Touch of Sepia
Artisan of the Vital Tincture
- Location
- Connecticut
Logic and science = proof.
Feelings are intrinsically void of proof.
Feelings are opinion.
General Exalted Thread
Logic and science = proof.
Feelings are intrinsically void of proof.
Feelings are opinion.
So, the very first thing I need to say is that I completely agree with your general point, that his response to what he quoted is useless, and he's probably strawmanning (probably because I don't consider it to be such if it isn't on purpose).
On the other hand, I'm not seeing any changes between your original post and the paragraph he quoted.
Touch of Sepia
Artisan of the Vital Tincture
- Location
- Connecticut
Gas lighting, I did not change anything about your quote. If you went back and edited it, that's your own business.
- Location
- Spain
This is so biased that i could make a bridge with the irony.
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And yet you are trying rather strongly to present your feelings about how Sidereals are lazy good-for-nothings as a setting fact. Which requires proof you cannot or will not provide.
Warning For Marginal Behavior - Rule 4: "Don't be disruptive."
That's so biased it can be used to sit on two chairs at once.
Yes? That's in what he quoted. He doesn't address it at all, but that doesn't mean he edited the quote.
Revlid
blob of bugs
- Location
- England
My post was clearly split into two parts.
The first part asked why you were making stuff up about Sidereals, and addressed your (lackluster) take on the setting. The second, an aside, questioned what experiences had given you such a lackadaisical view of teaching hours. You plucked out the first line of the "making stuff up" bit and married it to the second line of the "teaching hours" bit, and cut out everything else.
I can't think why you'd do this, except to pretend I was insulting you and claiming you were making stuff up about his teaching, while ignoring the actual point.
That's petty and transparent and kind of stupid, so it seems plausible enough.
Touch of Sepia
Artisan of the Vital Tincture
- Location
- Connecticut
God, all the claims to strawman ever.
No I am not. Where the hell did I say it was setting fact. My very first post on this said it was just my opinion. Opinion is feeling.
Why does this forum interpret everything I say as some kind of canon fact rather than canon nuance. Is that the real straw man?
I did not say Sidereals were lazy good-for-nothings, I said they are blowing their duties out of proportion and likely cause they are surrounded by those that do not need to work at all. Accuse me of straw man and it's really everyone else - so much hate, so much.
No I am not. Where the hell did I say it was setting fact. My very first post on this said it was just my opinion. Opinion is feeling.
Why does this forum interpret everything I say as some kind of canon fact rather than canon nuance. Is that the real straw man?
I did not say Sidereals were lazy good-for-nothings, I said they are blowing their duties out of proportion and likely cause they are surrounded by those that do not need to work at all. Accuse me of straw man and it's really everyone else - so much hate, so much.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
The thing is, what interesting story and thematic prompts does your interpretation cause? Even if we go with "Opinion is feeling" and...it's sorta true but if you're not interacting with canon at all, or contradicting canon, then it gets a bit sketchier.
But the second prong to basically everything (and honestly why I'm here in the first place is
How does it make the game better/explain things in a way that makes STing or being a player more interesting and engaging.
If you have a take on something that doesn't add and only subtracts from the setting, then why are you bothering?
Honestly, this is all amusing because it's clear you weren't really engaging with the original posts you were replying to. Their statement was, "Sidereals work a lot and don't really get vacation time (as in, not just time after work, but time to be able to go and visit X place and be a tourist or whatever)[1] all that often." You then talk about how it's secretly a 9-5 job, because...reasons?
[1] Like, I don't work today, but I think it'd be silly to qualify that as a "vacation."
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Right. You didn't say Sidereals were lazy good-for-nothings. Not at all.
You didn't post this.
Or this.
Or this.
Are you asserting that these sentences were posted by someone else entirely?
Warning: OH REALLY
mothematics
How wide is the concept of "you"?
- Location
- the bottom of a coffee cup
- Pronouns
- She/Her
oh really
I can see post edit history, as it happens. You redacted the space between two rhetorically segregated things to make a narrative that did not exist. This is a blatant lie.
You are dancing on the edge of acceptability with your behavior in this thread, and just generally acting scummy. Let me lay out what's gonna happen now. Have a WFMB for egregious misrepresentation and being a tit to other users, and you're to clean up your act starting now. If you don't shape up, then you are leaving this thread propelled by infraction points.
You are dancing on the edge of acceptability with your behavior in this thread, and just generally acting scummy. Let me lay out what's gonna happen now. Have a WFMB for egregious misrepresentation and being a tit to other users, and you're to clean up your act starting now. If you don't shape up, then you are leaving this thread propelled by infraction points.
