That does seem to produce many quickly-rising empires (say, 60 out of those 300 will go empire-building, 120 will help their friends empire-build together, 120 will go murder-hoboing or otherwise not-empire-building, and 60 will fail/die/etc. somehow), but probably will also result in empires distributed pretty far from each other . . . not sure if that's good or bad.
At least 150 of those have the potential to have a ready made power base, waiting for them to unleash it upon creation/their enemies (Abyssals/Infernals). Of course, those 150 also have the potential to never sit foot in creation again, and focus on the realms of existence uniquely suited to themselves (The Underworld and hell Respectively). Of course, you've also got to throw in all the Lunars who can move more openly now that the Realm is fractured and the defense grid not functional, the Deathlords making their move through shadowlands and of course the 2000+ Dragonblooded not allied to the realm.
Not to mention Infernals summoning the quarter prince as a 'distraction', the Fae, Behemoths, Things that were best left forgotten and the hosts of Heaven.
Creation is large, but when sorcerors and necromancers begin to work in earnest, and Exalted unearth or recreate the wonders of the past, it can feel a lot smaller.
. . . And this is why I asked what sort of world is considered a desirable one for the worldbuilders. Because if a three-dot artifact is just a sword that is about as good as pre-patch Perfect sword, then suddenly ancient noble clans have much less of an incentive to tremble over the millenia-long histories of such weapons or pay half-kingdoms for a few such blades. Artifacts become less of a mythically cool thing, and more of a wall-hanger that might as well be replaced with something different; their symbolic value - that of status symbols - becomes fully divorsed from their ability to actually enable mythic last stands or whatever. And Scavenger Lords, instead of their old role of Lara Crofts and Indiana Joneses trading in ancient wonders, instead become some sort of a glorified hybrid of De Beers Group and KA-BAR Knives Inc. (only also not as large in scale).
I'd take your objection more seriously if in real life people don't do exactly that for things like a Muramasa blade, despite the fact that they're not really any more effective at killing people than a normal sword. And they were doing it back before swords were purely a collectible.
And I notice you're ignoring @Jon Chung's other point, which is that... uh. Players in Fallout do totally try to get a suit of Combat Armour, even though there's only a bit of a stat gain over Metal Armour. And this is going to be even more prominent when it's not a game, because your Shogunate armour made of light alloys is far, far more comfortable to wear, lighter, and has a better chance of stopping a spear thrust in the melee. And to continue the Fallout metaphor, sometimes someone will unearth a suit of pre-War power armour which gobbles up fusion cores and is an utter bitch to keep supplied, but while it's working you have a massive notable advantage (which if you want to keep your power armour working, you'll probably have to use the armour to steal someone's manses and hope you don't run out of fuel before you secure a source of fuel).
Still, Artifacts that Actually Do Something are more attractive for players to have.
And pen&paper RPGs do not necessarily provide the motivation that people have to collect things in real life (prestige) or in games (gotta have it all, because it looks nice). Granted, those can totally apply, but due to their different nature that is not necessarily the case.
Now yes, there is of course a significant issue with combination hell, or making artifacts necessary upgrades.
A large stat-boost granted by them can achieve the latter - nor are pure stat-boosts really all that interesting.
And charm-like powers can trigger the former.
However, charm-like powers do not necessarily do that!
The most obvious way to avoid it is artifacts simply provide benefits that do not interact with native charms, and better yet do not have to.
That is in turn best achieved by giving artifacts nice scenic powers - that, if they are to be used in combat, do not actually enhance attack or defense pools.
