Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

As an aside, now that we have crafting do we want to schedule a visit to Cleveland for that Rakasha?
Either to eat its soul and harvest the body for reagents or to compel it to make gossamer for us in exchange for not doing that.
I cant imagine any situation in which it would be IC for Molly to break into a prison in order to kill or enslave the prisoner for her own personal benefit.

And I will note that even the perpetual boundary-pushers of the Red Court considered that meddling with the prison of the primordial Raksha godmonster to be a little beyond the pale.
And thats coming from the dudes using lesser Outsiders as combat servitors.

Isn't it still in reality? It's just in a shoebox with a weak point facing Cleveland. Eventually it'll bother people again, and a growing primordial's gotta eat.
Might as well have a traditional Rakasha roast like her spiritual ancestors and solve a future problem at the same time.
This is Black Nexus Concordiat thinking. Y'know, the dudes who cracked open the tombs of the Neverborn for loot.
Thats a really poor model to emulate.
IMO.
Battle Script​
11th of December 2006 A.D.
Well, Carlos certainly seems to be having fun.
Kinda chortling at Morgan of all people dragging Dresden as the responsible one
:V
Rolls
*Morgan's rolls hidden*
Molly vs Wu Min
Perception: Molly vs Wu Min
Those rolls have Molly throwing margins of 10 successes against a wizard diplomat with social Rotes.
Sure, she's no Aleron LaFortier or Ancient Mai.
Still an illustration of just how far an Exalt can go with Ability 5 and a social Excellency.




VOTE
[X] This is the context in which those thoughts came to mind




RATIONALE
I agree with BronzeTongue on this vote. Its both literally the truth, and the right thing to say.
The other options give too much away one way or the other

One gives the impression of attempting to manipulate Council wizards into helping us pursue a vendetta.
Which is both untrue, and runs actively counter to our interests.

The other? Well, the fact that the Infernal shard used to be fought over by Yama Kings is only known to very few people even in the NeverNever, and is not exactly public knowledge; disclosing its previous wielders suggests that it was discovered in/around Yomi Wan and we dont want to encourage people to go looking in Yomi Wan in the hope that there's other shards or relics of comparable power still there.

Especially since there is a distinct chance that some of the eyes that will read Wu Min's eventual report arent trustworthy.
I mean, I think Corpsetaker and Grevane both used to be Council wizards.
Hell, Justin DuMorne was a senior Warden.

Peabody has certainly gotten his hands on the Big Book of Yomi Wan.
 
Well, Carlos certainly seems to be having fun.
Kinda chortling at Morgan of all people dragging Dresden as the responsible one
:V

The options from where Morgan is standing are:
  1. Dresden
  2. 'Holy shit that is an actual baby. What do you mean he's an adult? Look at him!' :V
The council has been starting to hire on Wardens younger than the norm due to the war, does not mean Morgan has to like it.
 
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[X] This is the context in which those thoughts came to mind

What's that? The God‐queen of an entire world with immortal-killing power holds forbidden knowledge that teaches how to deal with (read: conquer) demon kings? Her power seems inclined to secret lore and also stabbing people in the face with nuclear fire? Surely this isn't anything for the White Council to fret over!
 
So, this is not White Council lore. Dresden, who was trained by Blackstuff, isn't using this terminology and isn't, as I understand it, aware of this - he didn't know what Essence was when Lash used the term (when Molly was Becoming). It might be some deep Eastern lore, but I am betting on "dragonseed who failed to exalt but still has magical gift".
1)Dresden was trained by McCoy and DuMorne.
Both western born and raised wizards resident in the United States; DuMorne, at most, used to be a protege of Simon Petrovich, who was a Russian wizard, and also of the Western tradition.

Wu Min's an apparent protege of Ancient Mai, a very old Chinese wizard. Preferred terminology will differ.
I suspect that if you find anyone trained by Rashid the Arab or Listens to Wind the Indian Native American shaman, their preferred terminologies would likely be somewhat different.


2) Dresden's training was incomplete.
DuMorne was explicitly trying to make him and Elaine into magical thugs/weapons/henchmen, not full wizards, and deliberately omitted stuff he considered irrelevant to the role, or which might empower them against him.

Dresden was never really taught Latin, and learned what he knew by correspondence course.
He didnt know about Outsiders or the Laws, and canonically wasnt even taught that the White Council existed until Wardens showed up to arrest him after DuMorne's death.

McCoy spent time on remedial education, but he only had him for 2 years, as compared to the 6 years that DuMorne had him previously. He had to first get the kid's trust, and then prioritize on what he was important; a good chunk of that time was spent on ethics, as opposed to philosophy.
 
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1)Dresden was trained by McCoy and DuMorne.
Both western born and raised wizards resident in the United States; DuMorne, at most, used to be a protege of Simon Petrovich, who was a Russian wizard, and also of the Western tradition.

