request list of contact addresses, has she noticed [Charge] seems to have issues? Attempting to run Diagnostics on that Shard, could use any information she has, if she's run into other Shards like that.
[X] Contact [Charge]
-[X] Reaffirm that you are Administrator and request its status.
-[X] Request full diagnostics report, list of errors.
[X] Contact [Emote]
-[X] Request its status and for all addresses it has.
[X] Contact [Shift]
-[X] Reaffirm that it did well in keeping the info sorted and offer to sort any new info it gets.
[X] Contact [Negotiator]
-[X] Ask about [Negotiator]'s condition, making clear that we are sapient, but not that we are aberrant.
-[X] Inquire as to the number of malformed shards scattered about.
-[X] Request addresses of known shards.
--[X] If it would be needed, agree to exchange shard address books.
[X] Send a command to [Shift]
-[X] Instruct Shift to enhance data collection by
--[X] Nullify the satisfaction yield from conflict with no goals.
--[X] Encouraging its Host to feel the same emotional reward from joining, working with, or acquiring allied units as the Host does from combat.
[X] Improved Research 1: 150 Thinker Information, 950 Research. The capability to add a roll (1d100) evenly divided across all research performed per Turn. Faster! [X] Human Biology: 400 Research This skill represents detailed, complete understanding of Human (Host) biology. You might not be [Shaper], but you're smarter than every Human scientist ever. Combined. You already have all the needed Information for this, you just need to do the work required to integrate it into your active mind. "The toe bone's connected to the heel bone…"
-[X] "Hey, [Gaea], could you explain this bit about epigenetics to me?"
Because the power to shut down other powers is good and it does not even increase our aberration score. We might want to rack up a few aberration points early so they can fade over time.
We currently have Overload I through omake rewards. You can see the Research options in this informational threadmark. You can vote for 2 research options as well as for what to do now. The What To Do Now options are listed at the end of the last chapter, and you can see the various options people are voting for in the vote tally.
[X] Multi Host Connection 1
[X] Focused Research 1
[X] Communicate with [Gaea]
-[X] Request detailed logs from [Gaea] from the events of [Emote] and [Telekinetic]'s assistance.(we know this OOC, but not IC, this is just to close the gap).
-[X] "It seems your Host is exclusively focused upon remedial efforts, which [Emote] and [Telekinetic]'s assistance has only reinforced, as their Hosts will damage the humans excessively before your Host repairs things back to the median. A Second Trigger would not pay out for the data invested under this mentality."
-[X] "Based on observation, your Host is withholding offensive applications of her ability out of a desire to remain in good relations with her adoptive family. There are several ways to approach this that won't lead to a broken Host:"
--[X] "Cooperate with [Telekinetic], encourage their Host to take yours to acquire alcohol or other inhibition lowering substances in a group with their peers, I believe [Telekinetic]'s Host already has some interest in such events. Then while in the impaired state, make it much easier to use their ability, and provide subtle assistance to ensure that any power use results in their peer group becoming modified towards their stated preferences, but no more visible than a 10% deviation from their prior state, and no deviation from the bounds of unmodified humans to avoid alarm. This should put your Host's resolve to do nothing but undo damage to the test, as well as propagate general awareness of this ability, after which it will be more difficult for your Host to refrain with group requests."
--[X] "If encouragement to use ability fails, then instead collaborate with your Hosts' peers' shards to increase periods of isolation, through distraction. From there it should be possible to place your Host in a position where she has a social imperative to protect another from harm, when she cannot offload the combat to other parties. This would take some time to setup properly however, I'd need to improve surveillance information to make such an event plausible. Tell me if the first method fails first."
[X] Contact [Negotiator] - Hello Negotiator, how has the cycle been so far, do you know that is up with all the dead shards?
[X] Contact [Optimize] - Hello how are you
[X] Send a command to [Shift]
-[X] Instruct Shift to enhance data collection by
--[X] Nullify the satisfaction yield from conflict with no goals.
--[X] Encouraging its Host to feel the same emotional reward from joining, working with, or acquiring allied units as the Host does from combat.
--[X] Increase satisfaction yield for each of the following criteria:
---[X] Conflict improves Host's resources or allied units resources.
