General Exalted Thread

[EarthScorpion]

A trinity of media (Hun, Po, Body), on the sum of which the mind runs, is actually quite a workable system. It gets weird when one considers the way Demon, God, Godblood, and Ghost minds work, though, but I suppose that just requires more work to sort out - maybe God Huns are more advanced versions of Hun or something.

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No, you're thinking the wrong way around.

Humans and their two-soul design are the weird ones. They're an engineered, artificially created race of prayer-cattle made to produce high essence yield prayers. A god praying to you is going to give a fucktonne less essence than a human, because humans are optimised to be prayer cattle. And the po is the seat of power in humans - not the hun. Humans are basically a po power plant with a plug-on hun guidance system that does the things intelligence requires, without having access to the power the po produces. So it can all be directed towards prayer.


Gods, demons, dragon-kings - they're the normal ones. Humans were built for a specific purpose and are not normal.

 

[Kiriel]

All this talk of metaphysical juju is making is ask questions. I came in late to Exalted so most of the esoteric is still beyond me at the moment.

Is the seat of memory separate from flesh and soul? Does brain damage and lobotomy affect memories of the soul? Where is this stuff written so I can read?

 

[Hazard]

Oh, don't have doubts about that. But even if it works, it works in different principles. The reason why rehidratation is the right treatment for cholera is because the person is suffering from an inbalance in her elemental essences, not because she will die from shock if her arterial pressure drops too much.

It may look the same, but there is a difference there. One that normally isn't relevant, but sometimes may come up.

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Didn't you know that blood has a very strong Water elemental charge? That's why when the body can't replenish its water due to vomiting or diarrhea or has lost too much blood it fails. Forcing it to take in more water and keeping it in is therefore required for proper treatment.

 

[Broken25]

Didn't you know that blood has a very strong Water elemental charge? That's why when the body can't replenish its water due to vomiting or diarrhea or has lost too much blood it fails. Forcing it to take in more water and keeping it in is therefore required for proper treatment.

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Err... yes? That's exactly what i said.

 

[vicky_molokh]

No, you're thinking the wrong way around.

Humans and their two-soul design are the weird ones. They're an engineered, artificially created race of prayer-cattle made to produce high essence yield prayers. A god praying to you is going to give a fucktonne less essence than a human, because humans are optimised to be prayer cattle. And the po is the seat of power in humans - not the hun. Humans are basically a po power plant with a plug-on hun guidance system that does the things intelligence requires, without having access to the power the po produces. So it can all be directed towards prayer.


Gods, demons, dragon-kings - they're the normal ones. Humans were built for a specific purpose and are not normal.

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Hmm. Indeed, humans are the engineered ones, you're right. Though that raises some more questions, such as:

• If the Po is designed as a seat of power for the prayer-generation, why does it also perform computative functions?
• If Po provides the power, does an Exalt lose access to Charms while sleeping if he happened to be a Ghostblood with a wandering Po?
• If the human design is streamlined, why does it happen to be that Exaltations are only compatible with humans? Is it because despite all the engi-shortcuts, they're still actually superior as a slot for plugging in one more soul? Or is it because Exaltations are Silly iPod Souls who refuse to recharge through a non-copyrighted USB cable?
• How does the Exalt-soul slot work in terms of plug-and-playness? E.g. what happens when an Immaculate becomes a Solar, like in that story people keep mentioning in the wake of new Exalted publications related to the kickstarter?

Not so much feeding it information as an exchange of information occurring as life progresses getting saved due to its apparent utility.

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I suppose that is also a valid way to say it. The point is that information goes in both directions.

Ah, that homunculus is such a brilliant piece that the Exalt that made it is actually running it on their own soul.

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I didn't know that. Is this a hypothesis, or is it explicit in the description of the Spell/Charm?

