Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
It hardly matters if the wizards spot Molly if they spot all the wizards with us.
OK, q stupid idea along the lines of Malfean Stealth - use BMI to turn into Hollow Man. It would certainly confuse the cultists when their patron starts smiting them.
I thought it was more about Molly getting in, then dipping in and out of Sanctuary to bring in wizards. If we can get undetected to one of bathrooms I WC headquarters, we can call in support there.
- Location
- washington
I dunno uh gatekeeper is probably up there. Also the black staff is notably better at combat than the Merlin given their both stupidly good at combat.
Also funnily butcher has kinda hinted even if Merlin is dead which he hasn't told us if he is or not dude fucked with time. So could still be around in some capacity somewhere or when.
- Location
- Canada
The Merlin is referred to as the most powerful wizard on the planet several times in the series. Is this just speculation, or is the Merlin position filled through some sort of test of power and skill?
The Merlin is a wizard who can give an order that probably 80 or 85 percent of the other wizards in the world will follow, including most of the Wardens. He's also the CEO of the White Council's financial holdings. He /is/ the most powerful wizard in the world, based on THAT if nothing else.
You don't get to be the Merlin without also being the guy that the rest of the Senior Council thinks can take them out, if it came down to a conflict–they're the ones who select a new Merlin from among themselves. Langtry regards direct, open conflict as a failure to use all his other options, when it comes down to it, and when he does fight he does it fast and hard and is utterly without fear–see the end battle with Peabody's pet in Turn Coat.
The Merlin is a wizard who can give an order that probably 80 or 85 percent of the other wizards in the world will follow, including most of the Wardens. He's also the CEO of the White Council's financial holdings. He /is/ the most powerful wizard in the world, based on THAT if nothing else.
You don't get to be the Merlin without also being the guy that the rest of the Senior Council thinks can take them out, if it came down to a conflict–they're the ones who select a new Merlin from among themselves. Langtry regards direct, open conflict as a failure to use all his other options, when it comes down to it, and when he does fight he does it fast and hard and is utterly without fear–see the end battle with Peabody's pet in Turn Coat.
The Merlin is where the buck stops at. He's the guy everyone on the Senior Council thinks can take them out. Basically, he didn't get there by politics, other than the most primitive politics of having the biggest stick. Ironic, considering the Blackstaff.
Really but the staff itself what it really does is it keeps Eb sane while he's doing insane things.
Would you tell us how a person gets choosen to be The Blackstaff of the White Council?
Heh. He picks up the Blackstaff with full knowledge of what he's in for if he does. If you can find someone crazy enough to do that, and reliable enough to be trusted with it, he gets the job.
Would you tell us how a person gets choosen to be The Blackstaff of the White Council?
Heh. He picks up the Blackstaff with full knowledge of what he's in for if he does. If you can find someone crazy enough to do that, and reliable enough to be trusted with it, he gets the job.
But the Blackstaff is picked for reliability rather than power; what's more, the only thing it provides Eb is the ability to use black magic and break the Laws without going insane. Sure that's a power boost, but it doesn't do anything more than that, and doesn't mean Arthur can't take out Eb.
Jim: Rashid is, by far, the most dangerous of the Senior Council. Which is not the same thing as most powerful.
The Gatekeeper is the most dangerous, but like the Blackstaff he's still on the Senior Council, the same SC that picks the Merlin specifically to be the strongest wizard in the White Council.
- Location
- washington
I probably should have said dakka as I'm fairly sure eb surpasses the Merlin there also you know more actual combat experience by a fuck ton. Given the Merlin could obviously beat him in a fight these things aren't really clear cut in combat. Also it doesn't necessarily say strongest it says can reasonably take them out. I doubt the Merlin can pull off as much sheer destruction as the current black staff even if they can kill them.
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I don't think we can rely on the fortress of the council having the same weaknesses as one warlock's house.
- Location
- washington
you know its honestly weird the warlocks house had a threshold at all. He had a slave in that house and was using the place for monstrous experiments and already lived alone. The house should of had its threshold disappear a while ago.
Given I don't think his actions were out of 100% pure malice but like all these things do not make for a healthy threshold. Also it being the one place he feels safe may of made it work just enough if that was true.
Given I don't think his actions were out of 100% pure malice but like all these things do not make for a healthy threshold. Also it being the one place he feels safe may of made it work just enough if that was true.
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They have to have water there, I think. And even kf it's warded, I am fairly sure that RVD bypasses them. @DragonParadox do the White Council Headquarters have running water or sewer connection? If so, are those warded, and does RVD actually care?
They have water of course, but no external sewer connection, either because of paranoia, or more likely because they had already drawn ground water with magic long before modern waterworks and a sewage system was introduced to the city.