We actually see some nice use of that with the Eclipse-keyword in this edition. Most Eclipse-charms don't actually augment the characters actions directly, rather they allow some nice new tricks:
Curse of the Dead: Curse someone, preventing them from regaining Willpower from sleeping. Black Breath of the Abyss: Create a cloud of darkness that can be pierced by being dead, using awareness-charms or having a solar anima banner flaring. Broken Earths Anguish: Notice intruders into a Dog of the Unbroken Earths terrain. Towering Wheat Blessing: Instantly grow existing plant life, creating difficult terrain. Legendary Reaper: Instantly harvest a field of wheat. Storm-Stirring Lash: Create a storm, which imposes penalties on ranged attacks and threatens ships. Wrath from the Sky: Attack someone with an environmental hazard (thus not augmented by any other charms really). Prismatic Sea-Spoor Streamers: Create rainbow-trails in water. Racing Sailfish Surge: Double 9's in a pursuit, but only underwater. Still, this actually would combine with Athletics-charms. Seductive Shapechange: Alter appearance and get +2 Appearance towards one character. However, this explicitly doesn't stack with other Apperance-enhancing charms. Night-Black Carapace: Create light artifact armor that you can shatter to counterattack against a decisive attack. This is a special attack that can not be enhanced by any charms either (since it doesn't fall under any combat-abilities).
So powers like that really shouldn't lead into combination-hell, since they do not actually combine with any native charms (with one exception that can only be used in narrow circumstances).
Artifacts do sadly have lots of Evocations that would combine and stack with native solar charms, though at least the problem is a bit less serious as it was under the leak-document paradigm.
I'd take your objection more seriously if in real life people don't do exactly that for things like a Muramasa blade, despite the fact that they're not really any more effective at killing people than a normal sword. And they were doing it back before swords were purely a collectible.
I'm not sure I'd even categorise my post as an objection, more like an observation of a shift in the setting that may result from this change. Also:
I didn't say that such Artifacts would become pure wall-hangers nor that people would never pay enormous amounts of wealth for them. I said that with the change there becomes "less of an incentive" to pay a half-kingdom for it, and that they "become less of a mythically cool thing, and more of a wall-hanger". A Muramasa blade is valuable. A Muramasa Daiklaiv of Conquest (or non-Solar equivalent) is mythic in quality, and thus more valuable.
And I notice you're ignoring @Jon Chung's other point, which is that... uh. Players in Fallout do totally try to get a suit of Combat Armour, even though there's only a bit of a stat gain over Metal Armour. And this is going to be even more prominent when it's not a game, because your Shogunate armour made of light alloys is far, far more comfortable to wear, lighter, and has a better chance of stopping a spear thrust in the melee. And to continue the Fallout metaphor, sometimes someone will unearth a suit of pre-War power armour which gobbles up fusion cores and is an utter bitch to keep supplied, but while it's working you have a massive notable advantage (which if you want to keep your power armour working, you'll probably have to use the armour to steal someone's manses and hope you don't run out of fuel before you secure a source of fuel).
Oh, someone definitely will. But will successful Scavenger Lords stay the equals of nobility thanks to their glorious aptitude at raiding ancient tombs, or will even the best of them be reduced to nameless middle-class archaeologists? An army of ancient-city-diggers and required guards is much less affordable if the discovery barely pays for the work time of a dozen archaeologists.
As I said, it's not that this isn't an unacceptable setting. Just a matter of whether it's what is desired. So . . . what is the overall desired end result / world situation in terms of lesser, greater and earthshaking wonders for the reworked setting?
The thing about balancing artifacts (or whatever you want to call magical equipment) is that they should be balanced with the other 'non-intrinsic' character resources that a character can develop over the course of play. And should have as much investment required and limitations imposed as those resources as well.
Looking at it solely from the idea of Background dots, though actually you would balance them based on time invested x resources required, a four dot Artifact should have the same level of utility as a four dot Army or a four dot Spy Network or a four dot Shipping Company or a four dot Cult. It should definitely let you be better at doing things, much like having a cadre of trained spies makes you better at ferreting out the movements of the Wyld Hunt or a four dot Shipping Company helps you undercut the local Fair Folk slave trade and so on. But it should also require just about as much time to acquire as building that spy network or company, have restrictions on how you can apply it on the same scale and require roughly the same level of resources to deploy consistently.