Also, the First Age had brilliant doctors with Medicine and Intelligence 10 and even they couldn't do it. There's so much lost of the First Age that some major underpinning concepts and laws of Creation and existence have to be rediscovered before they can come even close to equaling the grandeur of the First Age.

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Weird. Essence 10 is "powers beyond those which forged the universe. Not even the Primordials fully understand Essence 10; at this level of effect, the intellects which defined existence find themselves in the position of discovery. What challenges even the Primordials, a Solar may come naturally to grasp and engender: power beyond all reason". I would expect that to be the sort of level wisdom that would give understanding of such things.

Also, souls are always needed. Without it the best you can get is a well programmed robot that can't adapt its programming.

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Okay, I suppose mathematics in Exalted work differently than in our world, otherwise I can't envision how that works. Though that still sounds weird when combined with this:

Ehm, no? Modern medicine will work just as well in Creation as it does here. It's just that a properly skilled doctor in Creation probably knows the proper procedures for realigning a person's essence pathways and regain the proper balance by sticking some needles in, which also works. And, of course, modern medicine has no answer to flat out magical diseases that have no internally identifiable cause.

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If medicine works the way it does in our world, then things like brain-electrode stimulation, neuron manipulation, encephalogrammes and molecular biology all that work as in our world. That . . . seems like it shouldn't produce the phenomena that exist in Exalted. (I also wonder if future medicine works in Exalted as it does in our world.)

All this talk of metaphysical juju is making is ask questions. I came in late to Exalted so most of the esoteric is still beyond me at the moment.

Is the seat of memory separate from flesh and soul? Does brain damage and lobotomy affect memories of the soul? Where is this stuff written so I can read?

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Also, this. What is the section where all this info about how souls of various entities works gathered?

 

[Carrnage]

No, you're thinking the wrong way around.

Humans and their two-soul design are the weird ones. They're an engineered, artificially created race of prayer-cattle made to produce high essence yield prayers. A god praying to you is going to give a fucktonne less essence than a human, because humans are optimised to be prayer cattle. And the po is the seat of power in humans - not the hun. Humans are basically a po power plant with a plug-on hun guidance system that does the things intelligence requires, without having access to the power the po produces. So it can all be directed towards prayer.


Gods, demons, dragon-kings - they're the normal ones. Humans were built for a specific purpose and are not normal.

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Also they're crippled variants of one of autochthon's favorite creations and partially created to mock him.


Which i suspect was a good portion of his motivation for choosing them to become exalted besides the practical implications.

 

[Hazard]

Err... yes? That's exactly what i said.

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Ah, slight difference; the explanation I offered implied that if a more modern day doctor took a look at that statement his conclusion would be 'well of course, otherwise she'd enter shock due to a loss of blood pressure,' which yours didn't.

If you laid a traditional herbal remedy, an acupuncture procedure and a modern day pill out next to each other, and all of them work on the same issue (this is important, Exalted is no less prone to quacks selling snake oil than real life) you simple need to find an explanation why.

Like, why does willow bark cure a flu?
Well, it doesn't, actually, just like aspirin, a modern day medicine based on the same substance as in willow bark. However, it's still a useful medicine to use as a treatment of flu because it's a minor pain and fever suppressor, which are key symptoms of flu, and the latter of which can cause major damage to a patient. This makes successful treatment much easier.

When Exalted notes 'traditional medicine works' it doesn't work because 'magic and shit.' It works because it somehow causes the proper reaction in the body, which could be due to magic if it's backed by Charms, but is more likely due to a body's response to an outside stimulus.

 

[Walker of the Yellow Path]

• How does the Exalt-soul slot work in terms of plug-and-playness? E.g. what happens when an Immaculate becomes a Solar, like in that story people keep mentioning in the wake of new Exalted publications related to the kickstarter?

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Dragon-Blooded Immaculate monks cannot become Solars. That story should never have been written, and was acknowledged by most the thread to be based on a poor understanding of the setting. Mortal Immaculate Monks can definitely Exalt as a Solar, though I'd imagine most would kill themselves, or let their Sifu's kill them.

