- Location
- washington
Meh no one's ever been harmed by a little acid burn!
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
Not sure if that's really viable for Molly's metaphysical makeup, as a nascent world titan
We really should, especially if we plan to make use of any poisons and such. It opens a lot of options.
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- washington
I mean I'm fairly sure it was an option earlier on. It's weird to be sure it's definitely something we can purchase though.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
I mean there is nothing stopping a whale from worshipping a krill. It just seems weird.
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- washington
I mean even if we ascend to that beyond essence 5 state I'm fairly sure God will have advantages against us.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
If we're going by 2e logic I think E9 is Primordial class for a Solar?
And what a glorious day it will be!
And now he's going to roll for seduction.
Hey! They told him it would make him immortal and they didn't lie, for what would you call being remembered to this day for this but immortality?
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- washington
Fuck if I know we aren't even supposed to naturally be able to get past 5 though.
... Molly's True Faith is going to be an arcane equivalent of "I hope sempai will notice me", isn't it?
- Location
- Germany
On a pretty fundamental level, we don't need to ask God for help in altering reality, we are doing it as we exist.
So I think true Faith is kinda out for us, even as a positive relationship is very much an option.
So I think true Faith is kinda out for us, even as a positive relationship is very much an option.
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- washington
I mean faith was never about asking for help for the carpenters I don't think.
Modus_Tollens
SCREAMING AT THE APOCALYPSE
- Location
- ALSO SCREAMING.
If so, we should roll seduction straight fucking back. My position has not changed one iota from what it was months earlier in this thread:And now he's going to roll for seduction.
"We have to date the skull. We have to date the skull."
He is adorable, endearing, 90% wit and snark by volume, is about as close to Harry as Molly is realistically ever going to get, and just shy of being a world ending threat himself which... lets be honest... is nothing but a plus considering what Molly is. A birthday just has to tick past first.
[X] Plan hitting the books
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Bob is true to form and making the sorts of insights that make him so powerful and dangerous.
The implication of his analogy is interesting, especially when you consider that the legacy of the Yozi is a nature entirely capable of powering all it's own energy needs.
Maybe the eventual barrier is less a matter of the world not being able to run Molly's full power and more a matter of finally getting a decent drink.
Meat is murder can apply to a lot of things I suppose, although I think a lot of people would get worried if Molly started trying to eat multiple Excaliburs worth of magic energy.
The implication of his analogy is interesting, especially when you consider that the legacy of the Yozi is a nature entirely capable of powering all it's own energy needs.
Maybe the eventual barrier is less a matter of the world not being able to run Molly's full power and more a matter of finally getting a decent drink.
Meat is murder can apply to a lot of things I suppose, although I think a lot of people would get worried if Molly started trying to eat multiple Excaliburs worth of magic energy.
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- Location
- Germany
16 Votes for Read Accords - Provisions
12 votes for Ask Bob - Winter Strategy
12 votes for Ask Bob - Mab's History
4 votes for Ask Bob - Powers of Winter
2 votes for Ask Bob - Enemies of Winter
Pretty clear by now @DragonParadox though so badly formatted that I might have missed something.
12 votes for Ask Bob - Winter Strategy
12 votes for Ask Bob - Mab's History
4 votes for Ask Bob - Powers of Winter
2 votes for Ask Bob - Enemies of Winter
Pretty clear by now @DragonParadox though so badly formatted that I might have missed something.
Well, if they're worried the energy field is bigger than our head, there is an easy solution: Get at least enough of a world body for it not to be the case anymore.
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- washington
Gotta create custom stuff for that sounds fun though.
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- washington
I'm kinda getting the feeling people want to kill her for more petty reasons than to actually make things better most of the time. Cause the ideas played out are mostly killing her and essentially changing nothing.
There are plenty of beings we should focus on killing before Mab for so many more worthwhile reasons.
There are plenty of beings we should focus on killing before Mab for so many more worthwhile reasons.
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I see, thanks.
Unfortunately the next update will be tomorrow, I have a bit of a headache right now, really not able to write, at least not properly.
Catching up.
At least in Dresdenverse lore so far; angels dont appear to name themselves, or allow themselves to be identified as such otherwise. Everytime an angel shows up to a mortal in a form that makes them identifiable as one, it tends to imply
Dresden's met at least three as of Skin Games; Uriel is the only one thats named, and he only showed up as himself after Mabidentified outed him. When he intervened in Small Favor, Dresden never even knew he was there.