Imagine the amount of money it takes to train, equip, deploy, march and field an army of 1000 soldiers to take on a rival kingdom. An artifact weapon that was as useful in taking on a rival kingdom should take that much effort to find/build, repair/maintain and expend about as much resources. Though the types of resources may differ. Armies need conscripts, arms and armor, food, medical supplies, training time and so on. A sword that creates volcano blasts capable of taking down that army would require various exotic materials, reagents, crafting and training time to use.
This is basically how you should be using demense and manse in your games. The idea of magic baubles is way too D&D, but securing a network of magical fuel depots and mines for more vespene gas magical reagents, or carefully managed bordermarch zones, or trade with demon soldaties, or bargains with local corrupt spirits... yeah you can totally have magic bling. Ironically the way to preserve it is to both make artifacts more and less powerful at the same time; less Sword of +2 versus Dragonblooded and more tactical warheads.
I'm not sure I'd even categorise my post as an objection, more like an observation of a shift in the setting that may result from this change. Also:
I didn't say that such Artifacts would become pure wall-hangers nor that people would never pay enormous amounts of wealth for them. I said that with the change there becomes "less of an incentive" to pay a half-kingdom for it, and that they "become less of a mythically cool thing, and more of a wall-hanger". A Muramasa blade is valuable. A Muramasa Daiklaiv of Conquest (or non-Solar equivalent) is mythic in quality, and thus more valuable.
Bluntly, the level of Scavenger Lord you seem to be taking as the baseline was never the norm. There is one Daiklaive of Conquest. There are far, far more jade daiklaives which were made to be wielded by a Dragonblood, back when the Dragonblooded population was much, much higher than it is now. Your average found daiklaive is not going to go for half a kingdom, unless it's a very small kingdom. There are even more scavenger lords who make their living off Shogunate scrap and recovering documents and artwork and the like. After 700 years, the choicest scrap in easily accessible locations will have already been picked bare.
And if there are a few mythic blades out there, they are the exception. Not the baseline. "When everyone is super, no one is" applies in full force here - you can't have "every single daiklaive is worth half a kingdom" and "every DB worth their salt can have an artefact weapon and the Realm and Lookshy have entire arsenals of them".
Anyway, once the value of a found object becomes too high, the use of main force to seize it becomes more and more probable. It's entirely reasonable for a Scavenger Lord to make their fortune selling off bits of super-strong, super-light alloy from a Shogunate tractor factory they found. If Lookshy gets a reputation for seizing the tractor bits from people who try to sell it to them, people will stop offering them things like that and sell it to the Realm instead. On the other hand, seizing a mythic artefact means there's a lot more room to get away with it, because it's not like someone else is going to try to sell you a Daiklaive of Conquest (since there's only one).
Okay, so I was recently struck by a thought regarding Pantheon charms and I haven't been able to get it out of my head. So, I'm getting rid of it the long way.
The existing Pantheon charms are all about Green Sun Princes forging Devas from thematically-linked Charms as a part of becoming closer to being a Primordial. The next step in that Progression (after having them reach 3rd Circle status with Titanic Soul Invincible) is having a Fetich soul. The obvious solution that occurs is the Infernal's Unwoven Coadjutor, however I can't say this is always the right choice, nor should it be so easy to achieve. Coadjutors do not always get along well with their Infernals (or are sometimes too damaged to interact), which makes it seem inappropriate to automatically make them the centrepoint of a budding Primordial's soul. On top of that, a Coadjutor is literally irreplaceable, and making them a high-priority externalisable Deva is bad for their health.
So, I figured the best solution would be to find a really special soul to make the fetich-Either by using a Heretical Charm, or by looking externally. I decided on both-with different options for different types of 'special souls'.
@Earthscorpion, @Aleph, if the two of you don't mind, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this little mindworm of mine. This is nowhere near a finished product, but I'd love any thoughts on whether this line of thinking might be worth pursuing.
