*Points at Deathlords*
Only safe exalt is one that didn't exalt to begin with
Green Sun, Black Shadows (CG/Exalted)
- Thread starter Alexander89
- Start date
- Crossover
Only safe exalt is one that didn't exalt to begin with
My main point was that his rage isn't just about him. "The scorned prince" is his personal indignation. But he's not just angry for what happened to him, he's angry for his mother and his sister as well. Unlike Malfeas, Lelouch has empathy.
I would prefer an Intimacy towards "Noblesse Oblige" or "Justice", as that's more sensible than "Righteous Anger" which would likely lead to poor decision making.
What the GM said was "The Infernal's player and the Storyteller should design the newborn deva around the personal themes of the warlock and their personality as interpreted through the appropriate First (Yozi) Excellency and the Charm that created the Deva."
Both the First Excellency AND the Infernal's personal themes have an influence. Just because Malfeas is a selfish prick doesn't mean that a deva created from Sun-Heart Furnace Soul has to be a selfish prick as well. Remember that Infernals can use the Excellencies of the Yozis in ways the Yozis never would because they understand concepts beyond what the Yozis do. The sheer variety of souls you could create out of an Excellency mixed with a particular personality is quite large. A really high compassion Infernal might create a very compassionate soul through Sun-Heart Furnace Soul - said soul would indeed be angry, hateful, and destructive, but WHY it is so will be affected by the nature of its oversoul, so it might get pissed off seeing a schoolyard bully taking your lunch money, going into a berserk rage (whereas Malfeas would probably think that's the proper order of things and be satisfied) and then proceed to murder said bully with radioactive green fire and oh my it just destroyed the school playground, and you'll be terrified as fuck as it approaches you but then it hands you your lunch money back with a smug, self-satisfied smile on its face. You do your best not to piss yourself, and have the urge to bow down in terrified awe.
So yes, a soul built from Sun-Heart Furnace Soul can be benevolent, but it has to be benevolent within the themes of First Malfeas Excellency. Typically that would mean that it would categorize people into the group to be "nice" to and the group that it needs to destroy. Quite possibly some of group A will be caught up in the destruction, but that's part of its nature. Also, I don't think you have to take every theme from the Excellency, given that the souls of the Yozis themselves don't all operate using every aspect of the Yozi's themes (or perhaps more accurately they emphasize certain themes over others).
So yes, the soul Lelouch will span will be angry, hateful, arrogant, and all that, but it will be that way in similar ways to how Lelouch is. Lelouch is angry and hateful because of how he, his mother, and his sister were wronged by Britannia, so he wants justice/revenge for it. He sees how Britannia treats others as well, and it further fuels his hatred as Britannia continues to go unpunished for its crimes. He is arrogant in that he believes himself to be better than Britannia and its nobles, even though he is quite flawed and will often do terrible things himself. She will inherit Lelouch's desire to see the wrongs of the world punished, and will smile and laugh with sadistic glee as it crushes her enemies, sees them driven before her, and hears the lamentations of their women... and there might be some collateral damage, too, as she forgets what she's trying to correct in her raw fury. As for the rest of the people in the world who don't stoke her rage with injustice? Well, anyone beneath her or her Father's station is expected to bow down as is appropriate when dealing with beings of such power, but unlike Ligier she won't flay you alive for not doing so, rather just think you're insane or something and forgive it because she's knows she's better than that. She still looks down on you, of course, but that's all it'll come to.
I 'did' mention making sure that they were mote-tapped, so they wouldn't have any Essence to use a Shaping defense.
Integrity-Protecting Prana (the archetypal Shaping defense) only costs
Edit: apparently my memory isn't as good as I thought.
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Wait, what? I thought it was 5 motes, 1 WP?
No thoughts on my ideas?
They're terrible.
No, but seriously, I just missed them.
Darkling Grace Complete should be based on more than a persona he only recently invented. Lelouch's deceptions go far beyond that. She may have a love of masks, though, and use them frequently in the shadow plays she puts on. So maybe she's exceptionally good at disguise?
