[HALP] me! (WORM quest)

[The_GrandMage]

You can also vote against something by replacing the X with a space, like this:
[ ] Plan Zombie!Annette

Click to shrink...

I'm pretty sure automatic vote counting won't parse that that way (Do you have some evidence it will?)
So I'm pretty sure that's only accurate if you're doing the manual vote counting, which is probably not the best precedent to set.

Also, I am highly amused by the number of people who suggest Shaman as a power, using a version of Annette, but vote against Zombie!Annette.
Since so far we'd be making sims of Annette in both.

 

[ccstat]

Looks like I am wrong and we need to explicitly vote against plans with NOT (insert plan here). Last time I used it the automatic vote counter gave me for/against tallies, but that was before the site update and I can't find a way to make the current version count things that way. Sorry to spread misinformation.

I see a huge difference between Shaman and Zombie Annette, personally. First, the psychology of interacting with a ghost/memory versus a zombie is very different and I would far prefer the former to the latter for Taylor. Second, Zombie Annette as presented has us directly impersonating Taylor's mother and performing all of our avatar's actions with that persona, while Shaman inherently dissociates Administrator from Annette in terms of actions and motivations. I don't like the conflation of the Zombie approach.

 

[Vhalidictes]

This is literally in the early Informational posts.
Also, no, you have to explicitly vote against something for it to count. Not voting one way or another is just abstaining from that topic.

I'm beginning to think Vhal should break voting into two sections. One to propose ideas, which are gathered together at the end and it's decided which are mutually exclusive or would take too much time to do all together. Them a vote period to just select from the mutually exclusive or vote for or against ideas. It would simplify things a lot and make it so that voting periods don't get a glut of "Oh let's do this to!" thrown in.

Click to shrink...

This is a great idea, and I would rather implement something like this than simply tarball together non-blocking votes. That said, I'd have to think about the best way to implement it so it will have to be something I do after this chapter.

(Also I have a Contact plan for both Oni Lee and Dragon's shards with sub votes explaining the reasoning so Vhalidictes can remember what the goal for communicating with them was)

Click to shrink...

Thanks!! Note that I try to go though the thread discussion when starting writing, but it's always helpful to state exactly what you want out of the conversation.

In fact, if there are specific words and phrases you want to see, let me know ahead of time. Conversation-by-vote is already too open to QM interpretation, there's no need to make it worse.

Looks like I am wrong and we need to explicitly vote against plans with NOT (insert plan here). Last time I used it the automatic vote counter gave me for/against tallies, but that was before the site update and I can't find a way to make the current version count things that way. Sorry to spread misinformation.

I see a huge difference between Shaman and Zombie Annette, personally. First, the psychology of interacting with a ghost/memory versus a zombie is very different and I would far prefer the former to the latter for Taylor. Second, Zombie Annette as presented has us directly impersonating Taylor's mother and performing all of our avatar's actions with that persona, while Shaman inherently dissociates Administrator from Annette in terms of actions and motivations. I don't like the conflation of the Zombie approach.

Click to shrink...

First thanks for testing the vote counter. If we can get that working somehow I'd like to try using it again. Second, good thought about memory vs physical re: Annette.

General stuff:

I'm closing voting now.

It's going to take me a while to get all of the info together, at which point I'll post again with the vote totals as I see them. If I'm wrong about something, let me know! Writing takes a while so feel free to correct me if I counted your vote wrong.

Also, last call for me editing in the host-data section of the last chapter. If anyone has (more) thoughts on what they wanted to see there, let me know soon.

 

[Vhalidictes]

One additional point---I was looking at our research options, and noticed this one:

[Lost Time 1]

I had forgotten it was a skill to research, and sort of assumed that this was something we now knew how to do since we had used it for fixing Taylor's brainmeats. It's worth noting that we used several autocrits to do it successfully, so maybe we don't have enough "practice" yet to auto-learn the skill, but I wanted to ask if this one happens to be fully or partially complete by virtue of those actions. What say you, @Vhalidictes?

Click to shrink...

To explain, you researched something so you get to see the next tier - I added those two options, they're new.

RE: "I've done this before" - you have! And it worked. I'm doing secret rolls in the background, but this is true for any Research items: you don't technically need to research them.

What Researching them does is 1) make them auto-succeed, and 2) show you the next tier of stuff. There's (usually) no roll, no chance for critical failure (or successes), it becomes a known thing.

