Let's say some First-Age-that-Never-Ended artifact (from a different Shard, whatever) is used to make a perfect copy of an individual. She's scanned, all of her memories, manners, all the finest elemental bits of which she consists (including whatever takes place of brain neurons in Exalted). Then a new body is built from scratch in accordance to those scans, including all the neuron-equivalents. What happens with the new body's souls when its brain is started? Does it spawn a new Po from itself? Does the Well of Souls reflexively produce an identical Hun that immediately jumps into the body and copies all the memories from the brain in a split second? If the second Hun is non-identical, how is it affected by being overwritten with personality traits that don't match the sort of traits it would develop 'in the wild'?
I'd honestly imagine that a Po and Hun Soul are both drawn from the Well of Souls. The Po gets imprinted with all the memories, but (thanks to there being a different Hun) the guy himself is very mentally and emotionally confused, as all his memories from before don't quite match up to who he is now, in some way he really doesn't understand. He looks the same, and if he forces himself to, he'll act the same. But when he's not focused on being the same, his unconscious reactions, movements, and mannerisms have changed. He doesn't understand why, and when he notices this he's incredibly confused. Those who knew the original are also creeped out, since here's this identical guy who shares their important memories, but everything from the way he acts to how he reacts and thinks is just different, in so many small ways as to be completely unnerving,
 
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If the Hun is not sufficient to 'contain' the self, then what happens to people whose Po becomes not what it was through some natural occurrance. For instance, saying this from something I've seen firsthand IRL: after a stroke, a person's emotional functions got quite haywire. Hun-related stuff was only damaged (e.g. somewhat worsened short-term/operational memory, lowered mental attributes) yet retained (long-term memory OK, sense of self OK, habits retained, problem-solving skills damaged but retained), while the Po-related stuff was replaced with something that doesn't even look like a human Po (e.g. the actual emotional reaction to all things positive is crying). Does such a person count as metaphysically dead and reincarnated/resurrected? I think it shouldn't.

Well, obviously biology and medicine works differently in Exalted (Even if the practical results are similar, clearly the underneath logic is different. Is actually something i like to speculate about)

That said, a person that suffers brain damage, or others injuries that lead to a personality change, still has his soul intact. Is the organs whose function is to interface the soul and the body (Something akin to Descartes idea of the pineal gland) what is damaged, and is something that can be repaired with the proper treatment.

WARNING: this question is intended to explore the metaphysics of Creation, and is purely hypothetical. It is not meant to imply that such a technology is actually possible. Please do not remove this warning when quoting in order to avoid misleading other forumites if they read your reply.
Let's say some First-Age-that-Never-Ended artifact (from a different Shard, whatever) is used to make a perfect copy of an individual. She's scanned, all of her memories, manners, all the finest elemental bits of which she consists (including whatever takes place of brain neurons in Exalted). Then a new body is built from scratch in accordance to those scans, including all the neuron-equivalents. What happens with the new body's souls when its brain is started? Does it spawn a new Po from itself? Does the Well of Souls reflexively produce an identical Hun that immediately jumps into the body and copies all the memories from the brain in a split second? If the second Hun is non-identical, how is it affected by being overwritten with personality traits that don't match the sort of traits it would develop 'in the wild'?

I don't think you can copy the personality and memories making a body; Those are stored in the Po and hun. The body just have some way to link with the souls. Thus, any artificial body you create is innanimate, since it doesn't have souls.

(Or maybe the new body is recognized by lethe as a newborn and it sends fresh souls there, in which case you have an adult looking baby)

(That's how i see it, at least)

If the Po is the body's soul, the what happens when someone goes body-hopping (without dying first)? Also, what happens to the sleeping body of someone with a wandering Po? What do Alchemicals have in their Po slot, given that they're made from many souls?

I don't know any way to go body hopping in Exalted. Someone please correct me if i am wrong.

And Alchemicals are made from a single Hun-Po pair. They can retain memories from all the past lives of that pair, though. (And indeed, the closest you can get to true resurrection in Exalted is an Alchemical that is born with a personality similar to one of her past lives, and that retains large part of the memories of that life)
 
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The only method I can think of is that Artifact which writes your memories into your Exaltation, and then when your next incarnation Exalts, it tries to overwrite their mind with your one, crushing their mind and leaving them thinking that they're you.

(And I can't even remember how canon it is.)

I'm broadly okay with that, because a) it makes you an absolutely fucking awful monster to do that, b) it's 'just' brainwashing which means if they ever get hit with a Charm which frees them of Illusions, they're free of it, and c) did I mention that it makes you the villain and reduces you down to E2, and d) you lose the Artifact N/A when this happens.