For Muse of Unearthly Delights, I'm rather married to my idea of a more ruthless and insane Shirou. That said, influences from other people he knows is certainly possible.
For Sun Heart Furnace Soul, I think that Lelouch would immediately work on changing the physical form of the deva if it looked like Charles zi Britannia. He does not want a constant reminder of exactly what he hates living in his soul. (I'm sure he's probably seen pictures and paintings of a younger Charles before)
All that means is that they need to figure out a Permanent Charm that gets them out of their bind. Like one specifically meant to give them the ability to respire motes anywhere and in any situation. Also, making sure they are mote-tapped doesn't work if they've already committed Essence to the defense.
Also, generally speaking I think keeping time frozen in a given location for all of eternity would probably take a LOT of Essence.
Yep, I screwed that up. I genuinely thought that was the case though, but I looked it up again after double checking the dragonblooded shaping defense.
- Location
- his hidden lair
I definitely think Sun Heart Furnace Soul should be more masculine in nature. A reflection of the Prince who was wronged as well as the fact, if you're talking about Lelouch's perspectives on heroic opposition to injustice, you really have to take into account Suzaku, or at least how Lelouch sees him. The sort of conviction that the world can be righted, and the unwavering pursuit of the ideal... That's Suzaku, or at least how Lelouch most likely sees him. I think Lelouch is too jaded and bitter to think it's something as simple as justice that he's fighting for, he's certainly fighting for what he believes is a better world but he's more than willing to spill a tide of blood if he thinks it will get him closer. Righteous Indignation, or Vengeance, or righteous wrath. But just simplifying and abstracting Lelouch's motivation in war when the show made a point of frequently pointing out that the Black Knight's war against Britannia really wasn't. Shirley's dad, the massive reprisals against 11's, Lelouch turning a massacre into a political coup (even if it escalated out of his hands, he was planning on sabotaging a real lasting peace in Japan). All of Lelouch's pettiness was channelled into defeating Britannia and he was more than willing to hand wave away notions of 'injustice' when it set back that goal. This may be what Enjou is trying to describe, but I feel 'Justice' fails to accurately describe just how personal and ultimately self-centred a motive this is for Lelouch.
Anyways, what do people think of my idea to make Muse-chan absurdly apathetic outside of people/things she finds interesting/cares about. With her picking up and discarding hobbies?
Anyways, what do people think of my idea to make Muse-chan absurdly apathetic outside of people/things she finds interesting/cares about. With her picking up and discarding hobbies?
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Well, they'd need to have figured out the charm first, as after, they're stuck in frozen time.
Though, true about having already triggered the defense.
Also true about it being 'very' expensive.
- Location
- Brazil
Actualy I looked around and aparently permanent stasis is a celestial circle spell, and manacles who drain motes and stop charm useage are also a thing
Yeah, when I say "Justice" I mean Lelouch's sense of justice, not someone else's. The kind that's like "I'm going to laugh while I drop a building on you and your army, Governor, because you're an asshole and you deserve it." Lelouch does not view Suzaku as a paragon of heroic opposition to injustice in canon, he views him as a naive idiot who thinks he can fix Britannia from within. Lelouch's view of justice is more "punish the wicked by any means necessary".
That said, Lelouch is a complicated person, and he's got a number of conflicting ideals. He's got ideals of justice and noblesse oblige, but he can often get so engrossed in his own plans he forgets to consider them. The question here is what parts of him get distilled into the various souls of his. Certain souls will emphasize certain themes of his more than others will. I think Sun-Heart Furnace Soul is perfect for embodying Lelouch as a combination of how he views what royalty should be while still reflecting himself, but it's an imperfect combination because Lelouch himself isn't perfect. You end up with a soul that practices noblesse oblige, but it's not nice like Euphemia is. It's arrogant, violent, and sadistic, enjoying the notion of punishing the wicked and petty tyrants who abuse those they rule, viewing itself as superior to them in all ways that matter even if it isn't.
