I was vaguely thinking of fiddling the distances to make it a proper Mediterranean style area
This is basically what I use the Dreaming Sea for in me and @horngeek's Dilaragame, I'll note. Of course then I instantaneously throw that away by making Ysyr into magical Babylon and having creepy white-gold derelicts drift through the sea from a long-forgotten age, which the various factions are still fighting over but still! The principle remains!
 
This is basically what I use the Dreaming Sea for in me and @horngeek's Dilaragame, I'll note. Of course then I instantaneously throw that away by making Ysyr into magical Babylon and having creepy white-gold derelicts drift through the sea from a long-forgotten age, which the various factions are still fighting over but still! The principle remains!

The dreaming sea is pretty huge. By the map tool I have it's about twice the med, so there's plenty of space for both.
 
I guess what I'm getting at here is that my definition is not for homebrew or a prompt- but instead one of design and development. What is the goal of Magitech, both as a gameplay element and a setting element, and build from there.

Mm, I feel like, if you want to go with the industrialization stuff, just go balls deep into it.

As a gameplay element, I think magitech should be in the dilution of Exalted power to apply across larger scales. Magitech isn't in the aesthetics of an object or any particular characteristic or capability; it's in the process used to make that object mass producible.

Compare hand copied documents versus the printing press in the ye olden days*. Priests made these gorgeous works of art by putting in weeks and years and blood, sweat and tears and the results were amazing. The printing press churned out huge amounts of sparsely decorated documents that still served their purpose i.e. to communicate their message.

*I know very little about the ye olden days.

I guess the closest comparison I can draw is with Warhammer 40,000 and the Adeptus Mechanicus. A high ranking tech-priest could put all of their effort into creating a gorgeous artifact lasgun fit for a Chapter Master or they could spend that effort on increasing the average quality of a few hundred thousand lasguns through their supervision.

To take your example:

Like- why can't I make a sentient wind chime with Craft Air that acts as a personal assistant? The only reason right now is 'Because sentient artifacts are Magitech'.

Under this model, you totally could create a personal assistant with your Craft skills. Alternatively, you could create a whole bunch of reminder machines for your officers to help them keep on track with Craft: Magitech in conjunction with those same skills.

Does this paradigm make sense at all?
 
Mm, I feel like, if you want to go with the industrialization stuff, just go balls deep into it.

As a gameplay element, I think magitech should be in the dilution of Exalted power to apply across larger scales. Magitech isn't in the aesthetics of an object or any particular characteristic or capability; it's in the process used to make that object mass producible.

Compare hand copied documents versus the printing press in the ye olden days*. Priests made these gorgeous works of art by putting in weeks and years and blood, sweat and tears and the results were amazing. The printing press churned out huge amounts of sparsely decorated documents that still served their purpose i.e. to communicate their message.

*I know very little about the ye olden days.

I guess the closest comparison I can draw is with Warhammer 40,000 and the Adeptus Mechanicus. A high ranking tech-priest could put all of their effort into creating a gorgeous artifact lasgun fit for a Chapter Master or they could spend that effort on increasing the average quality of a few hundred thousand lasguns through their supervision.

To take your example:

Under this model, you totally could create a personal assistant with your Craft skills. Alternatively, you could create a whole bunch of reminder machines for your officers to help them keep on track with Craft: Magitech in conjunction with those same skills.

Does this paradigm make sense at all?

It makes sense, sure- I'm not aiming to make a judgement as to which is better though. Exalted as a setting/premise does celebrate the 'singular wonder' over the mass produced- insofar as one is mythic because it's a wonder, the other is mythic because mass-production is itself legendary in context.

Another discussion elsewhere offered this grain of insight: "Magitech is artifice that requires more Essence than a single individual can conveniently or practically supply'. I.E. requires Hearthstones or narrative/mechanical equivalent. Note that this is not meant to say that Magitech requires the significant 'dot tax' that 2e presented. I'm not even near tackling a system or mechanics if ever. But it is a useful point.

Like, mechanically- we have to further ask the question: What does Magitech do/why are we spending X + Y dots to Get Magitech? 2e offered the kludge of 'you are getting More Mechanical Oomph' in exchange, but this is largely unsatisfying.
 