I can't think of any way to keep hun-memories post-Lethe.
There is also a NA Artefact from the Forrest Witches, which are Dragonblooded meeting Transhuman Matrix done via Borgstrome. Notably it , unless they messed it up for the Second Edition. Does not grant you a celestial exaltation and at its strongest can make you a god blooded dragonblooded upon reincarnation.

Edit: And Sideraled.
 
Basically, I'm the type of person who thinks that fixing your mistakes is a worthy goal for a campaign, and that making some very human goals So Impossible You Shouldn't Even Try undermines a lot of character arcs.
Exalted is largely on board with that. It denies the chance to do this with resurrection, to ensure that your mistakes have teeth. No Takebacks doesn't mean you can't fix your mistakes, only that you can't undo them; fixing a mistake means reacting to the consequences of what you've done, not hitting some cosmic retcon button.

Beyond that, you are basically just saying you want these kinds of stories because they suit your desires. That's fine. Tell the stories that you want to at your table.

Just stop saying the game as a whole should change to fit your desires. No, Exalted would not be better if resurrection were possible. Your game, hypothetical or otherwise, would be better for you if resurrection were possible.
If the Hun is not sufficient to 'contain' the self, then what happens to people whose Po becomes not what it was through some natural occurrance. For instance, saying this from something I've seen firsthand IRL: after a stroke, a person's emotional functions got quite haywire. Hun-related stuff was only damaged (e.g. somewhat worsened short-term/operational memory, lowered mental attributes) yet retained (long-term memory OK, sense of self OK, habits retained, problem-solving skills damaged but retained), while the Po-related stuff was replaced with something that doesn't even look like a human Po (e.g. the actual emotional reaction to all things positive is crying). Does such a person count as metaphysically dead and reincarnated/resurrected? I think it shouldn't.
No, because their soul is still in perfect working order, but the brain is acting as a faulty translator. They're not dead, they've just got something akin to a speech impediment. Now, if you take that a step further and start inflicting damage directly on someone's soul, then things get murky.
If the Po is the body's soul, the what happens when someone goes body-hopping (without dying first)? Also, what happens to the sleeping body of someone with a wandering Po? What do Alchemicals have in their Po slot, given that they're made from many souls?
The first would depend a lot on the method of body-hopping, but off the top of my head I would presume you'd still be metaphysically tethered to your original souls. The second I don't know, 'wandering Po' is a new one on me. In the latter, Alchemicals aren't made from many souls, they're made from a single soul that demonstrates heroism through many lifetimes. Presumably, they get a new Po soul as well, a blank slate influenced by the collective memories of their Hun, but which isn't quite the same person as whoever came before.
 
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I'd honestly imagine that a Po and Hun Soul are both drawn from the Well of Souls. The Po gets imprinted with all the memories, but (thanks to there being a different Hun) the guy himself is very mentally and emotionally confused, as all his memories from before don't quite match up to who he is now, in some way he really doesn't understand. He looks the same, and if he forces himself to, he'll act the same. But when he's not focused on being the same, his unconscious reactions, movements, and mannerisms have changed. He doesn't understand why, and when he notices this he's incredibly confused. Those who knew the original are also creeped out, since here's this identical guy who shares their important memories, but everything from the way he acts to how he reacts and thinks is just different, in so many small ways as to be completely unnerving,
That . . . looks interesting and weird.
I mean, you overwrite all the memories, habits, mannerisms, likes/dislikes/Inimacies, skills (both the more coscious lobe-skills and the more internalised hypothalamus-skills), reflexes etc., so the question is what else remains to be different?

Well, obviously biology and medicine works differently in Exalted (Even if the practical results are similar, clearly the underneath logic is different. Is actually something i like to speculate about)

That said, a person that suffers brain damage, or others injuries that lead to a personality change, still has his soul intact. Is the organs whose function is to interface the soul and the body (Something akin to Descartes idea of the pineal gland) what is damaged, and is something that can be repaired with the proper treatment.

I don't think you can't copy the personality and memories making a body; Those are stored in the Po and hun. The body just have some way to link with the souls.

(That's how i see it, at least)
No, because their soul is still in perfect working order, but the brain is acting as a faulty translator. They're not dead, they've just got something akin to a speech impediment.
If we go with Descartes idea, then we have to contend that it's possible to have a body that has emotions and reflexes, but lacks a soul. The descartian view of the soul is the reason why his followers advocated ignoring the pain of vivisected animals - because hey, they do not have souls, so it's not like those phenomena matter. Just something to consider.
However, another interesting thing to explore as a consequences of your idea of metaphysics:
If you say that brain damage or other trauma causing a personality change is a result from a change in the body but not the souls, then we have some interesting weirdness. For instance, a veteran comes back home from a war, suffers PTSD until his death, then raises as a ghost and has his PTSD 'healed'. Ditto someone suffering cliché retrograde amnesia - "You must die to achieve total recall!". Or someone who got scared of a horse in childhood and so grew up a coward with an extra phobia and/or irrational hatred of horses. Ghosted? Get brave and sane again!
 