The other two he only noticed because he was dead at the time.
Still, personal knowledge of a 17 year old is plausibly limited, especially with her Occult 5 being a little out of date.
And Usum has no applicable knowledge of the angelic host(s) in this AU to cover for the gaps in her knowledge.
===
2)Counterpoint:
The events of last Halloween, with the failure of power and advanced technology in the city of Chicago, the roaming undead, the multiple firefights in the street, and the revenant TRex. Molly would have been witness to the power failures and tech issues as a Chicago resident, and Bob presumably told her about the rest when he talked about the zombie T-rex.
Someone trying to openly assassinate Mab is likely to have as much regard for the Masquerade as the Kemmlerites did in Dead Beat. Doesnt necessarily mean they'll succeed, but the splash radius will be...dire.
I'd be entirely happy for a ruling that nothing is gonna happen.
Because thats been my private worry ever since she scheduled a meeting in Chicago for Halloween, that something or someone is going to make a swing at this time.
===
3)Is that how you're ruling it?
Because I've been thinking of this as a formal agreement between an Infernal Exalt and an LEO who is local contact of the Special Collections Division of the Library of Congress.
If you're ruling it as just an agreement between two mortals, then the consequences are...not nil, but localized.
Probably.
===
4)Karin Murphy should/does know how a lot of supernatural custom and promises work.
If not from Dresden, from Kincaid, who she was explicitly fucking for a while.
She was there for Lord Raith's overthrow two years ago.
She was/is sorta-seeing the Archive's bodyguard Kincaid, and went to Hawaii with him last Halloween.
She helped save Georgia and Billy's wedding from Jenny Greenteeth kidnapping Georgia in order to take her place during the vows and magically bind Billy via his wedding oaths(Something Borrowed short story, Spring/Summer 2006).
She was witness to Dresden transferring Lily's debt to Charity when they went to rescue Molly in Proven Guilty.
And iirc, she knew enough about the Accords to get Big Brother Gruff to walk away in Small Favor.
===
When the QM rules that stuff works one way, the argument stops.
But they hadnt made that ruling at the time.
2)Well, you're wrong. I was not angry.
Its not the first argument here that I've lost an argument, or a vote, and if I got angry when I lost arguments or votes I'd give myself stress ulcers. I regularly disagree with other people here. Thats kinda part and parcel of questing.
Dunno why this one is the one that gives you that impression to be honest.
And a bunch of others, apparently, judging from the upvotes.
===
Mac looks 50ish to the mortal eye, and Chicago is less than two hundred years old.
He's not been here centuries.
Even decades would be questionable at this point, because it would be obvious to the clientele.
And, more of an issue, mortal authorities.
2) Its not just about your being an active threat, its about your potential enemies, and people who might want to take advantage of you and your presence. If a mafioso bigwig was in retirement on your beat, they dont need to be in the biz to be trouble.
Or, to use an IC example?
When the Archive comes to town, she never starts shit, but there has always been shit when she's around, either from people trying to stop her doing her job(Death Masks, Small Favor), or those trying to kidnap her for their own purposes(Small Favor).
Furthermore, Molly doesnt actually know anything about Mac besides whats she has seen/deduced.
Thats my two cents.
==
None of the senior Fae are, as Eldest Gruff and the doughnut on Demonreach will tell you.
Magical backlash, like I've said previously, isnt a problem for Exalts, but it is not the only consequence.
Reputational and social damage are both a thing, and Infernals dont start out with all that much social capital to spare in the first place. Its difficult enough to get people to make deals, and its probably harder if people dont think you'll be bound by them.
The QM appears to be ruling that this is a mundane, person to person promise.
As opposed to the supernatural Power commitment I thought it was supposed to be.
If thats the standard applied here, any damage .
1)Not a woman? Her choice of designer shoes says otherwise.
2)Harry was canonically checking Mab's backside out after their first meeting.
After she'd told him that she now owned his debts. And he still regularly turns conversations with her into verbal combat.
The man might tell Molly to treat Mab one way in good faith, but he doesnt exactly follow his own advice
3)Some IC confirmation that Mac might be an ex-angel, but he does see farther than most.
Lol no outside food though.
4)Harry has a copy of the Accords as well. I think all wizards do.
Wonder why she hasnt read that.