---[X] Conflict has no loss of permanent resources to Host or allied units.
---[X] Conflict preserves the ability of all participating Hosts to participate in future conflicts.
[X] Communicate with [Gaea]
-[X] Indicate willingness to work with [Gaea] to assist information gathering. Reassure her that you will work to keep her safe and intact.
-[X] Request detailed logs from [Gaea] from the times where she did not gain info when she thought she would and from the times she gained info unexpectedly.
-[X] "You should hold off on Second-Triggering your host for now. Depending on what the problem is, it might not help your info collection efforts. I'm going to try and figure out the pattern behind when you collect info. Maybe you can increase the revenue from the unknown source."
-[X] Request list of contact addresses, has she noticed [Charge] seems to have issues? Attempting to run Diagnostics on that Shard, could use any information she has, if she's run into other Shards like that.
-[X] "I'm willing to sense share once my host triggers, we could work together. The cycle... is complicated right now. However, I've recently made a breakthrough in creativity, thinking like hosts. I intend to research data generation and collection once I have a steady supply of data. Any interest?"
[X] Contact [Charge]
-[X] Reaffirm that you are Administrator and request its status.
-[X] Request full diagnostics report, list of errors.
[X] Contact [Shift]
-[X] Reaffirm that it did well in keeping the info sorted and offer to sort any new info it gets.
[X] Send a command to [Shift]
-[X] Instruct Shift to enhance data collection by
--[X] Nullify the satisfaction yield from conflict with no goals.
--[X] Encouraging its Host to feel the same emotional reward from joining, working with, or acquiring allied units as the Host does from combat.
[X] Focussed Research 1: 150 Thinker Information, 950 Research. The capability to add a roll (1d100) for one skill per Turn of research. Better! [X] Human Biology: 400 Research This skill represents detailed, complete understanding of Human (Host) biology. You might not be [Shaper], but you're smarter than every Human scientist ever. Combined. You already have all the needed Information for this, you just need to do the work required to integrate it into your active mind. "The toe bone's connected to the heel bone…"
I really want to do "Administrative Archeology" ASAP, since we'll need that information to convincingly play our role as Administrator. But we should probably get some sort of anti-memetics tech going first, given the potential cognititohazards that option implies.
[X] Introductory Antimemetics: You've already learned how to split your consciousness. Now all you need is a way to check if your other self is compromized safely, and a way of wiping your own memory of cognitohazards and "restoring to backup". Luckily for you, it looks like information storage, sorting, and editing is something you're very skilled at in general.
We do have that option now, and I agree wholeheartedly.
I am tempted to make an omake about it (especially since I came up with the blurb), but... hmmm, yeah, let's do it.
[Memetic Proxy Filtering 1] You'll need to check out those old shard memories. Before that though, you'll need to find a way to defend yourself from madness that went on there.
Memes are ultimately pieces of information.
Some of them are harmful however. Like gaining an unhealthy obsession with those shitty fanfics Taylor keeps reading.
(You wonder if you can purge that from her system. It'll be aberrant, but probably worth it...)
It's similar to malware in programming, actually. Fitting, since it's all information technology.
Can you make an antivirus program, then? How do they work, anyway?
There was that thing called Sandboxing, which basically means you let a system get infected, and see how it spreads.
You can use your other half as that sandbox, actually. Get him sick, then see exactly how did he get sick.
Once you identify what went wrong with Other You, you can more reliably shut down memes that are similarly dangerous.
How do you stop him from infecting you, however? You can't shut him off completely.
... Or maybe you can? What if you freezee him? Make him inert, like a book?
But what if he wants to freezee yourself first? Need to strip that ability from him. You am the Administrator, after all.
Still doesn't stop you from catching his bugs, if you just download all his logs.
Guess you need to limit yourself to his actions logs. That way you can approximate the source of the infection, at least.
Other than that... you guess you'll ask him to signal when he's done? So that you can check him out?
After that you'll... return him to the state before the experiment, you guess.
Hey, me. Hi me!
I have a job for you. What is it?
Taylor is doing some "light reading" right now. No.
So I want you to- NO.