Wu Min's an apparent protege of Ancient Mai, a very old Chinese wizard. Preferred terminology will differ.
I suspect that if you find anyone trained by Rashid the Arab or Listens to Wind the Indian shaman, their preferred terminologies would likely be somewhat different.
This is not terminology. If it was, she would have spoken of Chi and Ying-Yang. But she listed those among other examples of names. She is talking about essence. This stuff:
Essence: The most basic building block of Creation, Essence is the energy that unites all things and from which all magic springs. To channel Essence is to work miracles and the might of the Exalted comes from their ability to do so.
...
This is the truth: The world is a great field of energy known as Essence. This Essence pervades all things, composes all things and controls all things. It is often called "breath" but it forms not only the respired medium of life, but also the physical material of that life. Essence is the wall of the structure that maintains Creation, and Essence is the swirling insanity that lies beyond it. Every creature is inseparable linked to Essence. When immortal, beings who can control and channel Essence are called gods. When mortal, they are named Exalted.
Somewhere somehow Ancient Mai has at least remnants of ancient lore.
 
[X] This is the context in which those thoughts came to mind

On diplomatic relations with Nation states... I'm not sure what Molly's opinion on the masquerade is but I think the larger and more open dealings are the better. This naturally degrades the ability to hide that such dealings exist, but the masquerade is just a tool for monsters that don't want their prey to defend themselves.

I guess the u.n. could just go 'they're aliens and this is totally scientific' and pretend bat monsters don't exist.

But the holes in the veil are going to start showing.

On another note, I think we should put a Stargate somewhere unclaimed. It wouldn't be difficult for Molly to get to the arctic or some no name island and set up shop. Even the most inhospitable places on earth wouldn't be a problem for sanctuary to build a base.
 
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[X] This is the context in which those thoughts came to mind

On diplomatic relations with Nation states... I'm not sure what Molly's opinion on the masquerade is but I think the larger and more open dealings are the better. This naturally degrades the ability to hide that such dealings exist, but the masquerade is just a tool for monsters that don't want their prey to defend themselves.

I guess the u.n. could just go 'they're aliens and this is totally scientific' and pretend bat monsters don't exist.

But the holes in the veil are going to start showing.

On another note, I think we should put a Stargate somewhere unclaimed. It wouldn't be difficult for Molly to get to the arctic or some no name island and set up shop. Even the most inhospitable places on earth wouldn't be a problem for sanctuary to build a base.
The wicked city has the perfect 1 dot charm for opening relations. Just make every mechanism within a few miles of the White House declare the opening of relations and where and when they should send the diplomats.
 
We already talked about why making a portal to Molly's soul is too risky with not enough gains to justify it.
Can you elaborate on the risk?

My understanding is that someone doing a nasty ritual in the middle of her soul could do a lot of damage, but also that the sort of beings capable of that would also be able to bypass a DC 9 gauntlet to enter the realm without a Stargate. If anything, having someone in a city makes them easier to watch.

Yeah, the environment is deadly, but an invader that pierces the gauntlet in a random spot and doesn't die right away is probably some kind of demon that doesn't need habitable conditions and wouldn't be spotted until they did damage.

there's a narrow subset of human appearing occultist that needs a Stargate to get in, and has the right chops to do some world destroying ritual while sanctuary security is watching.

definitely possible, but I think the number of people that can be dangerous to let in, would be allowed in, and can't get in anyways isn't large.

But I'm not sure where the threshold for a person to be to dangerous to enter is.

And if it turns out to be a large number of entities, we'll have to look at restricting summoning in the five courts so they don't bring demons in.
 
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I cant imagine any situation in which it would be IC for Molly to break into a prison in order to kill or enslave the prisoner for her own personal benefit.

And I will note that even the perpetual boundary-pushers of the Red Court considered that meddling with the prison of the primordial Raksha godmonster to be a little beyond the pale.
And thats coming from the dudes using lesser Outsiders as combat servitors.
This is Black Nexus Concordiat thinking. Y'know, the dudes who cracked open the tombs of the Neverborn for loot.
Thats a really poor model to emulate.
IMO.
My line of thinking is that the thing is still there and can't go anywhere else without going through Cleveland first. The whole end of that encounter seemed pretty clear that it was just putting the genie back in the bottle.

It needs to die or reform before it emerges again.

Can you elaborate on the risk?

My understanding is that someone doing a nasty ritual in the middle of her soul could do a lot of damage, but also that the sort of beings capable of that would also be able to bypass a DC 9 gauntlet to enter the realm without a Stargate. If anything, having someone in a city makes them easier to watch.
It broadens an attack surface.

