Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Arc 6 Post 57: Between the Lines
Between the Lines

25th of October 2006 A.D.

Even before you get the chance to ask Bob about Queen Mab the list of reasons to dislike her grows a little longer. Who insists on writing things on parchment these days? Does she have a grudge against cows as well as your free time, trying to decipher all this flowery verbiage? It's not like this stuff is old either, the current version of the Unseelie Accords is only as old as the Milwaukee Incursion, which is to say less than twelve years old, having been signed on the Winter Solstice when the power of Winter was strongest. That you soon learn is a big hint as to its purpose. Due to the power of oaths over most of those who deal in magic, even such alien and uncanny beings as the vampires of the Black Court, the various factions have a... trust in the letter of their agreements that would make mortal diplomats whistle in envy, but up until relatively recently there had been no need to create a unitary framework for interacting with each other under the veil of secrecy. There are no mortal signatories of the Accords, that much you know form glancing down at the list and yet the presence of mortal humanity looms over every word here written as the moon does above the ebb and flow of the tides.

The first chapter deals with the sacrosanct nature of messengers and the precise conditions one must meet to serve as a messenger you suspect because everything else is pointless if the two sides cannot converse and coordinate. It also covers penalties for third parties meddling with messages, including fax, telephone, radio and computer networks... all still written out on the darn parchment. Crucially the guarantee for this is enforced by Winter itself, allowing the unseelie court to act directly at the command of a march-lord, the least of the lords of Winter to ensure that harm to a messenger is punished and the message reaches its intended destination in a timely manner.

The second chapter is all about places like Mac's Pub, the fines for impinging upon them, which range from weregild to the execution of the offending individual to loss of territory. You briefly wonder what Mac would even do with territory in faerie or villages filled with unfortunate vampire thralls, but that is not the important part here. Neutral places extend beyond their physical boundaries to a certain degree so you cannot just siege someone inside the pub say. An agreement to meet someone in such a place is also an agreement to allow them to leave in peace, with both those words described in painfully precise detail. The implication of course is that other meetings are not thus protected between signatories. There is also a clause about not attacking mortals within or around Accorded Neutral Ground in such a way as would compromise it, referring not just to physical space but their capacity to function within mortal society. It's a good thing Mac runs such a clean ship because anyone who tried to call the food inspectors on him would get smote, you think amused.

Alas the smile does not last long as you get to the list of reasons someone might be forced to leave neutral ground without the lingering protection to 'go in peace'. These include insults to the legitimacy of the opposing power, showing up with property you stole off the opposing side... including thralls, serfs and slaves because of course it does.

"There are many powers mistress which cannot bear such an insult and to whom the presentation of stolen treasure would be tantamount to a compulsion to attack," Usum points out, like you didn't know.

"Still horrid," you sigh.

The third chapter is interesting, but not that relevant to you, being that it is about the use and abuse of mortal authorities to get what you want out of a situation. The gist of it is you can but any such mortals are defined as the retainers of whichever co-signatory of the Accords is making use of them so long as they are acting knowingly. Here follow six pages describing various levels of awareness . Beneath a certain level which can be summarized as 'that's not Bigfoot it's just a bear' mortals are not treated as retainers but more as a kind of battlefield hazard, no different from getting someone to fall in a pit of spikes. There are of course contingencies about the mortals being aware of more than their handlers thought. The party in question must then clean up their mess to the satisfaction of a neutral emissary if they do not wish the higher standard to apply. Murphy has definitely been acting as Harry's agent for years and more recently yours. Is the Library of Congress a member? Ah not important now...

Finally the fourth chapter has to do with settling disputes by blood or by weregild, from battlefield truces to duels. These always involve a neutral mediator when the Accords are Invoked who ensures the sides are not cheating, whether it be using magic in a duel which has been decided as a test of will between the parties or giving up... lives that have already been hollowed out or souls which have already been dedicated to another power. God, no wonder the Church isn't party to the Accords.

