Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

@firefrog600
The new Winter Queen might eventually end up like the old one, but we do know that people can stay themselves against the pressure of a Mantle for years or more.

I would even bet that False Springs Becon could be used to keep the Mantle's influence at bay, if we had a mantlebearer who starts out fresh and would be willing to stay herself.

Making sure that a Winter Queen who is willing to reign in or destroy things like Fetches and other human-predators comes into power and stays that way is possible, if difficult.

Of course that's only if one doesn't prefer to destroy Winter wholesale.
 
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[X] Question Bob about...
-[X] The enemies of Winter
-[X] Mab's history

[X] Read the Accords
-[X] Provisions, what is this pact Mab put her power on the line for
 
@firefrog600
The new Winter Queen might eventually end up like the old one, but we do know that people can stay themselves against the pressure of a Mantle for years or more.

I would even bet that False Springs Becon could be used to keep the Mantle's influence at bay, if we had a mantlebearer who starts out fresh and would be willing to stay herself.

Making sure that a Winter Queen who is willing to reign in or destroy things like Fetches and other human-predators comes into power and stays that way is possible, if difficult.

Of course that's only if one doesn't prefer to destroy Winter wholesale.
For the mantle bearer thing taking time yeah I said that already I said it may even take two decades or more to do something like that to a person. The charm stuff though thats a perfectly good point though definitely requires workshopping both in and out of character and greater knowledge of the world. so long term problem. For destroying the winter court well we definitely can't replace it ourselves not even getting into the logistics we'd have to you know condemn large portions of our population to an eternal war and I'm not sure in character molly would be comfortable with that or fuck if I would be comfortable with that. Mind you if we can permanently solve the outsider problem and thats a big IF I mean sure cool go on genocide campaign :)

Also depends on what you mean by destroying winter wholesale the whose in this situation may be replaceable no idea how replaceable destroying entire mantles would be like even the stuff that made the courts is technically way way older than the winter court itself. Like you may be saying something like I dunno destroying the concept of elements or whatever the triple goddess represents. Who fucking knows what that would mean for the world. Also probably depends on the how of doing it lol.

We know word of jim that mab predecessor and whatever else did something similar to the darkhallow except bigger when the courts were made.
 
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By the way ngl @Artemis1992 when I saw my name in a mentioned by you I was genuinely scared I thought I did something wrong simply cause my name was in a mentioned.

Also you know you technically said by mentioning ending the winter court we should kill santa. :p
 
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Quitter talk, we are Exalted, we can absolutely change the system.

Winter wasn't the first to defend the gates, it won't be the last.

You are concentrating too much on just our hell, there are other ways we can change things, allies we can make to help, changes we can make to winter itself.
no I mean personally us has nothing available that would let us take winters place. Well without going beyond the standard exalted game and going full tiger whatchamajig. Also even if we did why the hell would you want to take winters place? Also I meant us personally us like us like specifically us we can change shit we need others though and nothing we have personally or will have without custom creating will allow us to change the system itself. We can change things of course heck there might be things that can replace winter at the gates. But, we personally don't have anything that would without fully transcending the regular system that would change what guards the gates. We could destroy the system and doom everyone, we could change whose part of the system in names, we could probably even mess with the system. But, replacing it not so much. Not without dp introducing custom stuff of course.

Never said we can't make things better by the way we totally can. Just like we don't have any actual powers that would let us destroy then insert ourselves in winters place.
 
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Let's say we didn't kill Mab. Instead we threw her into our maggot pit and enslaved her?
 
I dunno kek though depends if it works I'm unsure why people go straight to murder really myself. Though I'm unsure molly is comfortable with enslaving anything? yet. gotta get that moral degradation going first.
I was about to bring up that we would have been willing to enslave the Will, but that doesn't really work. It didn't have the free will to be able to choose to be enslaved by us. Infernal enslavement charms generally are fairly ineffective on anything that will destroy itself rather than bow.
Lost 3 Essence -> Now at 8/12 (Keeping the buffs up)

I am trying to figure out why we need 3 essence. ATB is scene long buff and we don't need super perception anymore anyway. Don't see why we need an Occult exalancy either.
 
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I was about to bring up that we would have been willing to enslave the Will, but that doesn't really work. It didn't have the free will to be able to choose to be enslaved by us. Infernal enslavement charms generally are fairly ineffective on anything that will destroy itself rather than bow.


I am trying to figure out why we need 3 essence. ATB is scene long buff and we don't need super perception anymore anyway. Don't see why we need an Occult exalancy either.