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Perhaps '90%' is an overestimation, but it was largely based on the recommendation to take 1e Core, Games of Divinity and Scavenger Sons as factual and the other stuff as not so much, notably with a negative view of the Compasses, the Books of Sorcery, and of the Scrolls, and Masters of Jade (which seems to be 1e-core-compliant, actually!), and the Dreams, and the Glories (at least the UCS one), and the Broken Crane, and the Return of Her Redness. That seems like a large rejection list (some of it explicit, some implied).

Because most of that is badly executed retreads of the original material for fluff, or badly executed mechanics. 2E has exceptionally little in new setting material / content - White Wolf wasted an entire edition rewriting and padding out stuff they already had, with badly instructed freelancers writing for a line developer who didn't give a fuck.

You might have a point if Exalted 2 was this massively different retake on the setting with new material everywhere which the old Exalted 1 fanbase rejected, but, really, no. That's Exalted 3. There have only been two incarnations of the setting up to now, not three.
 
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That . . . looks interesting and weird.
I mean, you overwrite all the memories, habits, mannerisms, likes/dislikes/Inimacies, skills (both the more coscious lobe-skills and the more internalised hypothalamus-skills), reflexes etc., so the question is what else remains to be different?
The fact that his Soul is different. I'd posit that Lethe hasn't made new Souls since the First Age, when the population was almost ten times the size of creation now. (This is probably an overestimation and exaggeration, but still I doubt the Age of Sorrows has gotten close to the population of the High First Age.)

From what I've gleaned in this thread, the Hun Souls are not erased as closely as the Po souls, which becomes the 'Nature' part of the person, whilst the Po soul is completely or almost completely erased between incarnations, and becomes the 'Nurture' part of the man.

So when you copy someone's mind and body, creating a new person and getting new souls for it, the Po soul keeps all the 'Nurture' part of the equation. But the 'Nature' part of the equation, though somewhat kept back by the original 'Nature' left over from the previous Hun, has been changed drastically, causing a huge shift in personality.
 
For instance, a veteran comes back home from a war, suffers PTSD until his death, then raises as a ghost and has his PTSD 'healed'. Ditto someone suffering cliché retrograde amnesia - "You must die to achieve total recall!". Or someone who got scared of a horse in childhood and so grew up a coward with an extra phobia and/or irrational hatred of horses. Ghosted? Get brave and sane again!
These are all entirely possible, actually. Thing is, it's equally possible that the damage to their mind leaves echoes in their soul, because it shaped their sense of who they are.

Ghosts, in general, are weird. This is important: A ghost is not a perfect copy of who the person was in life. It's a distorted echo of who they once were, twisted and warped by the traumatic event of their death, the metaphysical wrench of denying their harmonious place in the cycle of reincarnation and their experiences in the Underworld, a shadow-realm forged from the nightmare-body of the Neverborn's lingering death-agonies. A ghost is a monster desperately clinging to the idea of who they were, because the dim flames of remembered Passions are all that grants them a semblance of life.
 
First:
If the Hun is not sufficient to 'contain' the self, then what happens to people whose Po becomes not what it was through some natural occurrance. For instance, saying this from something I've seen firsthand IRL: after a stroke, a person's emotional functions got quite haywire. Hun-related stuff was only damaged (e.g. somewhat worsened short-term/operational memory, lowered mental attributes) yet retained (long-term memory OK, sense of self OK, habits retained, problem-solving skills damaged but retained), while the Po-related stuff was replaced with something that doesn't even look like a human Po (e.g. the actual emotional reaction to all things positive is crying). Does such a person count as metaphysically dead and reincarnated/resurrected? I think it shouldn't.

The Po would not have been directly damaged by the event, although it's now getting erroneous messages from the body that it has to figure out how to respond to. It may eventually, or it may not, but the Po remains fundamentally human, as it inhabits and attends a human body.

Second:
If the Po is the body's soul, the what happens when someone goes body-hopping (without dying first)? Also, what happens to the sleeping body of someone with a wandering Po? What do Alchemicals have in their Po slot, given that they're made from many souls?

Bad things, that's what. Also, Alchemicals are made of two souls (the Hun and the Po) and an Exaltation. Exalts are metaphysically weird compared to mortals because they've got a third soul shoved into Po soul that supplies them with oodles and oodles of supernatural power.