- Location
- Spain
When i Sid says that they live in the job, they literally mean that they live in the job. That's what a resplandecent destiny is. You become someone else and live their life doing wharever you have to do for Fate.
Now, that doesn't necesarily means that a sid is under the continious stress of hard work. Maybe they are living as the pampered courtesan of some eastern king, slowly manipulating him to cause it's downfall and helping the Realm take control.
Basically, they don't get vacations because their lives are part of the work. And they can hardly disconnect from this, due to arcane fate, and for the same reason joked a few pages before, that is, that Fate (or their superiors) would probably arrange things so that wherever they go they end working anyway.
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Gonna go ahead and assume the answer is yes, then. I don't the conversation is going to go back.
Azrael
Sakura Saber
- Location
- Throne of Heroes
The quote you have there is from an earlier discussion about Cecelyne. How is it relevant to your view that Sidereals over-exagerate their workload?
Following that thought, on the topic of your view, I'll point out it isn't supported by canon. At all. In the First Age, the gods were actually doing their jobs, and it was only towards the end that the Solars really made consistent messes of things (they did make messes earlier on too, but with less regularity than 'the first friday of every month').
In the modern era, the Deathlords are loose and running rampant. The gods are asleep at their desks, doing only what work they can be bribed, cajoled, or otherwise forced to do. The Demon Princes are active, plotting and scheming to reclaim their lost Creation while the guards are busy squabbling amongst themselves.
The Sidereals have never been busier. That is the entire point of the Age of Sorrows. Everything is going down the shitter, and the Sidereals' job is to try to stop that. There are only 100 of them. Managing reality is not an easy job. Acting as supernatural fate ninjas is not an easy job.
The line would not establish that the Sidereals are overworked and undermanned almost literally everytime it mentions them if they weren't actually overworked and undermanned.
The books wouldn't say that Sidereals have trouble getting time off because there's alway more work to be doing. The books wouldn't establish that losing a Sidereal in the line of duty is a tragedy because it's one less guy to make sure the world doesn't come apart at the seams until his replacement can be found and trained, and might be ready in 20 years or so.
You stated your opinion as if it were fact, insulted the Sidereals while you did it, and then went on to insult several of the posters in this thread when they argued against your interpretation.
The post that sparked this had no real disclaimer. It had a 'personally' towards the beginning, for all that's worth.
Stop: Stop
- Pronouns
- He/Him
stop
Enough.
I recognize that for whatever reason this thread apparently regularly provokes catfights about impenetrably dense obscure trivia and general argle-blargling, but this particular one stops here.
The thread will be locked to prevent any further piling on for likefarming purposes while we sort out the righteous from the wicked and mete out unto each what they deserve.
I recognize that for whatever reason this thread apparently regularly provokes catfights about impenetrably dense obscure trivia and general argle-blargling, but this particular one stops here.
The thread will be locked to prevent any further piling on for likefarming purposes while we sort out the righteous from the wicked and mete out unto each what they deserve.
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Stop: This is the part where many people are unhappy
Generic_Generica
Notice me Senpai~
- Location
- Right behind you
this is the part where many people are unhappy
Right. Let's get to it.
Thread re-opened. New policy though. You will be polite to one another. You will maintain a veneer of civility at the very least. I do not care if you're right about some obscure trivia, I don't care about your feelings with regards to one another. The rules still apply in this thread.
If you are not civil to each other you will be infracted and threadbanned. Enough petty squabbling. Sort out your houses, or else.
@Touch of Sepia, take 25 points in a violation of rules 3 and 4 for these posts here. And here, and here. This is for precipitating a thread-derail. Do not take other people's posts out of context like that in the future. Do not alter other people's quote-boxes creatively like that in the future and lie about it. Do not lie and accuse other posters of gaslighting in the future. Hint: We can see post histories and how posts've been edited.
Only warning. Please don't do it again.
@Revlid has taken 25 points in a violation of rule four for this post here.
@changeling, take a warning for marginal behavior for this post here. We do not like dogpiling.
@Estro I sincerely sincerely hope that this funny rating over here was a misclick for your own sake. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here. Only warning, please don't abuse the ratings system.
And everyone else who participated in this thread derail: Next time? Report, don't retort. Button's there for a reason. You know who you are.
Alright I'm done here. Thread unlocked. You all have fun now.
That's all folks. Back to business.
Thread re-opened. New policy though. You will be polite to one another. You will maintain a veneer of civility at the very least. I do not care if you're right about some obscure trivia, I don't care about your feelings with regards to one another. The rules still apply in this thread.
If you are not civil to each other you will be infracted and threadbanned. Enough petty squabbling. Sort out your houses, or else.
