Warning: Warning
Why is anyone even arguing with vicky Horatio? He makes sweeping declarations and then when prompted for actual support either gives a crap ignorant argument or doesn't give one at all.

Remind me again, what's the definition of bad faith debating? While there's some gems in all this, it's gotten tiresome.

warning Damnit, that's the second irony meter I've gone through this quarter.


We don't really operate with a strict definition of bad faith debating on this forum, due to a number of issues which I'm not going to go into at length. However, whilst we do not have a strict standard of bad faith debating, we do identify a number of problematic behaviours which we can stick together under that vague umbrella. One of those is ad-hominem debating; attacking the person rather than their argument. Unfortunately, you seem to have slipped into this yourself. Whilst I can understand that forum arguments can get rather vexing at times, please try to avoid doing this in future.

I find that taking a bit of quiet time away from the computer if things are starting to get heated works wonders.

Thanks for your time.

I'm replying to this upon seeing it, so I'm sorry if someone else has already said this, but I'm tired of watching you repeat this when it's false. (Also, @Aleph, I don't think this breaks any rules [I'm not posting any links or talking about a website that might possibly be illegal], please tell me, and I'll take it down if it does.)
[REDACTED] -Skippy

warning It does.


Yeah, no, telling people how to get access to copyrighted pdfs in their entirety isn't really kosher here. Admittedly, your advice was about half a level up from "Google the names of the books", but still, it crossed the line. Due to the fairly general nature of your advice rather than providing specific links, and due to the fact that you seem not to have been acting with bad intent, just a little foolishness, I'm letting you off with a warning. Please endeavour not to do this again.

Thanks for your time.
 
[warning=Warning]It does.[/warning]

Yeah, no, telling people how to get access to copyrighted pdfs in their entirety isn't really kosher here. Admittedly, your advice was about half a level up from "Google the names of the books", but still, it crossed the line. Due to the fairly general nature of your advice rather than providing specific links, and due to the fact that you seem not to have been acting with bad intent, just a little foolishness, I'm letting you off with a warning. Please endeavour not to do this again.

Thanks for your time.
Sorry. I mean, I specifically tagged a mod asking if it was OK, was not responded to by them, and even the only non-mod to respond in any way told me something I'm still sure they're wrong about, without citing any rule that would indicate I should take it down anyway, but that still doesn't mean I should have broken the rules. I won't do it again.
 
Sorry. I mean, I specifically tagged a mod asking if it was OK, was not responded to by them, and even the only non-mod to respond in any way told me something I'm still sure they're wrong about, without citing any rule that would indicate I should take it down anyway, but that still doesn't mean I should have broken the rules. I won't do it again.

I can't speak for the decisions of other but yeah, I got the impression you weren't acting with ill intent from your post, which is why I didn't infract you. Please don't take it too hard or anything, it's not the end of the world.
 
So, to take a brief jaunt away from all that, we're homebrewing more custom Infernal charms in Green Sun, Black Shadows. Here's a shintai I slapped together in 5 minutes for Hegra; please tell me if its good or garbage and how I might improve it. Specifically, there's some contention over the high DV value. I think it's okay because there's no soak enhancement like other shintais and at E5+, undodgeable attacks are available to every Exalt type.

Hegra: Full charmset

Heart-Cloud Disaster Shintai
Cost: 20m, 2wp
Mins: Essence 5
Type: Simple
Keywords: Form-Type, Shaping, Obvious
Duration: One Scene
Prerequisite Charms: World-Drowning Cloudburst, Abundant Euphoria Apothecary, Mist-Sublimation Defense

Hegra is the mighty Typhoon of Nightmares, stalking on legs of lightning and raining down euphoria and madness in equal amounts. The Infernal aspires to but a fraction of her ethereal mania. Upon activating this charm, the Infernal's body dissolves into a roiling cloud of changing colors (Essence X 50) yards across, rising (Essence x 10) yards into the air. She cannot be harmed by non-magical attacks, as they barely disturb her gaseous form, and adds (Essence X 2) to her Dodge DV as she swirls and dances around the petty strikes of the ants beneath her. Every action the Infernal moves grants her free activations of Sky Crisis Strike equal to the number of yards she covers, to a maximum of (Essence) attacks, and the willpower cost of World-Drowning Cloudburst is waived. Finally, the Infernal's madness and mania rain down upon the world them; she freely generates a poison as with Abundant Euphoria Apothecary which falls to the ground as brilliantly-shining rain until her DV refreshes, at which point she may activate Abundant Euphoria Apothecary for 5 motes to generate a new poison to begin the rain again.

