When I asked if you could describe the themes, I meant describe the themes. Those aren't themes.
Really? They seem like they come up often enough...
Really, though, those are the things that came to mind when I thought of "things in Exalted I like". I'm sick at the moment, though, so my thoughts probably aren't as coherent as they could be.
 
Really? They seem like they come up often enough...
Really, though, those are the things that came to mind when I thought of "things in Exalted I like". I'm sick at the moment, though, so my thoughts probably aren't as coherent as they could be.

There's a difference between setting elements and themes. You keep listing setting elements.

I can actually pick one theme out of the stuff you listed there, to be fair. Or that can be interpreted as a theme:

Very Powerful Entities that are still, for good and bad, Human
 
If you would expound the bits you like in common?
Loads. But a few off the top of my head; the unique weirdness of the Hells. The finality of the consequences - dead is dead, shattered is shattered, fallen is fallen. The themes of decayed magnificence and grandeur; of beauty and divine splendour cannibalised and reworked into lesser things. The cool and unique metabiology and evolution cycles of spiritual entities (evolution cycles of demons and angels in KSBD; Primordial soul hierarchies in Exalted). The meshing of brutality and beauty. The cynicism lurking just below the surface elements.
 
Are you familiar with Eclipse Phase? I believe that Eclipse Phase has many characteristics similar to what you like about Exalted albeit viewed through a technological rather than magical paradigm.
 
There's a difference between setting elements and themes. You keep listing setting elements.

I can actually pick one theme out of the stuff you listed there, to be fair. Or that can be interpreted as a theme:
Thanks. Sorry, my mind's still not quite up to capacity.
Loads. But a few off the top of my head; the unique weirdness of the Hells. The finality of the consequences - dead is dead, shattered is shattered, fallen is fallen. The themes of decayed magnificence and grandeur; of beauty and divine splendour cannibalised and reworked into lesser things. The cool and unique metabiology and evolution cycles of spiritual entities (evolution cycles of demons and angels in KSBD; Primordial soul hierarchies in Exalted). The meshing of brutality and beauty. The cynicism lurking just below the surface elements.
Hmm. Not things I've much experience with, then. Pity.
Are you familiar with Eclipse Phase? I believe that Eclipse Phase has many characteristics similar to what you like about Exalted albeit viewed through a technological rather than magical paradigm.
If you're talking to me, the reason I tend to stay away from traditional scifi is that I insist it be very selfconsistent, and that's rare. Also, more Just Plain Cool things show up when science fiction tropes are applied to a fantasy setting than anywhere else I've seen.
 
@HoratioVonBecker pretty much everything you like seems to be most prominent in Autochonia and the High First Age. There's nothing wrong with this, so long as you recognize that those are very definitely not the main foci of your typical Exalted game. Yes, you can have someone swordfighting a mountain in a 30 foot tall mecha, or some crazy Twilight cranking out killer death robots, but those are decidedly edge cases in normal gameplay.

To elaborate on this, the Age of Sorrows is constantly emphasized as a fallen age where the technomagical glories of the First Age are rare and hoarded wonders and deploying someone in a warstrider is the equivalent of launching an ICBM in terms of escalation.

[More to be added once I'm not at work]
 
Hmm. I wonder how many themes are considered in the 'primary group' in Exalted. There is of course the often-mentioned Consequences theme and the Violence Is Easy But Not Optimal theme.