So, for something as special as a fetich soul, we don't want it to be easy to get, mechanically or fluff-wise. For my first example, I picked some roleplay-heavy Yozi, a roleplay-heavy external option that was thematically linked, and then a charm that requires some very good roleplaying.
Dual Heart-Devouring Transcendence
Cost: -; Mins: Essence 5; Type: Permanent Keywords: Pantheon, Heretical Duration: Permanent Prerequisites: Rocks Fall; Play the Music, Light the Lights; Any 3 'Pantheon' Keyworded Charms
Those Infernals who master the arts of controlling Narrative and Shaping the Wyld are natural enemies of the Raksha-but sometimes they find themselves developing an affinity for those very foes. The oddest among them might notice the complete adaptability displayed by the Fae presents options that could very well be considered utterly insane.
An Infernal who wishes to mold a Raksha into an appropriate form must undertake a very risky course of action, by first allowing the Raksha to feed upon them, thus filling the Raksha with the Infernal's corrupting Primordial Essence. Once this has been done, the Raksha must willingly and without coercion pluck out their own Heart Grace so that the Infernal may devour it in turn. Should the Infernal somehow find a Raksha who can be convinced to do this, the act of devouring the Heart Grace forges a Chrysalis Grotesque with the appearance of Gossamer around the two of them. Once sufficient time has passed, the Infernal emerges with a new Pantheonic soul, who is created as a combination of the Raksha they once were, and the themes of the Yozis whose power rewrote them into a new form. This new Deva may form a Fetich Soul if the Infernal does not already possess one, enhancing their Primordial aspect.
-The former Raksha now takes the form of a Deva, retaining access to their former abilities, but also gaining the ability to commune with the Infernal at will, live inside the soul of the Infernal and share motes of Essence with the Infernal (making the Deva immune to the risk of Calcification).
-Any Virtue Graces possessed by the former Raksha add 1 dot to the relevant Virtue of the Infernal, even if this would take them over their usual maximum.
-Should the Infernal know either Triumphant Howl of the Devil Tiger or (Yozi) Cosmic Principle, the Infernal and their Fetich Soul become capable of learning charms possessed by the other at a cost of 10xp each. Should the Fetich soul be slain, any charms learnt this way by the Infernal are lost and the xp refunded, but if the Infernal is slain, the Deva dies as well.
A path to higher power, in exchange for irrevocably binding yourself to another. I had ideas for other Fetich soul charms, each using different Heretical Yozi combinations and geared towards different types of beings, but I'll admit to being a bit stymied by the fact that an Exalt would likely have to lose their Exaltation in order to become a Fetich soul. Which is a shame because I had a really cool idea for an Isidoros/Szoreny heretical charm that lets an Infernal take their Lunar mate as a Fetich Soul.
Green Sun Princes don't have fetich souls. Or, if you want to look at it another way, they automatically start with a fetich soul; the cornerstone of their identity, the foundation of their thematics, and it's called "their hun/po bond" and has an Exaltation glued onto it. They are their fetich. It's one of the big ways in which they're not like Primordials, but are instead something new and somewhat alarming. A fetich is a vulnerability; it's something less powerful than you that kills you if someone ganks it. It's the sweet spot in a Primordial that you can hit to take that Primordial out (at the cost of creating a new Primordial who may well be adapted by the trauma of its birth so that such a method of killing it won't work again, and who will probably remember you).
Making yourself a fetich soul, which is only distinguished from a normal Third Circle in that it's somewhat more powerful and a honking great target that can be used to kill you from the other side of Creation, is a step down.
(Keris has already slid into the view that she's the "fetich/Defining soul/first among equals" rather than the whole entity where Haneyl is just the part of her that is a tiny greedy cultural imperialist. She has not yet privately decided that she and the bitchy snake are probably twin fetiches, but it's only a matter of time before she comes to such a conclusion. And then carefully doesn't mention it out loud because fucking hell, she's not going to make any claims comparing herself to the Primordial King; she wants to live.)