Upon reaching Essence 6, this charm upgrades automatically, increasing the size of the cloud-body to (Essence X 100) yards across and lifting the Infernal one mile into the sky, to dance amongst the other clouds.
 
So, to take a brief jaunt away from all that, we're homebrewing more custom Infernal charms in Green Sun, Black Shadows. Here's a shintai I slapped together in 5 minutes for Hegra; please tell me if its good or garbage and how I might improve it. Specifically, there's some contention over the high DV value. I think it's okay because there's no soak enhancement like other shintais and at E5+, undodgeable attacks are available to every Exalt type.

Hegra: Full charmset

Heart-Cloud Disaster Shintai
Cost: 20m, 2wp
Mins: Essence 5
Type: Simple
Keywords: Form-Type, Shaping, Obvious
Duration: One Scene
Prerequisite Charms: World-Drowning Cloudburst, Abundant Euphoria Apothecary, Mist-Sublimation Defense

Hegra is the mighty Typhoon of Nightmares, stalking on legs of lightning and raining down euphoria and madness in equal amounts. The Infernal aspires to but a fraction of her ethereal mania. Upon activating this charm, the Infernal's body dissolves into a roiling cloud of changing colors (Essence X 50) yards across, rising (Essence x 10) yards into the air. She cannot be harmed by non-magical attacks, as they barely disturb her gaseous form, and adds (Essence X 2) to her Dodge DV as she swirls and dances around the petty strikes of the ants beneath her. Every action the Infernal moves grants her free activations of Sky Crisis Strike equal to the number of yards she covers, to a maximum of (Essence) attacks, and the willpower cost of World-Drowning Cloudburst is waived. Finally, the Infernal's madness and mania rain down upon the world them; she freely generates a poison as with Abundant Euphoria Apothecary which falls to the ground as brilliantly-shining rain until her DV refreshes, at which point she may activate Abundant Euphoria Apothecary for 5 motes to generate a new poison to begin the rain again.

Upon reaching Essence 6, this charm upgrades automatically, increasing the size of the cloud-body to (Essence X 100) yards across and lifting the Infernal one mile into the sky, to dance amongst the other clouds.
+10 cap-breaking DV is really really really broken. Don't do it. No, not even then.
 
Alright. Would (+Essence) be okay? This thing needs some boost to survivability and I don't think adding soak is appropriate for a cloud.
In that case, apply external penalties. They're the go-to for making things harder to hit without the problems of broken DVs, and most powers which cancel them are conditional ("external penalties from X" rather than all external penalties).
 
In that case, apply external penalties. They're the go-to for making things harder to hit without the problems of broken DVs, and most powers which cancel them are conditional ("external penalties from X" rather than all external penalties).
So something like "all attacks against the Infernal receive an external penalty equal to the Infernal's permanent essence" would be better?
 
So something like "all attacks against the Infernal receive an external penalty equal to the Infernal's permanent essence" would be better?
Probably, yeah, but it's still really really powerful.

Honestly I would just crib mechanics from the "giant sandstorm" Shintai. Some kind of effect reducing maximum damage taken or something. You're a cloud, so no matter how accurate someone is it's really difficult to meaningfully damage your entire being.

As it stands, by making yourself harder to hit, you don't really change how much damage is taken in the end. If someone uses a high-damage weapon or Charms and manages to land a hit on you, you get severely hurt because... A cloud a hundred yards across is highly vulnerable to big hammers? That doesn't make much sense.
 
That shintai can't take more than 1 damage unless the attack encompasses at least a tenth of the entire body, or is from a similarly-sized creature. This shintai isn't quite so large, so that effect won't be as potent. Still an idea though.
 
That shintai can't take more than 1 damage unless the attack encompasses at least a tenth of the entire body, or is from a similarly-sized creature. This shintai isn't quite so large, so that effect won't be as potent. Still an idea though.

This is still way, way too powerful. If you have any kind of regen you are basically invencible.

The only Damage capper i know is Dread Gear Fortification, one of the panoply charms of the bloody Viator, and that is much less powerful that that.
 