Here are those that I have seen in the game line, and that I liked / that draw me to the line:
  • Solar (and not only Solar) Excellence - essentially the theme of achieving the impossible. Whether throwing over the Primordials, parrying an infinite-energy fireball (though that's one of the more boring ideas), convincing a fanatic to change faith with no more than seven words, changing the laws of nature permanently, creating a stable world in the sea of chaos.
  • Alien minds and alien forms of existence. Primary exemplified by Primordials and Raksha.
  • The omni-typeness, omni-conceptness of magic. I'm not sure if that counts as a theme, and how to explain it in one word, because even it is a theme, it is very dependent on the setting and the system for execution. In too many settings and systems, magic takes a rather limited number of forms: it basically replaces physical tools performing crude physical tasks, like a ball of fire, or crossing a couple of wires in this here target's brain to make him like you. But Exalted magic is different - it can do more outside-the-box stuff. Like change the natural laws by which sociology works, or permanently create a language that influences thinking (sure, a sci-fi concept, but still). Or like disguise oneself for a flying creature without either actually flying, nor clouding others' minds, nor creating other illusions. Or like parry a sword with a poem (or parry death with a sword). Or find food in a lifeless desert that has no food in it but not create it. Or stealing the central column of a temple in plain sight in such a way that nobody notices it until a minute later. (Sure, there are other settings with magic like that, but it still seems like a minority.)
  • Returning Rightful God-Kings-and-Queens. Including the idea (apparently coming from both [urlhttp://nobilis.me/quotes:that-sweet-solar-feeling]Borgstrom[/url] and the Ink Monkeys, in different words) that the revelation of their rightfulness is not some sort of guileful persuasion, but rather a revelation of a self-evident and almost cosmic truth.
  • The idea that yes, everyone has done horrible stuff in the past and this past cannot be undone, but this time there's still a chance to right what went wrong, just like there were before, and perhaps this time Creation will not be diminished. The chance was always there, and it is enormously difficult, as it always was. But it's the PCs' choice to pick the hard path if they're up to it. (E.g. the idea of a post-RotSE campaign where the PCs' goal is to rehabilitate the Yozis. Yes, that's an outrageous campaign goal, but Solars are meant to be.)
  • Choice and proactivity of PCs. I'm still not sure how true it is, but I get the impression that Exalted is meant to be played with the PCs acting a lot and not just reacting. Which is somewhat counter to the typical set-up where either "Questgiver gives quest, adventurers do it", or "Supervillains commit supervillainy, superheroes come to the resque", or "Criminals/terrorists threaten, good guys come in and stop them". Alas, in the current campaign, I'm feeling we, the players, and our PCs, are in a more reactive position.

What about you (y'all)? What are your more expanded lists of themes that you see in Exalted, and which ones of them do you find cool?

@HoratioVonBecker pretty much everything you like seems to be most prominent in Autochonia and the High First Age. There's nothing wrong with this, so long as you recognize that those are very definitely not the main foci of your typical Exalted game. Yes, you can have someone swordfighting a mountain in a 30 foot tall mecha, or some crazy Twilight cranking out killer death robots, but those are decidedly edge cases in normal gameplay.

To elaborate on this, the Age of Sorrows is constantly emphasized as a fallen age where the technomagical glories of the First Age are rare and hoarded wonders and deploying someone in a warstrider is the equivalent of launching an ICBM in terms of escalation.

[More to be added once I'm not at work]
Hmmm. Maybe 'And I Form The Head' and/or this Gunstar Autochthonia that people keep mentioning would be of use?
 
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@HoratioVonBecker pretty much everything you like seems to be most prominent in Autochonia and the High First Age. There's nothing wrong with this, so long as you recognize that those are very definitely not the main foci of your typical Exalted game. Yes, you can have someone swordfighting a mountain in a 30 foot tall mecha, or some crazy Twilight cranking out killer death robots, but those are decidedly edge cases in normal gameplay.

To elaborate on this, the Age of Sorrows is constantly emphasized as a fallen age where the technomagical glories of the First Age are rare and hoarded wonders and deploying someone in a warstrider is the equivalent of launching an ICBM in terms of escalation.

[More to be added once I'm not at work]
It was actually to illustrate a general theme. In the course of normal gameplay, you can fight a volcano god that is piloting a giant robot, with nothing but your bare hands, while both of you are dancing on an avalanche, and not only win but punch it so hard the mountain freezes over.
It is, often literally, absurdly awesome. And I have a soft spot for stories that do nothing by halves.
 
My manner was certainly clumsy and overconfident. I apologize. (Also, the intent was not quite what you seem to see it as, but I think saying anything more about that risks a tangent of RP philosophy not related to Exalted's fluff.)
I'm still unclear regarding how should a question/discussion of Recipe B be worded in order to avoid provoking the "do not ever eat B" reactions of all sorts.

Just don't expect other people who've been around for the entire lifespan of 2E and saw every single disaster happen in real time to treat 2E material as authoritative-because-its-canon, that's all that is needed to not cause that particular problem. Which is what I told you however many dozens of pages ago.