That said, "Noblesse Oblige" might be a better intimacy than "Justice" as it's a more specific ideal.
Yeah, I'm fine with that. It fits the suggestion of Shirou that I gave. If it bores her, she gives no fucks.
- Location
- his hidden lair
Yeah, "Noblesse Oblige" is a pretty good way of defining it. I still feel of all the souls this one should probably be masculine, and possibly around Lelouch's age. I'd argue Lelouch would have a really hard time visualizing an adolescent girl baying for blood and demanding the torment of her foes, it would just be a little to irreconcilable with the notion of relatively adorable little girls he has for his other sub souls and would run counter of his image of Nunnally which the other souls seem to at least partially influenced by. Furthermore, this soul seems to represent an uglier side of lelouch, and I think he'd treat it more as his own personal demon/monster in the closet than a daughter or a child, the devil on his shoulder if you will. It would be really interesting to see a sub soul that while loyal to its oversoul is at odds with it for the most part. I would be happy to see it appear as some sort of twisted simulacrum of Lelouch, sort of showing the lengths and depths he'd go. Expanding on that whole ugly side of it, then it really runs counter to the whole "little girl implies some innocence" thing the other souls have and I don't think he'd want this thing even remotely similar to Nunnally. Finally, while I wouldn't say it's the most prominent or important aspect of Lelouch, I definitely think he would consider it the most personal and private of the three in that he's the least willing to express that side of himself to those he cares about, and we all know how Lelouch loves to take on burdens by himself to the expense of his relationships.
chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
Throw enough slivers to space and slivers will gain the ability to survive vacuum. Teleportation can be utilized as FTL if we gain enough mana to ubercharge the spell.
Except what you're all forgetting is that it's quite possible for them to just decide, one day, to completely ignore all of those spells and charms and reenact Episode 26 of Gurren Lagann on your face, because the Yozi have specifically in their surrender oaths that they aren't allowed to go back in time and fix everything, and Exaltations would therefore be pretty useless if simple time shenanigans could lock them down.
[/Notsureifjoking]The only soul whose looks might have Nunnally in it so far is the one from Muse of Unearthly Delights, as the other one I suggested is more of a femme fetale in her teenage years wielding a scythe. I'm not thinking of basing this soul off of Nunnally at all, or an adorable, innocent looking little girl. I'm trying to find something that shows clear arrogance and suggests the possibility of violence to at least some extent. Given the people Lelouch has met in the Royal Family, I don't think it'd be out of left field for him to have met a sadistic woman or two. Also, Lelouch's visualization isn't necessarily what determines the looks of the deva - it's a matter of things from the Charm itself and his personality. Lelouch isn't actually making any conscious decisions here.
I also don't want this to end up being something he keeps in the closet because he's ashamed of it, as that's a waste of deva. Remember that these souls are things we need to get use out of as future allies/subordinates. Also, Lelouch is to an extent raising them, so if it ends up as a part of himself he hates then that's a failure. That said, I want all of his souls to have good, bad, and ugly aspects to them, just as Lelouch does, but none should be so bad that Lelouch would actually feel outright ashamed of them. They might make him take a serious look at himself, but not enough to change himself so much that his devas would completely cease to be who they are.
Thats kind of the point yes. Those ARE the part of him most like his father, and he needs to recognize that to actually grow.
Either to accept it, or to resolve not to repeat history
Eh, I don't think he'd subconsciously create a soul that looks like his father. He loathes the man, after all, and Lelouch views himself as being different than his father as well. Again, I just don't see it. Having one of his souls show him an ugly side of himself? Sure, I think all of them will teach him about himself. But I really just can't see him using his father's image to do it. He'd probably just reject that lesson for a long, long time.