Oops, it should be 2 Essence, the occult excellenc is in case Mac does something magical or otherwise interesting in response to realizing Molly knows
 
On to other stuff then. "So if I we do meet here can I help in the kitchen?"

Again he points at a plaque, this one far shorter but no less definitive. No outside food.
This makes me really sad 😭. Stupid neutral ground actually being neutral so we can't even provide Exalted hospitality or really stack the deck in our favor at all. This isn't even a place of desolation.
 
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This makes me really sad 😭. Stupid neutral ground actually being neutral so we can't even provide Exalted hospitality or really stack the deck in our favor at all. This isn't even a place of desolation.

You could invite Mab to the nearest landfill/industrial ruin/toxic waste dump, Molly is the host, she does not have to use Mac and Mab did not demand neutral ground. Presumably she is feeling pretty secure.
 
Well it's a little far and technically not in Chicago but I can't exactly let this chance go. It's thematically appropriate and tactically advantageous even! :V

I vote we meet with her at the Braidwood Generating Station.
Uhhh… the site says it's still currently in use. I don't think a still active and operational power plant of any type counts as a "place of desolation," especially when it's still supplying a good chunk of the city's power. Not unless it's cursed by something nasty at least, like one of the Infernal charms that does exactly that, which we don't have.
 
Uhhh… the site says it's still currently in use. I don't think a still active and operational power plant of any type counts as a "place of desolation," especially when it's still supplying a good chunk of the city's power. Not unless it's cursed by something nasty at least, like one of the Infernal charms that does exactly that, which we don't have.
I'd say some of the nuclear power plants that actively poison the people who live near them, who can't afford to move, and have to stay probably counts. No idea if this is one of those just adding my two cents.
 
Uhhh… the site says it's still currently in use. I don't think a still active and operational power plant of any type counts as a "place of desolation," especially when it's still supplying a good chunk of the city's power. Not unless it's cursed by something nasty at least, like one of the Infernal charms that does exactly that, which we don't have.

Depends on how good it is at keeping the radiation in. Most modern nuclear power plants are pretty good... but the tanks with the spent fuel rods still count as a small place of desolation.
 
I'd say some of the nuclear power plants that actively poison the people who live near them, who can't afford to move, and have to stay probably counts. No idea if this is one of those just adding my two cents.

Nuclear plants are one of the safest generators you can be close to. Three miles island didn't actually do any real radiation damages to the surroundings nor did it even increase the rate of cancer around what happened, here's a video about it. If a *nuclear catastrophe* has so little side effects, you can absolutely bet that a working one is not the monster some lover of petroleum tries to paint them as.

If you want a place of desolation, go to a coal generator, these things are absolutely nasty and do have dangerous side effects even when working properly.
 
For the record on killing Mab, independent of how practical or particularly helpful that idea is, right now her replacement is Maeve.

Not only is she a nemesis slave right now, even cleansed she's worse than Mab is every metric. She'd revel in abusing Mab's power while doing the minimum to keep things going until the mantle evened her out a few centuries from now.

Assassinating two queens without the implicit approval Harry had is a very bad idea. We'd basically end up unable to work with any major power on earth at minimum, and they'd definitely come for us.

That sort of thing isn't something you just shrug off with "we're an exalt lol". Exalts die, especially when they get arrogant and ignore the possibility that other people can do stuff too.
 
As Mab is the one who orchestrated Molly's kidnapping and captivity at Arctic Tor by the Fetches to advance some plan of hers, we need to be wary here.

I think that we really want to find a focus to ask the question 'Why was I kidnapped?' before going into this meeting if we possibly can.

And most of the factions don't care about each other. Michael killed a capital D Dragon and no one gave a damn. The White Court orchestrated the near extermination of the Black Court and no one else cared. Orchestrating regime change in Winter would just buy us the right to be considered for the big boys and girls' table.
 
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I'd say some of the nuclear power plants that actively poison the people who live near them, who can't afford to move, and have to stay probably counts. No idea if this is one of those just adding my two cents.
You'd be far better served looking at coal power plants for those.
I think that we really want to find a focus to ask the question 'Why was I kidnapped?' before going into this meeting if we possibly can.
Oh, that's a good idea.
 
People are dunking on firefrog600, but I feel sensationalist reporters are more to blame because math does not get clicks, articles about "nuclear leaks" with no sense of scale get clicks.🤐 Don't be too hard on the guy repeating what he heard in the supposedly respectable news. (Be hard on journalists instead.)