Liking the ingredients and pizzas I understand. Homecooking I understand. Stitching a new pizza out of Pizza B while hating Pizza B so much, as opposed to picking the ingredients (i.e. worldbuilding themes and storytelling styles) is what I'm having trouble with; it seems like a process that still leaves too much Pizza-B-legacy-code, and requires certain deliberate 'unlearning' of things, as opposed to starting from a blank slate.

/facepalm

There's no such thing as stitching, dude. If I pick ingredients from Recipe B that were not in Recipe A to use in my own pizza with 90% of the ingredient list of A, what I am I doing? Cooking.

For comparison: I like the overall result of the New Battlestar Galactica (Reimagined), but I'm puzzled why the makers decided to reimage the original series instead of taking the theme of exile and robots and making a series totally from scratch. I haven't seen the original series, but I know that nBSG can brush the oBSG fans the wrong side. Reimaging changed so much that retaining the connection to the old series looks more like an unwanted restriction.

Oh, for fuck's sake. Here, another try, maybe this one will bloody work...

Going with the Battlestar Galactica comparison, Exalted 2 is not new Battlestar Galatica vs the old Battlestar Galactica of Exalted 1. It is instead more like somebody's attempt to remake the old Battlestar Galactica episode for episode, with better special effects and modern cinematography. Except that they hired a producer who was more interested in making his own unrelated show and was just marking time on the project while he worked on that other show, scriptwriters who'd never watched the old Battlestar Galactica and were not kept in line by the non-present producer, and a QA department that didn't exist to check any of this before they started rolling the cameras.

Do you see why Battlestar Galactica fans might be a little pissed off at said producer, his scriptwriters, and the show they managed to produce, while still liking Battlestar Galactica?

And speaking of the reimagined things, including Pizza C, the Exalted 3rd edition:

^ This. Why?

Accumulated history of the project.

Also, still not clear why personal attacks/insults against Chefs B and/or their work (Chambers, Holden etc.) are considered a reasonable, socially-acceptable behaviour, even though I do understand that people disagree with some/many of their ideas.

a) Chambers managed to fuck up an entire edition of something people liked, b) the 3E team is notoriously bad at communication / PR regarding controversial decisions, which produces backlash, c) irregularities and massive delays with the Kickstarter for 3E managed to piss people off, because actual money is involved.
 
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Hmmm. Maybe 'And I Form The Head' and/or this Gunstar Autochthonia that people keep mentioning would be of use?
I would point out that 'And I Form The Head' is a very specific style of play that exists almost solely to allow people to play Super Sentai: the RPG. Gunstar Autochthonia is an Alternate Universe setting from Shards of the Exalted Dream that involves the Primordials winning the war and driving the Exalted host away into the Wyld, with Autochthon as their planet-sized spaceship; it is very much not the standard Creation. That said, those (or Heaven's Reach, another Shards AU) would seem to be things that Horatio might be interested in over vanilla Exalted.

It was actually to illustrate a general theme. In the course of normal gameplay, you can fight a volcano god that is piloting a giant robot, with nothing but your bare hands, while both of you are dancing on an avalanche, and not only win but punch it so hard the mountain freezes over.
It is, often literally, absurdly awesome. And I have a soft spot for stories that do nothing by halves.
I don't think you'll find many people here disagreeing with you on the absurdly awesome point. That's one of the main draws of Exalted. The stuff like "Mad Scientist" and "Robot Magician" were what I was trying to get at as nonstandard. Creation, as a setting, is broadly low tech. Almost anything high tech is explicitly magical, the remnants of a once-greater time, or both. Your "Mad Scientist" is going to be a crazy Exalted sorcerer, and the "Robot Magicians" only exist in a very distinct part of the setting (Autochthonia) that is sealed off from the rest of Creation.

Also, @Jon Chung, you might want to put Horatio and vicky on ignore and chill out for a while. You guys are going in circles and it just seems to be aggravating to everyone involved.
 
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I really wouldn't put responsibility for that on Chung, man.
I'm not saying that he ought to concede, just take a break so as to not explode. His posts are coming off as very aggravated, and I'd rather not have someone melt down in the thread. I would give the same advice to Horatio and vicky, but they would likely have to ignore most of the thread.
 