- Location
- his hidden lair
I'm not saying being in an adversarial relationship with the SHFS, or even that he's ashamed of it per say. More that, Lelouch is someone who's taken great pains to come across as simply a genius with a serious case of apathy, even Milly and Suzaku don't really have a clear picture of Lelouch's idea of "Noblesse Oblige" in part of that might be because he felt no need to express it, wanted to keep it away from Nunally, or his friends or whatever. But regardless, of all of Lelouch's aspects, I don't think most of the people familiar with him are aware of the depths of seething hatred he has for Britannia. The banished Prince, who refuses to leave well enough alone, regardless of the fact it probably would have made Nunnally much happier if he had. It's not a secret, but it's more a nuance of Lelouch no one else has really encountered yet besides himself brooding on the topic. Combine that with me considering the nature of this soul as inherently selfish, and I don't think its unfair that this soul should more directly reflect that its part of Lelouch, a prince with a broken crown, someone similar looking to Lelouch armored in Malfeasan Brass and Iron.
I don't think it's wrong to say that this is one of the uglier if not the ugliest part of Lelouch, and he's not one to try and dress up and pretty that sort of thing, I'm really expecting Lelouch to simply accept to some extent that this is a part of him and move on, maybe a little more aware of it or to find some way of justifying why that part of him is necessary as opposed to having some moral crises over it. To me the 'horror' of it isn't in that Lelouch has this part of himself, it's that where a normal person would recoil in shock and maybe do some self evaluation, Lelouch will accept that part of himself and keep on moving forward with his goals. Lelouch wants this, the vengeance and the revenge, he dresses it up as an obligation, but Lelouch went to war for his own selfish reasons. If he isn't willing to set it aside for Nunnally's sake and give her the life she ultimately wants, he's sure as hell not going to be scared or ashamed of it when he looks at the mirror.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
They did actually, the Rebellion just had a tool to solve that problem.
The Auraclast was designed to solve that problem by serving as what amounts to being a jaws of life for an Exaltation that's stuck in a Host that's been reduced to an insensiate blob incapable of doing anything at all, including killing themselves.
frozenchicken
Does not have a custom title.
I want to remind people that when creating the devas, we're not just coming up with some random psychological analysis in order to watch Lelouch react to it. We're trying to create an actual character, one whom both Lelouch and us will have to put up with for the rest of the story. Even with influence from the Yozi, these Devas will still be born from Lelouch, and aren't going to be beyond the bounds of what Lelouch himself would be theoretically capable of. Either you're viewing the Devas as parts of Lelouch, in which case they're portions of him expressed through the lens of the relevant Excellencies, or they're Lelouch's children, in which case they will be tempered by Lelouch's influence. I'm not saying they'll all just be made entirely out of established aspects of Lelouch, but, for example, a Malfean Warrior deva might inherit some of Lelouch's 'for the greater good' collateral tendencies, but even Malfeas' influence would not turn the Deva into a sociopath who doesn't care about massive loss of life. (And additionally, I want to remind everyone that they're formed from the Lelouch of now, not the end of series version who was repeatedly betrayed, brainwashed and traumatised by the events of the series).
TL;DR: They should all have reasonable, logically-cohesive worldviews that are derivative of Lelouch. People with flaws yes, but not human-looking creatures with utterly alien worldviews. Lelouch is not the Yozi. Heck, all the 3rd Circle Demons we've met are actually significantly saner than their relevant Yozi.
.....Actuallly....
Lelouch: Hmmm. Making it out across the bridge is going to be tricky with those Knightmares standing guard, and our Frames are low on ammo...
Shirou!Muse: Well, the best option is of course to hijack that civilian's fishing boat to sneak a Frame across the river, have it attack one of the Frames from behind, blast one of their limb joints until it detaches, then beat the enemy to death with their own severed limbs!
Muse-chan: No, no no! There's a hardware store near here. We'll get some paint, have the Anuhles sneak across and onto the Frames, and then all dump the paint over the Knightmare Frame's cameras! Oh, but we have to make sure they only use red, white and green paint, because I want them to look like the Italian Flag.
Shirou!Muse: Don't be absurd! My plan is much better! It's way more direct, and it ends with us having their limbs as melee weapons!