Braidwood, the nuclear power plant mentioned above, had a "leak" in 1998. I'm going to go on a little tangent about this with some more concrete numbers because it's one of my pet topics where "leak" is surprisingly far from "poisoning" once you look at the specific amounts involved. Nuclear power in America is so very strictly regulated, it's almost certainly killing more people for lack of nuclear by making them live around as-yet-unreplaced fossil fuel power plants.

The Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) of America has a very low bar for what constitutes a leak, TLDR: any measurable release of radioactive material that makes contact with outside land in an unplanned way. There is no exception for minuscule quantities or trivial concentrations.
In 1998, the Braidwood nuclear power plant leaked tritium-contaminated water measured to be 247 nano-curies per liter at its highest concentration. Written out, that's 0.000000247 curies per liter.
To give those numbers some context: 1 curie is the amount of radiation given off by 1 gram of radium. Pierre Curie taped a gram of radium to his arm during research, developed a bloody rash and radiation burn after one day, but survived after removing the radium sample.

(Aside: I will pre-emptively anti-suggest asking the GM exactly how many curies or density constitute a place of desolation. :p )

Going down from that highest concentration, some of the water was less radioactive to begin with, much of it was collected by digging up the leak area and disposing of the soil as radioactive waste just in case, and some more of it diluted on contact with regular water in the ground. According to a NRC report, after cleanup efforts the remaining radioactivity in a monitoring well was down to 1.7 nano-curies per liter, less than 1% of the above already-tiny value. This was onsite at the nuclear power plant; any contamination to groundwater of people living nearby would have diluted even further than that.

The practical effect of this for a human:
Suppose you were to drink exclusively from the monitoring well all your life, and have about 5 liters of that water in your body at any given time. Added up over the course of 100 years, this theoretically inflicts about 1/3000th of the radiation damage that Pierre got in his test.

And it would be even less harmful because spreading it out gives your body time to repair the damage. (It's like how 10000 raindrops over the course of a rainy season are less harmful than a 10kg object being dropped on your head in one go.) And then even less than that again because tritium has a half-life of only twelve and a half years, so it can't add up for more than twenty-five.

That's the level of safety American nuclear power plants usually operate at: even when there's an accidental leak, drinking the nano-contaminated water remaining on a leak site is still orders of magnitude away from being dangerous. Merely living nearby is not going to get you poisoned.
 
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As Mab is the one who orchestrated Molly's kidnapping and captivity at Arctic Tor by the Fetches to advance some plan of hers, we need to be wary here.

I think that we really want to find a focus to ask the question 'Why was I kidnapped?' before going into this meeting if we possibly can.

And most of the factions don't care about each other. Michael killed a capital D Dragon and no one gave a damn. The White Court orchestrated the near extermination of the Black Court and no one else cared. Orchestrating regime change in Winter would just buy us the right to be considered for the big boys and girls' table.
That Dragon wasn't on duty any more and a knight of the cross did the deed. Outside of the Denarians no one really picks a fight with them on purpose because Uriel is their complaints department.

The white court's operation wasn't obvious when it was being executed, because the whole point was to off them without getting caught and wiped out in retaliation.

We also don't know what the politics around that looked like at the time, though we can reasonably guess that most people hated the black court because they were really powerful assholes who lived in the same proverbial building as everyone else.

The winter court, while also full of powerful assholes, lives in its own building and has a job everyone who knows about it is invested in seeing them continue.

They were also smart enough to embed themselves at the heart of as much international politics as they could and get people invested in good relations with them.

The situations aren't really comparable.
 
Votes are still pretty divided. I'm thinking of doing an interlude, maybe a Bob one.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on May 3, 2023 at 8:23 AM, finished with 76 posts and 14 votes.

  • [X] Read the Accords
    -[X] Provisions, what is this pact Mab put her power on the line for
    [X] Plan hitting the books
    -[X] Question Bob about...
    --[X] The strategies of Winter
    --[X] Mab's history
    -[X] Read the Accords
    --[X] Provisions, what is this pact Mab put her power on the line for
    ---[X] Preload Occult excellency for better comprehension
    -[X] Ask Lydia to look through her library for books speaking of Mab or otherwise connected to her to use as crown foci. The questions to be asked, from the most important to the least important
    [X] Question Bob about...
    -[X] The powers of Winter
    -[X] The strategies of Winter
    [X] Question Bob about...
    -[X] The strategies of Winter
    -[X] Mab's history
    [X] Question Bob about...
    -[X] Mab's history
    [X] Question Bob about...
    -[X] The powers of Winter
    -[X] The enemies of Winter
    [X] Dad has to know something about Winter right? Ask him about how to dealing with them
    [X] Question Bob about...
    -[X] The enemies of Winter
    -[X] Mab's history
 
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