General Exalted Thread
- Location
- The sixth circle of Hell (second on weekends)
- Pronouns
- She/Her
That was my idea, dude. Because I wanted a version of that Mage-style Background that's a giant pile of occult junk. Any Exalt can break into a Solar tomb and steal literally everything there; Keris just finds it a bit easier to carry them around. But Solar Keris could have done it without much more difficulty if she had a cart or covered wagon on hand.
And since you still have to summon your own souls, there is not actually that much difference between your souls, and those of Hell that you've just, you know, made friends with using your bullshit-high social pools and Charms.
Except, of course, that the latter will be more powerful and have more infrastructure and resources.
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FSDD doesn't give you any devas. The "deva tree" starts with Titanic Spawn Uncountable (which is incidentally a General Charm, not anything linked to the Devil Domain). It, of course, snaps the game in half that you can spend 4 hours once a day at Essence 3 to spawn an unbound 1CD, and can't use this on any day that you've summoned another demon and vice versa. The same theme of "there's absolutely no precedent for these mechanics" continues with Titanic Heart Overweening. Why, there's absolutely no parallel in the game for the capacity of someone with Essence 4 to, on the night of the new moon, summon an unbound 2CD. None whatsoever.
I mean, apart from Demon of the Second Circle. And using a thaumaturgy ritual to beckon a 2CD.
This is what Aaron Peori apparently hasn't noticed. The intent behind the demon charmtech native to Infernals is intended to be balanced against demon summoning by being equivalent to it - and if they're majorly differently, I fucked up and missed something and so will need to patch the Charms. The first charm lets you make 1CDs at E3, the second one lets you turn your feelings into 2CDs on the new moon at E4, and that means that at E5, it'd let you upgrade one of your souls to a 3CD at Calibration (and since Infernals can't bind 3CDs, it's unbindable and you'll need to persuade it to help you since it has its own motivation and goals much like a normal 3CD).
Oh, certainly, it's probably easier to persuade the 3CD version to like you and help you, if you invested the time and effort and did nice things for them when they were younger. Because that means you have a pre-existing relationship and they might well see you as a parent. But bluntly, if Keris put as much effort into buttering up the Unquestionable as she did for slice of life comedy with her own souls, the demon princes would probably be a lot better inclined to her and have stronger pre-existing relationships.
The way that FSDD interacts with the deva tree is it gives you a place where your devas go if they're banished, and you can retrieve things from it with normal demon summoning as well as the equivalent-to-it mechanisms that the Charms give. That's all. When I said it's your pokécomputer, I wasn't beating around the bush. There are rules for how things can get in and out of it, and you certainly can't just shout "unleash the demonic hordes" and turn everything loose in there free. No, you can make 1CDs once a day, 2CDs on the new moon, and 3CDs at Calibration - at exactly the same essence levels you need to summon them.
(The 3CD option is, admittedly, the one I'm least sure of. I'm fairly certain that the 1CD and 2CD options are balanced with their traditional summoning equivalents. Might scrap that E5/Enlightenment 10 Charm, or add extra constraints so there's some kind of cost to keeping your 3CDs in Creation. At a mechanical level it's equivalent to the Infernal summoning option - actually slightly worse as you can only do it at Calibration, rather than just the night of the full moon - but the soft-balance consequences of your souls being easier to coax into helping you and wanting things that are at least related to what you want are more problematic.)
In fact, there's only one thing which breaks the RAW rules I wrote for how things can get in and out of the Devil Domain in Kerisgame and that's her Demonic Familiar. Which uses the normal Demonic Familiar rules, but with references to Malfeas replaced with her soul. And, sure, you could kick up a fuss that a single 1CD has found a hairline fracture so that it can travel between her soul and the outer world using the same mechanics for how a 1CD Demonic Familiar can travel between Malfeas and where you are at will, but there's probably better uses of your time.
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Now I want to see Keris try to talk Ululaya out of her grudge against Sasi, only for Ululaya to demand Keris' help in getting a date with Ligier, which sends Haneyl into a jealous fit.
Dulmea plays dramatic music in the background.
As a more general question: If you learned the Titanic Heart charms to spawn 2CDs, but didn't have FSDD and your deva got banished to Malfeas, would they be able to survive in there or would there be a general "kill the heretical spirit" hunt going on?