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Honestly, if the word scientist come up in describing a character, and its not for Modern or Heavens Reach (even for Autochthonia I'd be wary), then the character is probably wrong for Exalted. Mainly because the term is absolutely loaded with implications and ties to modern understanding of how the world works. A lot of which doesn't apply to Exalted in general, and definitely don't apply to the Age of Sorrows. Natural philosopher, alchemist, and sorcerer are terms that just plain work better with the intended genre of Exalted, and tend to describe people in the world better.

(Sorry for the mini rant, but 'I want to be a mad scientist' in vanilla Exalted is one of those things that really annoys me. What, people can't take the time and effort to come up with a concept that actually fits the time period? It's not like the differences between a sorcerer and a mad scientist aren't paper thin in any case.)
I use the term "mad scientist" to mean "not particularly stable Maker Of Plot Devices". Alchemists almost always qualify. I suppose I could have been more clear at the time, though.
They're mad inventors. They're not scientists. The word has baggage that doesn't really apply to the Forge God crafting magical wonders or the demigod inventor making logic-defying labryinth's and the like.
Interesting. For me, Doctor Light, Doctor Octopus, Doctor Frankenstein, Hephaestus, Professor Kevyn Andreyasn, Agatha Heterodyne, and nearly half the cast of Fullmetal Alchemist all qualify as Mad Scientists. None of them do much science (onscreen) but they're the guys who come to mind.
Actual scientists in fiction? Well, there's Hange Zoe of Shingeki no Kyojin, Doctor Shen from XCOM, and innumerable Smart Guys in fighting series. Only the first two* ping as Mad Scientists, and of those, Zoe is the only one who doesn't Make Stuff.
So I think the term Mad Scientist refers to something quite different than the term Scientist does.

*I haven't heard of Mad Scientists who are also Smart Guys in a fighting series before, but please do tell me if you know one.
Basically, I still consider the best crafting charm ever made in 2e to be a little-known piece of homebrew by somebody called Riklurt back on the old WW boards way back before even 2.5e, called Legendary Blade Infusion.
Wow, that's a fleshed out, canon-compatible version of one of my half formed ideas. And you like it. Cool.
Now to make something that I haven't seen elsewhere.
 
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So, to take a brief jaunt away from all that, we're homebrewing more custom Infernal charms in Green Sun, Black Shadows. Here's a shintai I slapped together in 5 minutes for Hegra; please tell me if its good or garbage and how I might improve it. Specifically, there's some contention over the high DV value. I think it's okay because there's no soak enhancement like other shintais and at E5+, undodgeable attacks are available to every Exalt type.

Hegra: Full charmset

Heart-Cloud Disaster Shintai
Cost: 20m, 2wp
Mins: Essence 5
Type: Simple
Keywords: Form-Type, Shaping, Obvious
Duration: One Scene
Prerequisite Charms: World-Drowning Cloudburst, Abundant Euphoria Apothecary, Mist-Sublimation Defense

Hegra is the mighty Typhoon of Nightmares, stalking on legs of lightning and raining down euphoria and madness in equal amounts. The Infernal aspires to but a fraction of her ethereal mania. Upon activating this charm, the Infernal's body dissolves into a roiling cloud of changing colors (Essence X 50) yards across, rising (Essence x 10) yards into the air. She cannot be harmed by non-magical attacks, as they barely disturb her gaseous form, and adds (Essence X 2) to her Dodge DV as she swirls and dances around the petty strikes of the ants beneath her. Every action the Infernal moves grants her free activations of Sky Crisis Strike equal to the number of yards she covers, to a maximum of (Essence) attacks, and the willpower cost of World-Drowning Cloudburst is waived. Finally, the Infernal's madness and mania rain down upon the world them; she freely generates a poison as with Abundant Euphoria Apothecary which falls to the ground as brilliantly-shining rain until her DV refreshes, at which point she may activate Abundant Euphoria Apothecary for 5 motes to generate a new poison to begin the rain again.