I don't think you'll find many people here disagreeing with you on the absurdly awesome point. That's one of the main draws of Exalted. The stuff like "Mad Scientist" and "Robot Magician" were what I was trying to get at as nonstandard. Creation, as a setting, is broadly low tech. Almost anything high tech is explicitly magical, the remnants of a once-greater time, or both. Your "Mad Scientist" is going to be a crazy Exalted sorcerer, and the "Robot Magicians" only exist in a very distinct part of the setting (Autochthonia) that is sealed off from the rest of Creation.
Honestly, if the word scientist come up in describing a character, and its not for Modern or Heavens Reach (even for Autochthonia I'd be wary), then the character is probably wrong for Exalted. Mainly because the term is absolutely loaded with implications and ties to modern understanding of how the world works. A lot of which doesn't apply to Exalted in general, and definitely don't apply to the Age of Sorrows. Natural philosopher, alchemist, and sorcerer are terms that just plain work better with the intended genre of Exalted, and tend to describe people in the world better.

(Sorry for the mini rant, but 'I want to be a mad scientist' in vanilla Exalted is one of those things that really annoys me. What, people can't take the time and effort to come up with a concept that actually fits the time period? It's not like the differences between a sorcerer and a mad scientist aren't paper thin in any case.)
 
"Get a job working for WW" is not a viable strategy. Especially when work in the RPG writing industry is as much who you know as what - see hatewheel, who basically got in through knowing Holden.
While it's certainly difficult, now would be the best possible time to do it since forever.

As a reminder, Paradox just bought them off CCP and appears to want to reconstitute the company. Applying to the new head of White Wolf as an editor with familiarity with Onxy Path products and a list of their prior questionable work seems like it might have a decent shot at working.

(Also, is it just me or is a significant chunk of that TAW's fault? Like, I remember seriously thinking that you or @EarthScorpion had the best chance of being the next new hire once they brought on the Demented One.)
 
While it's certainly difficult, now would be the best possible time to do it since forever.

As a reminder, Paradox just bought them off CCP and appears to want to reconstitute the company. Applying to the new head of White Wolf as an editor with familiarity with Onxy Path products and a list of their prior questionable work seems like it might have a decent shot at working.

Paradox, so far, have mostly just made some vague comments about loving Masquerade and OPP has made some comments about things generally being positive for cooperation between their companies. There's no particular indication that Paradox are going to start by "very soon you'll be seeing a lot of changes around here" in their corporate villain voices. I'd also suspect that unless they have an extremely strong vision for Exalted, they're not going to meddle in a two-years-overdue, heavily anticipated game by hiring people with visions contrary to the OPP team. Or rebooting E3 under a different team or creative direction before they're even on the second book (And if they were going to do that, I'd expect De Upphöjda: År Noll rather than hiring random internet people.)

e: Also, @vicky_molokh getting hired to work on Exalted through the strength of one's freelance work wouldn't really work for people who have problems with E2/E3's direction or mechanics. Douglas Cole got hired to write an entirely GURPS 4E-compatible expansion of a subsystem. Getting hired by OPP because you want to be the change you want to see in Exalted would be like getting hired by Steve Jackson to write for GURPS because you want to scrap the ST/DX/IQ/HT attributes entirely while also convincing David Pulver that you should write for the Transhuman Space line because you have a vision of THS that doesn't include catgirls.
 
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Getting hired by OPP because you want to be the change you want to see in Exalted would be like getting hired by Steve Jackson to write for GURPS because you want to scrap the ST/DX/IQ/HT attributes entirely while also convincing David Pulver that you should write for the Transhuman Space line because you have a vision of THS that doesn't include catgirls.
Hey, I resemble that remark! (And it's catwomen, thinkyewverymuch)
 
Alert: Appeals for calm are all very well and good
Also, @Jon Chung, you might want to put Horatio and vicky on ignore and chill out for a while. You guys are going in circles and it just seems to be aggravating to everyone involved.

appeals for calm are all very well and good But it's the Staff's experience that telling people to ignore each other, particularly through the Ignore function, tends to exacerbate matters than resolve them.

