Green Sun, Black Shadows (CG/Exalted)

You know...not to be a spoilsport, but some parts are either: not very Oramaic/Infernals or overpowered. The concept has value, yes, but the current execution is flawed.

Yeah, they're more thought experiments and proof of concept. I also took the view that the Oramus as a innovator rather than the the mad artist (which isnt a useful paradigm for players) that people seem to be so fond of. He creates unique things and that's why a few of the charms doesn't work when trying to reproduce things he already built.

As for the actual concept. I decided that Oramus builds things by adventuring in the Beyond rather than sitting down to actually do work. He is the most FREE of the yozi and I interpret that freedom as both madness and actual physical freedom (prior to being imprisoned). Madness is also part of the concept here, though not explicitly stated. For instance, he gains inspiration from the Beyond (a mad impossible place) which translates into direct Crafting successes.

As a core whole, these Charms simply ensures that players get the Artifact they're after by adventuring. Whereas normally, what Artifact they get by adventuring is random or dictated by the ST, and the only sure way to get the one they want is ether to craft it or get it at Chargen.
 
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You know, if you're going to copy my Oramus stuff, you could just use my Oramus crafting charms;

Article:
SLEEP-FORGE GULLET
Cost: --; Mins: Essence 3; Type: Permanent
Keywords: None
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisites: Treasures Beyond Possibility

Within the forge of his nightmares, Oramus dreamed up many moon gods and moon goddesses and watched as all save one were slain. It is telling that the Dragon Beyond the World never tried to raise his hand against his child, even in the Primordial War. This Charm enhances its prerequisite. When the Infernal sleeps, she may carry out whatever actions she can manage using the contents of her sleep-hoard within the unreal vistas of her dreams. She may continue her research using books in her sleep-hoard, continue to train her skills using a sword, or work on raw materials with her crafting tools. Any items crafted within her dreams is added to the sleep-hoard, or appears next to her when she wakes if this would exceed the cap on the contents.

This Charm may be repurchased at Essence 4. Rolls within the sleep-forge are enhanced as if the Infernal knew the Solar Charm Words-as-Workshop Method, as she snatches impossible and unreal tools that flitter through the frontiers of her nightmares.


Article:
THAT DAMNED INSPIRATION
Cost: 7m, 1 Temperance channel; Mins: Essence 3; Type: Simple (Dramatic Action)
Keywords: Combo-OK, Blasphemy, Compulsion, Pantheon
Duration: One week
Prerequisites: Whispers in Dark Minds

Malra, the Scribe Insensate, takes the form of a rail-thin madwoman. Every day she blinds and deafens herself, so that she may record the inaudible mutterings and unseeable visions of her greater self. The character retreats from the world, driven insane by the melodies of the unreal. With everything she has, she scribbles down what she hears, trying to conceptualise that which cannot exist. She fails, of course, but her ravings provide useful inspiration.

She suffers an irresistible self-targeted Compulsion to sleep and eat only what is required and devote all her time to her work, and automatically botches any attempt to explain to others what she is doing. If she spends more than four hours away from her work, this Charm prematurely terminates.

At the end of the week, she rolls her (Intelligence + Occult), at difficulty (6 - Temperance). Success means that her scribblings and ravings have produced a blueprint for an artefact, musical composition or sorcerous spell which is entirely novel and has never existed before, which is worth a number of successes equal to her threshold towards the project to reify it. The Storyteller and player should design the precise functionality and required exotic ingredients her blueprint describes - the character has no control over this. Her ravings may not be combined with any other blueprint. For artefacts and spells it may provide no more than half the necessary successes for a project. If she fails the roll, what her ravings describe cannot physically exist, and any project which tries to use her blueprints automatically botches.

The ravings describe maddening things no man should know, and are a vector for Cosmic Insight if read or used in a project. Any artefact or spell produced from such a blueprint obviously draws upon strange, otherworldly principles. Anyone with Occult 3+ can recognise the Oramesque nature of the project with 4 successes on a (Wits + Occult) roll.
i dont like the dreaming aspect as a bases for crafting. its non interactive and doesn't totally fit with how oramus created luna.