If you choose (vote) to use a technology you know about but haven't researched, let me know and I'll roll out the results. Depending on what you're doing the results could be regrettable, though!

 

[The_GrandMage]

I see a huge difference between Shaman and Zombie Annette, personally. First, the psychology of interacting with a ghost/memory versus a zombie is very different and I would far prefer the former to the latter for Taylor. Second, Zombie Annette as presented has us directly impersonating Taylor's mother and performing all of our avatar's actions with that persona, while Shaman inherently dissociates Administrator from Annette in terms of actions and motivations. I don't like the conflation of the Zombie approach.

Click to shrink...

So you'd prefer for her to interact with an aspect of her power she'll find herself in control off, likely making her turn further inward and establishing the same type of issues in canon instead of having an outside figure to drag her out of her shell and interacting with the world again?

Also, I don't want to have a direct avatar, Zombie!Annette is a plan to ADC a body, get the xp, do a few small actiosn while she's in a state we can excuse memory loss as the sim winds up, and then we pull back out and leave the sim running the body. All the benefits of finishing the quest, with an out to give it up because I like running things from Shardside. Quite frankly, the PRT would take time to clear her and do background checks, and we'd probably have the sim up and backed out before it ever even saw Taylor again.

I was just really hoping to get some sort of authority figure outside Taylor to curtail what I see coming. Because I work with teenagers.

 

[Metoto]

I was just really hoping to get some sort of authority figure outside Taylor to curtail what I see coming. Because I work with teenagers.

Click to shrink...

What could go wrong?

 

[Vhalidictes]

Here are the current vote tallys for the named plans. If I got something wrong, or your vote for a particular plan didn't register, please let me know via PM!

Winning Plans:

+1 - Plan "Alternate" (All-Nighter version) - ccstat, Poliamida, Kejmur, Valdimarian, Parzival95
[1] Eat Alternate
[1] Fix up Night's power with ability to choose changer vs human form
[1] Use info to add Stranger power
[1] ADC Night for our very own meatspace body! (archive Night's consciousness in case we need an undo button for this)

+8 - Plan "Pet Platypus" - Knutlord, FPSCanarussia, Ducats, Valdimarian, Poliamida, Kejmur, Parzival95, Metoto
[8] Use dreams to contact Taylor directly. Take the form of a very cuddly platypus.
[8] Describe in detail that you still need to gather and analyze some data before you provide her power. Ask Taylor, politely, to not do anything rash, because she may die if something goes wrong. Explain in detail how powers function and that some of them are something between sentient and sapient. Make sure she knows that we are not supposed to be communicating with her like this and it would be best for her not to talk about it. Mention that our main specialties are Multitasking and Administration, but we can work with more or less most possible options.
[8] Mention that she already 'half-triggered'. She has access to pretty much perfect photographic memory and the ability to learn new things at an abnormal rate. We recommend that she uses this ability to gain information and start figuring out what needs to be done to fix BB.
[2] Explain to Taylor what powers would likely see her captured. Tell her that current plans to prevent the destruction of Earth ideally require a minion-controlling Master power. Explain that the nature of the threat cannot be shared with humans under normal circumstances.
[3] Suggest that she needs talk to her Father about her problems and issues, and that he could do a lot to help her (if nothing else, he could pull her out of school and have her homeschool/online school) but that he has no way of knowing she needs help if she doesn't ask for it.

+9 - Plan "We are Legion, we are Amy" - ccstat, Dragonbyte, Valdimarian, Poliamida, Kejmur, Parzival95, MirrimBlackfox, DopplerDee, PrinceCharon
[9] Contact Gaea and ask her to stop Claire from making fully functioning clones via putting restrictions of some sort on her power
[9] Explain to her how shards that enable powers to produce organisms endlessly usually get slapped down by Zion which is why nobody does that.
[8] Make an offer to collaborate with Gaea. We exchange some of our data on multitasking and work together on this project. Amy will create her perfect clone, but they will share senses and Amy will be limited on the number of Clones she can command at any given time. Ask Gaea how many clones she believes she can control at the same time, but propose starting with a maximum of 3.
[1] Make an offer to collaborate with Gaea. We exchange some of our data on multitasking and work together on this project. Amy will create her perfect clone, but they will share senses and Amy will be limited on the ammount of Clones she can command at any given time. Ask Gaea how many clones she believes she can control at the same time, but propose starting with a maximum of 7 and agree to meet with Gaea later to change that number.