We do appreciate the sentiment behind it, though. So we're asking users to remember that if things are getting worked up, to step away for a bit to breathe then to come back fresh without any hangups. Sometimes getting caught in the moment means you get angry when you shouldn't, y'know.
 
So I went ahead and did some calculations on 3E Lore charms - specifically those that allow the teaching of others. Flowing Mind Prana, Tireless Learner Method (to break the XP-cap) and Selfsame Master Instruction (to teach charms, because of their short training time).

The basic assumption was that Flowing Mind Prana allows you to roll a number of dice equal to all the XP ever spent on it, not just the last use of it - but never get more than what you spent back (which is fine). A cap which Tireless Learner Method then breaks. Together, if abused, this yields some rather horrendously broken results.

Well, the sequence goes like this:
You commit X XP, then spend Y (where Y<X) XP on training someone. Z equals (all Y combined). You can also end the charm at each time, regaining any X but keeping your pool of Z.
At the end of each story, you roll Z. All successes (Zsux) from that roll give you XP (ZXP, but your XP gained from this may never be larger than Z.

You may use Solar Experience for X (and therefore Y), but your regain from Z is in normal XP.

If you have Tireless Learner Method, you also gain an additional option:
Each time you roll Z, you may spend 1 XP. That XP is NOT added to Z - but now, you keep all experience granted by the roll, even if ZXP>Z.


Example:
You commit 10 solarXP. You then teach some peasant (or a Circlemate) Medicine 3, costing you 9 out of those 10 solarXP and raising your "spent pool" to 9. You can now end Flowing Mind Prana, giving you 1 solarXP back.

With Legendary Scholars Curiculum and Essence 2, you could instead teach a large class. Two of that would become full-blown doctors (Medicine 3), while the other ten could still learn Medicine 1. Or you spend the full 10 XP, still granting the two doctors Medicine 3, but the others Medicine 2 (costing 5 XP, half of those 10 XP). This does not alter your "spent pool" in any way though.

After you're done with teaching the Medicine, you teach them some Bureaucracy. You only commit 6 solarXP - enough to bring two of them up to Bureaucracy 2, and the other ten to Bureaucracy 1. Since you spent 6 solarXP, this brings your entire "spent pool" to 16.

Now the story ends. You roll 16 dice, and get 8 successes. Thus, you gain 8 XP.
Now, let's end another story. You still roll 16 dice, but this time you get 10 successes - however, you only get 8 XP since you're limited by your "spent pool".
If another story ends now, you'd still get to roll 16 dice, but could not possibly gain any XP from it (since you're already at cap). If you however spend another 10 XP to teach someone, this brings your pool up to 26. You'd roll 26 dice, but get at most 10 more XP.
Now you learn Tireless Learner Method. Another story ends. You spend 1 XP to activate the charm, and roll the 26 dice. You get to re-roll all non-successes too, so lets say you get 20 successes. This means you get 20 XP (!!), though they will likely not contribute to raising your Essence.



Yeah, this gets insane pretty fast. Especially since nothing prevents you from using the XP you get back from the charm to activate the charm again.
If we assume an average of 4 sessions to the story, this is what a Twilight Loremasters XP-progression could look like:
Supernal Lore, Lore 5, and 5 charm purchases on the Teaching-charms. Allowing them to teach Solar Charms to other solars.

In the first two sessions, they get 8 solarXP. That is promptly spent on teaching a circlemate one charm. In the next two, they gain that much SolarXP again and spend them on teaching a circlemate another charm. The story ends, and they roll 16 dice, gaining 8 XP which they can spend on a Solar charm.

Over the next four sessions, the pool is brought up to 32 and they potentially taught another two charms to circlemates just from their own solarXP. Rolling normally would give them 16 XP, or in other words to Solar Charms.
They are now at 64 XP - enough for Essence 2, while their circlemates are still at 40 XP.

We go with another four sessions, and another two charms taught, and now a pool of (24/48). Rolling normally would give 24 XP - but they instead decide to activate Tireles Learner Method. So they gain 36 successes and thus 36 XP (-1 for the activation) - enough for four solar charms. Instead
Their pool is now at (60/48), with their XP are at 108. Their circlemates have caught up to Essence 2.