And on how Exaltations work... you have to remember that Exaltations were made for humans. Not because humans were mighty, or powerful. But because they weren't affected by the Primordial Geas, and so could tell people 'Fuck you' if given an order. Theoretically, you should be able to make Exaltation equivalents for Gods and Demons, but you'd need Autocthon to wake up and help you with it, since no one else really understands the Exaltation Souls that he made like he does.

But Exaltations are not made to enhance Gods or Demons, and it's a miracle and a half that they can even affect God-Blooded and the like.

Though this talk makes me think about Third Souls, and how Dragon-Blooded get them.

Would it be that DB's get their Exaltations by having a high enough concentration of Terrestrial blood that it causes them to start growing a 3rd Soul? And then when it's done growing, the Dragon-Blooded in question does the heroic act that catalyzes and jumpstarts the newly made essence engine in his soul?

 

[Hazard]

I didn't know that. Is this a hypothesis, or is it explicit in the description of the Spell/Charm?

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Hypothesis. However, if it's the Charm I'm thinking on (Dual Magnus Prana)... Well, it's a Solar Charm. So by nature it runs off the Solar's Essence and soul structure.

Weird. Essence 10 is "powers beyond those which forged the universe. Not even the Primordials fully understand Essence 10; at this level of effect, the intellects which defined existence find themselves in the position of discovery. What challenges even the Primordials, a Solar may come naturally to grasp and engender: power beyond all reason". I would expect that to be the sort of level wisdom that would give understanding of such things.

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Well, quite reasonably they've put a lot of effort into it.

They've never managed to figure it out fully. That's important; they no doubt got a fair way, but if it's possible they never got far enough to do more than hypothesise.

Okay, I suppose mathematics in Exalted work differently than in our world, otherwise I can't envision how that works. Though that still sounds weird when combined with this:

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The important bit is that if something without a soul it's possible to determine what will without a doubt happen to something in the future if you've got a good enough calculator to check the equations.

In Exalted the soul let's someone say 'no, that doesn't happen that way,' and the strength of one's soul, one's Essence rating really, gives a rough indication of how loudly they can say that and make it stick.

If medicine works the way it does in our world, then things like brain-electrode stimulation, neuron manipulation, encephalogrammes and molecular biology all that work as in our world. That . . . seems like it shouldn't produce the phenomena that exist in Exalted. (I also wonder if future medicine works in Exalted as it does in our world.)

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Why not? All those things have an essential nature and hold essence just as everything else does in Creation.

Also, this. What is the section where all this info about how souls of various entities works gathered?

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Mostly scattered throughout the game line, sadly.

 

[beowolf]

I have no good options to read them.

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I'm replying to this upon seeing it, so I'm sorry if someone else has already said this, but I'm tired of watching you repeat this when it's false. (Also, @Aleph, I don't think this breaks any rules [I'm not posting any links or talking about a website that might possibly be illegal], please tell me, and I'll take it down if it does.)

[REDACTED] - Skippy

 

[Scia]

• If the Po is designed as a seat of power for the prayer-generation, why does it also perform computative functions?

• If Po provides the power, does an Exalt lose access to Charms while sleeping if he happened to be a Ghostblood with a wandering Po?

• If the human design is streamlined, why does it happen to be that Exaltations are only compatible with humans? Is it because despite all the engi-shortcuts, they're still actually superior as a slot for plugging in one more soul? Or is it because Exaltations are Silly iPod Souls who refuse to recharge through a non-copyrighted USB cable?

• How does the Exalt-soul slot work in terms of plug-and-playness? E.g. what happens when an Immaculate becomes a Solar, like in that story people keep mentioning in the wake of new Exalted publications related to the kickstarter?

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The Po only performs emotional constants, as one can see with hungry ghosts which are only Po elements and which, after the remaining imprints of there hun sol leave the body return to being animalistic being that defend there lair without knowing why.