+6 - Plan "Taylor Informed" - ccstat, Valdimarian, Poliamida, Kejmur, Parzival95, MirrimBlackfox,
[6] After the initial meeting with Taylor (if you do), get her up to speed on the current parahuman politics of Brockton Bay and a primer on the various groups so she knows what pitfalls to avoid and who's relatively trustworthy (not many).
[6] Tell her what's going on with Lilac and Claire, and how we're intervening in that scenario to try and stabilize it. We're kind of hoping she'll join them and make hero or rogue team. That we would prefer that she give us lots of nice data, but that she also be safe and happy while doing so.

+2 - Plan "Update Shard communication SOP" - ccstat, Valdimarian
[2] Update Shard communication SOP to simply ask sapient shards for info list

+2 - Plan "Communicate with (Reconstitute) [Oni-Lee's Shard]" - ccstat, Valdimarian
[2] Good to ping Villain Shards in advance of Taylor triggering, might also be a suitable target for consuming and ADCing.
[2] DO NOT, share Standard Information Package, but check which version it has. (Might help keep Oni-Lee crippled)

+2 - Plan "Communicate with (Systematize) [Dragon/Theresa Richter's Shard]" - ccstat, Valdimarian
[2] We're relatively low on Thinker / Tinker data and HO BOY should Dragon's Shard give us LOTS of both. Plus the number of contacts she's made via The Guild and Endbringer Battles?
[2] DO NOT, share Standard Information Package (don't even hint it might be wrong if sapient, lets NOT make her shard disconnect)

+2 - Plan "Communicate with Negotiator" - ccstat, Valdimarian
[2] Ask to trade as much data as she's willing, up to 2000. We are most able to offer Striker, Breaker, Changer, and Shaker data in exchange for her Thinker info.

+2 - Plan "Communicate with Echolocate (Cricket)" - ccstat, Valdimarian
[2] If Shard is sapient, trade for any Thinker data available

+2 - Plan "Communicate with Knowledge (Uber)" - ccstat, Valdimarian
[2] If Shard is sapient, trade for any Thinker data available


Failed/Blocked Plans:

+2 - Plan "Benevolent Supporter" - DopplerDee, PrinceCharon
[2] Use dreams to contact Taylor directly. Our form would be pretty much her, but look like a 'Queen'.
[2] Describe in detail that you still need to gather and analyze some data before you provide her power. Ask Taylor politely to not do anything rush, because she may die if something goes wrong and promise her that we work on her case. Explain in detail how powers function and that some of them are something between sentient and sapient. Also answer any questions she may have, while also mention that you have foreknowledge about some important people and events on Earth-Bet, including her own person. Present her list of powers again, while also ask for her opinion (while also add in 'Mythical/Fictional Changer' powerset template). Also mention that our main specialties are Multitasking / Control of Biological Creatures (smaller is preferable), but we can work with more or less most possible options.
[2] Mention that she already 'half-triggered' in a way. Currently she has access to pretty much perfect photographic memory and ability to learn new things very fast, at abnormal rate. We recommend that she uses this ability to learn as many things as possible, as learning basics never hurts before 'heroing' is possible.

-1 - Plan "Zombie!Annette" - The_Grandmage, MirrimBlackfox, Valdimarian, ccstat, Parzival95
[-1] Use Basic Host Modification (Human) to change Night's human form to look like Annette Hebert.
[-1] Give her a Thinker power (50 data) to run a sim of Annette's personality based on what info we can get.
[-1] Turn alternate form into undead. Since we (and maybe later the sim) can control the change, this is mostly to screw with Chambers.
[-1] Go to the PRT to get an identity, infiltrate Protectorate, and screw over Coil.

1 - Plan "Devil is in the Details" - The_Grandmage
[1] I propose we change the Avatar, and yes, toning down the wordage (In fact, I already edited it to take everyone's criticism into account). But we need to confront her. Considering she's up to the point of deciding lighting herself on fire is better than talking to her dad, I don't think a polite word will stop her at this stage.