Being as fair as you can the document does not force anyone to take part in the soul trade, it just provides rules for doing so, the same way it provides rules for trading labor, works of artistry and craft, precious metals and even cash, but still there are situations in which Winter might call upon other signatories to provide limited assistance in resolving a breach of the Accords, including a breach of weregild payment

Wait a second, you feel a sudden twisting in your stomach flip back t chapter two and the stolen property clause. 'That which was taken by stealth or by force, knowingly or unknowingly from the possession of one party onto another including objects great and small, mundane and magical, thralls, prisoners and slaves.' Under the articles of the Accords showing up with your soul counts as a provocation which would justify Queen Mab to demand you 'take it outside'.

A few seconds later you realize that she is almost guaranteed to not actually do it, after all if she wanted to kill you she'd have send assassins or a war party not gone through all the effort to meet with you, but it would be a hell of a threat to drop on someone out of the blue when they think they are under a more wide ranging protection. Now you will be ready for it.

"Say Usum is there a way I can go someplace without bringing my soul with me?" you ask jokingly to break the sudden tension.

"Will and soul and mind can stand divided that the Treasure of Ages is not carried forth and yet you should be present in the flesh in your meeting with the Queen of Winter."

What...? "No, seriously what?"


He explains, best as he is able his belief that you should be able to split off avatars, mortal aspects of yourself independent yet connected, self willed and Uncrowned yet which are in all other ways yourself.

"Can't work... she... I... whatever 'we', would be at too much of a disadvantage trying to negotiate without the powers of the Crown," you think at last.

"Splinters of the soul would also insulate you from dying a mortal death oh Queen Without Rival," the demon points out.

Add 'living sapient phylactery' to the list of evil superpowers I can develop I guess... After a moment you surprise yourself with a laugh. Better than the alternative and so are you.

Do you have any Crown Questions you wish to ask using the text of the Accords as focus

[] Yes
-[] Write in

[] No, you have all you wanted out of this


OOC: It is not specified in the text, but the rules about not bringing stolen treasures into a meeting was made to accommodate dragons for which that is goading them to an extent indistinguishable from magical compulsion.
 
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[X] Yes
-[X] What does the winter fae queen who was the primary part off designing these Accords know about the being known to them as Molly Carpenter, daughter of Michael Carpenter, the Knight of the Cross, including any and all powers of hers and any and all destinies or prophecies regarding her?
[X] Make an appointment with detective Murphy to go over the Accords together. She's free and encouraged to invite a trustworthy jurist. As an officer of the law she should actually learn the laws that govern the world she's trying to operate in.
-[X] Make her a copy of the Accords to use.

@DragonParadox is this a valid question? Essentially it's "what does Mab know about Molly, including Molly's exalted powers and any prophecies she might have been starring in?". Or is this too broad?

The "designers of these Accords " is deliberate, in case Mab is actually a front for, say, Mother Winter in this.
 
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[X] Yes
-[X] What do the designers of these Accords know about the being known to them as Molly Carpenter, daughter of Michael Carpenter, the Knight of the Cross, including any and all powers of hers and any and all destinies or prophecies regarding her?
[X] Make an appointment with detective Murphy to go over the Accords together. She's free and encouraged to invite a trustworthy jurist. As an officer of the law she should actually learn the laws that govern the world she's trying to operate in.
-[X] Make her a copy of the Accords to use.
 
[X] Yes
-[X] What do the designers of these Accords know about the being known to them as Molly Carpenter, daughter of Michael Carpenter, the Knight of the Cross, including any and all powers of hers and any and all destinies or prophecies regarding her?
[X] Make an appointment with detective Murphy to go over the Accords together. She's free and encouraged to invite a trustworthy jurist. As an officer of the law she should actually learn the laws that govern the world she's trying to operate in.
-[X] Make her a copy of the Accords to use.

@DragonParadox is this a valid question? Essentially it's "what does Mab know about Molly, including Molly's exalted powers and any prophecies she might have been starring in?". Or is this too broad?

