Green Sun, Black Shadows (CG/Exalted)

Being a rebel is a little too much like the Ebon Dragon, we need some more use of this excellency than that.

You should not look at a single keyword. Having any three keywords active is enough to activate an Excellency, so just having a bit of overlap in Excellencies you have isn't necessarily a bad thing. One thing the third option has that stands out is "defies all odds" which is very not-Ebon Dragon, because rising above is not really something the Ebon Dragon does or understands. All Excellencies could be used to defy the odds in that they warp probability in the user's favor, but in this case it's practically a free keyword in any desperate situation.


I think in terms of pure easy to use, the second option is the best. Just do things unconventionally and it will always proc. The third option is more about being a horrible monster. The first is just fluff.

There is nothing in the third option that requires you to be a horrible monster to use it, or at least not any more of a horrible monster than being a rather alien, monstrous, strange being you will become simply by taking Infernal charms. You said it yourself, it's not about WHAT you can do, but HOW you do it.

You want to stop an evil tyrant? Use Oramus Charms to drive him mad, give him severe depression as a derangement, and things like that until he either self destructs or his own followers decide to kill him. Are there cleaner, more straightforward ways to solve the problem? Sure, but they're not necessarily in your toolbox, so use what you've got. Or maybe you've come across a starving village, and the only way you can save them is using Locus Mana Plague. Sure, you're kind of mind-raping them to revere you and follow the Laws of Cecelyne, but they'll live when they otherwise would have died, and there's nothing stopping you from being a benevolent ruler who cares for his people. Hell, you can use the same Charm tree to summon a crapload of mutant demons for your military so your people can live peacefully instead of having to conscript them like some Solar asshole who uses his Essence fueled words to mind-rape a bunch of farmers off their land to join his army when they otherwise wouldn't.


Given the main mechanical differences between the first and third are the exceptions of coercion vs doubt and applicability to art versus prayer, why not simply add art to the third excellency? The descriptors of Oramus are fairly similar thematically in both, and both note his abilities as an artist as fairly central to this concept. Plus doubt is a far more compelling issue for Lelouch than coercion, and actually stands to have some impact during the course of this story.

It's already in the third one.

"The Sevenfold Peacock is an artist without parallel, expressing his inspiration in eye-watering images and tales that drive men mad."


Try to avoid fancy concept instead focus on ease of use. Art isn't going to be much use to a general beyond a single stunt.

If anything, TED excellency is actually the best for what lulu wants to do.

There is nothing that says we are limited to being a general. As an Exalted we are capable of being many things. We don't want to spread too thin, but adding 'artist' to our repertoire wouldn't be a bad thing - lots of Oramus's Charms use art. At Essence 4 Soul-Eroding Production can be used to use Words that Twist Like Daggers against someone at range if they are viewing an original piece of art created by the Infernal, and at Essence 5 it lets you teleport to it. Art can also be used for regular social attacks, and being an artist without parallel could make them very effective.

We could for instance use our various Charms to create an artist persona, invite a number of Britannian nobles to a viewing of our artwork, and then do all sorts of things with that opportunity. Drive them mad with the appropriate Charms, use Locust Mana Plague (either with an ally or by ourself if we have the Charm) to make o'dourves to get them on our side, use the themes of our peerless artwork as social attacks to change their views of the world, or just use the entire thing as a trap to kill them all once they're gathered in one place.

We can also use the artistic aspect of our Excellency and the relevant Charms to enhance the art of others. If we got Clovis on our side we could use them to enhance his artistic skills to use for our purposes. Or whoever creates our custom, unique Knightmares can have their efforts enhanced by making them not only weapons of war but glorious, unique works of art.
 
You should not look at a single keyword. Having any three keywords active is enough to activate an Excellency, so just having a bit of overlap in Excellencies you have isn't necessarily a bad thing. One thing the third option has that stands out is "defies all odds" which is very not-Ebon Dragon, because rising above is not really something the Ebon Dragon does or understands. All Excellencies could be used to defy the odds in that they warp probability in the user's favor, but in this case it's practically a free keyword in any desperate situation.




There is nothing in the third option that requires you to be a horrible monster to use it, or at least not any more of a horrible monster than being a rather alien, monstrous, strange being you will become simply by taking Infernal charms. You said it yourself, it's not about WHAT you can do, but HOW you do it.