Oramus create stuff by going into the Beyond and find stuff he finds interesting. He doesn't dream it into existences but rather fish it from a sea of impossibilities.
 
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i dont like the dreaming aspect as a bases for crafting. its non interactive and totally doesnt fit with how oramus created luna.

Oramus create stuff by going into the Beyond and find stuff he finds interesting. he doesnt dream it into existences but rather fish it from a sea of impossibities.

You know, you could not lie to my face. And also not copy my Charm fluff verbatim without crediting me, but that's another issue.

But it was beyond Cytherea"s power to realize Luna alone. To complete her design, she went to Oramus, the Dragon Beyond the World, whose mind dwelled on alien vistas beyond perception, an infinite forge of the impossible that stirred the very Wyld into forms and patterns by the movement of its thoughts. In the forge of Oramus, the moon was born from Cytherea"s vision, cut apart from his nightmares to bring what was beyond and apart from Creation into Creation in a singular form.

Born from the conceptual "without" of Oramus"s dreams

She looks into the Beyond, where the dreams of Oramus create an existential well of alien concepts and hellish landscapes

Glories Luna consistently refers to the Beyond and Oramus and the genesis of Luna in the context of dreams and nightmares. Hence, shockingly, drawing on the most conclusive source of evidence we have, I chose to invoke the same dreams and nightmares (and of course, Lovecraft's Dreamlands) as the mechanism through which Oramus interacts with the Beyond. And then gave him Charmtech to make his dreams real, make blasted dreamlands heaths that look like the Nightmare Frontier from Bloodborne, and pass things to and from his dreams.

Moreover, the Beyond is not just "alternate worlds". The Beyond is the "place outside the shinmaic confluence of the shinma that define Creation". The Wyld contains everything that could be - the Beyond contains everything that cannot. And that means that it's best kept at a distance from players, because it's literally impossible to describe. It's not a place for casual questing - not without literally being Oramus. Even Luna does not casually go there.
 
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You know, you could not lie to my face. And also not copy my Charm fluff verbatim without crediting me, but that's another issue.







Glories Luna consistently refers to the Beyond and Oramus and the genesis of Luna in the context of dreams and nightmares. Hence, shockingly, drawing on the most conclusive source of evidence we have, I chose to invoke the same dreams and nightmares (and of course, Lovecraft's Dreamlands) as the mechanism through which Oramus interacts with the Beyond. And then gave him Charmtech to make his dreams real, make blasted dreamlands heaths that look like the Nightmare Frontier from Bloodborne, and pass things to and from his dreams.

Moreover, the Beyond is not just "alternate worlds". The Beyond is the "place outside the shinmaic confluence of the shinma that define Creation". The Wyld contains everything that could be - the Beyond contains everything that cannot. And that means that it's best kept at a distance from players, because it's literally impossible to describe. It's not a place for casual questing - not without literally being Oramus. Even Luna does not casually go there.

I view the nightmare description in glories as a metaphore, or watsonian approach for something that is undescribable. The interpretation I offer in my charm that branches off yours is that the Beyond is a litteral place rather than the dreams of Oramus or a place that Oramus goes when he dreams.

And other Yozi were able to enter the Beyond without dreaming. Both depend and independent of Oramus. Those quotes could mean: A) Oramus' dreams influence the Beyond but the Beyond may or may not be separate from Oramus himself. B) Oramus' dreams influence the Beyond but he has no control over what he dreams, thus the dreams affect the dreamer as much as the dreamer affects the dream. A two way street.

I feel a definitive answer will require a clear picture of what Oramus actually is. Both will have different interpretations in charmtech.
 
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I view the nightmare description in glories as a metaphore, or watsonian approach for something that is undescribable.

So what you mean is that you're offering no textual support to counter my quotes, merely assertions that "it's just a metaphor". That's.... uh, that's quite a backpedal there, from, "doesn't totally fit with how oramus created luna".

Basically, it totally fits precisely with how the text says Oramus created Luna (as well as fitting genre examples of things like the Dreamlands from Lovecraft), and you're now reaching for "different interpretations" as that's the last holdout to you.