Upon reaching Essence 6, this charm upgrades automatically, increasing the size of the cloud-body to (Essence X 100) yards across and lifting the Infernal one mile into the sky, to dance amongst the other clouds.
Okay, this is a pretty fucking powerful offensive Shintai. Now, as has already been mentioned, ditch the (Essence*2) DV enhancer, it's too powerful for even a Shintai. Instead crib notes from the GSOTED and get the effect that reduces an attack to one unless they're big enough or have the right charms to effect you. It's the War-Shintai of a Yozi, they're supposed to be powerful. The Offensive effects seem alright, though I'd suggest that making it so that the free Sky-Crisis Strike effect can't strike the same target more than once per action, it's a free flurry otherwise and we all know how bad that can get. On the AOE maddness effect, I'd say make it free and always on, but you need to pay the normal cost if you want to change the effect. It's powerful, mortals are going to die in droves or go bonkers, but that's normal for War-Shintais; Malfeas kills them with magical radiation poison, Cecelyne with a sand-storm that can strip the flesh from bone and Revlid's Black-Star Shintai crushes them with gravitational fields and Metagao's Bottomless Mire-Maw Shintai literally eats them by the squad load.
 
Alright, here's the edited version. Removed the DV enhancer for the damage limit and clarified that you can't flurry with the free Sky Crisis Strikes.


Heart-Cloud Disaster Shintai
Cost: 20m, 2wp
Mins: Essence 5
Type: Simple
Keywords: Form-Type, Shaping, Obvious
Duration: One Scene
Prerequisite Charms: World-Drowning Cloudburst, Abundant Euphoria Apothecary, Mist-Sublimation Defense

Hegra is the mighty Typhoon of Nightmares, stalking on legs of lightning and raining down euphoria and madness in equal amounts. The Infernal aspires to but a fraction of her ethereal mania. Upon activating this charm, the Infernal's body dissolves into a roiling cloud of changing colors (Essence X 50) yards across, rising (Essence x 10) yards into the air. She cannot be harmed by non-magical attacks, as they barely disturb her gaseous form, and cannot suffer more than 1 damage level per attack in step ten unless the attack encompasses more than one-tenth of her body, or if the attacker is similarly massive. Every action the Infernal moves grants her free activations of Sky Crisis Strike equal to the number of yards she covers, to a maximum of (Essence) attacks which may not be flurried at the same target, and the willpower cost of World-Drowning Cloudburst is waived. Finally, the Infernal's madness and mania rain down upon the world; she freely generates a poison as with Abundant Euphoria Apothecary which falls to the ground as brilliantly-shining rain. She may pay the normal cost of that charm in order to brew a new poison to shower down on her foes.

Upon reaching Essence 6, this charm upgrades automatically, increasing the size of the cloud-body to (Essence X 100) yards across and lifting the Infernal one mile into the sky, to dance amongst the other clouds.
 
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Hey, i just realized something about the two different kinds of artifact crafting that we are talking about: my completely unfinished and nearly abbandoned sketches of an alternative crafting system can actually support both!

Basically my stunted brainchild is a modification of the current EX3 Crafting system: it nixes the use of silver points for basic and major projects (And possibly nixes the major and basic project entirely) transforming them into usable monetary resources. The gold points (And potentially the white ones, does not really knows) are now Inspiration, which is needed only to create Artifacts (Which may be renamed because i actually like more your potential names), and are gained by using the other Twilight abilities to do things(Ritual circles, studies of the lunar phases, meditation on the nature of reality, draughts that indunce revelations).

Both resources are needed to create Artifacts, but can be consumed in a variable proportion: thus the Murderhobo or, more poetically, the hedge witch who is really really poor, but is also creating her current work on notes, Wonders, and rites left by her ancestors, would have a lot of Inspiration, but nearly no Monetary Resources, thus having to use all of her inspiration to create her Artifact. Now the Hedge Witch has to redo again the work of ages to make another Artifact.

Meanwhile the rich dinast can basically force an Artifact with the sheer power of Dosh, only needing to do minor things to gain the bit of Inspiration necessary to spark the idea. Add a System to deal with infrastructure, giving bonuses and unique effects for what you have created, and you can support both the splendor of the first age and the witch doctor struggling for generations, but in the end succeding to do something unique.
 
It's desirable as armour, sure. Think like, say, Fallout. Pre-war Combat Armour is pretty good stuff! It's not like having it means you automatically win fights with people wearing post-war Metal Armour or even tilts the fight in a heavy manner, but it's certainly worth having.