Or even for lesser sorcerers; In Storm Front, Victor Sells was flooding the streets of Chicago with industrial quantities of Three Eye potion and selling it at a low enough price to undercut routine street drugs.
I wouldnt be surprised if there are wizard/linear sorcerer-exclusive Merits that apply to precisely this sort of situation either; Merlin allegedly built Demonreach, and thats a construct that would be impressive by Exalted 2E Solar Craft rules.
And the mechanics in this AU seem workable.
-Known Ritual: -1DC
-Mentat Stone(1 dot Enchantment): Either +2 dice or -1DC
-Lab location/high quality equipment: ??? Bonus
-Lab assistant: ??? Depends
Also, you cant botch if you spend WP for an autosux.
You can fail, but not botch, and I assume every alchemist spends WP as a matter of course.
Alchemy requires preptime, infrastructure and reagents per recipe, but if it wasnt predictable, it wouldnt be a major numina.
It might just be easier for an older, experienced wizard to use something along the lines of Bio-Control or Chronomancy to improve their ability to stay awake without fatigue penalties, instead of making mafuccino.
You have my vote.
Like all true immortals, killing her requires the date of Halloween, or that she be in the vicinity of the Stone Table, or possibly a superweapon or a specific nemesis(in her case Titania), and even the superweapon isnt guaranteed to prevent her coming back.
Unless the QM says otherwise, I suspect that the mechanics might be similar to the mechanics protecting Sol Invictus in Ex2.
Might.
2)Winter and Summer both linked to and apparently help regulate the world's climate systems.
We see Summer has a strong role in the genesis and regulation of epidemics and new diseases as well.
We are well off from knowing everything they are involved in.
3)Mother Summer's definition of alright and really bad might differ just a touch from our own.
Do recall what the contents of the jars on her shelf are.
3)Harry could tell you that killing Mab is a horrible idea.
He saw the Courts at war in Summer Knight with the Sight. He saw the Stone Table.
He knows that Maeve is the next in line, and he has a good idea of what her character is like.
Then there's Word of Jim circa 2009, which was after the publication of Small Favor:
TLDR
Killing Mab would do Very Bad Things to the world.
Butcher retains the right to change that as his worldbuilding evolves.
For example, this was about ten years before the publication of Peace Talks/Battlegrounds, when Ethniu popped up with the Eye of Balor. But as far as I know, the general thrust hasnt changed.
1)Wars no. Inflection points, and the accompanying disruption? Yes.
At least in Dresdenverse lore so far; angels dont appear to name themselves, or allow themselves to be identified as such otherwise. Everytime an angel shows up to a mortal in a form that makes them identifiable as one, it tends to imply
Dresden's met at least three as of Skin Games; Uriel is the only one thats named, and he only showed up as himself after Mab
The other two he only noticed because he was dead at the time.
Still, personal knowledge of a 17 year old is plausibly limited, especially with her Occult 5 being a little out of date.
And Usum has no applicable knowledge of the angelic host(s) in this AU to cover for the gaps in her knowledge.
===
2)Counterpoint:
The events of last Halloween, with the failure of power and advanced technology in the city of Chicago, the roaming undead, the multiple firefights in the street, and the revenant TRex. Molly would have been witness to the power failures and tech issues as a Chicago resident, and Bob presumably told her about the rest when he talked about the zombie T-rex.
Someone trying to openly assassinate Mab is likely to have as much regard for the Masquerade as the Kemmlerites did in Dead Beat. Doesnt necessarily mean they'll succeed, but the splash radius will be...dire.
I'd be entirely happy for a ruling that nothing is gonna happen.
Because thats been my private worry ever since she scheduled a meeting in Chicago for Halloween, that something or someone is going to make a swing at this time.
===
3)Is that how you're ruling it?
Because I've been thinking of this as a formal agreement between an Infernal Exalt and an LEO who is local contact of the Special Collections Division of the Library of Congress.
If you're ruling it as just an agreement between two mortals, then the consequences are...not nil, but localized.
Probably.
===
4)Karin Murphy should/does know how a lot of supernatural custom and promises work.
If not from Dresden, from Kincaid, who she was explicitly fucking for a while.
She was there for Lord Raith's overthrow two years ago.
She was/is sorta-seeing the Archive's bodyguard Kincaid, and went to Hawaii with him last Halloween.
She helped save Georgia and Billy's wedding from Jenny Greenteeth kidnapping Georgia in order to take her place during the vows and magically bind Billy via his wedding oaths(Something Borrowed short story, Spring/Summer 2006).