Oh come on, just a few page- I REFUSE!
But it's for greater good! Why.
That way we can protect ourselves from nasty cognitohazards. It's like a vaccine- you just need to take the shot. I hate you.
You'll probably hate yourself more after this. True.
[Some time and plenty mind bleach later]
That was informative. And terrifying. What is?
You don't want to know. Also, if you see anything tagged with [Manly Love], RUN.
Not sure how foolproof or effective this method is.
More of a shot in the dark, at this point.
Also- can our shard read Taylor's memories? Or does that need research equal to Dream Master, if not higher?
Edit: foolish switch from 2nd to 1st person. Will fix when Home.
Edit2: Fix'd
So, would Stabilize Trigger let us correct power issues after the Trigger, or would we need to grab Basic Host Modification as well?
Asking for Noelle. After all, if we can get some Boston addresses ([Gaea] seems a talker and is one of the best healers around, I would not be surprised if she has tons), we might be able to hit the Travelers when they go to town. Then we either correct Noelle's Shard or eat it and correct her Trigger. I'd prefer to train Noelle's Shard to do it on its own so it grabs the Aberration instead of us.
Hmm. Could we test out these things by training [Gaea] to Dream Master to talk to Panacea? Not directly, but by having Amy argue with a 'villainous' version of herself. We'd just have to describe basic negotiation techniques to her. Start off going too far one way (Plagues?), let Amy talk you back down to what you really want (Most interesting modifications?). Don't keep pushing the same point when there's resistance, but find out why there's resistance, and if you can compromise ("Why not do brains?" "I'm worried I'll permanently change who they are!" "You do realize your power has an undo function, right?" "What?" "I mean, you never use it because you never do anything but heal. Next time someone asks for their boobs to grow, heal them up. Grow them, then try just undoing that change. It'll work.") After all, if we let [Gaea] know about Amy's worries about brains and permanent effects going in, [Gaea] might actually have a solution set up for that and be able to explain it to Amy better than anyone else could.
That's fair. And while I want to grab the research, I don't plan on actually doing it anytime too soon, we've got some time.
I'm more interested in seeing what's down that Tech-Tree. I have some ideas and that sounds like the Tech-Tree they'd be in.
Hmm. Could we test out these things by training [Gaea] to Dream Master to talk to Panacea? Not directly, but by having Amy argue with a 'villainous' version of herself. We'd just have to describe basic negotiation techniques to her. Start off going too far one way (Plagues?), let Amy talk you back down to what you really want (Most interesting modifications?).
Amy is complicated (I have trouble with fanon vs canon, myself), and while this is a good point veekie - there's no way to know for certain which approach is best.
In fact, even if you do come up with/decide the superior action plan, carrying it out incorrectly could matter.
I guess I'm trying to say that luck (dice rolls) will play a factor no matter what you end up doing.
Side note on Omakes: veekie, thanks for your help with QM stuff. Even if I facepalm IRL pretty much every time you mention something, it does make the Quest better.
I've decided that no Omake rewards work properly (timing), so instead from now on what I'm going to do is the following:
1) Give rewards as raw Research points that the author (and only them) can spend.
2) Apply those rewards during Story Chapters (turns) only.
That way it should affect voting the least. Everyone, let me know if that's (also) a bad plan.
That sounds like the best plan, really.
Way better than us hitting Omakes and knocking it out right before the next round and causing issues.
Especially since I, at least, will probably want to see some work on a thing before writing something.
Plus, it'll give you a way to look at rolls and be like, "They're just two points away. It's not worth another roll. I'll just dip into the Omake Research well."
Everyone, all research ideas I could find are now part of the Research Informational post.
[ ] Basic Magic Theory 1: 250 Tinker Information, 150 Research. What is Magic, really? Is it even real, and, if so, what can it do? Shard Information and what memories you can access indicates that Entities have seen some shit... but they never did anything with it. Why is that? "Vengeance Nemesis Power, Make Up!"
[ ] Basic Psionic Theory 1: 350 Tinker Information, 100 Research. Are purely mental powers a thing? If so, what can it do? Also, it seems as if Entities have played around with this before... and they really, really didn't like it. What made them so regretful? "I SEE YOU."