If there was a US Army National Guard post right there for you to loot for Combat Armour, would you wear it over making Metal Armour? Of course you would. If you were a raider warlord without such a handy source and someone put Combat Armour up for sale, would you buy it (or kill the auctioneer)? Of course you would.

However, this is fine: it's "just" lightweight, comfortable, hard-wearing and protective armour. This has a very low impact on the metagame, relatively speaking. The lost products of the pre-apocalypse civilization don't have to hand out Dexterity bonuses or have their own charmsets to be worth looting, y'know. We can have a scavenger economy and also no combinatorial hell or Codpieces of Strength.
Well, of course you're going to use it if it falls into your lap, but people are still going to considerable trouble to scavenge this stuff centuries after the fact. All the easy sources are long since depleted; the fact that people are still looking indicates that it must be really, really desirable. Since these are not, on the whole, stupid people, that means that either a) it's useful enough to risk being torn apart by an angry yidak for (i.e. it's very mechanically desirable, exactly what you want to avoid), or b) artifacts occupy a similar niche as eyeball-sized diamonds; their real value is as crown jewels rather than as combat equipment.

You... could go with the latter, I guess. You'd have to make some serious changes to the way the setting treats artifacts, though. They'd probably almost never actually be used in combat - the precious:practical ratio would be far too high.

Because F-22s will murder the fuck out of F-16s, and if you can build F-16s someone else who is not your friend can probably do the same.
Given the current state of Creation, if two polities close enough to come into conflict are both developing "build F-16"-level infrastructure at the same time (as opposed to one getting there first and promptly crushing the other), then something very strange is happening in your game. F-16s are generally more than enough. I mean, it could happen, but it seems more than a bit contrived.

And more to the point, we already know that no such nations have existed at least since the Great Contagion, meaning that any such discoveries in the intervening centuries were basically useless.
 
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Well, of course you're going to use it if it falls into your lap, but people are still going to considerable trouble to scavenge this stuff centuries after the fact. All the easy sources are long since depleted; the fact that people are still looking indicates that it must be really, really desirable. Since these are not, on the whole, stupid people, that means that either a) it's useful enough to risk being torn apart by an angry yidak for (i.e. it's very mechanically desirable, exactly what you want to avoid), or b) artifacts occupy a similar niche as eyeball-sized diamonds; their real value is as crown jewels rather than as combat equipment.

Mechanically desirable isn't inherently bad, so long as it's mechanically desirable in such a way that doesn't lead to degenerate states such as the christmas tree of stat buff bling.

You... could go with the latter, I guess. You'd have to make some serious changes to the way the setting treats artifacts, though. They'd probably almost never actually be used in combat - the precious:practical ratio would be far too low.

Desirable is relative, though. Again, let's posit a scenario where, say, a Shogunate-era / First Age sword is practically unbreakable, never needs sharpening, holds an edge that can split eyelashes, is as light as balsa wood, etc etc. Better than a normal sword in every possible way, but ultimately, just a really good sword. It won't give you Solar Melee Charms. It won't give you stupid broken Dexterity bonuses or cap-breaking DV or any of the other broken, idiotic things you get in the D&D magic item model where magic items get to carry arbitrary boni just because they're magic.

So. If you're a scavenger with a lot of guts and daring and not a lot of money, and you manage to retrieve such a thing, you can probably put that sword in the hands of some rich Dynast who wants it because he's rich enough to afford to blow serious cash on a status symbol and retire off that one deal. If you're the Dynast, you spend money in order to get the best possible sword that you can own, a valuable relic of a lost era that is also rather good at killing people.

But the vast majority of that Dynast's ability to kill people will still come from Dragon-Blooded Charms, not his sword, which merely provides a bit of extra stats and is mutually exclusive with all other sources of said stats besides... Dragon-Blooded Charms. Given how much easier this is to balance and test, this is inherently desirable.

Given the current state of Creation, if two polities close enough to come into conflict are both developing "build F-16"-level infrastructure at the same time (as opposed to one getting there first and promptly crushing the other), then something very strange is happening in your game. F-16s are generally more than enough. I mean, it could happen, but it seems more than a bit contrived.

I hear 300 Solaroids just started running amok in the last few years.

And more to the point, we already know that no such nations have existed at least since the Great Contagion, meaning that any such discoveries in the intervening centuries were basically useless.

Which is entirely fine. What is the issue you're having here?
 