2.Quite intersting without a canon answer, I would say that the exalted is at least unable to regenerate motes while it wanders but we spend more thought on that then the authors.
3.Humans are a shity third party product and Exaltations are designed to work with them instead of a propper soul structure.
4. Already adressed you only got a single slot for a exaltation so you can't put two usb sticks into the same slot at the same time.l

 

[Omicron]

I'm replying to this upon seeing it, so I'm sorry if someone else has already said this, but I'm tired of watching you repeat this when it's false. (Also, @Aleph, I don't think this breaks any rules [I'm not posting any links or talking about a website that might possibly be illegal], please tell me, and I'll take it down if it does.)
[REDACTED] - Skippy

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[REDACTED]'s uploading of whatever it can find is illegal - or, if not "illegal", operates under whatever pretense of legality people generally use to spread pirated material. I actually pointed it out to Holden when I saw some of his personal work up there (and later realized all the books were there) and his response was more or less "yeah but what you gonna do."

 

[Kuciwalker]

Either "neuron equivalents are neurons", or the thinking is done by non-neurons (e.g. by some organs of the Hun and Po) and neurons are not neurons. Can't have it both ways.

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Exalted is an animist setting. You just cannot hit it with this level of reductionism. The resulting philosophical issues are the necessary consequence of animism. Stuff is not just "crude matter".

 

[Nervaqus987]

Hmm.

I was under the impression that while it's clear that hun souls come from the Well of Souls and reincarnate, the same isn't true for pos. In Creation (as opposed to the unnatural hack of Autochthonia) pos remain with the body after death, protecting the corpse. They then can rise as a hungry ghost, but I thought that if they don't rise, they instead dissipate and their essence returns to the natural flows of the world, in the same way that animal souls do (because the human po is much more like the soul of an animal).

So you don't get someone reincarnating with the same hun and po outside of Autochthonia, because in Creation every po lives only once.

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Po's rising after death is kinda funky, thanks in no small part to the influence of the Underworld.

Under natural circumstances, I think I remember something about them only being able to last three days* or so after death before dissolving. But with the Underworld being a thing, a (strong enough?) Po can endure more or less indefinitely. Hence, why raiding ancient Solar Tombs tends to result in the Po waking up and politely requesting for tomb raiders to stop stealing their stuff.

But yeah. The Well of Souls provides a new Po and occasionally spits out new Hun along with recycling old ones.


*Which is also the time frame when the Po is supposed to have some lingering traces of influence from the Hun and is able to think, although that decays rapidly over time.

 

[Imrix]

If the Po is designed as a seat of power for the prayer-generation, why does it also perform computative functions?

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Because the computational functions it performs (being the seat of emotion) is a driving force of prayer, I imagine.

If the human design is streamlined, why does it happen to be that Exaltations are only compatible with humans?

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Where do you get the idea that the human design is streamlined? If anything it's more complex than other races. At any rate, this is chiefly because Exaltation was designed specifically for humans.

How does the Exalt-soul slot work in terms of plug-and-playness? E.g. what happens when an Immaculate becomes a Solar, like in that story people keep mentioning in the wake of new Exalted publications related to the kickstarter?

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Short answer: It doesn't. Double-Exalt is a dumb thing that should never have been written, and even the devs have said as much.

 

[vicky_molokh]

Short answer: It doesn't. Double-Exalt is a dumb thing that should never have been written, and even the devs have said as much.

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Dragon-Blooded Immaculate monks cannot become Solars. That story should never have been written, and was acknowledged by most the thread to be based on a poor understanding of the setting. Mortal Immaculate Monks can definitely Exalt as a Solar, though I'd imagine most would kill themselves, or let their Sifu's kill them.

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Heh. Chambers strikes from the . . . um, from whereever the already-deposed line editors of questionable competence and/or preferences strike.