The Power Playoffs!:

Will-mention:

[6] Tattoo-Tinker Healer (Trump) - Valdimarian, Poliamida, veekie, Kejmur, MirrimBlackfox, The_Grandmage
[4] Skittertrump - FPSCanarussia, Valdimarian, The_Grandmage, Metoto
[2] Shaman - ccstat, Ducats
[2] 'Mythical/Fictional Changer' - veekie, Kejmur
[2] Drone Ship - ccstat, Valdimarian
[2] Magical Girl 1 & 2 (I combined these) - Ducats, veekie

Won't-mention:
[1] Anti-Parahuman Healer - ccstat
[1] Telepath - Ducats
[1] Fusion - Ducats
[1] Anti-Parahuman Peacemaker - veekie
[1] The Whisperers - veekie
[1] Behavioral Tinker - veekie
[1] Symbol(ism) Tinker - veekie
[1] Monju - Kejmur
[1] Trolling Shards - The_Grandmage

 

[Metoto]

So, I just had a thought. I was going over the power design descriptions when I realized that Skittertrump could just as well copy powers we give our avatars. So we could, theoretically, just download powers into an avatar, have Taylor add it to her power library and suddenly she can have any powers she has the free slots and we have the necessary data for. Any opinions?

 

[ccstat]

That would work, but it sounds like a needless and potentially problematic workaround when we have direct access. The power description for skittertrump says that inactive copied powers are stored shardside in an archive that Taylor could draw from. Why not just directly edit that library if we want to give her access to something?

I would be concerned about trying to reconfigure the powers of a meatspace avatar too much. The info in the trigger research tree warns that weird things can happen when you mess with the Corona brainbits, even if you are successful. I'd guess that some of those drawbacks don't matter as much when you don't care about preserving a host mind in that brain, but it's certainly not something I'd want to try more than once on any given body.

 

[Valdimarian]

That's weird, how did Unspun and I's votes for Drone Ship get split into two different +1s?

Glad we managed to stop Zombie!Annette, but I guess we're meat puppeting Night now :/

Not sure we actually needed to tell Taylor that she needs a minion master build since as an aberration shard we don't even need Shaper to unlock Kheperi's power.

 

[Metoto]

That would work, but it sounds like a needless and potentially problematic workaround when we have direct access. The power description for skittertrump says that inactive copied powers are stored shardside in an archive that Taylor could draw from. Why not just directly edit that library if we want to give her access to something?

I would be concerned about trying to reconfigure the powers of a meatspace avatar too much. The info in the trigger research tree warns that weird things can happen when you mess with the Corona brainbits, even if you are successful. I'd guess that some of those drawbacks don't matter as much when you don't care about preserving a host mind in that brain, but it's certainly not something I'd want to try more than once on any given body.

Click to shrink...

True enough. Then again, I was just thinking about how this setup would allow us to avoid another 50+ pages of discussion and just give Taylor additional powers on demand.

 

[Vhalidictes]

That's weird, how did Unspun and I's votes for Drone Ship get split into two different +1s?

Glad we managed to stop Zombie!Annette, but I guess we're meat puppeting Night now :/

Not sure we actually needed to tell Taylor that she needs a minion master build since as an aberration shard we don't even need Shaper to unlock Kheperi's power.

Click to shrink...

Rampant tiredness, just the same way I mistook ccstat's name for their avatar pic. Fixed, thanks.

Re: Zombie!Annette, well, it's not going to happen now, but I can tell you that it would have worked out fine in the short term. You got a crazy reaction roll on the Platypus, which is going to be interesting in the short term but might not work out for the best in the longer term.

While I have thoughts about the Platypus dream avatar, I am curious about what's going to happen to Dinah's pet if Taylor ever sees it. It could be embarrassing if she goes up to talk with it, thinking that it's you.

 

[Poliamida]

While I have thoughts about the Platypus dream avatar, I am curious about what's going to happen to Dinah's pet if Taylor ever sees it. It could be embarrassing if she goes up to talk with it, thinking that it's you.

Click to shrink...

Then the answer is clear: we need to find a way to trigger the Platypus, take over him, and give him a tiny fedora.

Maybe ask Bitch's shard how to read animals?

 

[Metoto]

I don't care exactly how it happens, but as long as there's jokes on PHO about the 'Platypus Response Team', I'll be completely satisfied.

 

[The_GrandMage]

I don't care exactly how it happens, but as long as there's jokes on PHO about the 'Platypus Response Team', I'll be completely satisfied.

Click to shrink...

I would need to be paid to make that joke. Maybe someone else will, though.

 

[Qwertystop]

Reading through from the start - something is wrong with threadmarks? Next from 6 is 8, even though both 7s are marked.

 

[ccstat]

Unless that's another artifact from our commitment to give ourself a head start on time travel research? I don't know if the ripples of that ever made their way into the text.