She was witness to Dresden transferring Lily's debt to Charity when they went to rescue Molly in Proven Guilty.
And iirc, she knew enough about the Accords to get Big Brother Gruff to walk away in Small Favor.
===
1)Its not the first time I've pointed out to the QM that something appears to be off to me; last time I recall off the top of my head was when we were discussing what combat threat rating to assign White Court elders, how much was age and how much heredity, and who qualified as such.
When the QM rules that stuff works one way, the argument stops.
But they hadnt made that ruling at the time.
2)Well, you're wrong. I was not angry.
Its not the first argument here that I've lost an argument, or a vote, and if I got angry when I lost arguments or votes I'd give myself stress ulcers. I regularly disagree with other people here. Thats kinda part and parcel of questing.
Dunno why this one is the one that gives you that impression to be honest.
And a bunch of others, apparently, judging from the upvotes.
===
1)The current version of the Unseelie Accords is twelve to fourteen years old, after the Milwaukee Incursion in either 1992 or 1994.
Mac looks 50ish to the mortal eye, and Chicago is less than two hundred years old.
He's not been here centuries.
Even decades would be questionable at this point, because it would be obvious to the clientele.
And, more of an issue, mortal authorities.
2) Its not just about your being an active threat, its about your potential enemies, and people who might want to take advantage of you and your presence. If a mafioso bigwig was in retirement on your beat, they dont need to be in the biz to be trouble.
Or, to use an IC example?
When the Archive comes to town, she never starts shit, but there has always been shit when she's around, either from people trying to stop her doing her job(Death Masks, Small Favor), or those trying to kidnap her for their own purposes(Small Favor).
Furthermore, Molly doesnt actually know anything about Mac besides whats she has seen/deduced.
Thats my two cents.
==
Mab is no more a paperclip maximizer than we are.
None of the senior Fae are, as Eldest Gruff and the doughnut on Demonreach will tell you.
Magical backlash, like I've said previously, isnt a problem for Exalts, but it is not the only consequence.
Reputational and social damage are both a thing, and Infernals dont start out with all that much social capital to spare in the first place. Its difficult enough to get people to make deals, and its probably harder if people dont think you'll be bound by them.
The QM appears to be ruling that this is a mundane, person to person promise.
As opposed to the supernatural Power commitment I thought it was supposed to be.
If thats the standard applied here, any damage .
COMMENTARY
1)Not a woman? Her choice of designer shoes says otherwise.
2)Harry was canonically checking Mab's backside out after their first meeting.
After she'd told him that she now owned his debts. And he still regularly turns conversations with her into verbal combat.
The man might tell Molly to treat Mab one way in good faith, but he doesnt exactly follow his own advice
3)Some IC confirmation that Mac might be an ex-angel, but he does see farther than most.
Lol no outside food though.
4)Harry has a copy of the Accords as well. I think all wizards do.
Wonder why she hasnt read that.
The fluff suggests its not all that difficult for Dresdenverse wizards.
Or even for lesser sorcerers; In Storm Front, Victor Sells was flooding the streets of Chicago with industrial quantities of Three Eye potion and selling it at a low enough price to undercut routine street drugs.
I wouldnt be surprised if there are wizard/linear sorcerer-exclusive Merits that apply to precisely this sort of situation either; Merlin allegedly built Demonreach, and thats a construct that would be impressive by Exalted 2E Solar Craft rules.
And the mechanics in this AU seem workable.
-Known Ritual: -1DC
-Mentat Stone(1 dot Enchantment): Either +2 dice or -1DC
-Lab location/high quality equipment: ??? Bonus
-Lab assistant: ??? Depends
Also, you cant botch if you spend WP for an autosux.
You can fail, but not botch, and I assume every alchemist spends WP as a matter of course.
Alchemy requires preptime, infrastructure and reagents per recipe, but if it wasnt predictable, it wouldnt be a major numina.
It might just be easier for an older, experienced wizard to use something along the lines of Bio-Control or Chronomancy to improve their ability to stay awake without fatigue penalties, instead of making mafuccino.
I think I agree with this.
You have my vote.
1)Mab's a true immortal.
Like all true immortals, killing her requires the date of Halloween, or that she be in the vicinity of the Stone Table, or possibly a superweapon or a specific nemesis(in her case Titania), and even the superweapon isnt guaranteed to prevent her coming back.