I wonder if we can move through aquifers.
If they have connection to ground water source, can't we use that for RVD.
You cannot, an aquifer blurs the line between water and very moist earth too much. Remember this is the charm of the poison sea, it can work with small volumes of liquid, but it has to be clearly delimited. You can fit in a tea cup, but not a soggy cloth.
I owe some replies, so hopefully I'll get around to them later today. Just quick comments:
Ebenezar got jumped by someone with Hellfire, which specifically suggests there's a Coin-bearer involved here.
Either a Denarian, or someone who has high-level Infernal Investments.
Its just not something we're used to seeing out of Outsiders or their minions in canon.
In the Dresden Files, Hellfire appears to be exclusive to Lucifer's faction; I dont think we've ever seen anyone else use it.
And given McCoy's reaction here, its use is generally bad news in this AU
Its not impossible that other people have access, just like Odin has soulfire. Still, Lash should be able to tell us, anyway.
Either way, someone has the Time Sphere on the side of the opposition.
We are likely to need to use EIPP to avoid shaping traps.
Lydia has an anti-shaping charm, but neither Olivia, Lash or Harry does.
Edinburgh, Scotland is a coastal city. Castle Rock, which is supposed to be immediately above the central fortress of the Hidden Halls, is approximately 2-3 miles from the shoreline in a straight line.
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If Molly boogies right now, at 34 yards/second + Rendered Villain Dispersal, she'd be there in less than 3 minutes.
15 seconds to reach the Great Lakes from Last Station, 20 seconds or less to cross the Atlantic from Chicago to the Scottish coast, <2 minutes to get from the North Sea coastline to Castle Rock.
Then disgorge party members and wizards from Sanctuary to find their way in from a surface entrance.
And because it should still be night time in Scotland, in winter, Molly can fly more or less freely.
Normally, Id suggest Anonymity Through Propriety.
But because she will be hauling mortal party members, she cant really afford to make herself invisible to everyone with Willpower less than 10. So she'd have to rely on speed and aggression.
Alternatively? Sophia could activate Blur of the Milky Eye for stealth, then teleport into Edinburgh just outside the wards of the Hidden Halls, and start playing something on her phone/iPod-alike for Molly to home in on from Sanctuary and open a hellgate. Which would shave ~2 minutes from setup time, and avoid most of the perimeter alerts.
Im not sure this is mechanics OK though, and I have too much of a headache to dig up my books.
COMMENTARY
Ebenezar got jumped by someone with Hellfire, which specifically suggests there's a Coin-bearer involved here.
Either a Denarian, or someone who has high-level Infernal Investments.
Its just not something we're used to seeing out of Outsiders or their minions in canon.
In the Dresden Files, Hellfire appears to be exclusive to Lucifer's faction; I dont think we've ever seen anyone else use it.
And given McCoy's reaction here, its use is generally bad news in this AU
Its not impossible that other people have access, just like Odin has soulfire. Still, Lash should be able to tell us, anyway.
Either way, someone has the Time Sphere on the side of the opposition.
We are likely to need to use EIPP to avoid shaping traps.
Lydia has an anti-shaping charm, but neither Olivia, Lash or Harry does.
If you take a look on Google Maps?
Edinburgh, Scotland is a coastal city. Castle Rock, which is supposed to be immediately above the central fortress of the Hidden Halls, is approximately 2-3 miles from the shoreline in a straight line.
====
If Molly boogies right now, at 34 yards/second + Rendered Villain Dispersal, she'd be there in less than 3 minutes.
15 seconds to reach the Great Lakes from Last Station, 20 seconds or less to cross the Atlantic from Chicago to the Scottish coast, <2 minutes to get from the North Sea coastline to Castle Rock.
Then disgorge party members and wizards from Sanctuary to find their way in from a surface entrance.
And because it should still be night time in Scotland, in winter, Molly can fly more or less freely.
Normally, Id suggest Anonymity Through Propriety.
But because she will be hauling mortal party members, she cant really afford to make herself invisible to everyone with Willpower less than 10. So she'd have to rely on speed and aggression.
Alternatively? Sophia could activate Blur of the Milky Eye for stealth, then teleport into Edinburgh just outside the wards of the Hidden Halls, and start playing something on her phone/iPod-alike for Molly to home in on from Sanctuary and open a hellgate. Which would shave ~2 minutes from setup time, and avoid most of the perimeter alerts.
Im not sure this is mechanics OK though, and I have too much of a headache to dig up my books.
No it doesn't. Hellfire the Path is fairly common - one of the members of Order of Cauldron we met has it for example. Hellfire the fires of hell can be granted by investment from beings like Yama Kings too, likely including Outsiders.