The important bit is that if something without a soul it's possible to determine what will without a doubt happen to something in the future if you've got a good enough calculator to check the equations.

In Exalted the soul let's someone say 'no, that doesn't happen that way,' and the strength of one's soul, one's Essence rating really, gives a rough indication of how loudly they can say that and make it stick.

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Hmm. That tells two interesting things about the world of Exalted:

1. The world is both finite and all of its values (position in space/time, amount of matter etc. etc.) can be measured in quantable, integer units (or can be accurately converted to such)
2. Souls are Black-Box True Random Number Generators.

Why not? All those things have an essential nature and hold essence just as everything else does in Creation.

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If all the medical stuff of our world (e.g PET) works in Exalted, that means that things function the same as in our world down to the sub-atomic level, and so any sorts of laws that are true in our world down to that level are also true in Creation, and also that any influences that don't exist in our world but would frak up all those phenomena if they existed don't exist in Exalted.
Not only does that look like too much science for a fantasy setting, but it also likely wasn't the intent of the authors (IMHO only), and probably contradicts some factual statements about the setting somewhere. I can certainly accept a setting that works like that, but I get the impression that Exalted isn't such a setting. E.g.:

Exalted is an animist setting. You just cannot hit it with this level of reductionism. The resulting philosophical issues are the necessary consequence of animism. Stuff is not just "crude matter".

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----

Where do you get the idea that the human design is streamlined? If anything it's more complex than other races. At any rate, this is chiefly because Exaltation was designed specifically for humans.

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I meant streamlined in the sense of 'optimise for prayer-generation, other stuff does not matter because it is not the purpose of this thing'. I mean, find the idea that prayer-cattle even has proper slots where a powerup can be plugged in to be counterintuitive. Though I suppose if Exalts are meant to have Do The Impossible as their theme, they fit right in.

 

[Scia]

I meant streamlined in the sense of 'optimise for prayer-generation, other stuff does not matter because it is not the purpose of this thing'. I mean, find the idea that prayer-cattle even has proper slots where a powerup can be plugged in to be counterintuitive. Though I suppose if Exalts are meant to have Do The Impossible as their theme, they fit right in.

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Basically the Exaltation is plugged into the battery part , which has a non standart outlet to get the prayer energy into the worship grid. The creation of Mankind, which is a lessening of the Man of Clay and the creation of the exaltation are millenia appart.

 

[Aleph]

Hmm. That tells two interesting things about the world of Exalted:

1. The world is both finite and all of its values (position in space/time, amount of matter etc. etc.) can be measured in quantable, integer units (or can be accurately converted to such)

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... or alternatively, things exist on continuous spectrums, there are few if any fundamental resolvable integer units that form multiples of five and can be found in-universe, the map is not the territory and the mechanical system is just an abstraction that should not be treated like in-setting laws of physics.

You will find that tremendous misery can be avoided by taking this path, because it allows you to not have to deal with things like willpower being measurable in quantifiable discrete units, which is a self-evidently stupid notion that gives gibberish output if you take it to be the literal truth of how reality works in-setting rather than a much-simplified way of representing a more realistic "some people can knuckle down and force themselves to keep going to a greater extent than others".

 

[vicky_molokh]

... or alternatively, things exist on continuous spectrums, there are few if any fundamental resolvable integer units that form multiples of five and can be found in-universe, the map is not the territory and the mechanical system is just an abstraction that should not be treated like in-setting laws of physics.

You will find that tremendous misery can be avoided by taking this path, because it allows you to not have to deal with things like willpower being measurable in quantifiable discrete units, which is a self-evidently stupid notion that gives gibberish output if you take it to be the literal truth of how reality works in-setting rather than a much-simplified way of representing a more realistic "some people can knuckle down and force themselves to keep going to a greater extent than others".