You want to stop an evil tyrant? Use Oramus Charms to drive him mad, give him severe depression as a derangement, and things like that until he either self destructs or his own followers decide to kill him. Are there cleaner, more straightforward ways to solve the problem? Sure, but they're not necessarily in your toolbox, so use what you've got. Or maybe you've come across a starving village, and the only way you can save them is using Locus Mana Plague. Sure, you're kind of mind-raping them to revere you and follow the Laws of Cecelyne, but they'll live when they otherwise would have died, and there's nothing stopping you from being a benevolent ruler who cares for his people. Hell, you can use the same Charm tree to summon a crapload of mutant demons for your military so your people can live peacefully instead of having to conscript them like some Solar asshole who uses his Essence fueled words to mind-rape a bunch of farmers off their land to join his army when they otherwise wouldn't.




It's already in the third one.

"The Sevenfold Peacock is an artist without parallel, expressing his inspiration in eye-watering images and tales that drive men mad."




There is nothing that says we are limited to being a general. As an Exalted we are capable of being many things. We don't want to spread too thin, but adding 'artist' to our repertoire wouldn't be a bad thing - lots of Oramus's Charms use art. At Essence 4 Soul-Eroding Production can be used to use Words that Twist Like Daggers against someone at range if they are viewing an original piece of art created by the Infernal, and at Essence 5 it lets you teleport to it. Art can also be used for regular social attacks, and being an artist without parallel could make them very effective.

We could for instance use our various Charms to create an artist persona, invite a number of Britannian nobles to a viewing of our artwork, and then do all sorts of things with that opportunity. Drive them mad with the appropriate Charms, use Locust Mana Plague (either with an ally or by ourself if we have the Charm) to make o'dourves to get them on our side, use the themes of our peerless artwork as social attacks to change their views of the world, or just use the entire thing as a trap to kill them all once they're gathered in one place.

We can also use the artistic aspect of our Excellency and the relevant Charms to enhance the art of others. If we got Clovis on our side we could use them to enhance his artistic skills to use for our purposes. Or whoever creates our custom, unique Knightmares can have their efforts enhanced by making them not only weapons of war but glorious, unique works of art.

All good points. Except no want wants to play as an artist. Lulu has a character concept outside of his exaltation. Being an Infernal doesn't change what he is until he gets shit like Witness to Darkness.

There are some paths that are just OC for him to go down. And boring to play.
 
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All good points. Except no want wants to play as an artist. Lulu has a character concept outside of his exaltation. Being an Infernal doesn't change what he is until he gets shit like Witness to Darkness.

There are some paths that are just OC for him to go down. And boring to play.

Nobody wants to play as an artist exclusively, but that doesn't mean nobody wants to incorporate art into Lelouch's character. I can imagine him taking up painting or something else as a hobby since he could use his hobby as a weapon against Britannia. I find the idea quite appealing, personally.
 
Nobody wants to play as an artist exclusively, but that doesn't mean nobody wants to incorporate art into Lelouch's character. I can imagine him taking up painting or something else as a hobby since he could use his hobby as a weapon against Britannia. I find the idea quite appealing, personally.
Again, it's OOC for him to do so. Being an infernal isn't about extending skill, it's about extending personality. If being an artist wasn't already there, there is no in story reason to act that way.

And Defying All Odds is actually a horrible keyword for SV considering the only way it would apply if we're constantly the underdog. It would mean taking risks in a voter base that's extremely risk adverse. Bad idea.
 
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Again, it's OOC for him to do so.

I don't really see why. Lelouch will use any and every weapon he can to achieve his goals. The arsenal of tricks he's been provided with is very different than the one he was given in canon, so what he'll do to achieve his ends will be different.

And Defying All Odds is actually a horrible keyword for SV considering the only way it would apply if we're constantly the underdog. It would mean taking risks in a voter base that's extremely risk adverse. Bad idea.

Again, it's one keyword of many. It's not like we have to intentionally use it for every use of the Excellency. It's one tool of many. What it's really useful for dealing with unexpected situations where the odds of success, escape, or what have you are low - Suzaku or some other badass shows up, or something like that.

There's also other creative uses. For example, we have resources from Gambling. Let's say we need a large influx of cash...