Like, mechanically- we have to further ask the question: What does Magitech do/why are we spending X + Y dots to Get Magitech? 2e offered the kludge of 'you are getting More Mechanical Oomph' in exchange, but this is largely unsatisfying.
Not sure if you felt it was redundant or if you just didn't see it, but I feel like my earlier point has some relevance here:

My take would be that magitech is the point where the artifact focuses more on enhancing the Exalt or the effects and abilities of the artifact in of itself, than on the artifact acting as an extension of the Exalt's power. Using the artifact becomes an end unto itself, in most cases. For example, artifact superheavy plate is used to provide the Exalt with protection, but you use a warstrider to use a warstrider.

Another definition could be an artifact that shapes and manipulates Essence rather than acting as a conductor or conduit for it -- such is the difference between a goremaul and a power mace, for example.
 
This:

You can be old as balls as an Exalt, and unless you really, really stretch out your life span, your skills, body, and mental faculties will not meaningfully degrade. The only example of such a thing happening was a Dragon-Blooded, and he had lived for about a two and a half millennia when the average DB lifespan is a couple centuries.
Wouldn't that kind of imply that part of the Exalted package is perfect memory on some level if the Exalted just manage to retain 100% of their skills like that? I've never seen that imply that the Exalted by default have
eidetic memory.
 
...Do I want to know?
I turn you to some of @Revlid's finest rage-prose:

I quite agree that someone in the making process was a nasty person - but I'd look to the writers rather than the Yozis. Notably, there's a writing credit for the same guy who wrote the Ma-Ha-Suchi rape camp so large it required a pocket dimension, and the Underworld rape camp built for rapists, by rapists, out of rapists, so rape victims could rape rapists inside rapists.
 
Like, mechanically- we have to further ask the question: What does Magitech do/why are we spending X + Y dots to Get Magitech? 2e offered the kludge of 'you are getting More Mechanical Oomph' in exchange, but this is largely unsatisfying.

The industrialisation idea would have to interface with systems that actually determined mass scale stuff. Magitech would have significant impact on the quality of life for mortals in any field it was turned towards.

While certainly, there would be improvements in dice, I was thinking that the main improvements would be in the infrastructure. A hypothetical system would be that large scale organisations can buy Charms (patterns of behavior) themselves. To buy these Charms, the society requires A) a economic, poltical or social incentive to change and B) prerequisite institutional knowledge or infrastructure.

Here, magitech would be a part of the infrastructure or could potentially be used to generate incentive.

(as a side note, should Bureaucracy have something like Sorcerous Workings to represent large scale alterations to a society?)

All of this is just a complicated way of saying, the printing press incentives education which them opens up doors for qualitative change in the society it interacts with.

Similarly, more efficient farming tools and education allow for more people in cities which also opens up doors for change and growth.

I know this is kinda incoherent burbling but does it give an impression of how I think magitech would impact things?
 
I think that water would be good cover against ranged attacks. That way, a solar could totally jump into the ocean to stay safe whenever the Wyld Hunt brings enough archers.

One of the Clutch of Dragons War charms lets the user extend some of their anima powers to the troops they're commanding.

In the case of water aspects, their ability to move freely underwater.

So, in this case, jumping into the water wouldn't let you stay safe because that's where the archers were shooting you from in the first place.

No no, the bit off the inner sea.

Edit:

I was vaguely thinking of fiddling the distances to make it a proper Mediterranean style area

This is kind of why I was hoping @EarthScorpion would take my prompt a couple weeks back. The idea kicking around in my head is that the geography is the result of a concerted effort by a contingent of the Balorian Crusade's raksha trying to shatter the continent in that area to connect the Dreaming Sea, but were partially foiled by the stabilizing factor of the godstone manses. By the time the Empress disappears, you have all these greek-ish city states living all around the mountainous terrain of the region and the wilderness between the cities being riddled with strong wyld zones (at least, strong for how close to the center of creation this region is) that can give you your cyclopses and harpies and what have you. The city states in the region would have a dying tradition of pilgrimage between the various manses that ties into their stabilizing effects, and who knows what would happen if the custom died out altogether...
 