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Given the current state of Creation, if two polities close enough to come into conflict are both developing "build F-16"-level infrastructure at the same time (as opposed to one getting there first and promptly crushing the other), then something very strange is happening in your game. F-16s are generally more than enough. I mean, it could happen, but it seems more than a bit contrived.

60 Twilight types just arrived in creation.

I don't know about you, but if I'm playing a twilight in such a game, I'm gonna be keeping a very close eye on what another twilight is doing. If hes working on tower sized city destroying golem, then naturally I'm going to have to accelerate hatching my armies of super hero broccoli men and giant dinosaurs in smoking jackets.

Having my circle in possession of a thousand forged dragon as a 'back up' option will never go amiss. Not to mention the last few properly sanctified to the UCS shadowland devourers, or the final 'nuclear' option of summoning a 3cd.
 
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Desirable is relative, though. Again, let's posit a scenario where, say, a Shogunate-era / First Age sword is practically unbreakable, never needs sharpening, holds an edge that can split eyelashes, is as light as balsa wood, etc etc. Better than a normal sword in every possible way, but ultimately, just a really good sword. It won't give you Solar Melee Charms. It won't give you stupid broken Dexterity bonuses or cap-breaking DV or any of the other broken, idiotic things you get in the D&D magic item model where magic items get to carry arbitrary boni just because they're magic.

So. If you're a scavenger with a lot of guts and daring and not a lot of money, and you manage to retrieve such a thing, you can probably put that sword in the hands of some rich Dynast who wants it because he's rich enough to afford to blow serious cash on a status symbol and retire off that one deal. If you're the Dynast, you spend money in order to get the best possible sword that you can own, a valuable relic of a lost era that is also rather good at killing people.

But the vast majority of that Dynast's ability to kill people will still come from Dragon-Blooded Charms, not his sword, which merely provides a bit of extra stats and is mutually exclusive with all other sources of said stats besides... Dragon-Blooded Charms. Given how much easier this is to balance and test, this is inherently desirable.
Hmm. That requires the Dynast to be absurdly wealthy by Threshold standards, which, of course, he is. It also requires him to deal fairly with the scavenger, which... some fraction of Dynasts will. It raises some questions about the existence of experienced scavenger lords who didn't retire after hitting it big, but that's manageable and not a major issue anyway.

There are other issues, though. It kind of screws Terrestrial artificers - a sword like that isn't really worth spending months-to-years making, if you're one of the people rich enough to buy them. (And the ones you make aren't even relics!) So there wouldn't be very many of them, especially in the Realm. This in turn means that the Realm's jade stockpile is of little strategic value, if they bothered amassing it in the first place. It also means that Sidereals going after starmetal are just kind of giant dicks, since starmetal equipment is easy enough to do without. (Not that it isn't dickish to begin with, but at least you can imagine a Sidereal saying "yes, I really do need the starmetal this badly".) And it means that making Soulsteel is purely for the evulz instead of ruthlessly pragmatic cruelty.

I hear 300 Solaroids just started running amok in the last few years.
Yes, and I'm sure two of them who hate each other are going to set up shop in neighboring nations and build them up at almost exactly the same pace such that neither has a time when he can just roll over the other. Because that isn't contrived at all. It's not impossible. Maybe relations were fine for years and then abruptly broke down - possibly due to a particularly unfortunate limit break. But it's definitely on the unusual side.

(Of course, campaigns do tend to include some unusual situations; there's nothing wrong with two Solar kings locked in an arms race. Definitely "this is a major theme of the campaign" territory, though. Or maybe "okay, you guys have established your nation as comfortably able to stand up to the Realm. And you don't want to end the campaign here. Uh, what now?")

Which is entirely fine. What is the issue you're having here?
It's not a problem, it's just that it doesn't really justify the existence of scavenger lords.
 
Yes, and I'm sure two of them who hate each other are going to set up shop in neighboring nations and build them up at almost exactly the same pace such that neither has a time when he can just roll over the other. Because that isn't contrived at all. It's not impossible. Maybe relations were fine for years and then abruptly broke down - possibly due to a particularly unfortunate limit break. But it's definitely on the unusual side.