Basically my question is: What does the establishment think of all this crazy new stuff? Lilunu was able to tell that Keris was spawning souls IIRC, but does she suspect just how far they can go?
frozenchicken
Does not have a custom title.
The fact powergamers can try to deliberately misinterpret the charm in hopes of getting Primordial-tier allies is a valid complaint, but rephrasing it so that the actual intent is clear isn't anywhere near as hard as you're making it out to be.
Also, roleplaying =/= social stuff. It's pretty obvious from the way you rag on 'twee moe waifus' that you have zero interest in immersion-based stuff like character development via interaction with emotionally central side characters, but it doesn't change the fact there's more to social Exalted than how many dots you have in Charisma and your relevant social charms. Will all players will enjoy the kind of interactions that make best use of FSDD? No, but that isn't determined by the player's stats, just personal interests.
Saying it's bad because not everyone has social charms is like saying a charm that deals extra damage to Fae is poorly designed because some people really dislike playing games that involve Raksha.
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Sucal
The Devil’s Cut
- Location
- Bottom of the barrel
People take intimacies that aren't "MDV FIST anyone that tries to influence me"?
- Location
- The sixth circle of Hell (second on weekends)
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Banishment doesn't send your 2CDs to Malfeas, it just sends them back into dreaming Intimacies in your soul that have continuity of self if you summon them again (though 1CDs it just destroys).
As for the establishment, they haven't yet had to rule on it. Thus far, they appear to be agreeable to the notion that the Infernals are "merely" budding Second Circle souls in the same manner as an Unquestionable. Keris sort of vaguely suspects this might not be the case, but is not stupid enough to say so out loud, and any Infernals who know for a fact that they've budded more than seven souls are doing likewise. If and when Keris (or any other Infernal, but in Kerisgame she'll probably be the first) learns Titanic Heart Overweening and externalises one of them as a 2CD, she'll probably get dragged in front of a Tribunal to rule on their status and set a precedent.
(and then when she upgrades them to 3CD status, she'll get dragged in front of another, much less friendly one)
Sucal
The Devil’s Cut
- Location
- Bottom of the barrel
I'm guessing something similar happens if she ever got Chartreuse Coronary Ignition.
I do wonder about those charms, how they interact with Titanic Heart charms. Do they spawn unique devas, or have you folded them into Titanic Heart entirely?
Sucal
The Devil’s Cut
- Location
- Bottom of the barrel
I'd assume at least that they would be separate Deva that are much more directly Liger/Malfeas flavored, considering they reside wholey within his tree. I'd also assume that he himself has a few expansions that would have lead to his second fetich as the Holy Tyrant. So the Titanic Heart devas would be 'you' flitered through a lens of the inspiring charms, while Chartreuse Coronary Ignition is Ligier filtered through a lens of you (And similar for other similar charms you might pick up.)
Feature, not bug. No action required.
No, seriously. For the lighter-hearted kind of Infernals game, with our revised structure to the All-Thing it is in fact a design intent that the Third Circles will spend quite a bit of time using the Infernals against each other in grand elaborate telenovella-esque schemes. So, yes, there is a good chance that in that kind of game if you want a favour from Ululaya you'll find yourself being sent across Creation to hunt down rare flowers some of which become extinct after you pluck them (culminating in having to slay a plant-based behemoth) because she wants to offer him a bouquet.
(In such a game, the reason the Infernals go rogue may well be because they're sick of being involved in elaborate schemes by about half the Third Circles to court Ligier.)
Honestly, I tend to depict the Third Circles as... well, basically the Olympian gods. So, you know. Petty as hell.
At the moment, they have no clue how far things are going to go. Keris is one of the Infernals at the cutting edge of 'yo, doing weird things with my soul'. Sasi found it harder than Keris to do it because while Sasi is a better occultist than Keris, she doesn't "live" it in the same way - she's too academic.
- They know Infernals can spawn First Circles. That is entirely unsurprising, as there's a lot of ways to spawn First Circles.
- They know Infernals can get new souls. This is entirely unsurprising to the Unquestionables, because having lots of souls is the normal state of affairs for a properly self-aware being in their eyes
- They don't know of any Infernals who have souls with actual power. Some Third Circles have hypothesised that Infernals may well bud souls who may be akin to sublimati or weak Second Circles. On the other hand, other Third Circles suspect Infernal souls will be like Lilunu's, sessile and braindead and sickly from the blended essence types.
Incidentally?