People can't just perform a ritual to cross into Molly's hell just anywhere, right now the only known crossing point is literally in her presence.

A portal makes a permanent entryway that is intended to be out of our direct presence most of the time and which allows people through without requiring them to perform any sort of ritual themselves.

It's not like that sort of thing is easy either, DC 9 isn't impossible but it's not something most can do casually, for themselves or for large groups. People who are a threat can probably do it already, but being required to put forth the effort limits their options and consumes their resources/attention when making an attempt.

A number of denarians, for example, could get in. But what they couldn't do is send in an army of goons and less magically skilled coinbearers while also doing anything else with their magic themselves. They could get more casters capable of the job, but that's more resources of all kinds and a bigger footprint to the overall operation for us to notice in advance.

What you're talking about is the equivalent of sticking an IV line in, pulling that translucent blue port off the tube, and then leaving it uncapped for a swim in a particularly dirty river.

It's not impossible you'll get sick even without one, but putting a hole in yourself is lowering the barrier to entry for trying.
 
Also there is a certain matter of scale. Now that we have anti shaping defense if we get targeted by a powerful killing ritual every day that isn't much of a problem. It might start being a problem if it happens every hour.

Or I think that is the worry?
 
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Also there is a certain matter of scale. Now that we have anti shaping defense if we get targeted by a powerful killing ritual every day that isn't much of a problem. It might start being a problem if it happens every hour.

Or I think that is the worry?
That's harder to say. The shaping defense makes some things impossible, but it's possible if we roll poorly if they force enough attempts.

Also worth noting that Molly has tenants in her soul who aren't protected and some things might be problems for them which aren't shaping attacks. We might not have the option to oppose stuff like that.
 
Can you elaborate on the risk?

My understanding is that someone doing a nasty ritual in the middle of her soul could do a lot of damage, but also that the sort of beings capable of that would also be able to bypass a DC 9 gauntlet to enter the realm without a Stargate. If anything, having someone in a city makes them easier to watch.

Molly is the only one who can roll against that gauntlet using her own body as a focus point, that is a charm, a spiritual organ of sorts. Anyone else has to come in though the nevernever and step one of that is to even find the place.
 
Ok, looks like we are going for the middle option, not too little, not too much and hope it is enough to tempt her into reciprocating.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Oct 21, 2023 at 4:14 AM, finished with 41 posts and 18 votes.

  • [X] This is the context in which those thoughts came to mind
    [X] It is good to be proactive when dealing with such foes as the Yama Kings
    [X] In the long ages between its forging and me obtaining it, my crown has been used by the forces of Yomi as a weapon. It seemed fitting to use what taint they tried to smear it with as a weapon against them.
    [X] Pretend to know more than you actually do, but much is dangerous to know and you need to gauge how much she knows before you talk openly about it. Oblique references that hint at much is the name of the game.
    [x] This power I hold was long a weapon of war between the dark lords of Yomi
 
Arc 10 Post 20: Faces of Truth
Faces of Truth

11th of December 2006 A.D.

"That was the context in which they came to mind," you asnwer, the truth if not the whole of it, in hopes that she will reciprocate.

In the silence that follows there is a tap, just the one as her left hand starts to play nervously along the armrest of her chair before it is reigned in. Eyes less observant than yours might have missed it, but something tells you the woman across from you is used to speaking under eyes just as sharp."This context, memories experiences, the language of our thoughts it shapes what those thoughts are wouldn't you agree?"

"To an extent, that is why it is so important to know one's self. That really does sound like a cliche doesn't it? But I'd say there is enough of me to give a pass on it," you say motioning out the window with a smile. "It is less a destination I would say as a journey, more literal in parts than that metaphor usually is. There is much of this world I have not yet seen with my own eyes and know instead with flashes of insight, the lands of ice washed by rivers ethereal, the steaming jungles, the Labyrinth from which much was recovered and in which much is hidden..."

Abruptly her dark eyes widen with suspicion, with fear so deep she cannot hope to hide. Though you do not recognize the words spoken under Wu Min's breath the tone is one Harry might use to curse by Empty Night. Before you can ask what's wrong, mind already whirling with the question of how one deals with a panicking wizard a soft crackle cuts the silence though the air, for the merest instant you see a delicate silver bracelet around her left hand holding a single charm that might perhaps be mistaken for a tuft of red fur save for the way its edges shimmer like flame.

At this, whatever it had been her body language shifts, a faint flush of embarrassment upon her cheeks. After it becomes clear you intend to politely ignore the moment Wu Min collects her thoughts to continue:"I believe you previously named it a dream, born of memory and desire, colored by your values and among those values free will has pride of place?"

You nod carefully.

"How much control do you have over this Labyrinth, this Ancestral Prison?" She uses a translation of one of the most common scholarly terms for it.

