- Location
- Ottawa
Thank you.
General Exalted Thread
- Location
- Ottawa
Jesus Christ, Dif.
Are you seriously offended by the fact that I'm capable of being civil with Holden?
Are you seriously offended by the fact that I'm capable of being civil with Holden?
hls
War hamster
Anyhow, Cat of Many Faces made some character sheets for Exalted vs World of Darkness, if anyone's interested.
- Location
- Australia
You don't have to like Holden, or trust him. You do have to wonder about why some people focus so intently on him, and not any of the people doing the actual abuse or harassment or paying them or hiring them or inviting them to GoH or quietly letting them go rather than sniping at them publicly and banning them.
Because if it is just 'being friends and knowing they hurt people and work with them' then, like I said, that's 90% of this industry.
And, seriously, it is getting to the point where it isn't helping anybody, and certainly isn't actually changing any of the systems that enabled those assholes. While also making it hard for any actual victims of this shit to ever talk about Holden's work because some well meaning person has to jump at him about something John did five years ago.
Because if it is just 'being friends and knowing they hurt people and work with them' then, like I said, that's 90% of this industry.
And, seriously, it is getting to the point where it isn't helping anybody, and certainly isn't actually changing any of the systems that enabled those assholes. While also making it hard for any actual victims of this shit to ever talk about Holden's work because some well meaning person has to jump at him about something John did five years ago.
Violation of Thread Policy
The problem with thinking that Civil is the end-all-be-all is that it upholds No-Conflict as some kind of highfalutin' virtue, when really this whole shtick is just Holden trying his damnedest to convince everyone to like him again, to forgive and forget like shit never happened. "Be the better man" and all that shit, "why dredge up the past," "who are we to judge" and all that similar kinda reaching hands across the world claptrap that mostly serves to let people off with a slap on the wrist for majorly fucking up. That was all him posting here was ever going to be, sneaking in on the wings of a quick plug and hoping to get out with some skin intact and maybe rub off some of the rough edges that haven't been worn down through time and honestly not knowing what he's even been up too, which makes it real simple not to talk about a person. Rehabilitation by time and distance enough, maybe you'll be lulled enough by him "having suffered for his crimes" to break down and shove a dollar in his Patreon, crowdfunding just like old times.
In the end, all that is happening here is him getting made fun of on the internet, which is the Mildest kind of punishment one can honestly receive for the kind of shit he pulled and was responsible for. He gets up on the center stage to promote his big new clown show, its no fault of mine that he wheeled on in with a goddamn tomato cart and no self-awareness for his actions. If this thread is anything to judge by, he will regardless be lifted up on the hands of people who don't really give a shit about anything but getting the cool new toy they never knew they wanted, and that's worth a couple tomatoes in exchange to my eye. He's got people who have no compunctions about giving him money regardless of what happened or happens, who are fully well and prepared to forget or dismiss or act like all this is blown out of proportion and a couple bad forum posts are going to tank his career in a way that the Kickstarter mess somehow didn't. So he's obviously not going to learn anything now that he didn't then, so trying to talk this out like reasonable adults is a meaningless, masturbatory venture of being the Biggerer Person.
Like, of course you let him talk. "Lets hear both sides," and inevitably big bad boogeyman Rich Thomas is the source of all Holden's woes, as-expected. How fucking hard he totally had it as Ex3 developer, being somehow both wholly ignorant of the situation while also knowing way too much! Its almost like every circumstance conspired to make Holden look a shitheel! And I guess he sort of went along with that because well why not, It's A Living, after all. How sad of a story can he spin for us? Apparently one sad enough, with enough placating gestures and admissions of fault that some folks can finally, at last, feel comfortable consuming his wares again. Ain't that some egg on our faces, guys? Maybe we were Wrong about shit all this time, and all we had to do was listen to Holden's real side of the story and he'd set us right! Why would he lead us around by the nose again. That's absurd, it would be like a double-lie!
Why focus on Holden, right here right now? Because he was the one to made the dumb decision showing up thinking no one would raise a stink about it. Are there other, greater problems to be solved in this industry, in the world? Yes there is, but prodding him in the ass like this isn't taking away from those efforts, no matter much you want to spin this whole thing to be some kind of Tribunal of Meritorious Worth to weigh his very soul on the scales of justice or some shit. Its making sure He doesn't forget why we do this dance either.
In the end, all that is happening here is him getting made fun of on the internet, which is the Mildest kind of punishment one can honestly receive for the kind of shit he pulled and was responsible for. He gets up on the center stage to promote his big new clown show, its no fault of mine that he wheeled on in with a goddamn tomato cart and no self-awareness for his actions. If this thread is anything to judge by, he will regardless be lifted up on the hands of people who don't really give a shit about anything but getting the cool new toy they never knew they wanted, and that's worth a couple tomatoes in exchange to my eye. He's got people who have no compunctions about giving him money regardless of what happened or happens, who are fully well and prepared to forget or dismiss or act like all this is blown out of proportion and a couple bad forum posts are going to tank his career in a way that the Kickstarter mess somehow didn't. So he's obviously not going to learn anything now that he didn't then, so trying to talk this out like reasonable adults is a meaningless, masturbatory venture of being the Biggerer Person.