The "designers of these Accords " is deliberate, in case Mab is actually a front for, say, Mother Winter in this.

Unfortunately that does not work, the accords were not designed by one person but agreed and refined upon my the major signatories so you would be asking a question about multiple subjects not united in any kind of common purpose or organization.
 
Unfortunately that does not work, the accords were not designed by one person but agreed and refined upon my the major signatories so you would be asking a question about multiple subjects not united in any kind of common purpose or organization.
OK... what about either "primary enforcers" (as I understand it, that's Winter) or "Winter Fae designers" (Mab and advisors)?
 
We'll have to be careful about the proliferation of the exact wording of the treaty considering that its very much a weapon against fey signatories, as much as it is a weapon and tool by them. Not that certain agents shouldn't have it but, yeah, be careful its held close to the vest.
 
We'll have to be careful about the proliferation of the exact wording of the treaty considering that its very much a weapon against fey signatories, as much as it is a weapon and tool by them. Not that certain agents shouldn't have it but, yeah, be careful its held close to the vest.
It's important to note that in many aspects Accords are a treaty. Those who are not signatories are not bound by them in quite the same way.
 
[X] Yes
-[X] What does the winter fae queen who was the primary part off designing these Accords know about the being known to them as Molly Carpenter, daughter of Michael Carpenter, the Knight of the Cross, including any and all powers of hers and any and all destinies or prophecies regarding her?
[X] Make an appointment with detective Murphy to go over the Accords together. She's free and encouraged to invite a trustworthy jurist. As an officer of the law she should actually learn the laws that govern the world she's trying to operate in.
-[X] Make her a copy of the Accords to use.

@DragonParadox is this a valid question? Essentially it's "what does Mab know about Molly, including Molly's exalted powers and any prophecies she might have been starring in?". Or is this too broad?

The "designers of these Accords " is deliberate, in case Mab is actually a front for, say, Mother Winter in this.
Might be a waste of the question to focus it on Molly and not her exaltation. Presumably picking it up derailed some things, and knowledge of Molly even including her powers isn't the same as the nature and history of the exaltation itself.

That's the stuff Mab is trying to bribe us with so presumably she knows something valuable, and knowing as much of it as possible in advance limits her buying power. Which is important since she forced us to roll against temptation to make a deal that would have screwed our allies with the same bait last time we talked to her.

We do need to mind our poker face though, if she notices how much we've learned she could try working other angles.

Really an even better question might be to work out what Mab's goals are for us. Devaluing her money before she can try spending it with us is good, but it's hard to plan without knowing what she's going for.

Less valuable in general, but more helpful for determining if she's just testing us and we're safe as long as we don't choke on our own foot or if we need to be ready to deflect an earnest attempt to push Molly on a path towards vassalage right out of the gate.
 
Mabs intentions towards us are definitly an important point.

I'd also like to know if she's behind the whole Fetch-storyline culminating in our abduction and rescue, or if that was just monsters being monsters with no input for her.
 
Mabs intentions towards us are definitly an important point.

I'd also like to know if she's behind the whole Fetch-storyline culminating in our abduction and rescue, or if that was just monsters being monsters with no input for her.
I'm pretty sure this was really just monsters being monsters, Mab doesn't normally micromanage the variety of monster species that have time control (she, like us, suffers from permanent AP hell and, unlike us, has a lot of permanent obligations all the time).

Unless there's a hint of that in the book where Molly is kidnapped, of course.
 
Might be a waste of the question to focus it on Molly and not her exaltation. Presumably picking it up derailed some things, and knowledge of Molly even including her powers isn't the same as the nature and history of the exaltation itself.

That's the stuff Mab is trying to bribe us with so presumably she knows something valuable, and knowing as much of it as possible in advance limits her buying power. Which is important since she forced us to roll against temptation to make a deal that would have screwed our allies with the same bait last time we talked to her.

We do need to mind our poker face though, if she notices how much we've learned she could try working other angles.