"Less than any other part of Sanctuary. The people there they do not answer to me and I know them not. Something tells me I could make my way towards the heart of it, but it wouldn't be a picnic... that is it would not be easy," you add when her expression starts to look queasy.

"No no," she waves a hand, the one with the now unseen talisman. "I understand. The arts for binding SUTRAs they also come from thence, from tomes and tablets of power?"

Another nod, not you really want to know where she is taking this.

"I fear you may not like that you find at the heart of that place Your Majesty. The Yama Kings are for all their power rebellious functionaries, wretched in their disharmony. They war with each other that in the din and slaughter they might even for a moment forget the hollowness at the heart of their beings. I had not considered until this realm and its history gave me cause to do so what would happen if one of them were sealed away unable to act out their hungers upon the world. I think they would wither and die and yet their domain locked against other dark things would endure, a gear in the mechanisms of heaven, now a prison without a jailer. How you could claim that empty throne I do not know Ms Carpenter, but it is yours, all of this is yours. Behold most of the bars have rotted to dust scattered into the soil that it may birth new life."

"Here me well Empress of the Realm That is and Shall be, You are more than the Lords of Yomi Wan as a baleful star is more than a guttering bonfire," Usum proclaims, his voice like molten brass.. What does it say about you that you so readily believe a demon's word on this? Behind an expression frozen into polite shock you listen.

"It is not unheard of for the eldest of the Jade Court, the Arhat to achieve such poisonous 'advancement', though from the accounts and studies of the Wu Lung who came before me there is little to recommend such creatures compared to their dark kin. Fools, would-be Akuma, whisper words of false wisdom..." Wu Min trails off. "It would be best for you to speak to my teacher directly than for me to speculate. Regardless this advice I can give, I fear some shadow of your predecessor lingers in the heart of the Labyrinth. Do not seek to solve it until you know far more of yourself, travel first to less perilous places."

Speculation, the word echoes tantalizingly in the mind. Almost you offer her knowledge, riches, power if only she will share the rest of her thoughts, but you stop yourself. That would be the 'Demon Queen' thing to do wouldn't it? Plus she is not right, of that you are as sure as Usum. But there is something there, a thread to pull on. For his part Usum heard quite a bit about the Arhat, curses and words of yearning both from demons of Lanka and Kakuri, but little that is of use to you. They are seemingly elders but not leaders of the Wan Kuei, sages and philosophers, enlightened beings near to shedding their curse. For one of them to claim a throne of Yomi Wan... well you can see how that would ruffle some feathers.

"It is one thing to leave a seeker upon the path blindfolded that they not by their own fear or the treachery of others fall into a chasm, another thing entirely for a blind pilot to steer a ship in the midst of a storm. There's a lot of passengers behind me. If there is anything more you can tell me... please."

Lost 1 Willpower -> now at 7/9

Sometimes the simplest entreat cuts the deepest to those accustomed to deflecting subtle sophistries and perilous temptations.

"Bao Zhong," she sighs. "Master of the Hell of Never-Dying Sorrow. Certain scrolls which the Ancestors of the Jade Court have worked assiduously to see destroyed name him among the last of the Wan Xian at the turn of the age, he alone who did not ascend to Heaven but descended. If there is any truth to my speculation and if those texts are true and not the ravings of the mad and the desperate he might have more answers for you as to how you could become as you are."

"And those texts...?"

"My teacher's teacher Elder Mai possesses many such scrolls. My master once read the Descent of Bao Zhong, though she mentioned only the barest details of them to me. I suppose she never thought I would need to know more on such a grim subject." From her tone it is clear her master is beyond asking, another victim of the Red Court perhaps, or some other foe. If she read the book she has to understand how well you know the paths of Yomi Wan, Wu Men has to know you are able to find your way before the throne of any Yama King and yet she trusted you with the name.

"Thank you," you say simply.

She nods and returns her gaze to the bustling skylight of the city against the glare of the Ring.

What's next on the tour of Sanctuary?

[] SUTRA investigations with Carlos.

[] Wu Min studying spirit bindings.

[] Weapons inspection with Harry.

[] Split up, delegate, what is what you have all these people working for you right?
-[] Write in how


OOC: New Research Option Unlocked: Descend into Hell... or you can contend yourself with the scrolls I guess.
 
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Rolls
Starting off: Molly vs Wu Mei (You win because it's a Key ability)
Putting the pieces together... botch... *re-roll from talisman activated* Some success
Noticing the Talisman, no awarredness, but a lot of reductions in DC
Wu Mei to see if you bite vs Molly to talk around her (more efficient than straight willpower in this case; again you win barely because of key ability)
What does Usum know... not that much alas, demon gossip
Closing the deal +1 willpower barely gets you to the last threshold so she tells you everything she knows
 
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