Third:
A question largely inspired by the p-zombie argument. (Yes, I know the p-zombie argument is loaded in favour of trying to prove dualism, but in Exalted, dualism is a fact.)

I'm not familiar with this argument.

WARNING: this question is intended to explore the metaphysics of Creation, and is purely hypothetical. It is not meant to imply that such a technology is actually possible. Please do not remove this warning when quoting in order to avoid misleading other forumites if they read your reply.
Let's say some First-Age-that-Never-Ended artifact (from a different Shard, whatever) is used to make a perfect copy of an individual. She's scanned, all of her memories, manners, all the finest elemental bits of which she consists (including whatever takes place of brain neurons in Exalted). Then a new body is built from scratch in accordance to those scans, including all the neuron-equivalents.

Those neuron equivalents are neurons. Aside from the metaphysical weirdness and the replacement of quantum physics by motonic physics Creation runs more or less on the same principles in conclusion as real life does. Which means that yes, when the least god of a kiln sings to the least gods of a pile of bricks getting baked the atoms and molecules in the clay react as normal. Usually.

Sometimes the chorus of least brick gods screw up and don't sing the proper reply and weirdness ensues, like getting a pile of sand instead of bricks.

What happens with the new body's souls when its brain is started? Does it spawn a new Po from itself? Does the Well of Souls reflexively produce an identical Hun that immediately jumps into the body and copies all the memories from the brain in a split second? If the second Hun is non-identical, how is it affected by being overwritten with personality traits that don't match the sort of traits it would develop 'in the wild'?

Ah, well. You see, the thing is that if you get all the relevant bits, you get all the relevant bits. Including things like the appropriate soul structure. Of course, this requires getting everything right, and well, for an idea of how delicate a touch you need for that, try to weave a piece of cloth from a single string of cellulose, blindfolded without any assistance of any kind and on touch alone.
 
Hmm.

I was under the impression that while it's clear that hun souls come from the Well of Souls and reincarnate, the same isn't true for pos. In Creation (as opposed to the unnatural hack of Autochthonia) pos remain with the body after death, protecting the corpse. They then can rise as a hungry ghost, but I thought that if they don't rise, they instead dissipate and their essence returns to the natural flows of the world, in the same way that animal souls do (because the human po is much more like the soul of an animal).

So you don't get someone reincarnating with the same hun and po outside of Autochthonia, because in Creation every po lives only once.
 
Hmm.

I was under the impression that while it's clear that hun souls come from the Well of Souls and reincarnate, the same isn't true for pos. In Creation (as opposed to the unnatural hack of Autochthonia) pos remain with the body after death, protecting the corpse. They then can rise as a hungry ghost, but I thought that if they don't rise, they instead dissipate and their essence returns to the natural flows of the world, in the same way that animal souls do (because the human po is much more like the soul of an animal).

So you don't get someone reincarnating with the same hun and po outside of Autochthonia, because in Creation every po lives only once.
Huh, really? I thought I read something that said Po souls also went through Lethe.

Don't remember now, and it could have just been mis -remembering.
 
Because most of that is badly executed retreads of the original material for fluff, or badly executed mechanics. 2E has exceptionally little in new setting material / content - White Wolf wasted an entire edition rewriting and padding out stuff they already had, with badly instructed freelancers writing for a line developer who didn't give a fuck.

You might have a point if Exalted 2 was this massively different retake on the setting with new material everywhere which the old Exalted 1 fanbase rejected, but, really, no. That's Exalted 3. There have only been two incarnations of the setting up to now, not three.
I think your statement actually doesn't contradict my observation, in fact it confirms it: you admit to consider most of the pre-3e fluff as badly executed; the only nuance is that you call the approved bits original material, even though apparently many of the things that are criticised (list of examples already posted somewhere on page X of this thread) were part of the books that were praised as the good original material.
But if most of the setting is so bad, and even the Scavenger Sons (and to some extent Core 1e) can't follow the themes of the setting that people praise, I wonder why people don't just grab the themes and run off with them to make a setting of their own, without all the negative baggage. I can understand making a few minor fixes to a slightly flawed setting; I can understand salvaging good themes and ideas from a very flawed/bad setting; I find the idea of taking a very very flawed (in the GM/player's opinion) setting (particularly one linked to a flawed system), making lots of lots of (occasionally incomplete and/or difficult) fixes (that vary greatly from party to party) and seeing it as something better than building a setting to fit the desired theme from the ground up without having to deal with legacy flaws.

The fact that his Soul is different.
That's actually an extremely ambiguous answer, because I was specifically trying to figure out what difference do souls make on a mind-mechanical level, because you seem to be saying that they make a difference even when all the mind-mechanical bits have been set correctly.