PS, as per the Dreamlands and the Nightmare Frontier, just because something's a dream doesn't mean that it's not real.

(Also, you're wrong - the Beyond isn't "a place". It's the term for "everything not in the set of things describable by the shinma of Creation". Given those shinma include things like "things exist", "things have a location", and "things have an identity", the very concepts of location and existence and identity are not applicable to most of the Beyond)
 
@Alexander89
Would it be possible to redo the infernal I gave you?
Cause EarthScorpion has recently made some really cool "Fleeing the Scene" stuff that I think would fit fairly well.

Here is the link for what I'm talking about.
 
So what you mean is that you're offering no textual support to counter my quotes, merely assertions that "it's just a metaphor". That's.... uh, that's quite a backpedal there, from, "doesn't totally fit with how oramus created luna".

Basically, it totally fits precisely with how the text says Oramus created Luna (as well as fitting genre examples of things like the Dreamlands from Lovecraft), and you're now reaching for "different interpretations" as that's the last holdout to you.

Pff.. whatever dude. The text clearly supports multiple interpretation. And the divergent implications there of.
 
Pff.. whatever dude. The text clearly supports multiple interpretation. And the divergent implications there of.

I have no horse in this race, but I have always read the Glories: Luna text in the same manner of @EarthScorpion, but I am mostly here to comment that it really isn't nice to copy people's stuff without crediting them, and as far as I know, he spent quite some time on those Charms (a month if I remember correctly). It's not bad enough to summon a Moderator for it, and there isn't really a rule against it, but when you copy his text and hard work, word for word before changing it to fit your needs, you are generally expected to at least credit the person who spent a month of real-time to write the Charmset.

But anyways, I'm sure that this issue will be sorted out by your QM when he takes a look at the thread, so it isn't like I'd get anything out of spending a few hours arguing why you are wrong on the internet (trademarked, copyrighted etc... :V), so I'll leave now and can only hope you take the warning in good faith.
 
Personally thinking the meta themes aside, an Oramus Crafting charm would basically be, to go a little meta, writing a script and general thrust of the creation, shoving it out into the Beyond for the entities there to play out and intepret the script, then pick out one the dominant ones to pull into Creation, where reality imposes the rules and defines it as a tangible thing rather than a mutating cluster of concepts.

Then if they want more control over what it makes, they could play through the script and accept the risks(with supporting cast), but be likely to create something usable and relevant rather than something so novel as to have few uses..
 
@Alexander89
Would it be possible to redo the infernal I gave you?
Cause EarthScorpion has recently made some really cool "Fleeing the Scene" stuff that I think would fit fairly well.

Here is the link for what I'm talking about.
Sure thing. Your character was...the one called 'Imaginary', right?

But anyways, I'm sure that this issue will be sorted out by your QM when he takes a look at the thread, so it isn't like I'd get anything out of spending a few hours arguing why you are wrong on the internet (trademarked, copyrighted etc... :V), so I'll leave now and can only hope you take the warning in good faith.
I will now: Reckless_Sun, your interpretation is your own (though, I think you are in a very small minority) but you should have really given credits to EarthScorpion, whose efforts are worthy of praise, for using a charm of his own creation.

Personally thinking the meta themes aside, an Oramus Crafting charm would basically be, to go a little meta, writing a script and general thrust of the creation, shoving it out into the Beyond for the entities there to play out and intepret the script, then pick out one the dominant ones to pull into Creation, where reality imposes the rules and defines it as a tangible thing rather than a mutating cluster of concepts.

Then if they want more control over what it makes, they could play through the script and accept the risks(with supporting cast), but be likely to create something usable and relevant rather than something so novel as to have few uses..
You know what, I like it.
 
Personally thinking the meta themes aside, an Oramus Crafting charm would basically be, to go a little meta, writing a script and general thrust of the creation, shoving it out into the Beyond for the entities there to play out and intepret the script, then pick out one the dominant ones to pull into Creation, where reality imposes the rules and defines it as a tangible thing rather than a mutating cluster of concepts.

Then if they want more control over what it makes, they could play through the script and accept the risks(with supporting cast), but be likely to create something usable and relevant rather than something so novel as to have few uses..
That is insanely metaly meta in a way I can't explain with mere words.
 