@Touch of Sepia, take 25 points in a violation of rules 3 and 4 for these posts here. And here, and here. This is for precipitating a thread-derail. Do not take other people's posts out of context like that in the future. Do not alter other people's quote-boxes creatively like that in the future and lie about it. Do not lie and accuse other posters of gaslighting in the future. Hint: We can see post histories and how posts've been edited.
Only warning. Please don't do it again.
@Revlid has taken 25 points in a violation of rule four for this post here.
@changeling, take a warning for marginal behavior for this post here. We do not like dogpiling.
@Estro I sincerely sincerely hope that this funny rating over here was a misclick for your own sake. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here. Only warning, please don't abuse the ratings system.
And everyone else who participated in this thread derail: Next time? Report, don't retort. Button's there for a reason. You know who you are.
Alright I'm done here. Thread unlocked. You all have fun now.
That's all folks. Back to business.
- Location
- Singapore
So....
How do the ambrosia golden coins taste like?
How do the ambrosia golden coins taste like?
Is there any official or homebrewed material regarding subterranean Creation, beyond the Scroll of Fallen Races and the debris thereof? With the Jadeborn and the Darkbroods and whatnot? It seems like the only material out there is two to books, which is a shame because the two types of Darkbrood that are presented are really interesting, and if they're representative of what else could be down there then the underground world seems like it could hold a wide variety of plot hooks and potential threats for players to confront.
samdamandias
Apprentice Plane Wizard
Pictured: The monthly operating budget of a junior member of the Bureau of Destiny
They're pretty much described as chocolate coins wrapped in golden foil.
It's probably better to assume that it was glossed over/not seen due to arguments and threadlocking. Also a weekday.
It doesn't really sound like you're scraping the system, or addressing the big problems people have with astrology besides paradox, though that is 'solved' only because you've eliminated it rather than making it into a functional limit system, which has some interesting ideas going for it. Your reasoning works, but it also seems counter to some of the fun aspects of Sidereals (that they are in a giant bureaucracy), and seems focused on some of the worst parts of 2ed's system (High essence play, astrological charms, focusing on the Incarnae).
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- Location
- Gladstone, OR
@EarthScorpion has some homebrew somewhere in this thread where he basically redoes the 'Jadeborn' as a more varied mishmosh of tolkien-esque races which includes orcs and driders and other random stuff.
Setting that aside, the 'thing' with the underground-creation content is that for most of the playerbase, it's a non-entity that will never come up and is poorly conveyed/articulated. I mean, how do you even GET there from the surface? Caves exist, sure, but then what?
Like- fundamentally, there is not enough of an intermediary layer between the surface of Creation and the underground. I'm not incentivized to dig for much as a player, or go to exotic magical locales that happen to be underground. So as an avenue for homebrew, that's definitely an option.
Like, this is from two-seconds of research so don't rush off to the bank with it, but canonically in Creation, most salt is iirc harvested from the salt-water shores around the Inland Sea- this is where we get Creation's 'Salt Rate' from. There's no reason why actual Salt Mines can't be a thing on inland Creation, with all the pre-industrial hazards implied by the wikipedia article. A valuable resource that must be mined out of the ground, and you Go Deep or Go Home.
It's also worth noting that as far as I'm aware, unlike 'The Real World', mining in Creation is similar to Farming- in that Elementals actually can/will renew mineral deposits as part of their natural behavior. I might be wrong on that, but if it's accurate, a mine only plays out of the spirits involved let it.
Thank you for your critique. You make good points on using it as an actual replacement system, but like I said I mostly was going to use it as a personal thing, and just wanted to be sure it was something vaguely resembling workable, instead of inadvertantly making something that was all "herp derp I'm going to homebrew away everything that prevents me from fulfillying my power fantasy." I and since I don't find Paradox at all interesting or fun, nor do I find the idea of Sidereals literally being part of the bureaucracy, rather than agents of that bureaucracy (like, I'm 99% certain Seal Team Six wasn't made up of members of the IRS.) to be fun either, it works for me.
Again, thank you for taking the time to read it over and give me your opinion.
Cool. Do you have a link?
IIRC, the Salt Rate is a thing because the Salt Gods who's job is "make sure salt stays a part of Creation" actively attack anyone trying to collect it, and the Salt Rate is based on the price of the offering people need to give the Salt Gods to appease them and allow mortals to collect the salt, with the annual price for all Salt God offerings being set by the Scalet Empress.
I imagine it being sort of like OPEC, but with salt.
Thanks!
Bursting Eagerness Soul
Threadwalking Rating Machine
- Location
- Wisconsin
The "average Sidereal works 80 hours a week" factoid is actually just a statistical error. Ketchup Carjack, who lives in Yu Shan and works 25 hours every day is an outlier and should not have been counted.