From what I've gleaned in this thread, the Hun Souls are not erased as closely as the Po souls, which becomes the 'Nature' part of the person, whilst the Po soul is completely or almost completely erased between incarnations, and becomes the 'Nurture' part of the man.

So when you copy someone's mind and body, creating a new person and getting new souls for it, the Po soul keeps all the 'Nurture' part of the equation. But the 'Nature' part of the equation, though somewhat kept back by the original 'Nature' left over from the previous Hun, has been changed drastically, causing a huge shift in personality.
The nature/nurture dichotomy is misleading in the first place, but even so, I would expect those two to be swapped.

I'm not familiar with this argument.
P-zombies. (Warning: long, complex concept.)
Ghosts, in general, are weird. This is important: A ghost is not a perfect copy of who the person was in life. It's a distorted echo of who they once were, twisted and warped by the traumatic event of their death, the metaphysical wrench of denying their harmonious place in the cycle of reincarnation and their experiences in the Underworld, a shadow-realm forged from the nightmare-body of the Neverborn's lingering death-agonies. A ghost is a monster desperately clinging to the idea of who they were, because the dim flames of remembered Passions are all that grants them a semblance of life.
Those neuron equivalents are neurons. Aside from the metaphysical weirdness and the replacement of quantum physics by motonic physics Creation runs more or less on the same principles in conclusion as real life does. Which means that yes, when the least god of a kiln sings to the least gods of a pile of bricks getting baked the atoms and molecules in the clay react as normal. Usually.

Sometimes the chorus of least brick gods screw up and don't sing the proper reply and weirdness ensues, like getting a pile of sand instead of bricks.

Ah, well. You see, the thing is that if you get all the relevant bits, you get all the relevant bits. Including things like the appropriate soul structure. Of course, this requires getting everything right, and well, for an idea of how delicate a touch you need for that, try to weave a piece of cloth from a single string of cellulose, blindfolded without any assistance of any kind and on touch alone.
Okay, so I think these paragraphs indicate that there's a bit of metaphysical basics to be answered before going further.
If aside from the metaphysics, neurons are neurons etc., then let's figure out how a mind works in Exalted. If neurons work as in our world, and souls are a distorted echo of a person, that actually makes things comprehensible using concepts that are already invented. Let's see . . .
If neurons work as in our world, that means that they are the medium on which a mind 'runs' (so we don't have to deal with difficulties like emotions residing in the heart and the liver, or like the uterus swimming through the body and attacking the brain causing weird behaviour). And the souls are connected to the body, and can feed it some information (such as the Sun Soul feeding its memories to the mind, so the mind gains five Favoured and five Caste Skills real fast), and likewise the mind of a body can feed information to the soul (thus forming Passions, for example). But the souls don't carry all the information that needs to be compiled in order to build a full mind-copy, right? That's why even on the first three days of their unlife, Ghosts are what Ghosts are, right? (I must admit I have read very little on Ghosts and the Ghostbloods, but the three-day rule is something I remember.)
If that is so, then resurrection is impossible without somehow getting the missing information - the part of the mind that is encoded in the brain but isn't copied by the souls neither throughout life nor during death. OTOH, if you ever gain the ability to produce a full mindscan image (something that Exalted probably can't do until a new Solar Deliberative gets someone with Medicine 10, Intelligence 10), and you learn how to produce a proper medium that is capable of 'running' such a mindscan image (which probably is somehow related to 3e's perfect simulacrum/homunculus/copy-body Charm), then suddenly souls become irrelevant. Well, except it takes souls to perform Charms and Spells, because Essence. Right? (Probably not, as the simulacrum apparently can do Charms.)
 
If that is so, then resurrection is impossible without somehow getting the missing information - the part of the mind that is encoded in the brain but isn't copied by the souls neither throughout life nor during death. OTOH, if you ever gain the ability to produce a full mindscan image (something that Exalted probably can't do until a new Solar Deliberative gets someone with Medicine 10, Intelligence 10), and you learn how to produce a proper medium that is capable of 'running' such a mindscan image (which probably is somehow related to 3e's perfect simulacrum/homunculus/copy-body Charm), then suddenly souls become irrelevant. Well, except it takes souls to perform Charms and Spells, because Essence. Right? (Probably not, as the simulacrum apparently can do Charms.)

This kind of thing is why you shouldn't confuse real world physics and Exalted physics*. You don't use your neurons to think here. You use your Hun.