(Of course, campaigns do tend to include some unusual situations; there's nothing wrong with two Solar kings locked in an arms race. Definitely "this is a major theme of the campaign" territory, though. Or maybe "okay, you guys have established your nation as comfortably able to stand up to the Realm. And you don't want to end the campaign here. Uh, what now?")
Campaign based on The Brothers' War? Do want, for some reason I loved that book.
 
Hmm. That requires the Dynast to be absurdly wealthy by Threshold standards, which, of course, he is. It also requires him to deal fairly with the scavenger, which... some fraction of Dynasts will. It raises some questions about the existence of experienced scavenger lords who didn't retire after hitting it big, but that's manageable and not a major issue anyway.

There are other issues, though. It kind of screws Terrestrial artificers - a sword like that isn't really worth spending months-to-years making, if you're one of the people rich enough to buy them. (And the ones you make aren't even relics!) So there wouldn't be very many of them, especially in the Realm. This in turn means that the Realm's jade stockpile is of little strategic value, if they bothered amassing it in the first place. It also means that Sidereals going after starmetal are just kind of giant dicks, since starmetal equipment is easy enough to do without. (Not that it isn't dickish to begin with, but at least you can imagine a Sidereal saying "yes, I really do need the starmetal this badly".) And it means that making Soulsteel is purely for the evulz instead of ruthlessly pragmatic cruelty.

Why isn't of strategic value?

Jade can be used to make more then just swords. They can still produce Warstriders and Artifact vehciles for example, and there are few things that aren't strategic about an unstoppable vessel from the first age that can smash through fleets with sheer momentum, even before their weapon systems are powered up.

Manses still need to be capped and built,
 
Mechanically desirable isn't inherently bad, so long as it's mechanically desirable in such a way that doesn't lead to degenerate states such as the christmas tree of stat buff bling.
I wonder if a quickly-stacking extra attunement cost for having too many artifacts attuned simulteneously can help alleviate that. (Kinda like a stacking Dexterity-and-other-stuff penalty for layering armour . . . in systems that allow realistic armour-layering, that is.)

Desirable is relative, though. Again, let's posit a scenario where, say, a Shogunate-era / First Age sword is practically unbreakable, never needs sharpening, holds an edge that can split eyelashes, is as light as balsa wood, etc etc. Better than a normal sword in every possible way, but ultimately, just a really good sword. It won't give you Solar Melee Charms. It won't give you stupid broken Dexterity bonuses or cap-breaking DV or any of the other broken, idiotic things you get in the D&D magic item model where magic items get to carry arbitrary boni just because they're magic.

So. If you're a scavenger with a lot of guts and daring and not a lot of money, and you manage to retrieve such a thing, you can probably put that sword in the hands of some rich Dynast who wants it because he's rich enough to afford to blow serious cash on a status symbol and retire off that one deal. If you're the Dynast, you spend money in order to get the best possible sword that you can own, a valuable relic of a lost era that is also rather good at killing people.

But the vast majority of that Dynast's ability to kill people will still come from Dragon-Blooded Charms, not his sword, which merely provides a bit of extra stats and is mutually exclusive with all other sources of said stats besides... Dragon-Blooded Charms. Given how much easier this is to balance and test, this is inherently desirable.
. . . And this is why I asked what sort of world is considered a desirable one for the worldbuilders. Because if a three-dot artifact is just a sword that is about as good as pre-patch Perfect sword, then suddenly ancient noble clans have much less of an incentive to tremble over the millenia-long histories of such weapons or pay half-kingdoms for a few such blades. Artifacts become less of a mythically cool thing, and more of a wall-hanger that might as well be replaced with something different; their symbolic value - that of status symbols - becomes fully divorsed from their ability to actually enable mythic last stands or whatever. And Scavenger Lords, instead of their old role of Lara Crofts and Indiana Joneses trading in ancient wonders, instead become some sort of a glorified hybrid of De Beers Group and KA-BAR Knives Inc. (only also not as large in scale).

That's certainly a valid world, but is this a desirable outcome for the Exalted setting? If yes, I suppose that can be explored further.

I hear 300 Solaroids just started running amok in the last few years.
That does seem to produce many quickly-rising empires (say, 60 out of those 300 will go empire-building, 120 will help their friends empire-build together, 120 will go murder-hoboing or otherwise not-empire-building, and 60 will fail/die/etc. somehow), but probably will also result in empires distributed pretty far from each other . . . not sure if that's good or bad.
 
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