Another four sessions, same thing. Pool is at (60/64). Story ends, TLM, they get 48 XP - enough for six solar charms. Their XP is at 144, they're Essence 3 now while their Circlemates are still at 80 and thus Essence 2.

Again, with pool (145/80). Gain 60 XP. Their XP is at 180, circlemates at 100 (not even Essence 3 yet).

Again, with pool (205/96). Gain 72 XP. Their XP is at 216 - Essence 4, circlemates are still Essence 2 with 120 xp!

So yes, that's some pretty insane stuff. Buut we haven't even gone recursive yet! What if all the regained XP is spent on teaching again and use TLM sooner??
All earned SolarXP goes to teaching (so 16 XP/4 sessions). All re-gained XP goes to teaching too. Use own SolarXP to learn charms to teach to circlemates.

Session 4: Pool is (8/24) because we re-invested those 8 XP into teaching.
Session 8: Pool is (38/70). Roll 40 with TLM, gain 30 XP. Reinvest that into teaching, bring the pool to 70
Session 12: Pool is (102/150). Roll 86 with TLM, gain 64 XP. Reinvest, pool is at 150
Session 16: Pool is at (228/290). Roll 168 with TLM, gain 126 XP. Reinvest, pool is at 290.
Session 20: Pool is at (456/534). Roll 306 with TLM, gain 228 XP. Reinvest, pool is at 534.
Session 24: Pool is at (868/912). Roll 550 with TLM, gain 412 XP. Reinvest, pool is at 912.
Session 28: Pool is at (1837/1624). Roll 928 with TLM, gain 696 XP. Reinvest, pool is at 1624.

Yeah, that's...., here, you reach Essence 2 after 5 sessions, Essence 3 after 10 sessions, Essence 4 after 12 sessions, and Essence 5 before 16 sessions are over. While the normal progression is Essence 2 (10 sessions), Essence 3 (25 sessions), Essence 4 (40 sessions) and Essence 5 (60 sessions). You're essence 5 before your circlemates are even Essence 3. Granted, you could also theoretically teach them every single charm you yourself know, to all of them - looking at your pool by Session 28, you taught them 1624 XP worth of charms, abilities or attributes. I kinda doubt whether you could even possibly have that much to teach.

At this point, if you stop reiterating and just reap the XP you gain for yourself - well, a single story will now grant you 1254 XP. That's more than your Circlemates have earned in their entire lifetime (228), together (1152). That's enough to learn any non-favored ability at 5 (31 XP) and learn all it's charms (30 charms at 10 XP each =300 XP) - three times. You'll have mastered every ability, learned all its charms, raised all your attributes to 5, bought all merits, mastered all martial arts and learned all spells quite shortly, I suspect.

So yeah, either this is badly designed or people are misreading the charm (in which case it is badly written).

Yeah, this can't possibly be intentional. Either people are reading it wrong, or it's horribly designed. Because I can not imagine that anyone wants one archetype (Solar Loremaster) to have mastered every ability, charm, attribute, martial arts and all of sorcery before normal player characters are even Essence 3.
 
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The whole thing gets broken by Tireless Learner Method AND the interpretation that Flowing Mind Prana allows you to roll ALL XP ever used for it at the end of each story.

Just the latter? Ensures that you get your investment back, it'll just take a few stories.
Just the former? Well, it turns the whole thing into a bit of a gamble - without TLM, you'd lose ~50% of invested XP, with it you'd lose ~25% and sometimes you'd gain a few instead.

Easy fix while regaining all your XP? Well yes, that's possible. Just change the last sentence of Tireless Learner Method: "The Solar may never gain more "overage" experience points than twice her Essence rating from a single roll, and they are treated as SolarXP".
There, now it's at most 10 additional XP per story. That's still pretty potent- where others gain 20 XP and 16 solarXP (or thereabouts, depending on the session to story ration), the solar Loremaster gets (at most) 36 XP and 9 solarXP. But now it no longer scales exponentially.

And if that's too much for you, simply reduce it to "never gain more than her Essence rating (minimum 3) from a single roll"). Now it's 20/16 versus (at most) 36/2 for most of their career.