If you can do a perfect mindscan of the brain, the souls still matter because you are thinking with your Hun. Your brain is the tool that the hun uses to interact with the world. If you make a copy of that tool, that is obviouly not a copy of the person; The person is in the unique Hun-Po compounded soul, and is lost when it breaks. And even if you rejoin the same two souls toghether (Like the Ewer does) the result will be similar but not the same.

*Medicine in Exalted probably works in something much more similar to the Four temperaments theory than to anything resembling real biology. That's how you can justify why your acupunture actally works.
 
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Also, thinking on it, I'd say death probably damages the Po. The pain of being forcibly separated from it's lower part and from it's body damage it to the very core, a fault that can't be cured without setting it back to the 'factory default', which is done when the Soul enters Lethe.
 
This kind of thing is why you shouldn't confuse real world physics and Exalted physics*. You don't use your neurons to think here. You use your Hun.

If you can do a perfect mindscan of the brain, the souls still matter because you are thinking with your Hun. Your brain is the tool that the hun uses to interact with the world. If you make a copy of that tool, that is obviouly not a copy of the person; The person is in the unique Hun-Po compounded soul, and is lost when it breaks. And even if you rejoin the same two souls toghether (Like the Ewer does) the result will be similar but not the same.

*Medicine in Exalted probably works in something much more similar to the Four temperaments theory than to anything resembling real biology. That's why you can justify how your acupunture actally works.
Either "neuron equivalents are neurons", or the thinking is done by non-neurons (e.g. by some organs of the Hun and Po) and neurons are not neurons. Can't have it both ways.
If the mind runs on the trio of Hun, Po, and optionally the Sun Soul, that's certainly a viable alternative (though I wonder what is the function of the brain in this world, and what isn't; e.g. why does imbibing alcohol cause the Hun to become drunk* if all the thinking is executed on the Hun/Po duo, and the brain is just an interface that executes the decisions already taken by Hun/Po). But so far I don't think I understand which of the alternatives is the true one in Exalted.

* == Incidentally, IIRC Lensemen had a weird ability that made the mind maintain full clarity no matter what happens to the body, so e.g. getting drunk or having a stroke or getting hit over the head etc. had no effect on such minds. Or maybe not Lensemen. But the concept was cool, and it's something that may be a good Mutation or Permanent Charm for Exalted.
 
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I think your statement actually doesn't contradict my observation, in fact it confirms it: you admit to consider most of the pre-3e fluff as badly executed; the only nuance is that you call the approved bits original material, even though apparently many of the things that are criticised (list of examples already posted somewhere on page X of this thread) were part of the books that were praised as the good original material.
Um, no. Chung is saying most of 2e is badly executed because it is a poor retread of 1e. 1e does have some dumb bits, yeah, but the ratio of bad to good is very different.
Either "neuron equivalents are neurons", or the thinking is done by non-neurons (e.g. by some organs of the Hun and Po) and neurons are not neurons. Can't have it both ways.
If the mind runs on the trio of Hun, Po, and optionally the Sun Soul, that's certainly a viable alternative (though I wonder what is the function of the brain in this world, and what isn't). But so far I don't think I understand which of the alternatives is the true one in Exalted.
The simple truth is there is no clear answer. Exalted never really saw the need to define how the mind works biologically. Hazard says neurons are neurons, Broken25 says the brain is simply a tool for the thinky bits of the soul to interact with the world. Which is right? Who knows, the books don't say.
 
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If the mind runs on the trio of Hun, Po, and optionally the Sun Soul, that's certainly a viable alternative (though I wonder what is the function of the brain in this world, and what isn't). But so far I don't think I understand which of the alternatives is the true one in Exalted.

Well, there isn't conclusive evidence either way.

I still think is much more coherent if the souls do the actual thinking and the brain (or other organs) is the interface that allows to communicate the souls with the body (And ocasionally, if they work faultily, mistake the orders that come from the soul)

(After all, if the brain can think and feel by itself, why the hell do you need a soul?)
 
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... why are you both taking a binary perspective?

To talk about a person being "only their souls" or "only their physical brain" is self-evidently nonsense in Exalted. We know that children born missing a po are stillborn, and that the hun only attaches at first breath. We also know that people still suffer brain damage, and that neither hun nor po encompass the whole person - and separated, they're still different. We know that the souls of dragon kings are very similar to gods, but because they dwell inside flesh, they are different in meaningful ways.

So it's pretty obvious that the person is hun, po and flesh combined. Just as the Exaltation of the Dragonblooded and the Alchemicals lies in their flesh, so too is the self partly born of the flesh. If the souls are a fluid, then the flesh is a container which gives them form and purpose. And if you remove one element from this three-part union or damage it, something is going to go wrong.
 