Unless the QM says otherwise, I suspect that the mechanics might be similar to the mechanics protecting Sol Invictus in Ex2.
Might.
2)Winter and Summer both linked to and apparently help regulate the world's climate systems.
We see Summer has a strong role in the genesis and regulation of epidemics and new diseases as well.
We are well off from knowing everything they are involved in.
3)Mother Summer's definition of alright and really bad might differ just a touch from our own.
Do recall what the contents of the jars on her shelf are.
3)Harry could tell you that killing Mab is a horrible idea.
He saw the Courts at war in Summer Knight with the Sight. He saw the Stone Table.
He knows that Maeve is the next in line, and he has a good idea of what her character is like.
Then there's Word of Jim circa 2009, which was after the publication of Small Favor:
Quote from: Persephone on February 24, 2009, 01:55:46 AM
Woot.I love it when you guys work things out!
Oh, and Mab's not using a mouthpiece because she's incapable of speech. She could talk all she wanted–as long as she didn't mind killing the people she was trying to communicate with. Suffice to say that the whole "words can never hurt me" thing just doesn't apply to angry Faerie Queens.
Jim
I love it when you guys work things out!Quote from: Gman on February 25, 2009, 05:20:48 AM
Nah, they wouldn't even come close. I mean… it's like comparing apples and… and hand grenades.
Just about the best they could hope to accomplish would be to force Mab to make an effort. Though when Mab came for them, it wouldn't be a kick-down-the-door-and-kick-ass kind of encounter. It would be a One-two-three-four-five-Hey-weren't-there-SIX-of-us-here-a-second-ago? situation.
I mean, sure, the Erlking is a peer of Mab's–but there's kind of a reason that it's /Mab/ who rules the Worst of the Worst in Faerie, and not the Erlking.
All of which doesn't even TOUCH on the way power is actually balanced in Faerie, because neither Mab nor the Erlking would attempt such a thing, or /consider/ attempting such a thing. It would upset the natural order. Conflicts between most of the Fae powers are very subtle, and generally involve proxies, pride, sex or all of the above.
Harry (or Molly or Murphy or Butters or any other mortal) has more potential to harm Mab than that crew. Not much more likelihood of victory, true, but it isn't /zero/, either.
Jim
Quote from: Warden John Marcone on March 04, 2009, 05:48:02 PM
Hmmm. In terms of pure, raw power, several who have appeared or been mentioned in the books could pull it off, though neither side would really "win" as much as "continue to exist." Plus, the sudden absence of Mab would do freaking HIDEOUS things to the earth. But here's who has the necessary horsepower do it:
o Titania–though it would be a coin toss. Almost literally.
o The Mothers (who wouldn't)
o The White Council. As in, ALL the White Council. Every wizard on the planet. And they'd need her Name.
o Drakul.
o Ferrovax.
o The Red Court–again, ALL the Red Court, though their odds wouldn't be good.
o The entire White Court–very, very long odds on that, but if they actually pulled it off, whoever took Mab would effectively control her power.
o Cowl (if the Darkhallow had succeeded).
o A union of the old Elders of the Black Court. They were freaking scary until the Whites arranged to have them hounded down by mortals.
All of that, of course, assumes that Mab is standing there alone, outside of Faerie, and not commanding an entire nation, literally millions and millions and millions of nightmarish creatures of every description. Which she does.
There's a REASON that when Mab said, "Sign these Accords and abide by them," people listened.
Killing Mab would do Very Bad Things to the world.
Butcher retains the right to change that as his worldbuilding evolves.
For example, this was about ten years before the publication of Peace Talks/Battlegrounds, when Ethniu popped up with the Eye of Balor. But as far as I know, the general thrust hasnt changed.
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- washington
I mean we've got word the eye of balor can do some serious damage its clearly more metaphysical than biggatons. I'm still wrapping my head around the way back argument of the eye of balor being unimpressive since it isn't that impressive in biggatons like that means absolutely anything when we're talking about magic bullshit.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
I can't comment on the rest, but get the general impression that Victor Sells was supremely unconcerned about the possible bad side effects that might happen to his clients if he botched an alchemy roll.
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- washington
thats fair the dude was insane though its not like he was overall that big a deal an actual wizard whose talent gears towards alchemic works could likely do better. Especially a wizard over a century whose talent is geared in that direction. Though no idea if safe would come into it most likely its possible though.
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