Basically think the Infernal creates a reward and the party goes on a quest for it(potentially being eaten or mutated along the way), or he writes the plot and NPCs go through it, giving him some randomly generated loots.
I know, it just brings to mind the whole process where people come up with their own results/interpritations of works of fiction.
 
Interlude
Interlude

The metal box descends down the elevator shaft at frightening speed, covering hundred of meters every few seconds. Despite that the interior is oddly calm, as if it was moving very slowly. A few minutes later it reaches the bottom, decelerating almost immediately, and lands with a soft 'thump'. The doors open, and the sole occupant steps out.

By appearance alone he is a child with long blond hair that reach the ground, with a headpiece on both sides of his head and clothes fitted for nobility. Yet his eyes are often described as unsettlingly by many of those who knows him, looking far too much older and crafty for a mere child.

He crosses the desert platform and arrives at the handrail, where he holds onto it to look below.

A river of lava with an impressive width of 30 miles flows at the bottom of the subterranean chasm, the heat from it arriving to the child in the form of a warm, dry breeze. Frowning at what for him is an irritating feeling he takes out a pair of binoculars and looks around until he finds what he was searching for: the sight of a bright red aircraft standing near the center of the lava river, a structure similar to a drilling rig on its belly descending straight into the lava and, he knows, way deeper than that.

"There are no delays that warrant your presence here." A cultured, aristocratic voice suddenly says.

The child scoffs. "Just feeling like it." He lowers the binoculars and looks to the side at his interlocutor. The tall man wears clothes fit for nobility, outdated in design yet very expensive: his features are handsome, but like the child his eyes are too crafty to set others on ease. His wild red hair have real flames on one side, yet even as he walks closer to the child the other side begins to turn blue, small droplets of water falling down at his passage.

The man raises an eyebrow in clear disbelief. "I was under the impression you don't like the heat."

"I don't: do you have any idea what it does to my hair?" The child scoffs again and steps back from the handrail. "But it's better than spending the whole day listening to sycophants. I swear, C.C. has a knack for picking up irritating people."

"Ah yes, the difficulties of finding competent servants. What a tragedy." The man, his hair now completely blue, replies with a mocking tone. Then he takes out a folder and begins to scroll through the pages inside. "But you came at the right moment. I reviewed my plans, and I reached the conclusion that it would be more beneficial for the scion of the Brassey family to marry one of the Sackville line instead of the Hope's second daughter."

The child rolls his eyes before making the effort of actually trying to remember. "The Sackville have only one son."

"I know this. But if we use a gender-changing drug and you-"

"No. Way. In. Hell." The child clearly articulates each word as he stares back at the man with an almost disgusted expression. "Not that I care, but there is no way you can persuade them. And before you ask, do you really think Charles would actually care?"

The man frowns, his following words full of bitterness. "Then they need to produce a daughter. Preferably now, or waiting for her to become fertile will mess up the other phases."

"I am part of Britannia's Secret Intelligence Department Parad, not the Genealogic one." The blond child makes a dismissing gesture at the lava river. "Or do you prefer I dedicate less time to make sure no one in Yu-Shan knows you're helping Britannia secretly stealing genetic material from the Elemental Dragons and implanting it into the embryos of the nobility's future sons and daughters?"

"Don't use the word 'stealing'." The man demands with a hard tone while his skin assumes the hue and consistence of granite. "This is no different than harvesting wheat from a mature field."

"The Elemental Dragons are wheat fields in your eyes?"

"It wouldn't have come to this if they deigned to give my petitions the attention they deserved."

"Riiight, petitions." The child snickers. "Because bureaucracy always resolves everything."

"Funny V.V., very funny. Actually: no, it isn't."

Interlude - End

====

Today is my birthday, so have an interlude :p
 
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Nice interlude. The fact that the Britannians are stealing genetic material from the Elemental Dragons to keep their Dragonblooded breeding level up high is disconcerting, but also something I can see them doing and a clear reason they'd have a major advantage over their rivals.