For whatever it's worth, Eric Minton has suggested that the heartland of the Prasadi Empire is the jungle and the southernmost parts of those lakes/seas north of Kamthahar.
 
Farasi, Divine Padishahbanu of Taira
More things for Taira.

Farasi, Divine Padishahbanu of Taira
Deity of the Third Rank
Bureau of Humanity


The fortunes of Farasi were born with the Tairan empire. The goddess of a clan of northern horse-lords expelled from Makuran lands has seen her people become mighty cataphracts and conquer an empire for themselves. Her people promoted her from a young god born after the Balorian crusade who dwelt in the wagon-shrine of her moving village to a Celestial deity who dwelt in the hallowed halls of Heaven. Now, though, the Tairan empire sickens and tears itself apart, and Farasi is afraid. Her plans to achieve promotion to the Fourth Rank are in ruins. Her fortunes are intimately tied to her people and the vultures of Yu Shan know that. Her department in the Bureau of Humanity is no less fractured than the mortal nature, as lesser gods bicker and politick over who will gain status from the fall of Taira.

The goddess displays the tattered nature of her state in her garb. Her fine silks are rent asunder and tied to her lance as a banner, and she now dresses once more like a cataphract in layers of rusty chain, bearing well-worn weapons and a dented shield. Some of Farasi's origins as the clan goddess of horse-lords still showed even in times of peace. Her fine silk veils and henna tattoos could never cover the scars on her cheeks and no amount of braiding would conceal the windblown nature of her hair. In this time of civil war she has discarded such pleasantries, and abandoned her halls in Heaven. This leaves her vulnerable to political actions against her, but she considers herself to have no choice.

Instead, Farasi has descended to Creation with those gods in her service who remain loyal - who are too few in number - and she fights with all the viciousness of a goddess who knows how far she has to fall. She pushes the very limits of what a deity of her station is permitted with the barest deniability as she targets her supposed subordinates with directed violence. Those gods who think to take her position from her and back their own favourites in the civil war are finding that a furious celestial deity is 'enforcing heavenly law' on non-interference - and that she isn't resorting to the law courts of heaven with her extrajudicial punishments. Strangely enough, those gods who support her cause are exempted from her vigilante judgement. Just like the mortal shahbanu, Farasi is spending favours like water as she hires elemental mercenaries to do things that gods are not willing to do. She desperately hopes that the civil war can be brought to a close before she has to pay them off.

Farasi is the goddess of an imperial nation with great wealth from trade - even if it is now lessened - and the authority of her office allows her to compel obedience from those she defeats, force service or payment from one who travels along her roads or the Grey River, and aid forces on and off the battlefield. The civil war has crippled her capacity to enforce peace, though, and her divine horn that calls Tairans to battle is shattered. She still fights more like the tribal goddess she once was and on her wind-fast divine steed she harries her foes until they are bled dry and she can force their service.
 
Xochi, High Shogun of Heavenly Franchises
Xochi, High Shogun of Heavenly Franchises
Deity of the Fifth Rank
Bureau of Heaven


Xochi is a god of nothing within Creation. That is just how he likes it. One could annihilate Creation and his portfolio would continue to exist. Indeed, he was the one who invented his domain almost scratch within Heaven; he was certainly the first to formalise it. His greed and cunning ambition was what led him to turn a simple job into his current position as one of Ryzala's most loyal cronies, producing fortunes from the poor of Yu Shan. Xochi is a gloriously fat eagle-headed man, with feathers the rich brown of chocolate and six hundred hands which fan out behind him, welling with quinessence and ambrosia. His robes are lavish silk woven by spider-gods, and he clatters as he walks from the golden bracelets which ring every arm. His department spreads over all of Heaven, and by some reckonings he is the third largest employer within Yu Shan, with more gods reporting to him than the Bureau of Seasons.