Okay, so I think these paragraphs indicate that there's a bit of metaphysical basics to be answered before going further.
If aside from the metaphysics, neurons are neurons etc., then let's figure out how a mind works in Exalted. If neurons work as in our world, and souls are a distorted echo of a person, that actually makes things comprehensible using concepts that are already invented. Let's see . . .

Souls aren't a distorted echo of a person. Ghosts are a distorted echo of a person because they're missing a few rather important pieces, but keep in mind that all spirits are souls which are their own bodies. Ghosts are weird because ghosts should not be capable of existing in the first place.

Rather, a soul is more like a thumbdrive carrying a BIOS for the body that you plug in, and it has due to its design extra room where it stores the developing self programming intelligence. Due to a number of factors the more strongly experienced events get copied along.

If neurons work as in our world, that means that they are the medium on which a mind 'runs' (so we don't have to deal with difficulties like emotions residing in the heart and the liver, or like the uterus swimming through the body and attacking the brain causing weird behaviour).

Both these things can actually happen, although by then we're probably talking about some terrifying magical diseases. That does not mean you should make the mistake of presuming that the essence flows through the heart and the liver can't affect the essence flows in your brain and as such your emotions.

And the souls are connected to the body, and can feed it some information (such as the Sun Soul feeding its memories to the mind, so the mind gains five Favoured and five Caste Skills real fast), and likewise the mind of a body can feed information to the soul (thus forming Passions, for example).

Not so much feeding it information as an exchange of information occurring as life progresses getting saved due to its apparent utility.

But the souls don't carry all the information that needs to be compiled in order to build a full mind-copy, right? That's why even on the first three days of their unlife, Ghosts are what Ghosts are, right? (I must admit I have read very little on Ghosts and the Ghostbloods, but the three-day rule is something I remember.)

Mostly true. The Hun and the Po both carry a lot of the information needed for a full mind copy, but without them working in concert in a living body you inherently lose some critical information. The three day rule is more about the links between hun and po fading over time rather than breaking immediately, which is how things normally go.

If that is so, then resurrection is impossible without somehow getting the missing information - the part of the mind that is encoded in the brain but isn't copied by the souls neither throughout life nor during death. OTOH, if you ever gain the ability to produce a full mindscan image (something that Exalted probably can't do until a new Solar Deliberative gets someone with Medicine 10, Intelligence 10), and you learn how to produce a proper medium that is capable of 'running' such a mindscan image (which probably is somehow related to 3e's perfect simulacrum/homunculus/copy-body Charm), then suddenly souls become irrelevant. Well, except it takes souls to perform Charms and Spells, because Essence. Right? (Probably not, as the simulacrum apparently can do Charms.)

Ah, that homunculus is such a brilliant piece that the Exalt that made it is actually running it on their own soul. Also, the First Age had brilliant doctors with Medicine and Intelligence 10 and even they couldn't do it. There's so much lost of the First Age that some major underpinning concepts and laws of Creation and existence have to be rediscovered before they can come even close to equaling the grandeur of the First Age.

Also, souls are always needed. Without it the best you can get is a well programmed robot that can't adapt its programming.

*Medicine in Exalted probably works in something much more similar to the Four temperaments theory than to anything resembling real biology. That's why you can justify how your acupunture actally works.

Ehm, no? Modern medicine will work just as well in Creation as it does here. It's just that a properly skilled doctor in Creation probably knows the proper procedures for realigning a person's essence pathways and regain the proper balance by sticking some needles in, which also works. And, of course, modern medicine has no answer to flat out magical diseases that have no internally identifiable cause.
 
Um, no. Chung is saying most of 2e is badly executed because it is a poor retread of 1e. 1e does have some dumb bits, yeah, but the ratio of bad to good is very different.
But he also said that 1e and 2e are essentially the same setting. Anyway, "the ratio of bad to good is very [bad]" basically is the sort of statement that caused me to conclude that there is a strong sentiment in the community to at least reject a large part of the fluff. I don't see where there's a contradiction.
"You dislike X" - "I don't dislike X, it's just that X sucks" sounds like a weird dialogue to me, because the latter bit is pretty much an admission of disliking X. It seems like yet another of those misunderstandings that go on and on for pages because there's some sort of fundamental difference in the way you/Chung/etc. and I look at things. I'm sorry. I don't know how to dispel the misunderstanding if that's it.