Bluntly, the level of Scavenger Lord you seem to be taking as the baseline was never the norm. There is one Daiklaive of Conquest. There are far, far more jade daiklaives which were made to be wielded by a Dragonblood, back when the Dragonblooded population was much, much higher than it is now. Your average found daiklaive is not going to go for half a kingdom, unless it's a very small kingdom. There are even more scavenger lords who make their living off Shogunate scrap and recovering documents and artwork and the like. After 700 years, the choicest scrap in easily accessible locations will have already been picked bare.
I didn't say that's the baseline level. Though in retrospect perhaps 'successful' (that I used in the post) is underwhelming when describing someone comparable to Rockefeller or some other 'captain of the industry'. That being said, IIRC Artifacts rate between their Rating+1 and Rating+3 in Resource Value, which can be quite a lot.
And if there are a few mythic blades out there, they are the exception. Not the baseline. "When everyone is super, no one is" applies in full force here - you can't have "every single daiklaive is worth half a kingdom" and "every DB worth their salt can have an artefact weapon and the Realm and Lookshy have entire arsenals of them".
Yes, this is why I mentioned conflicting worldbuilding desires a few posts above - "make artifacts special" vs. "invoke the sense of wonder every session", among other things. That's why I tried to figure out/ask what sort of priority set is seen as desirable in world[re]building for Exalted as far as artifacts go.
Making yourself a fetich soul, which is only distinguished from a normal Third Circle in that it's somewhat more powerful and a honking great target that can be used to kill you from the other side of Creation, is a step down.
True enough, though I was thinking of the concept in terms of getting that risk in exchange for greater power, such as gaining access to another being's native powers.
What do you think of the idea in general, of gaining Pantheonic souls by adapting other types of beings into Devas?
If nothing else, I'm hoping it has a lot of roleplay utility to anyone who is concerned about the roleplay aspects of apotheosis and gaining immortality.
Basically my stunted brainchild is a modification of the current EX3 Crafting system: it nixes the use of silver points for basic and major projects (And possibly nixes the major and basic project entirely) transforming them into usable monetary resources. The gold points (And potentially the white ones, does not really knows) are now Inspiration, which is needed only to create Artifacts (Which may be renamed because i actually like more your potential names), and are gained by using the other Twilight abilities to do things(Ritual circles, studies of the lunar phases, meditation on the nature of reality, draughts that indunce revelations).
Both resources are needed to create Artifacts, but can be consumed in a variable proportion: thus the Murderhobo or, more poetically, the hedge witch who is really really poor, but is also creating her current work on notes, Wonders, and rites left by her ancestors, would have a lot of Inspiration, but nearly no Monetary Resources, thus having to use all of her inspiration to create her Artifact. Now the Hedge Witch has to redo again the work of ages to make another Artifact.
I was thinking in something similar to this.... probably something to do at the same time that my Limit revision (Where Limit is something that the player* willingly accepts in exchange of a little advantage, Inspiration being one of the possible choices)
(Because being a literally mad inventor who drinks directly from the power of the neverborn for the spark of genious is something that amuses me)
*(The player, not the character, of course. The character is still subconsciously accepting the influence of the neverborn for power)
True enough, though I was thinking of the concept in terms of getting that risk in exchange for greater power, such as gaining access to another being's native powers.
What do you think of the idea in general, of gaining Pantheonic souls by adapting other types of beings into Devas?
If nothing else, I'm hoping it has a lot of roleplay utility to anyone who is concerned about the roleplay aspects of apotheosis and gaining immortality.
I'd ban it at my table. It's only going to be tried to use to bypass the limits of demons, or to bypass issues like "oh shit, my beloved mortal spouse is going to die from old age in a few decades, and using Infernal Charms to extend their life will come with the side effects of using Infernal Charms to extend their life and so they might wind up a withered mummy who can't leave a place of desolation without dying".