Stunt: Lelouch entered the high rollers' room of the casino, hiding all doubt he had in this idea behind the false face created by Loom Snarling Deception. All anyone would see was boundless confidence, in spite of the odds being against him. He knew this was a longshot, but he would defy the odds, for they meant nothing to the champion of Orasmus. The various nobles scoffed and called him mad when he placed his bet at the roulette table. "Seven million dollars on seven." The wheel spun, the ball bounced, the ball landed. Silence reigned. Lelouch only smiled.

Pump enough motes into that to ensure success and you turn 7 million dollars into 252 million dollars, a vast increase in monetary resources.
 
So lets see what's left if you eliminate all the artsy and the popular "Against All Odds"

alien
unknowable.
beyond reality
disregards natural order
enigmatic
defines and transcends all boundaries
shatters expectations
ignores conventions
seals
contrast with himself
wisdom commensurate
solutions none thought possible
drive men mad
holds within his belly
discovery
horror personified
snapping minds
nightmares unspeakable
.
adores rebellion
desperate faith
hides all doubts
shuns Creation's corrupt deities
.
 
Seems like a pretty solid excellency, yes. I seriously doubt we will ever need another one.

I think you're giving too much credit to Alien and Strange keywords, once the strange becomes the norm people expect from you they no longer work. The defy expectation stuff is good though but it really needs to be defying expectation because as soon as it's expected, these keywords become useless.

After that you're left with scaring people and being a horrible monster.

The third option is the least mechanically flexable.
 
Enigmatic, discovery,desperate faith,wisdom commensurate,solutions none thought possible.

Enigmatic fits like a T to the whole Zero thing. Solutions none though possible fits Lulu in general like a T too.

Orasmus excellency can do much more that "scaring people". Just the number 7 thing is enough
for anything we can plan with time, and we have plenty keywords to deal with unexpected problems.
 
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Enigmatic, discovery,desperate faith,wisdom commensurate,solutions none thought possible.

Enigmatic fits like a T to the whole Zero thing. Solutions none though possible fits Lulu in general like a T too.

Orasmus excellency can do much more that "scaring people". Just the number 7 thing is enough
for anything we can plan with time, and we have plenty keywords to deal with unexpected problems.


Try to work those few keywords into stunts. It's not easy. Yeah, they're good on paper not good mechanically.
 
Try to work those few keywords into stunts. It's not easy. Yeah, they're good on paper not good mechanically.
Actually, it can also just need the most tangential connection to the number seven. Seven is easy.

Hey, for that art charm that let's us make unique works of art and then effect the viewers of that art... What if we made Zero an art? Like acting, or performing? That's so broken.
 
[X] 3 - Third possibility.

Art isn't so bad really, you don't need to think paintings, or such.

A mural is art, as is a banner, decal, or even a poem and through Orasmus, they can be powerful psychological weapons.
 
You do realize the second possibility is the only one with the Anticipate keyword. It's the most mechanically powerful and flexible for Lulu because he is the analytical type.

And as for art, it's not just regular art. It's disturbing art which will have an impact in the performance of our mundane troops as well as PR.

And then there is the distinction that art is not armor. You could get away with art on our costume but what if we had artifact armor? And because we didn't make it, we can't decorate it.
 
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What if instead we named it seven?
Then we could apply out excellency to anything related to that persona.

We can also organize our army into units with multiples of seven. A squad is made of seven men. A platoon of 21 (7 * 3). A company 147 (21 * 7). Any action we take utilizing our army becomes applicable because the base number of our army's organization from the bottom up is seven.
 
We can also organize our army into units with multiples of seven. A squad is made of seven men. A platoon of 21 (7 * 3). A company 147 (21 * 7). Any action we take utilizing our army becomes applicable because the base number of our army's organization from the bottom up is seven.

No, seven is not an explicit keyword in any of the excellencies. As a stunt, you can use it but stunts that repeats more then once are no longer stunts thus will not proc the excellency. At best you can get that each application of seven is distinct from other meaning the first time you split troops into seven counts. Every time after does not. Wearing seven rings count the first time but not every time after the first.
 
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[x] 3 - Third possibility.


Will this quest be using the homebrew Unwoven Coadjutor modifications and charms created by Earthscorpion? It seems like they would be a good accompaniment to the active role that you have given Lelouch's Coadjutor.

Here is a link to the homebrew for people who don't already have it: The Fourth Soul - A Rewrite of the Unwoven Coadjutor

Earlier in the thread the GM confirmed that yes we are using that home brew rules among others
 
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