Really an even better question might be to work out what Mab's goals are for us. Devaluing her money before she can try spending it with us is good, but it's hard to plan without knowing what she's going for.

Less valuable in general, but more helpful for determining if she's just testing us and we're safe as long as we don't choke on our own foot or if we need to be ready to deflect an earnest attempt to push Molly on a path towards vassalage right out of the gate.
Please note that I included "including all her powers" into the question, so presumably at least something about Molly's exaltation would be in there. Probably not all, but then this is not the only question we are going to be asking - there was a reason I added asking Lydia to find books about Mab into my vote (not sure if that went through).

This question is a bit more broad, and I hope to fish something besides exalted lore about it. I want to know what Mab knows about Molly, to know how she'll be approaching us. The next question is going to be about Mab's goals. Exalted lore is after that.
 
Minor thought, Harry and Murphy should get a copy of that. Murphy especially might want to know a few things since she's supposed to be trying to be legal about everything. The accords might be helpful for that.
 
Hello All, been reading through the quest over the last week, great stuff DragonParadox! Anyway, not caught all the way up yet, but I've been keeping track of the votes in case the next build vote pops up while I'm working my way through.

Yog? I don't mean to step on any toes, you folks assuredly know the character and the setting better then I do at this point, but I had a question? Is it really wise to burn the Accords themselves as a focus here? Mab is a threat, no question, and both undercutting her position, and learning about our Exaltation would be a major gain, but given just how many factions, large and small, are party to the Accords it feels like this might be an ace we want to keep for a crises.

If we need a focus on lets say the Dragons in a hurry, bang, or the blackcourt, or the red, or the svartalve, denarians, ectra, some of which are groups too small for us to have prior knowledge of.

Of particular interest to me would be questions on the Accords themselves, things like, which signatories of this document are colluding with the Outside, or some such.

Forgive me if this has been brought up before, I haven't finished reading through the updates, let alone the whole thread, I am aware that there has been an ongoing debate on using focuses proactively vs reactively, but as far as focuses for major workings go, its hard to beat The Treaty binding near the whole of the supernatural community.

Mab is an immediate threat, but one it seems the thread has done quite a bit to prepare for, and for what it's worth I don't feel it's necessary to burn this particular card.
 
Minor thought, Harry and Murphy should get a copy of that. Murphy especially might want to know a few things since she's supposed to be trying to be legal about everything. The accords might be helpful for that.

Keep in mind this is written in Ye Olde Fey Legalize, Molly with her Etiquette 4 can read it all fine, but if you just dump this on a random mortal they might get more wrong than right. It is something Molly could write a translation guide to.
 
Yog? I don't mean to step on any toes, you folks assuredly know the character and the setting better then I do at this point, but I had a question? Is it really wise to burn the Accords themselves as a focus here? Mab is a threat, no question, and both undercutting her position, and learning about our Exaltation would be a major gain, but given just how many factions, large and small, are party to the Accords it feels like this might be an ace we want to keep for a crises.
This is a valid concern. My hope is that the list of signatories would count as a separate focus ( @DragonParadox , would it)? Accords are magical enough and significant enough that we were given two options when preparing for the meeting with Mab, one for Accords themselves, and one for the list of signatories.

Strategically, it's always a question whether to use one-time foci, or to hold them back. This here is one of the situations where it comes down to one's opinions. Mab is one of the most dangerous actors in the setting, and currently is, if not outright hostile to us, then at least unfriendly. As such, I value getting the best of her more than maintaining a strategic reserve of foci in the form of Accords.
Mab is an immediate threat, but one it seems the thread has done quite a bit to prepare for, and for what it's worth I don't feel it's necessary to burn this particular card.
That's actually arguable. We have done little to specifically prepare for Mab. Certainly less than we could have done. We don't have dots in Politics, or Law. Our Perception in mediocre, even if that is compensated for by ATB. We didn't do a long investigation into Mab's motivation. We don't have any boosters, like potions or enchanted objects to help us negotiate.
 
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