Or, you know, just don't use that interpretation that you roll all your XP spent. Treat it as it was probably intended - a charm that grants better companions, and converts your solarXP into fullXP - which comes with slightly faster Essence-growth, and more Solar-charms.
 
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I never got the impression that Flowing Mind Prana allowed you to roll all XP ever spent on it. To my mind it was clear that the pool actually emptied when you rolled (as most pools do).

The real abuse with it was that you teach someone X worth of XP, then you roll to get on average 0.5 X worth of XP back (or 0.75 X with TLM). This means that you have 1.5-1.75 as much XP to spend as everyone else - but you have to spend two thirds of it on someone else. Not particularly alarming, unless you have two characters with it - then suddenly they can teach each other, never actually spending XP on anything for themselves. The net of that is they both get 1.5-1.75 times as much XP to spend. (If I remember how it works correctly.)

I don't think it's particularly broken (since Exalted doesn't use a level-scaling system where being more efficient than expected at your level makes the game trivial), but the way it rewards a degenerate build is somewhat unfortunate. I don't quite remember enough details of the relevant Charms to tell whether this results in inter-party discrepancies though.
 
I see the warning, and so I'm suspending my reply trying to explain where I perhaps made myself misunderstood on the topic of trying to fix something deemed very broken vs. starting fresh.

While it's certainly difficult, now would be the best possible time to do it since forever.

As a reminder, Paradox just bought them off CCP and appears to want to reconstitute the company. Applying to the new head of White Wolf as an editor with familiarity with Onxy Path products and a list of their prior questionable work seems like it might have a decent shot at working.

(Also, is it just me or is a significant chunk of that TAW's fault? Like, I remember seriously thinking that you or @EarthScorpion had the best chance of being the next new hire once they brought on the Demented One.)
Could you elaborate what you mean - the part in parentheses and how it relates to the rest of the post? At first reading I got the impression that TAW somehow is at fault for not being hirable by WW/OPP. But surely that was me just misreading things, because I can't see a reason why that would be the case. Could you please explain? Thanks in advance!

Honestly, if the word scientist come up in describing a character, and its not for Modern or Heavens Reach (even for Autochthonia I'd be wary), then the character is probably wrong for Exalted. Mainly because the term is absolutely loaded with implications and ties to modern understanding of how the world works. A lot of which doesn't apply to Exalted in general, and definitely don't apply to the Age of Sorrows. Natural philosopher, alchemist, and sorcerer are terms that just plain work better with the intended genre of Exalted, and tend to describe people in the world better.

(Sorry for the mini rant, but 'I want to be a mad scientist' in vanilla Exalted is one of those things that really annoys me. What, people can't take the time and effort to come up with a concept that actually fits the time period? It's not like the differences between a sorcerer and a mad scientist aren't paper thin in any case.)
Hmm. And I thought Daedalus and Hephaestus were some of the first mad scientists . . .
 
Yes, that is also a very sensible interpretation - it's just that people DO interprete it as "roll all XP ever spent", and there's actually a good reason to read it like that ( slightly ambiguous text, it'd make sense to gradually gain your investment back).

Mind you, I'm pretty sure the designers just never ever imagined it'd be used like that, because that interpretation turns the charm + Tireless Learner Method from "solarXP to normalXP-converter" (as indicated by TLM itself) into "XP-earner". And even if you put limits on it - extraXP limied by last amount spent, or by Essence - it's pretty borked.

Whereas XP-multipliers that do not stack with your normal XP do happen in other places as well. Such as Ephemeral Induction Technique (charm that creates a spirit-familiar that shares half your XP and earns more) or the whole Persona-charmline. In those instances, you don't actually have "more" XP on yourself - you just have a "sidedeck" of XP. They give you different abilities, rather than enhancing your own. Well, the sensible interpretation of FMP+TLM does that too - you get a more capable companion. Granted, in any interpretation it also gives you slightly faster Essence-growth and more solar-charms.


Also, Flowing Mind Prana can't be used on your if you used it on someone else during the current story.
Which doesn't prevent you from alternating with a circlemate who also has it. The XP-gain doesn't actually change that way - it's just slower than if you could both use it at once on each other.
 
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