I still think is much more coherent if the Souls do the actual thinking and the brain (Or other organs) is the interface that allows to communicate the souls with the body (And ocasionally, if they work faultily, mistake the orders that come from the soul)
I think the 'mistaken orders' clause opens a can of worms, in the form of giving the body too much ability to interpret orders. It's one thing for a body to misinterpret the order to position a hand 12° to the right from its current position (Dex penalty). It's totally another for a body to fully interpret the order of, say, 'this is an Wind Caste assassin! stay away!' as, say, 'oh, she is hot, Ima go make a pass at er, in a slurred accent but mostly coherent language, and then go to her place for the night' (Int/Wits penalty).
Because of this, I think it's actually 'safer' to have a way for body-affecting stuff to have a direct or directly-translated effect on the mind (including the decision-making process) in order to make things work as intended (e.g. truth serums and alcohol working the way it does in our world).

(After all, if the brain can think and feel by itself, why the hell do you need a soul?)
Oh, there are some ideas, though I feel they might be out of place in Exalted. Perhaps the simplest one is to relegate the soul(s) to a role of byproducts and tools. Souls can be a most-passive metaphysical organ that can be used to manipulate Essence Abilities if you properly train it. Or they could be needed because they're required for Prayer to generate motes, and that's what humans were made for. Souls can also be used as emergency storage tools for the mind, because someone needs all that knowledge to be accessed (e.g. by Lethe, which secretly hoards it etc.) - in that case, the fact that Ghosts can 'run' a mind on themselves is an unforeseen hack or emergent phenomenon that looks even freakier than it did in the canonical depiction of Exalted (in a way, this reminds me of some explanations in SOMA . . . ).
Of course, these are just ideas, and are not meant to be a hypothesis about the canonical state of Exalted.

... why are you both taking a binary perspective?

To talk about a person being "only their souls" or "only their physical brain" is self-evidently nonsense in Exalted. We know that children born missing a po are stillborn, and that the hun only attaches at first breath. We also know that people still suffer brain damage, and that neither hun nor po encompass the whole person - and separated, they're still different. We know that the souls of dragon kings are very similar to gods, but because they dwell inside flesh, they are different in meaningful ways.

So it's pretty obvious that the person is hun, po and flesh combined. Just as the Exaltation of the Dragonblooded and the Alchemicals lies in their flesh, so too is the self partly born of the flesh. If the souls are a fluid, then the flesh is a container which gives them form and purpose. And if you remove one element from this three-part union or damage it, something is going to go wrong.
A trinity of media (Hun, Po, Body), on the sum of which the mind runs, is actually quite a workable system. It gets weird when one considers the way Demon, God, Godblood, and Ghost minds work, though, but I suppose that just requires more work to sort out - maybe God Huns are more advanced versions of Hun or something.
 
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The only method I can think of is that Artifact which writes your memories into your Exaltation, and then when your next incarnation Exalts, it tries to overwrite their mind with your one, crushing their mind and leaving them thinking that they're you.

(And I can't even remember how canon it is.)

I'm broadly okay with that, because a) it makes you an absolutely fucking awful monster to do that, b) it's 'just' brainwashing which means if they ever get hit with a Charm which frees them of Illusions, they're free of it, and c) did I mention that it makes you the villain and reduces you down to E2, and d) you lose the Artifact N/A when this happens.

I can't think of any way to keep hun-memories post-Lethe.

That doesn't sound like an artifact to me so much as Lytek really not doing his job.

Not technically canon, but it was for one of the canon writers games from memory.

That also sounds a lot like what's going on with Misho from Keychain of Creation. If I remember correctly, it was a result of Misho's first age incarnation choosing to sacrifice his ignorance for Solar Circle Sorcery.
 
Ehm, no? Modern medicine will work just as well in Creation as it does here.

Oh, don't have doubts about that. But even if it works, it works in different principles. The reason why rehidratation is the right treatment for cholera is because the person is suffering from an inbalance in her elemental essences, not because she will die from shock if her arterial pressure drops too much.

It may look the same, but there is a difference there. One that normally isn't relevant, but sometimes may come up.
 
That also sounds a lot like what's going on with Misho from Keychain of Creation. If I remember correctly, it was a result of Misho's first age incarnation choosing to sacrifice his ignorance for Solar Circle Sorcery.
I don't think we ever got the explanation on what's the deal with Misho's reincarnation/reappeareance. That particular tale about how Misho learning SCS and its aftermath never spoke about anything related to reincarnation, only how he died. (he tried to conquer death, made a sword that gives its bearer immortality, but died finishing it)
 
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Of course, I also immediately came up with a small setting for such a working - a city where an ancient God-King or powerful spirit enchanted the land so that all who died within its borders where reincarnated there with full memory of their past lives. Which is, as a result, now inhabited largely by a varied collection of madmen each labouring under the weight of multiple lifetimes of psychological trauma and enough memories that they have since become utterly jaded to all but the most outrageous and novel developments.

This sounds kinda like the premise of Dark Souls, minus a lot of the grimdark.
 
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