Like, of course you let him talk. "Lets hear both sides," and inevitably big bad boogeyman Rich Thomas is the source of all Holden's woes, as-expected. How fucking hard he totally had it as Ex3 developer, being somehow both wholly ignorant of the situation while also knowing way too much! Its almost like every circumstance conspired to make Holden look a shitheel! And I guess he sort of went along with that because well why not, It's A Living, after all. How sad of a story can he spin for us? Apparently one sad enough, with enough placating gestures and admissions of fault that some folks can finally, at last, feel comfortable consuming his wares again. Ain't that some egg on our faces, guys? Maybe we were Wrong about shit all this time, and all we had to do was listen to Holden's real side of the story and he'd set us right! Why would he lead us around by the nose again. That's absurd, it would be like a double-lie!
Why focus on Holden, right here right now? Because he was the one to made the dumb decision showing up thinking no one would raise a stink about it. Are there other, greater problems to be solved in this industry, in the world? Yes there is, but prodding him in the ass like this isn't taking away from those efforts, no matter much you want to spin this whole thing to be some kind of Tribunal of Meritorious Worth to weigh his very soul on the scales of justice or some shit. Its making sure He doesn't forget why we do this dance either.
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- Pronouns
- she/her
Current game.
I'm not going to talk about Celestial Bliss Trick specifically due to the rule, but a different example. You can make a Solar seducer who with a specific combination of charms can overwhelm people with raw social power until they're compelled to sleep with them regardless of their sexual orientation, unless the Red Rule is invoked.
However! That set-up requires at least five charms and either Presence Supernal or Essence 3 to blur the lines of consent in Social Influence as much as you could in Social Combat and obviously, no Red Rule there.
- Location
- Singapore
Can I archive this?
Stop: Hello yes this is your reminder that the thread policy still exists
- Location
- Britain
hello yes this is your reminder that the thread policy still exists
@Dif no matter how strongly you feel about a topic, SV's rules still stand. Take 25 points and a 2 week break from the thread, under Rules 3 & 5.
Also, I'll remind the thread at large that this is the Exalted Megathread, not a soap opera. Keep on topic, please and thank you.
Also, I'll remind the thread at large that this is the Exalted Megathread, not a soap opera. Keep on topic, please and thank you.
mothematics
How wide is the concept of "you"?
- Location
- the bottom of a coffee cup
- Pronouns
- She/Her
so how about them exalted they sure do exalt eh
Eldagusto
Voivode of Neterkhertet
- Location
- The Bleak Shores of Never in the Land of Naught
That's a great idea!
Man I always wanted to play any CWOD game were you were just a vampire slayer and were trying to wipe out all Vampires, even if you were a Vampire.
With a Exalted you could aim for the top and eventually hunt the Antes!
Romv
A Memory of TREES
Sure! I posted a similar thing some time ago as well:
In an effort to actually talk about interesting things over things that are not interesting and likely to lead to drama and/or fires, I'm actually amused by how the Exalt toolkit is basically in broad-strokes similar to what I'd consider the 'mandatory toolkit' for fight wizards, namely:
1. A good chunk of lethal/aggravated soak.
2. Either some way to heal in combat time (effectively giving you extra HLs) or actual HLs.
3. Either a ton of extra actions or huge dice pools or both.
I do think Fire and Stones Strike and Fivefold Bulwark Stance are overtuned somewhat. Yes Solars are supposed to be ludicrously good but... the former can add up to 5lhl to an attack in a game where damage ratings over 8L are rare and difficult to get and basically nobody gets more than 8 health levels without being a NPC or a technocrat using exomuscle. The latter is a persistent defense that frees your ability to attack up freely-again with relatively low dice pools you're looking at the only people being able to contest a Solar being prepped mages running a "fuck you and the dragon you rode in on" combat suite.
I'm mostly fine with that because I'm a mage guy and needing to be absolutely kitted out to face a Solar at those essence levels is fine, but vampires and wuffs have a real hard time throwing down a 20 die combat pool at difficulty 3.
I also believe you said that a Dawn fighting an army should be more guerilla style than just challenging the entire army at once and I think this might undermine that a little bit. Especially since with Ready in Eight directions stance basically letting you instantly vaporize anyone who vaguely looks at your direction if you have a high damage weapon.
I think the easiest fix would be to make them cost an Essence an action to use but I'm wondering about your rationale there.
Also I'm interested in why the Dawn Excellency doesn't also specify "or any appropriate secondary Ability" since M20 has those (like Terrorism the best skill in the game).
On the other hand I think the Dragonblood Elemental Bolt is pretty weak-1 point of a valuable resource for a single 8L attack is eh when you can pick up a high powered rifle or just use a handgun-and indeed Ghost Fire Arsenal lets you do that for similar cost (or get a machinegun and do even more damage).
Aren't "Shovelheads" the guys that they randomly grab, turn, and then throw into an alley during the middle of attacking some public location?
hls
War hamster
F&SS's output-to-XP-cost ratio is absolutely disgusting, agreed, but in terms of absolute output it's doing the same thing as a vampire with Potence.