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You can't precisely calculate the future of a world in a finite number of finite-'sized' operations if you can artirarily, infinitely and irrationally split any section between two values. Not unless you get something like a superturing calculation device (which I think would be unfair to compare to a mere 'very good calculator'). (I wasn't referring to the traits on the character sheet as the integers or integer-convertible values in this post.)

 

[notthepenguins]

The important bit is that if something without a soul it's possible to determine what will without a doubt happen to something in the future if you've got a good enough calculator to check the equations.

In Exalted the soul let's someone say 'no, that doesn't happen that way,' and the strength of one's soul, one's Essence rating really, gives a rough indication of how loudly they can say that and make it stick.

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Uh, no. The ability to flip the bird to the Loom is a function of the ability to channel Essence to achieve effects, not the soul. The two are not the same.

1. The world is both finite and all of its values (position in space/time, amount of matter etc. etc.) can be measured in quantable, integer units (or can be accurately converted to such)
2. Souls are Black-Box True Random Number Generators.

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No, it doesn't. And not only because Hazard was wrong.

I meant streamlined in the sense of 'optimise for prayer-generation, other stuff does not matter because it is not the purpose of this thing'. I mean, find the idea that prayer-cattle even has proper slots where a powerup can be plugged in to be counterintuitive. Though I suppose if Exalts are meant to have Do The Impossible as their theme, they fit right in.

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There aren't 'slots where a powerup can be plugged in.' That is an analogy one can use, but it is false. Exaltations are designed to attach to beings with the two-soul structure. That's all there is to it.

You can't precisely calculate the future of a world in a finite number of finite-'sized' operations if you can artirarily, infinitely and irrationally split any section between two values. Not unless you get something like a superturing calculation device (which I think would be unfair to compare to a mere 'very good calculator'). (I wasn't referring to the traits on the character sheet as the integers or integer-convertible values in this post.)

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"Very good calculator" means Fate itself. If you have access to the machine that determines the results of all things based upon the physical law that it imposes on the world, you can use it to know precisely what will happen based on current phenomena.

Barring the intervention of anything channeling Essence, which will distort its predictions to a greater or lesser degree.

 

[beowolf]

I meant streamlined in the sense of 'optimise for prayer-generation, other stuff does not matter because it is not the purpose of this thing'. I mean, find the idea that prayer-cattle even has proper slots where a powerup can be plugged in to be counterintuitive. Though I suppose if Exalts are meant to have Do The Impossible as their theme, they fit right in.

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Ok, so, this is technically headcanon because I've never seen it stated anywhere, but as I understand it, what happened is that Autochthon designed the Exaltations to, among other things, take his power of Innovation and Improvement, plug it into an energy source, and use the energy flavored with the Essence of Improvement to make it better at making energy. Then he added his own fatal disease in order to make it possible to kill his equals, and used his allies to give actual themes for the new Exalts to Improve along.
Also, remember that his particular version of Innovation means "making something that didn't exist before, which now does, so he can do it again". This let him take something that doesn't really have a slot to plug anything into, and jury-rig a modification that can be jammed into where it sends its product out. I'm not sure of the technical term that would be used in a machine, but to put it simply, a Exaltation can fit in the human soul because it was designed afterwards to fit in the soul's Outflow Port.

 

[Aleph]

You can't precisely calculate the future of a world in a finite number of finite-'sized' operations if you can artirarily, infinitely and irrationally split any section between two values. Not unless you get something like a superturing calculation device (which I think would be unfair to compare to a mere 'very good calculator'). (I wasn't referring to the traits on the character sheet as the integers or integer-convertible values in this post.)