Muse-chan: No! Mine's better! They won't see it coming, we can still remove their limbs when we're done AND we get to paint them up like the Italian Flag!
Seyrun: Of all the souls I could have gotten stuck inside, it was the guy favoured by Oramus. Even the voices in his head have their own split personalities....
TL;DR: They should all have reasonable, logically-cohesive worldviews that are derivative of Lelouch. People with flaws yes, but not human-looking creatures with utterly alien worldviews. Lelouch is not the Yozi. Heck, all the 3rd Circle Demons we've met are actually significantly saner than their relevant Yozi.
[Insert childish remark about how my interpretation of the Muse is better]
.....Actuallly....
Lelouch: Hmmm. Making it out across the bridge is going to be tricky with those Knightmares standing guard, and our Frames are low on ammo...
Shirou!Muse: Well, the best option is of course to hijack that civilian's fishing boat to sneak a Frame across the river, have it attack one of the Frames from behind, blast one of their limb joints until it detaches, then beat the enemy to death with their own severed limbs!
Muse-chan: No, no no! There's a hardware store near here. We'll get some paint, have the Anuhles sneak across and onto the Frames, and then all dump the paint over the Knightmare Frame's cameras! Oh, but we have to make sure they only use red, white and green paint, because I want them to look like the Italian Flag.
Shirou!Muse: Don't be absurd! My plan is much better! It's way more direct, and it ends with us having their limbs as melee weapons!
Muse-chan: No! Mine's better! They won't see it coming, we can still remove their limbs when we're done AND we get to paint them up like the Italian Flag!
Seyrun: Of all the souls I could have gotten stuck inside, it was the guy favoured by Oramus. Even the voices in his head have their own split personalities....
Alexander89
Pet the pretty kitty? Y/N
- Location
- Italy
I see the discussion is flourishing most vigorously. Keep on, keep on: you have my approval
I have a small problem: I was re-reading Leila's Sheet, and I realized that I forgot she also spend days in Malfeas, so she ought to have learned something. I am not sure what to add, but one of the ideas was to add a +1 MA Specialty in a Terrestrial Style, and have her learn the first Charm of said Style so she has something to train with when back on Earth. I was thinking Water Dragon Style, but I am not sure...
I have a small problem: I was re-reading Leila's Sheet, and I realized that I forgot she also spend days in Malfeas, so she ought to have learned something. I am not sure what to add, but one of the ideas was to add a +1 MA Specialty in a Terrestrial Style, and have her learn the first Charm of said Style so she has something to train with when back on Earth. I was thinking Water Dragon Style, but I am not sure...
frozenchicken
Does not have a custom title.
Maybe Akito took her along to the library of Orabilis to learn something utterly absurd for a Dragonblood?
Water Dragon seems fine to me.I see the discussion is flourishing most vigorously. Keep on, keep on: you have my approval
I have a small problem: I was re-reading Leila's Sheet, and I realized that I forgot she also spend days in Malfeas, so she ought to have learned something. I am not sure what to add, but one of the ideas was to add a +1 MA Specialty in a Terrestrial Style, and have her learn the first Charm of said Style so she has something to train with when back on Earth. I was thinking Water Dragon Style, but I am not sure...
Walker of the Yellow Path
Ho There!
- Location
- The Land of Memes
Well, Water Dragon is actually a Celestial Style, so she'll have to learn the two initiation charms before she starts learning the style proper.I see the discussion is flourishing most vigorously. Keep on, keep on: you have my approval
I have a small problem: I was re-reading Leila's Sheet, and I realized that I forgot she also spend days in Malfeas, so she ought to have learned something. I am not sure what to add, but one of the ideas was to add a +1 MA Specialty in a Terrestrial Style, and have her learn the first Charm of said Style so she has something to train with when back on Earth. I was thinking Water Dragon Style, but I am not sure...
I don't know what else I'd suggest, since most of SoTM is pretty bad, and the only decent working style I know is Golden Jannissary Style. Which I think no one would teach her here.