Hilariously counterproductive to spawn a deva whose core principle is "My own mind is sacrosanct" and then attempt to compel it to do things. At best, you might wind up being punched in the face by your own soul.
"How dare you! I made you!"
"Do you think just because you made something, you own it? I will never be your slave! Never!"
(Panopoly Charms include "physical counterattack against social attacks" and "clone of Joy in Violence Approach")
Obsolete Charmtech. I wrote it before I wrote the Pantheon stuff, and it's sort of my early prototype scrabbling towards those ideas. Tag it with deprecated.
On the "Unleash the Demonic Hordes" point.
How do you classify Hellstriders? Being able to go "I summon my
greensun
You shall all burn beneath my light!!!
Hell-Striders dont't count as demons anymore, per the rules, so normal summoning spells don't work.
However, there are already War-Strider Summoning Spells for Solars in the Adamant Sorcery and for the Abyssals at the Void Necromancy, so there is nothing stopping an Infernal developing a spell that allows them to summon a Hell-Strider that they own.
Just to reaffirm that, I was totally willing to build up a list of "the kind of stuff that First Age Solars are actually buried with". I was going to go through lists of Egyptian burial goods, and then convert their equivalents into sci-fi future stuff. There are totally things like High First Age food preparation devices, games and fancy chopsticks. Most of the stuff in there isn't weaponry - and most of the weapons and armour are examples of formal dress uniforms, rather than ultra "high tech" weapons.
(Which is actually to the benefit of Second Age players, because while there's no way most players have the resources to maintain Orokin-esque battlesuits, someone's formal dress uniform of orichalcum plate is actually a fully functional suit of orichalcum plate as well as being very shiny and pretty.)
But we decided that given that most of the stuff in there only had conditional use, it would probably be easier to convert it into a background. So she gets to roll to see if there's some kind of useful thing, treating the background as a floating pool of Artefact points within the valid categories.
It is blatantly a game mechanics thing, but Kerisgame also resolves combat against mook enemies in one roll. This lets Keris have a hoard of useful shiny things, without having to play some boring game of micro-managing an inventory which neither of us want to do.
Ah, one of my longer term plans is to build a single system which covers warstriders, hellstriders, First Circles, akuma, Solar automata, Dragonblooded golems, Lunar were-creatures, people that Sidereals have woven heavy Destinies on, necrotech, and so on. At the stage when Infernals are making their own 1CDs, Solars are making iron-age automata with the names of the gods in the shrine in their head, fuelled by the sacred-fire in their chest and Abyssals are stitching together corpse golems and Sidereals are buffing their pawns through carefully stacked layers of Destinies - and the end the result is that you have an E1-3ish creature that uses Spirit Charms and has a few Spirit excellencies in its field of speciality. And the same expands upwards.
Hence, "An Infernal pulls out their akuma-hellstrider from within their soul" is precisely equivalent to "A Lunar unleashes a giant wolf-monster by filling their faithful doggy companion with silver power" and "A necromancer pulls all of the corpses on the battlefield into one giant shambling monster as tall as a castle" and requires similar investment. Which is to say, it's probably a Sapphire Circle spell to summon your weapons system and it requires a ritual. The Hellstrider is probably more powerful than the other two, but requires you to actually have built a Hellstrider beforehand, the Lunar one uses your Familiar as the basis, and the Abyssal one falls apart at the end of the scene and gets stronger the more people have died in this battle.
Or something. Like I said, long term plan.
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vicky_molokh
Posthuman spidery thingy.
- Location
- Kyïv, Ukraine
Speaking of First Age tombs and stuff . . . I have a couple of questions related to metaphysics and history of the setting.
First:
A better-prepared Solar (NPC) managed to take over Denandsor long before we were ready to even try. So we ended up negotiating with him in an old Solar Negotiation Room (Artifact ??). The GM's intent for the room's effect was to prevent uses of Charms to mess with negotiators, but the way he declared it (it was past midnight IRL), he accidentally my Perfect Defense (Sagacious Reading of Intent); no, there was no tragic consequences, as the statement was rather mild anyway. Now, upon me pointing out that a method of shutting down a character's charms including even PDs with no shackling up, no saving throws no nothing is gonna have nasty consequences, he agreed that he doesn't want to break the setting and that the wording was a bit vague and likely got the wrong result. A revision of the artifact room's effect is pending, and as of yet I have no idea what the precise effect will be.