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That's cool. As far as I understand the functioning of Fate, it's also irrelevant, because the Loom as I read it doesn't predict. It guides. The reason you can tell what's going to happen in the future isn't because it's doing statistical modelling of all possible states, it's because it's actively imposing consistent laws of reality on formless Chaos and nudging events to fit a pre-defined plan. The reason you can prophecise that Edith Goingtobeveryrich the stablehand's daughter will come into great wealth and statute is because she has a Destiny subroutine in the Loom nudging events to line up so that the nobleman's son Stanley Mchorseriderfetish comes into contact with her in a situation that raises the odds of him falling for her on sight to be as good as they can possibly get. Free will still comes into play, but the Loom is pretty good at nudging puny essenceless mortals, especially if it has considerable time to work.

The reason it can't do it perfectly, of course, is because Exalts and other powerful Essence-users can nudge back. Harder.

 

[vicky_molokh]

That's cool. As far as I understand the functioning of Fate, it's also irrelevant, because the Loom as I read it doesn't predict. It guides. The reason you can tell what's going to happen in the future isn't because it's doing statistical modelling of all possible states, it's because it's actively imposing consistent laws of reality on formless Chaos and nudging events to fit a pre-defined plan. The reason you can prophecise that Edith Goingtobeveryrich the stablehand's daughter will come into great wealth and statute is because she has a Destiny subroutine in the Loom nudging events to line up so that the nobleman's son Stanley Mchorseriderfetish comes into contact with her in a situation that raises the odds of him falling for her on sight to be as good as they can possibly get. Free will still comes into play, but the Loom is pretty good at nudging puny essenceless mortals, especially if it has considerable time to work.

The reason it can't do it perfectly, of course, is because Exalts and other powerful Essence-users can nudge back. Harder.

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That . . . actually sounds like an altogether different issue than the "everything can be predicted precisely with a big enough calculator; souls ruin those predictions" --> "the world is finitely calculable; souls are blackbox true RNGs". Though @notthepenguins has posted above that the premise is wrong, so the conclusion

As for Loom-nudging being countered real hard by Essence, I guess that's where Integer-Protecting Prana comes in (if one wants to nosell it completely), since Astrology/Fate-hacks are considered Shaping. That being said, I haven't read Sidereals and don't know much about how the fate machine works and all that.

 

[Kaiya]

That . . . actually sounds like an altogether different issue than the "everything can be predicted precisely with a big enough calculator; souls ruin those predictions" --> "the world is finitely calculable; souls are blackbox true RNGs". Though @notthepenguins has posted above that the premise is wrong, so the conclusion

As for Loom-nudging being countered real hard by Essence, I guess that's where Integer-Protecting Prana comes in (if one wants to nosell it completely), since Astrology/Fate-hacks are considered Shaping. That being said, I haven't read Sidereals and don't know much about how the fate machine works and all that.

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No, it's that Essence is inherently unpredictable. Essence no-sells the Loom's attempts to predict it like that. Ikina Kosaku, Dawn Caste Swordsman, is predicted to die when he walks into the den of the Great Calah's 40 Thieves. He doesn't, because he burns Essence like crazy and destroys them all. Essence isn't predictable by Fate, it's a spanner in the works. At least, that's how it was in 2E. I dunno how much 3E is gonna go into that.

Also, Sidereals is criminally vague on how they influence Fate. You can write Destinies, but not actually nudge and fix Fate Errors. There's no system for it. It's very annoying.

 

[notthepenguins]

No, it's that Essence is inherently unpredictable. Essence no-sells the Loom's attempts to predict it like that. Ikina Kosaku, Dawn Caste Swordsman, is predicted to die when he walks into the den of the Great Calah's 40 Thieves. He doesn't, because he burns Essence like crazy and destroys them all. Essence isn't predictable by Fate, it's a spanner in the works. At least, that's how it was in 2E. I dunno how much 3E is gonna go into that.

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Well, yes, but the invocation of Essence on its own doesn't destroy predictions; something like an Excellency is not going to stretch predictive ability much because it's still roughly in line with what you were gonna do, while, say, a single use of Guarding Star Tactics to defend an army will warp all sorts of destinies, because the odds of those thousand people surviving that falling meteor were nonexistent.