Today is my birthday, so have an interlude :p

Happy birthday! Hope to see the next update soon-ish. This is a fun quest and I want it to continue.
 
Nice interlude. The fact that the Britannians are stealing genetic material from the Elemental Dragons to keep their Dragonblooded breeding level up high is disconcerting, but also something I can see them doing and a clear reason they'd have a major advantage over their rivals.
Also makes sense how the dragon-blood haven't died out with the extra 3000 years we are away from Canon.
 
Nice interlude. The fact that the Britannians are stealing genetic material from the Elemental Dragons to keep their Dragonblooded breeding level up high is disconcerting, but also something I can see them doing and a clear reason they'd have a major advantage over their rivals.
Why do you think Leila has Breeding 3? Parad is doing this shit since DB started breeding with mortals way to much for his likings, with genetic manipulation being merely the last in a long line.
 
Omake - The Eyes In The Darkness (Canon)
The Eyes In The Darkness (Occurs Immediately Post Shinjuku Shadowland 1.3)

In a small room in a building near the battle between the forces of Zero and his ghostly foes- if, indeed, such a one-sided encounter could truly be called a battle- there was a patch of shadows. Deep, silent, unmoving, and to all appearances unremarkable; anybody who saw it would swear it was just another patch of darkness in the corner of an abandoned room. As the conflict raged in the streets below, these shadows remained silent and unmoving. As Villeta Nu was saved by a million to one chance, they remained silent and unmoving. And as Zero and his allies left, they remained silent and unmoving.

A minute passed, and still the shadows stayed still and silent. And again, as another minute passed. Then two. Then ten minutes. The clock ticking steadily ever onwards until finally, a full hour after the battle was done?

The shadows moved.

Falling silently from the ceiling of one corner of the room, the shadows seeming to run off her like water, a young woman dropped out of the darkness and landed in a crouch. As she rose she stretched, easing out the aches and cricks from staying still for so long, before ruffling a hand through her short, blonde hair to remove the dust and rubble that had been knocked into it by a stray blow to the building during the fighting.

That done, she sighed, before producing a hand-radio-like device from seemingly nowhere. For a moment she just looked at it, hesitation briefly skittering across her face, before she sighed again and flicked a switch on the side of the device. Bringing the device up her mouth, she said in a low voice, "Contact. First Circle. Dusk.".

'And please, don't be there.' She thought to herself as a small red light lit up on the surface of the device. It was the same thought that went through her mind every time the blonde woman had to contact her superior, a silent prayer that she would be too occupied to answer, but it was a wish that this time went unanswered. Whatever horrific being might deign to listen to the pleas of one like her was obviously paying no attention, as the light on the device turned green and a voice emerged from it.

"Speaking. Sight."

The blonde woman couldn't help but let a small shiver of fear run through her body at the sound of her superior's voice, but she quickly suppressed it. Even if there was nobody here to see her, it was still better to keep a tight rein on her self-control.

"Speaking, Second. I do apologise for the unscheduled call, but I have urgent information for you." The blonde woman said, before falling silent as she waited for her superior's answer.

"Urgent? Go ahead." Was it her imagination, or had her superior's voice softened slightly now she knew this was a high priority call and not just her panicking over nothing? No, the blonde woman quickly decided, she had to be imagining it.

"The... idiotic... Exalt I encountered." She elaborated, forcing herself keeping her voice calm and steady despite the frown of irritation that flashed across her face at the thought of her original meeting with the moron. "I saw him again tonight, and discovered that he has allies. Six more Exalts of the same type as him, a Dragonblooded, support from at least 30 Demons, and an unknown number of mortals."

From the other side of her communicator she heard a sharp intake of breath, her news clearly either surprising or concerning her superior. Or possibly both, now she considered it; even seven Dragonblooded in one place was something to cautious of, but seven unknown Exalts with that much support? It was a potential disaster. 'Maybe there actually IS something other than the Mask that scares the great 'Fi-'"

"I need all the details you have."
Her superior spoke up again, her voice sharp as it cut off the blonde woman's musings. "Charms, Sorcery, anything and everything you saw them use. Now."