However, all of this makes me wonder: are there any canonical sources (and how precise/coherent/etc. are they) regarding the way the issue of Charms in the 'parliament building' of the Solar Deliberative was handled? I mean, IIRC the closest WW analogy, the Elysium from VtM, has some sort of ban on discipline use. But how was that handled by First Age Solar Deliberates in a similar situation? IMHO the best place to draw the line of acceptability is the NMI/UMI split, but still things aren't always clear-cut. Was it expected that everyone should have their own defences just in case, or were the Solars using magitech/artifacts for the defense occasionally/always?
Second:
Said Solar NPC mentioned the idea that sometimes Solars behave inappropriately; I think the word he used was 'insane'. To me, that looked like skidding too close to knowing the effect of the Great Curse, but of course not the reason/nature of it. Others saw no such thing in his words. I requested an OOC/metagame discussion of what is and isn't a possible line of thinking for an Exalt regarding insanities and the Curse after the game. After some thinking, the GM ruled that as per canon, nobody knows about the Great Curse, but if an Exalt sees another Exalt behave deranged (e.g. paranoia, anger issues, schizophrenia whatever), then the witness can make any reasonable psychological conslusions as long as she doesn't suspect the reason of said behaviour to be something as special as the Great Curse.
So, Creation May Vary, but what's the canonical situation regarding the Great Curse's elusiveness, and what's the community consensus regarding said situation?
Thanks in advance!
First:
A better-prepared Solar (NPC) managed to take over Denandsor long before we were ready to even try. So we ended up negotiating with him in an old Solar Negotiation Room (Artifact ??). The GM's intent for the room's effect was to prevent uses of Charms to mess with negotiators, but the way he declared it (it was past midnight IRL), he accidentally my Perfect Defense (Sagacious Reading of Intent); no, there was no tragic consequences, as the statement was rather mild anyway. Now, upon me pointing out that a method of shutting down a character's charms including even PDs with no shackling up, no saving throws no nothing is gonna have nasty consequences, he agreed that he doesn't want to break the setting and that the wording was a bit vague and likely got the wrong result. A revision of the artifact room's effect is pending, and as of yet I have no idea what the precise effect will be.
However, all of this makes me wonder: are there any canonical sources (and how precise/coherent/etc. are they) regarding the way the issue of Charms in the 'parliament building' of the Solar Deliberative was handled? I mean, IIRC the closest WW analogy, the Elysium from VtM, has some sort of ban on discipline use. But how was that handled by First Age Solar Deliberates in a similar situation? IMHO the best place to draw the line of acceptability is the NMI/UMI split, but still things aren't always clear-cut. Was it expected that everyone should have their own defences just in case, or were the Solars using magitech/artifacts for the defense occasionally/always?
Second:
Said Solar NPC mentioned the idea that sometimes Solars behave inappropriately; I think the word he used was 'insane'. To me, that looked like skidding too close to knowing the effect of the Great Curse, but of course not the reason/nature of it. Others saw no such thing in his words. I requested an OOC/metagame discussion of what is and isn't a possible line of thinking for an Exalt regarding insanities and the Curse after the game. After some thinking, the GM ruled that as per canon, nobody knows about the Great Curse, but if an Exalt sees another Exalt behave deranged (e.g. paranoia, anger issues, schizophrenia whatever), then the witness can make any reasonable psychological conslusions as long as she doesn't suspect the reason of said behaviour to be something as special as the Great Curse.
So, Creation May Vary, but what's the canonical situation regarding the Great Curse's elusiveness, and what's the community consensus regarding said situation?
Thanks in advance!
Well, bluntly, I don't see a reason why the empirical effects of the Great Curse shouldn't be known about - and come with pre-existing rationalisations.
So, people who know things about Solars know that the passions of Solars are greater than mortal men. Since their Virtue Flaws are an innate part of them, merely exaggerated by the Limit Break, then it's something they've always struggled with. The Solar with Heart of Tears has always found suffering hard to watch, but now as a Solar they find their heart breaking and all they can do is sob. Which is clearly just a consequence of being a Solar and mightier than mortal men - just as they're stronger, faster and tougher, they also feel emotions more strongly. People who've studied Solars also know that they find having magic that used with their mind stressful, and that if they're hit with it repeatedly, they're prone to temporary fits of madness as their passions flare. Which is, again, something which is totally understandable considering that they just had UMI used on them. Of course it's stressful, using the willpower of a hero to fight off such a thing.