Fivefold Bulwark Stance is, yes, pretty much the "this is why Solars win" Charm, especially if you goose its activation roll with Excellence of the Rising Sun. It's broken as shit, but it's done intentionally. Dawn Castes are intended to be able to cruise at the "send the entire Primogen council or don't come at all" level. You basically want to try to deal with a guy like this by lighting the room on fire and then holding the door shut with super-strength, boiling the Solar's blood with Thaumaturgy in a way that can't be dodged, or something like that. Otherwise, line up a bunch of brujah or ghouls with smgs on full auto and hope the dice cooperate.
DBs operate at about the level of the rest of the WoD. Solars run roughshod over large portions of it.
Basically the intention is that the Dawn can be Shin-Godzilla soaking up infinite firepower and laying waste to everything for a scene or two, but then they've got Essence flow issues. That lets you make some fairly incredible showpiece battle stands, but it's not great if an entire city is mobilized to run you to ground and is scared enough to level Brooklyn to do it. You will run out of Essence before the Army runs out of grunts or bullets.
Partly because I wanted to emphasize archetypal templates, but mostly because secondary Abilities are such a huge can of worms I didn't want to open them at all. I figured if someone took Archery that any reasonable Storyteller would let Excellence of the Rising Sun cover it, and if they weren't already inclined to go messing with that, I didn't want to encourage it. Messing with secondary Abilities at all is generally accepting a burden of a fair bit of mandatory fiddling in any case.
The real utility of Elemenal Bolt is that you've always got the equivalent of a heavy pistol (that rolls to attack at diff 5), even while completely naked, or a Weatherby Mark V hunting rifle (with, again, better accuracy) for 1 Essence. In the World of Darkness, it is... not really normal for people to walk around carrying African big game hunting rifles, or machineguns. Tends to draw a lot of attention. But you can carry Elemental Bolt into any place in the world without arousing suspicion, and if you just have one shot, you can make it count.
As for Ghost-Fire Arsenal, the drawback there is that it's got no utility at all if you don't spend Essence and use up an action getting it going. Sometimes you don't have that round to throw away, and you need to huck a javelin through someone's head right now.
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Honestly, at least half of the 'mechanical' complaints I've seen about Ex3 in this thread are founded on incorrect understandings about what those mechanics are or mean.
hls
War hamster
Also, for what it's worth, the thing is calibrated around the assumption of mages that are played the way the books suggest mages work and behave, rather than the insane grotesquerie some people manage to get away with in charop exercises. M20 is very loosey-goosey on a lot of rules, but one thing it's fairly clear on is that if something feels like exploitative fuckery, the ST should probably step on it. If I designed for the "completely permissive ST who lets you walk around 24/7 with all your stats sitting at 8 with precognitive danger sense and all difficulties cranked down to 3 with no meaningful consequences" version of Mage, none of the other WoD titles would get to play at all (and frankly neither would most of the mages).
- Location
- United States
I mean regardless of anything else, i totally 100% agree with this regarding mage and how they're played vs how they're intended to be played
- Location
- Denmark
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Ghost-Fire Arsenal is a Dragon-Blooded Charm, not a Solar Charm. Page 63, Fire Charms. Three dots even, so it's the same level.
I mean that's not really true here-the books have mages doing Matrix nonsense in the stories and eating bullets all the time and one of the Akashic Revised character concepts is basically "Superman who wonders why paradox keeps happening to them."
Reminder that Mage is the only oWoD line to have, as written, a merit that just lets you say "I am immune to all damage except one unique source with no drawbacks" and lets you buy it at chargen-and this is from the lower powered Revised Mage.
It's also a game where you have sidebars like "what if the players want to crash the moon into the Earth" and people hated Revised because it stopped them from doing the most ludicrous Umbral nonsense so...
hls
War hamster
So it is. I have clearly not gotten enough sleep. Edited post accordingly.
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greensun
You shall all burn beneath my light!!!
The Solar becomes a master of hidden meaning, coding messages inside messages that only reveal themselves to those she wishes. System: The Lunar can shift her coloration to match her environment, becoming difficult to detect. The difficulty of all Stealth rolls is lowered by 2. For 1 Essence, she can intensify this capability for one scene, making her functionally invisible so long as she moves no faster than a slow walk and doesn't make any sudden, violent motions, which obviate the illusion.
AshenFox
Copy Control, we are a go.
- Location
- Sector 13
That's literally exactly what I did.
I've run literally ONE game of Exalted since 3E came out. It went on for a little while and then life got in the way and then other things happened and now I just don't feel comfortable continuing the game even if I could get it started up again.
Even so I still bought Arms of the Chosen and I'll likely still buy What Fire Has Wrought. Why? Because every book gives insight on the version of the setting. It gives new and creative ideas that can spark imagination. Without Arms of the Chosen when I describe Warstriders to new players I wouldn't be able to go, "OK, you remember G Gundam?
They're kind of like that."
What, no MS Paint?
hls
War hamster
What, no MS Paint?
I'm a cave man, not an animal.