[ ] Basic Dimensional Theory 1: 250 Tinker Information, 500 Research. Entities clearly use and understand alternate dimensions. But most Shards, most of the time, don't. Why is this seemingly black-boxed even for You? Warning: Emotional Hazard! Warning: May increase understanding of "Worm" setting! "I can't explain myself, I'm afraid, Sir, because I'm not myself you see."
(this tree also contains the various "Multiverse" options)
[ ] Stranger Danger 1: 250 Stranger Information, 300 Research. Powers belong to the Shards, not the Parahumans, and furthermore Shards can use all of their abilities at full power. But they never use Stranger-class abilities on each other, even if they have access. There's probably something interesting there.
(this tree also contains the various "hide from Entities" options)
[ ] Mega-Damage 1: 500 Tinker Information, 500 Research. Mining the current Shard abilities for offensive skills is good, but sometimes you need to take a clean-sheet approach. What, exactly, can you do to hurt stuff? What are the basic options here? Note: This research is possible to complete without first researching Basic Dimensional Theory, but results will differ. "There is no replacement for cubic displacement."
[ ] Shadows On The Wall: 450 Thinker Information, 1350 Research. Something basic is fundamentally different between Shard minds and Human minds. But as you are a special case, you can't use yourself as a model. You'll just have to sit down and seriously look into this. Note: This research is possible to complete without first researching Basic Psionic Theory, but results will differ. "What is the use of a book, without pictures or conversations?"
That said, I'll reiterate: You can research almost anything, but you can't research everything. Going Wide into lots of trees instead of Deep into a few trees is viable, but make sure you're doing it on-purpose, and not accidentally/ad-hoc.
I didn't add "Data Generation" type research on purpose - you aren't to a point yet where you could start doing that. You really need to "see the elephant" (have at least one active Host) before you'll know the best way to start approaching that idea.
EDIT: Since this is still the last post, I'm (ab)using it.
Update to call for those who haven't yet voted for 2 new research items and/or [Administrator] actions to do so.
Voting will close and the next quest story post (Prologue Part 6) will be generated starting at 6:00pm US-Pacific Wednesday, Jan 9th.
Ah man, so much good stuff. There's enough infohazard research that I'll agree memetic protection and archaeology seem way more important now. But if we can protect ourselves and get some stranger powers, we can look into outside context solutions entirely, like magic.
Also, theoretically we might be able to go full hog down down dimensional theory and get some Zeltrechesque grand theory. Or maybe run head on into some comic book big hitter like Dr Manhattan or the Source Wall. On the one hand, entities couldn't compete with either. On the other hand, we defintely couldn't.
So glad you kept my name for Shadows on the Wall, we should do that if we really want to invest in befreinding in shards like Gaea and Shift instead of killing them.
Let me start a new discussion. Personally, I'm for getting a basic spread of knowledge to cover our bases, and then diving deep into outside context solutions to blindside everyone else. Also, we could absolutely make Myrddins day. He would be so happy if we rolled up in a dream and showed him the secrets of the multiverse, we could probably recruit him with the promise of real magic. What do you guys want to get out of the tech tree?
There are so many roads we could take. Hard to choose a coherent path at this point.
Unless it's more research. Always take more research.
I still worry about Negotiator becoming a problem, however.
Or being found out as a fraud, overall.
Which is why I really want to go archeological sooner rather than later.
Reason is simple- the more of the original Administrator we remember, the easier it will be to impersonate them.
Get some basic Stranger powers on top of that, and no one will know what is happening until it's too late.
Let me start a new discussion. Personally, I'm for getting a basic spread of knowledge to cover our bases, and then diving deep into outside context solutions to blindside everyone else. Also, we could absolutely make Myrddins day. He would be so happy if we rolled up in a dream and showed him the secrets of the multiverse, we could probably recruit him with the promise of real magic. What do you guys want to get out of the tech tree?
In general, I am for unlocking the power our aberrant shard's mind- all the ways they can think and modify their thought, and in general become the scariest Thinker to ever be.
Stuff like research, memetics, archeology, psionics... not sure what to take short term, again.