If I wanted to bypass the effects of using Infernal Charms, I'd play a Solar.
Anyway, the Pantheon stuff is written so your souls are an extension of you. Not of anyone else. They're your demons, and they're an exploration of your own character. "Adoption" ignores all that.
I was thinking in something similar to this.... probably something to do at the same time that my Limit revision (Where Limit is something that the player* willingly accepts in exchange of a little advantage, Inspiration being one of the possible choices)
(Because being a literally mad inventor who drinks directly from the power of the neverborn for the spark of genious is something that amuses me)
*(The player, not the character, of course. The character is still subconsciously accepting the influence of the neverborn for power)
I'd ban it at my table. It's only going to be tried to use to bypass the limits of demons, or to bypass issues like "oh shit, my beloved mortal spouse is going to die from old age in a few decades, and using Infernal Charms to extend their life will come with the side effects of using Infernal Charms to extend their life and so they might wind up a withered mummy who can't leave a place of desolation without dying".
If I wanted to bypass the effects of using Infernal Charms, I'd play a Solar.
Anyway, the Pantheon stuff is written so your souls are an extension of you. Not of anyone else. They're your demons, and they're an exploration of your own character. "Adoption" ignores all that.
Err, no, i meant what i said. The great curse is an improvement of the Exaltations, an extra source of power that just happens to corrupt your Virtues if you accept it. The last gift of the dead titans.
And the reason to make Limit gain voluntary (Or mostly voluntary) for the players is that, simply, carrots work better than sticks. If i want my players to play as mad God-like beings drunk with power, i prefer to give them incentives to do so than just force them. And if they reject them and act sane, that's their choice too.
(Is interesting that you mention Autobot, though, since after all the wellspring of his genious is linked to his theme of breaking limits and entropy. So, by accepting the influence of the Neverborn in your soul, your Twilight is emulating Autochton in a way)
@frozenchicken : If you really want something resembling "using another beings powers", then you can do it in the following two ways:
- something that allows the character to develop charms inspired by that other beings thematics. A imitating Solars would get you charms revolving around personal legend and prowess, with sunlight-flavor. Imitating a god would give you some powers over that gods domain, though likely far less than that god would have access to.
This requires a great deal of custom work, but it CAN be balanced no matter what being you are imitating, and can be made non-broken if you're mostly focussing on utility rather than stuff that boosts your own strengths.
- Charms that have fixed functions, but those functions are dependent and flavored based on what being you're imitating. So you get "Exalt-Imitiating Technique" which is simply a dice adder fitting for your splat, but also gets rerolls if you're imitating a Solar, adds to an attribute if you're imitating a Lunar, or lowered target numbers if you're imitating a Sidereal. All of those powers of course already being taken into account when determining the charms power level!
This is also quite a bit of work, but once it's done it's done and can be adjusted to pretty much everything.
I'd allow it, because there's that Sidereal charm that converts demons/devas to gods, so the opposite ought to be possible, with the caveat that the being in question must already be some manner of spirit. A demon/deva, god, elemental or raksha.
Why? What about the relationship means that it can be inverted in that way, beyond blasé appeals to symmetry?
The Sidereal charm is an act of mutilation, hacking away a part of a Primordial's brain so that it has independent existence. That act is not thematically appropriate for a reversion.
Why? What about the relationship means that it can be inverted in that way, beyond blasé appeals to symmetry?
The Sidereal charm is an act of mutilation, hacking away a part of a Primordial's brain so that it has independent existence. That act is not thematically appropriate for a reversion.
To use your metaphor, you can hack something away, but you can also graft something on. It might not work the same way as the original and it will probably bring changes, but it's possible.
Why? What about the relationship means that it can be inverted in that way, beyond blasé appeals to symmetry?
The Sidereal charm is an act of mutilation, hacking away a part of a Primordial's brain so that it has independent existence. That act is not thematically appropriate for a reversion.