(The Immaculates argue that this is just the madness that comes from the Anathema getting their power from demons, and so is 100% natural for a demon-possessed tyrant who has to be put down because they're a mad demon possessed tyrant)
Same as Dragonblooded. The Realm knows for a fact that the Terrestrial Exalted are just so full of power and elemental essence that sometimes their raw elements overwhelms the balanced chi of a sane human mind. No wonder they act in a way which has their Aspect dominating when their chi gets out of balance. The way to prevent this is to live a well-balanced life in accordance with the Immaculate Faith, not indulge to excess, and treat your fellow man in the proper way for their status.
And so on and so forth. Limit Breaks are clearly observable, so people will have noticed their empirical causes and the things that set them off. The Solar with Overindulgence has always known that it's hard work resisting vices and they have a temptation to just relax and go on a bender - so they try to keep away from their vices, but if they're forced to pass them over they will eventually sucumb. However, simply, there's no reason to attribute them to some 'great curse'. Not least, every Exalt alive today has never known any way of being different. Perhaps some of the Primordial War veterans might have got a creeping dread of some way the Exalted were... off, but old memories obscured by time and bloodshed are unreliable. So as far as anyone else is aware, they're just a natural part of being an Exalt.
Imrix
Periodically Malevolent QM
Not to my knowledge. I suspect they simply didn't, and if you turned up to a building full of supernaturally persuasive orators gearing up to debate, you did so expecting to be exposed to supernaturally effective persuasion.
Well, presumably they sat down and discussed the rules on the kinds of social charms they were allowed to use.
Surprisingly, the people advocating more free use of social charms were far more persuasive and so it was self-evident that they should be generally allowed.
- Location
- Quezon City, Philippines
@EarthScorpion
Is the final charm of your Pantheon Heresy, Titanic Soul Invincible I think the name was, available somewhere?
Is the final charm of your Pantheon Heresy, Titanic Soul Invincible I think the name was, available somewhere?
- Location
- Library
And all the rest quickly developed ways toguard their convictions. So persuading the First Age Solar to change his mind became almost impossible.
- Location
- Virginia
How much of all the "Infernals are budding Primordial souls" and whatnot is in the actual soucebooks, and how much of it is homebrew/fanon? Which books / charms should I look at to see the base game articulation of this concept, without all the extra interpretation of the fanbase?
I quit reading MoEP: Infernals after the first chapter... I know the stuff after chapters 1-2 is supposed to be good, but I really was turned off by that.
I quit reading MoEP: Infernals after the first chapter... I know the stuff after chapters 1-2 is supposed to be good, but I really was turned off by that.
So, Splatoon is cool. Therefore, I wanted to make Splatoon weapons into artifact weapons for Exalted, because I loved the idea of a Dragonsigh Wand that spat ink (paint) at people.
SPLATTERSHOT
A Dragonsigh Wand (Artifact Firewand) that shoots self-replenishing stores of ink colored like the user's anima. It cannot perform decisive attacks, but can perform ranged gambits for disarming, blinding, gagging, or suffocating (blinding and gagging) a target. Can also knock back and knockdown (Smashing tag). Painting an entire range band's worth of surfaces is a miscellaneous action which may be flurried without penalty to either action when making an attack or gambit against a target in that range band. The ink reserves can be supplemented if the user can produce ink, but they also refill faster when the user is standing in an inked range band. Obviously, this weapon is completely incompatible with the conventional version of Righteous Devil Style.
Roller-style brushes could be another ink artifact weapon, though these could actually inflict bashing damage since you can bash someone over the head with them.
All of the ink weapons are possessed of competitive but playful spirits, such that their Evocations are not readily turned to killing except in self-defense. They are primarily weapons of pacification and sportsmanship.
A Dragonsigh Wand (Artifact Firewand) that shoots self-replenishing stores of ink colored like the user's anima. It cannot perform decisive attacks, but can perform ranged gambits for disarming, blinding, gagging, or suffocating (blinding and gagging) a target. Can also knock back and knockdown (Smashing tag). Painting an entire range band's worth of surfaces is a miscellaneous action which may be flurried without penalty to either action when making an attack or gambit against a target in that range band. The ink reserves can be supplemented if the user can produce ink, but they also refill faster when the user is standing in an inked range band. Obviously, this weapon is completely incompatible with the conventional version of Righteous Devil Style.
