A reminder - the Reds are playing on the side of Outsiders, and everyone seems to know ot and yet no one does anything.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
We don't actually know that. The Red Court may be trying to use the outsiders for their own aims just like the Black Council is.
^^^
The Reds want to rule, not to destroy reality. They seek power, not annihilation. It just turns out that almost everyone who thinks they can use the Outsiders to their own goals of power and glory almost always find themselves in above their heads.
Those who play with the devil's toys will be brought by degrees to wield his sword.
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VOTE
[X] You will take your chances with a closer emergence, time could mean lives
The Reds want to rule, not to destroy reality. They seek power, not annihilation. It just turns out that almost everyone who thinks they can use the Outsiders to their own goals of power and glory almost always find themselves in above their heads.
Those who play with the devil's toys will be brought by degrees to wield his sword.
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VOTE
[X] You will take your chances with a closer emergence, time could mean lives
The thing is that Hellfire is a very specific power in the DF where you draw from the Fallen's Hell.
I can buy a functionally similar sponsored magic being provided, but even if you take them as all being the same tier they wouldn't be the same thing and wouldn't be referred to by the same name by someone like McCoy.
In part it's a cultural branding thing. No American is ever going to call a burger a grilled beef sandwich even if that's technically accurate description. Similarly, a burger made with other meat will get called out. A turkey burger will almost always be called that instead of just a burger.
If he meant Lanka's hatefire or something then he almost certainly would have been specific.
They publicly and on large scale associate with outsiders. That alone is a reason not to make them part of anything to do with Outer Gates. It should be a reason for them to be exterminated, but isn't somehow.
I mean in the middle of high intensity situation. I do get what you mean about cultural branding but in the middle of combat Hellfire which is for wizards the same thing as Lanka hate fire but one of those is definitely less well known than the other so you might as well call it Hellfire anyway simply because it's a fire of hell and it does the same thing if it hits you. Which is to say eat away at your magic and try to fucking eat you maliciously so don't get hit by it "Hellfire incoming".
BoredMan
Dinosaurs came in many flavors. Like potato chips.
They even source them to other factions/individuals like the Walker we fought at the ball. Kind of undermines Winter's efforts at the Gates if a global scale faction blatantly brings them in past the Gates and furthers their agenda. I wouldn't be surprised if Peabody was sourced his current patron from the Reds it's that bad.
Edit: The Las Vegas event was also partially because of a Rampire. It keeps happening!!
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This.
When he first met and talked with Molly, he described her not as a hell-princess, but specifically as something out of Lanka:
This was after seeing Molly's hell aura and demon sword with all the fire on it.
When he says Hellfire here, he isnt likely to be talking about something out of the Thousand Hells.
Or from beyond the Outer Gates.
Dude has the experience to be precise about what he's referring to.
And precision is probably necessary here, since he's about to lead other wizards into combat.
The vulnerabilities, and applicable banes, of the hostiles they will meet are different depending on their affiliation.
Holy water might work on people aligned with Hell; wont work on Outsiders AFAIK.
We know nothing about the source of the Raith Ball Walker.
The White Court has its own independent history of meddlers playing footsie with Outsiders; the White King has an antimagic Investment from Outsiders, and was using an Outsider-summoning ritual to kill people in Blood Rites.
There is no grand conspiracy of evil, and Evil will backstab Evil as soon as they find it profitable to do so.
Do remember that the White Court under Lord Raith masterminded the fall of the Black Court of vampires.
And in this quest, the Red Court specifically fucked over Iku-Turso and the Pathfinders.
They act in their own perceived interest.
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BoredMan
Dinosaurs came in many flavors. Like potato chips.
I thought it was established otherwise but I don't care enough to go back and check. At any rate yes some of the Whites do, undermining what Winter does even more but the Reds are way worse and much more blatant with it. Shouldn't even have trusted a Red to hold the Gate in Vegas.
- Location
- washington
Part of this might be that winters being cheap and letting the council deal with it first. Also you know its probably not the first time shit like this has been pulled by an earth faction.
Or they don't think the Red Court's dealings with Outsiders are a real threat, and it's worth whatever risk it does present if the result is to weaken or destroy the White Council.
Winter could well also be indirectly trying to use Outsiders as a weapon, by turning a blind eye to the Red Court using them against a mutual enemy/competitor, given the way that the White Council is the only major supernatural power that stands up for humanity.
This is probably foolish and short sighted, but is probably quite possible.
- Location
- washington
ehhh I'm fairly sure mab does not want to weaken white council. Also not to be rude but the white council is not a threat to the winter court they'd need to like double or triple their numbers to reasonably fully threaten the court.
BoredMan
Dinosaurs came in many flavors. Like potato chips.
If it's been done by other global scale factions, so blatantly, consistently and to such a degree we haven't heard of them. They don't seem to face much in the way of reprisal from the Fae Courts on a non personal vendetta sort of way. I'm guessing their charge with the Gates only extends to that.
That wouldn't make sense. Maeve and Lea got N'fested because of the Reds.
- Location
- washington
because full blown war is costly and its estimated winters standing forces are like 40k? Losing thousands of soldiers when the white council is already at war with them isn't the best bet when they can just wait first.
Also you know mab clearly somewhat masterminded the events in canon to end up in their extinction. Not completely of course but it was definitely a factor in their complete destruction.
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BoredMan
Dinosaurs came in many flavors. Like potato chips.
Where did you get 40k? Not saying your wrong but I don't recall hard numbers. I don't see why it'd necessitate "full blown war". If the entirety of the Reds fought Mab they'd only have a chance of winning. Cutting the heads off the snake and making it known why was/is an option and I doubt they only started messing with Outsiders after declaring war.
I don't see Mab taking advantage of a situation as being proactive about it. They really must only be obligated to hold the Gates not so much fighting Outsiders in general if they need an excuse.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Winter has quite a few limitations on how they can act on earth. Including the fact whenever they try and act on earth the summon court sends someone to keep an eye on them as well as interfere with them for what Winter thinks of as dumb reasons.
Supernaturals could just as easily point out that every Outsider summoning from beyond th Gates requires a mortal magic user.
And so mortals cant be trusted
A Red is not the Red Court as a whole, and as both Changes demonstrated in canon, and th Vegas affair demonstrated here, Reds are not a monolith
I wouldnt trust a Red without guarantees, but the Sin-Eater had the Dragon in service for close to a century of peace.
1)We've only been around for less than a year. If other people are trying shit, we might not know
Its canon in WoD that at least one Yama King has dealings with their equivalent of the Outside, for example.
2)Summer almost decapitated the Red Court last year during Proven Guilty.
If a diversion hadnt pulled off enough of the White Council to allow the Red King and and his army to retreat, they would have been caught on the battlefield as the sun rose with no prep, which would have massacred their mooks and allowed the wizards and Fae to focus down the elders.
That one ambush almost ended the Vampire War.
Then there was Mab providing Harry sufficient backing to attack the Reds in their own place of power in Changes.
The Fae are immortal, and take a long view of grudges.
That doesnt mean they dont settle them.
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Vote closed
Damn this is late, sorry about this guys, I was very busy today
Damn this is late, sorry about this guys, I was very busy today