There is already a way of taking something not of your Mythos and hacking and mutilating it and injecting bits of your Primordial Essence into it until it becomes a part of you.
It's called Making An Akuma.
So if you want to turn your waifu into a devil-monster bloated on your Essence and whose mind has been twisted into a slavish Urge controlled psychopath... uh, go ahead?
Why? What about the relationship means that it can be inverted in that way, beyond blasé appeals to symmetry?
The Sidereal charm is an act of mutilation, hacking away a part of a Primordial's brain so that it has independent existence. That act is not thematically appropriate for a reversion.
You've mentioned several times that you wouldn't allow the ability to bring other people into the Devil Domain or to bring the Coadjutor out on the basis that it puts an irreplaceable Background which acts as a prereq for several Charms in danger of getting splattered by someone with Spirit Killers. Which is fairly sensible.
But I've been wondering, is it really irreplaceable? The Coadjutor is the Infernal's Fourth Soul and part of their soul hierarchy. If it, or another soul, gets hit by a Spirit Killer they're dead for good. But even an Infernal or a Primordial loses that particular soul for good, they'll eventually grow a replacement sometime later.
It wouldn't be the one that was lost, sure. But it would take up the missing place in the soul hierarchy. If the Coadjutor is killed, wouldn't the Infernal eventually grow a new soul to take up the duties and position of the dead Coadjutor? Thereby restoring the Infernal's Coadjutor Background and the dependent Charms?
Would something like that work or would you still consider it to be losing something irreplaceable and thus disallow it?
You've mentioned several times that you wouldn't allow the ability to bring other people into the Devil Domain or to bring the Coadjutor out on the basis that it puts an irreplaceable Background which acts as a prereq for several Charms in danger of getting splattered by someone with Spirit Killers. Which is fairly sensible.
But I've been wondering, is it really irreplaceable? The Coadjutor is the Infernal's Fourth Soul and part of their soul hierarchy. If it, or another soul, gets hit by a Spirit Killer they're dead for good. But even an Infernal or a Primordial loses that particular soul for good, they'll eventually grow a replacement sometime later.
It wouldn't be the one that was lost, sure. But it would take up the missing place in the soul hierarchy. If the Coadjutor is killed, wouldn't the Infernal eventually grow a new soul to take up the duties and position of the dead Coadjutor? Thereby restoring the Infernal's Coadjutor Background and the dependent Charms?
Would something like that work or would you still consider it to be losing something irreplaceable and thus disallow it?
No, because the Coadjutor isn't a natural part of the Infernal.
Humans can't just 'grow' demons inside their souls. In addition you'd go from having an ancient knowledgeable demon with reliable information on the demon city and a network of friends to a new born pup who is of no value to the Infernal. The Coadjutor rating isn't just about what they can do for you, its also a measure of the demons potency itself.
No, they won't. You may be generalising Kerisgame too much. Pantheon-keyworded Charms mean that all Infernals will bud souls, yes. But unless they specifically invest in the Charmtech to awaken and empower them, those souls stay insensate and foetal by default; non-sapient organs in the Infernal's metabiology. Not a fully intelligent Coadjutor. Even with the assumption that another soul can step in and replace the coadjutor - which I personally wouldn't be happy with - putting it at risk forces the Infernal to go into Pantheon-boosting Charmtech to replace it if it's killed.
No, they won't. You may be generalising Kerisgame too much. Pantheon-keyworded Charms mean that all Infernals will bud souls, yes. But unless they specifically invest in the Charmtech to awaken and empower them, those souls stay insensate and foetal by default; non-sapient organs in the Infernal's metabiology. Not a fully intelligent Coadjutor. Even with the assumption that another soul can step in and replace the coadjutor - which I personally wouldn't be happy with - putting it at risk forces the Infernal to go into Pantheon-boosting Charmtech to replace it if it's killed.