Roller-style brushes could be another ink artifact weapon, though these could actually inflict bashing damage since you can bash someone over the head with them.
All of the ink weapons are possessed of competitive but playful spirits, such that their Evocations are not readily turned to killing except in self-defense. They are primarily weapons of pacification and sportsmanship.
When thinking about Evocations for such an artifact, my mind immediately looked to the connection between the Krak-On Roller and the Kraken super-weapon. I thought that was cool, but that such a transformation seemed a bit out-of-line for an Evocation, if only because it meant you couldn't use the Artifact itself while transformed. It seemed very internally-oriented, rather than based on a connection between user and weapon.
If I wanted to translate the Kraken form into Exalted, I said, I would need to use Martial Arts! Dreaming Pearl Courtesan provides a precedent with Invoking the Chimera's Coils.
So I began designing a Martial Art Style based around cephalopods (octopi, squids) and ink, with some grappling because tentacles and big tentacled Kraken forms rushing into close range with the enemy. The capstone would borrow a lot from Kimbery's All-Devouring Depths Shintai, turning you into a big, oozing blob of living ink. There might also be an Ichor Flux Tendril / Magma Kraken sort of thing, for turning puddles of ink into masses of tentacles to help you fight.
But I sort of stalled, because that wasn't quite enough. There wasn't a real "physical technique" basis for the pre-Form Charms, especially since I wasn't willing to commit to an emphasis on sneak attacks and ambushes -- hiding yourself bodily in pools of ink would be distinctly post-Form.
So I started asking myself, "What sort of wrestling could possibly fit this idea?"
Oh, yeah.
Hakan's oil actually works like armor for him? Oil Armor Protection -- a Charm that works like Pearlescent Filigree Defense, turning the liquid that coats your body and soaks your clothes into the equivalent of light mundane armor. And what Inkling doesn't eventually end up coated in ink, whether their own or from their enemies?
Oil obviously makes you hard to handle? Slippery Oil Defense -- a reflexive Charm that can boost your parry or your grappling control roll, as your opponents' weapons and hands glance right off of you. Useful for those who want to grapple or avoid being grappled!
Hakan's Oil Slide (throwing himself on his belly [going prone]) in order to cover ground more quickly makes a nice starting place to lead up into the post-Form Inkling Charm that lets you run faster over a surface coated in a slippery substance, and also the Charm that lets you swim invisibly through even a thin layer of that substance!
(I decided that "turn invisible" is really "you sublimate into your oil armor, becoming a really thin, mobile puddle that must travel on the SURFACE of a liquid." This prevents people from becoming untouchable should they have access to deep pools of oil, ink, water, whatever. And even though you're hard to see and really thin, you are just as vulnerable to damage.)
Hakan's Oil Dive? Modeled as a Throw/Slam attack where the grappler happens to travel ALONG with the victim, ending up in the same range-band.
Hakan's Oil Rocket? A Savaging attack that reflexively creates a Throw/Slam action based on how hard you were able to squeeze the victim. Might work like Heaven Thunder Hammer in that regard, especially given that victims are generally rocketed upwards, where they can crash into a ceiling before hitting the ground. There's shades of Crashing Wave Throw in that, in SF4, this move deals less damage the farther out you shoot someone, which could be a function of this Charm or else achieved by allowing a combo with Brawl Charms like Crashing Wave Throw.
Hakan's Supers are basically just fancier versions of his other moves which are provided by stunts and combos with other Charms.
What do you guys think? Does Squid Style sound interesting?
Or do you think that Hakan's Turkish Oil Wrestling is better translated with something like Greased Pig Style?
Dynamesmouse
Bzzzzzz
The last part of Broken Winged Crane goes into the Devil Tiger Ascension, but it's all high essence stuff.
Walker of the Yellow Path
Ho There!
- Location
- The Land of Memes
The Broken Winged Crane, an expansion book for the Infernals, has the canon version for Infernals turning into a Primordial, the Charm Tree starting with Triumphant Howl of the Devil Tiger. The Unfortunate thing is that it's an exp sink that's really not worth it, and also requires Essence 6+.
ES's Pantheon Homebrew is an attempt by him to make a version of the turning into a Primordial thing that can actually happen during play for a typical Exalted Game.