 

[Kejmur]

While I have thoughts about the Platypus dream avatar, I am curious about what's going to happen to Dinah's pet if Taylor ever sees it. It could be embarrassing if she goes up to talk with it, thinking that it's you.

Click to shrink...

It's obvious we need a Worm version of Perry The Platypus and also a Worm version of O.W.C.A. .

Hmmm... it does sounds like a potential omake material.

Maybe ask Bitch's shard how to read animals?

Click to shrink...

A pretty good idea . Honestly experimenting with animals could be a fun project, like seeing how data we gather provides not only powers, but potential sapience.

I think at first it would be best to start with most intelligent animal species (like Chimpanzees), but I think it's doable. Plus with so many animals around, getting additional units in case something goes wrong with Zion wouldn't hurt. Although from what I heard in Ward animal broken triggers are a thing? But obviously we would prefer something far more controlled.

In fact... we could consider Pokemon/Digimon research if we want to go this route.

Unless that's another artifact from our commitment to give ourself a head start on time travel research? I don't know if the ripples of that ever made their way into the text.

Click to shrink...

I think time travel was banned in this quest? Someone correct me if I'm wrong? Like I think it was discussed at one point as too troublesome to deal with for QM? Honestly I also would prefer to avoid it, too many headaches and if we commit here big mistake, it's a BIG issue.

 

[ccstat]

There was a vote to bypass the research process and commit to giving ourselves knowledge about time travel if we ever developed it in the future, which worked but had predictably paradoxical side effects. The QM told us it was a stupid mistake, and most of us voted against pursuing that any further.

Vhal said they planned to go back and edit earlier chapters with some of the discrepancies that resulted from messing with the time line, but I don't know if that actually happened or not.

 

[Poliamida]

Ok, what about:

[]Plan P
-[]Contact Armor and go through the standard sharing package. Request information on how they analize their Host's animal companions.
-[]Contact Systematize and go through the standard sharing package. Request information on how they managed to bond with a non-human and non-biological host.
-[]With the provided data study Dinah's pet searching for a way to bond with it.

 

[Vhalidictes]

There was a vote to bypass the research process and commit to giving ourselves knowledge about time travel if we ever developed it in the future, which worked but had predictably paradoxical side effects. The QM told us it was a stupid mistake, and most of us voted against pursuing that any further.

Vhal said they planned to go back and edit earlier chapters with some of the discrepancies that resulted from messing with the time line, but I don't know if that actually happened or not.

Click to shrink...

I didn't finish some of the edits, thanks for the reminder! Time to get on that... literally.

Also, the background of the time edits aborted timelines were quite interesting and strange, and there's technically nothing stopping you from trying again - although that's what you said the last two times, and Abaddon had to fix things in the end.

 

[The_GrandMage]

Really all our non-canon storyline omakes are part of the lost timelines.

Which means there was a timeline with Armsmaster/Abaddon adventures and Catgirl Rune.
But then we played with time travel and now they're gone.

Then again, if we reset again maybe we'll lose the platypus joke which has gone too far, now.
So I'm down for voting to mess with time some more if ya'll want.

 

[Metoto]

Nah, seriously, let's just put time travel bullshit into a box, tape that box shut and write "Do Not Open" on it, then throw that box into the deepest, darkest pit we can find. Whoever's stupid enough to open it can deal with that particular mess, then.

 

[Vhalidictes]

Nah, seriously, let's just put time travel bullshit into a box, tape that box shut and write "Do Not Open" on it, then throw that box into the deepest, darkest pit we can find. Whoever's stupid enough to open it can deal with that particular mess, then.

Click to shrink...

As QM I have to write whatever people vote for. If most of the readers want time travel, they could make it happen. The first kind is just annoying and dangerous. The second kind (travel up and down a specific timeline) can create situations that can't be undone at all, and is a good source of Bad Ends.

I wasn't kidding about Abbadon having to fix the last attempt. It was really pissed, and things only went as well as they did because everyone retroactively forgot most of what happened (before you could be/were destroyed). The only place those memories might still exist is in the other QA backups, but you haven't found those yet.

 

[Valdimarian]

I wasn't kidding about Abbadon having to fix the last attempt. It was really pissed, and things only went as well as they did because everyone retroactively forgot most of what happened (before you could be/were destroyed). The only place those memories might still exist is in the other QA backups, but you haven't found those yet.

Click to shrink...

Or we might have found some and then formatted them so Taylor could have more brainmeats space.