- Location
- washington
you know your kinda right but its annoying something like that is so much more common in this combined setting. Also outsiders really really shouldn't have it.
Outsiders probably grant some sort of equivalent, but other non-Fallen entities, like straight up demons, probably can also provide it via bargains
You are mistaken. Or at least conflating different things.
The Path of Hellfire is a standard Path for deployment of destructive magics by linear sorcerers aka Path magic users.
Fire, lightning, acid etc are all Path of Hellfire.
Wizards dont use Path magic, so this wasnt that anyway. McCoy wouldnt have been troubled by this.
McCoy specifically called out Hellfire.
Hellfire in the Dresden Files is something we have only ever seen with Coin-bearers, whether full Denarians or just people like Harry who were being given access as part of the process of corruption.
Just like soulfire has usually required the involvement of an angel somewhere along the line.
The investment that Yama Kings grant does not give access to Dresdenverse Hellfire.
And as far as we've seen, Outsiders have no access to it.
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From what we've been told, the Yama Kings, being Ministers of Heaven who have mostly fallen to some degree or people who've killed and seized the mantle of Ministers of Heaven, have access to (fallen) angelic powers.
They may not have fallen alongside the Morningstar, but those who no longer obey Heaven's strictures (although a couple do) are still fallen angels or wearing the mantle of a fallen angel, so it makes sense that they'd have access to something like Hellfire, given they have their own capital H Hells.
Although for some of them it may be Hellcold or Hellacid.
They may not have fallen alongside the Morningstar, but those who no longer obey Heaven's strictures (although a couple do) are still fallen angels or wearing the mantle of a fallen angel, so it makes sense that they'd have access to something like Hellfire, given they have their own capital H Hells.
Although for some of them it may be Hellcold or Hellacid.
- Location
- washington
I mean yeah I get what ya mean just find it annoying. Also thats more fair I thought you meant hellfire but outsiders could probably provide an alternative.
- Location
- washington
hasn't dp used specific abilities taken from paths and given them to mages in this quest? For ease on mechanics before.
Im feeling too miserable to litigate this claim right now.
Its significant that the arguably most powerful YK of modern times is a self-made man who made his own Hell from scratch.
The genesis of the Thousand Hells is unlikely to be identical, or even broadly similar to how it is laid out in Kindred of the East.
The existence of an active White God largely precludes that
But thats a different matter
Either way, Tiffany should know which factions have corporate access to Hellfire in the first place.
And critically, which of them can bestow them on other people.
Not all powers can be shared, IIRC.
We havent really had mage antagonists in this quest so far besides Sandra.
And if the QM were doing so just to simplify mechanics, they wouldnt make such a big deal of it narratively. The use of Hellfire here is signposted as a major issue
We've been told in this quest by DP that's what the original Yama Kings are. You may disagree, but that's what they are here. Mikaboshi is in part so powerful because he killed an at least part fallen angel and seized its mantle/power, or someone else had previously done that and he seized that power from them in turn:
The history of the Thousand Hells seem to be similar to that of KotE. God put a bunch of angels/ministers of heaven in charge of the Hells for them to rehabilitate mortal souls through punishment and most of them got greedy and fell into corruption, and subsequently other powers joined their number, whether by killing and replacing the fallen angels/ministers or some other means.
In the same way Lucifer fell and became Satan, the Heavenly Ministers in charge of what became the Hells mostly fell and became the Yama Kings. Lucifer under this model, is just one of the many angels who fell at different times, if a particularly powerful one who led other angels to fall with him.
Just as in some forms of angel/chistiology the sires of the Nephilim were angels who fell thanks to their lust but weren't part of Lucifer's treason.
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The lord of the wicked city is indeed a self-made man but he's a self-made man through murder not through making a hell, come on we've been over this a couple of times already.
Never mind even in Dresden Files the fallen angels are only one faction of Hell a very powerful faction of possible Hells but not actually the entirety of them and definitely not the only beings that have or had Hellfire either.
Edit:Ninja'd
I'm thinking more to the tune of a system meant to defend from something slipping in this way with some actual juice behind it.
Remember the Council is a big scary monster in its own right, to the point that they get a seat on the Outer Gate defense board and the reds don't.
They aren't the same as mages, but for our purposes it's not entirely wrong to envision them as what might happen if all non technocracy mage Traditions came together to form one government and actually meant it. Then took one of the largest dragon nests on Earth and spent the better part of five hundred years showing off to each other by making their shared capitol an even killier super fortress.
The odds that someone specifically put defenses in place for water spirits or something that detect us/respond to Molly materializing aren't as remote as I'd like.