"Ah, r-rght." The blonde woman said, the sudden demand jarring her out of her thoughts and breaking her composure for a brief instant, before she hurriedly recompose herself. "The unknown Exalts all referred to one another as 'Peers'. I observed two apparent Dusk analogues with crossed sword caste marks, both melee focused, who were identified as 'Akio' and 'Akito'. None of the others spent enough Essence to reveal their marks, but as the same Exalt type they must have them."

Pausing for a moment to consider what she'd seen and heard, the blonde woman continued more slowly to make sure she didn't miss anything, "The other five were less involved in the conflict, but I believe I have a general grasp of their combat capabilities. One by the name of 'Milly' was fast-moving and able to throw lightning bolts. One by the name of 'Kaguya' was able to summon blasts of silver sand to strike her foes, as was a 'Yelena' who seemed to have the personal loyalty of some of the mortals. Of the remaining two, one named 'Nadir' did nothing of note, whilst the last was their leader. He went by what I believe to be an alias, 'Zero', and could create illusions of Demons and redirect his weapons fire after shooting."

"As for the others, the Dragonblooded was a Water Caste named 'Leila', and was nothing special. The Demons were mostly Anhule, but two were of a type I didn't recognise, and one of them was being worn as armour." The blonde woman concluded, taking a deep breath as she finished her report. She'd have to fill in a more detailed paper copy for her superior and the rest of the circle to peruse later, but for now she'd gotten the important details to her superior.

She hoped.

There was silence for several seconds as her superior apparently digested the information the blonde woman had given, before a quiet mumble of, "…troubling." Came across the communicator. So quiet, in fact that the blonde woman was fairly sure she wasn't supposed to have heard it.

Before she could consider that, however, her superior's voice snapped back to full volume. "How strong were they? How do you estimate we would fair against them?"

"I would say they are weaker than our circle individually," The blonde woman replied, before a shiver ran down her spine as a particular memory forced its way to the forefront of her mind. "A-and weaker than you as a whole. But I also don't believe the gap is insurmountably large, in either situation."

An irritated noise came over the communicator, and the blonde woman fought down the urge to swallow nervously at it. 'S-she's not here, I, I don't need to worry.' She tried to mentally reassure herself, even as her superior spoke. "So we can confirm that they're Celestial Exalts. But you still don't recognise the type?"

"No... no." The blonde woman said, only barely keeping her nerves from showing in her voice. Her calm was breaking down fast in the face of her superior's questioning, and she knew she had to do something to regain it. Something, anything, a comment to distract her superior, a mad theory...!

'Wait a second... that actually makes sense.' The blonde woman thought, a sudden frown appearing on her face as several facts came together in her head. It made sense, even as she examined the idea from multiple angles, but frustratingly there was no way to be sure she was correct. Clearing her throat, she slowly and carefully said, "But I do have an idea. The number of Demons and the silver sand together could indicate a Yozi connection... but there's no way to be certain."

"Hmm..." Her superior said, her voice trailing off in just the right way to provoke the blonde woman's nerves even further, before she continued, "In the end it doesn't matter where they're from and how strong they are, they're too large a threat to ignore. Acolyte's requested your help with his latest batch of seeding, and Poison wants you to carry out some reconnaissance for him, so we can't deal with them immediately, but we'll move once those tasks are complete."

Her superior paused for a moment, and the blonde woman half-expected her to end the conversation there, but then her superior's voice suddenly cut back in. "Understand this. When the time comes, I expect you both to be ready for open combat. If either one of you is not up my standards, then I will be taking over your training personally until you meet my expectations. Is that clear?"

"I… I… " The blonde woman stammered, thrown by the sudden threat. Where had that come from? Her superior had never complained about her combat abilities before, so why the sudden change? Had she displeased her somehow? Missed something that she shouldn't have? And with that threat applying to both of them...

She swallowed, before pulling together enough composure to say. "Y-yes. It is."

"Good. For now, meet with Acolyte by sundown tomorrow in the usual location. I will contact you both then." And with that the light on the blonde woman's communicator winked out, leaving her in total darkness once again.

And within a few seconds, the room was once again occupied by nothing except the still and silent shadows of the night.
 
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