The combined impact of the Great Contagion and the Balorian Crusade devastated the economy of Heaven. The fall in prayers led to a decline that the gods have still not recovered from. While once Yu Shan was a metropolis where a single house could cost more than entire mortal nations, now vast swathes lie abandoned and cut off from the city's utilities. Unemployment and underemployment is rife, and mad gods gone too long without a role roam burned out slums, living off a scraping of the dole and what they can manage to pick up with ad-hoc work. Gods are not like men; a man can survive without a job and as long as he has food and water and housing he may even find the experience to be liberating. Gods lose their minds if they have no position, for they were made by the titans to watch over Creation and a god without a purpose is useless.

In the early years of the Realm, Xochi, God of the Aotal Breed of Cocoa Beans in the Bureau of Nature, found that his beans had been wiped out in their entirety by the fae. Through some creative accountancy he managed to hold onto his job for a decade, but as the austere cuts of the auditors of Heaven winnowed through the Bureaus firing everyone that they felt they could downsize, the chopping axe got ever closer.

And then he had an idea. It took all the favours he had ever earned and no small amount of grovelling, but he managed to secure a transfer to the Bureau of Heaven and - through more grovelling and the attentions of a auditor-general with a thing for South Easterners - he managed to arrange to be on a travelling boat with Ryzala. Risking life and limb, he approached the Shogun of Paperwork and managed over the course of the boat trip to persuade her that a God of Cocoa Drinks Served In Heaven would be a good way for the Bureau of Heaven to take influence away from the Bureaus of Humanity and Nature by cutting away at their power bases.

The position came with no pay and a desk in a shared office, but Xochi didn't care. He didn't spend any time at his desk, because every day he was out in the city selling drinks from his cart. He didn't need pay from Heaven - not when gods would pay him to avoid the inconvenience of having to walk too far. This was far from unheard of, of course, because many gods had taken up careers like that trying to make ends meet. But it was different for Xochi - the more of a market he built up, the more powerful his position became. And that's when the next radical step happened; he hired unemployed gods as unpaid deputies and made them Gods of Selling Cocoa Drinks in specific plazas, or on certain streets. Every one he hired not only meant they were paying him a share of their wages, but they were making his office more important. And unemployed gods were so desperate! They'd work for almost nothing and he could fire any who became a threat.

Within fifty years, this practice of franchising had caught in within Heaven. Other gods started getting in on the action, but Xochi had tied himself to Ryzala and the Bureau of Heaven's coattails and she appreciated his loyalty. The new God of Heavenly Franchising had jurisdiction over everyone else trying to do the same thing, and he kept on doing what he had done; franchising off the rights to fields of Heaven's service economy to other gods, who got the right to make further franchises within their field. Yu Shan's service sector is a great pyramid, and the wealth flows uphill to Xochi - with generous payments to Ryzala, of course. Her patronage is key to his success, and he knows which side his bread is buttered.

Xochi has no interest in power in Creation - nor in running Yu Shan. He makes his prodigious fortune from the poor and lower-middle class of gods. The upper classes have their own servants and chefs and seldom need his services. His lesser director-generals are also wealthy in their own right - though nowhere as wealthy as him - but as one heads down the pyramid incomes drop precipitously. The Department of Heavenly Franchising is kept under Xochi's iron thumb and director-generals who fail to meet the expected income for each season find that their positions are at risk. He is hated by many of the poor gods, but even more want to work for him all in the hope that they'll achieve what he has. Fools, he would tell them if he spoke the truth. He found a gap in Heaven, and he filled it. There's no room at the top.
 
My big problem with the House of Succulent Tears is that it's mired in the idea of rape as a male on female act.
It may seem like an odd objection when we're talking about people being raped for all eternity but leaving assumptions unchallenged helps an environment of casual misogyny that troubles me more than pretend people.
 
My big problem with the House of Succulent Tears is that it's mired in the idea of rape as a male on female act.
It may seem like an odd objection when we're talking about people being raped for all eternity but leaving assumptions unchallenged helps an environment of casual misogyny that troubles me more than pretend people.
In a similar vein, there's also how the Lover apparently sends male ghosts who piss her off to the House, so rather than being rapists, there's also guys who irritated the wrong person, which strangles any attempt at making it seem karmic or some kind of warped justice in the cradle.
 
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My big problem with the House of Succulent Tears is that it's mired in the idea of rape as a male on female act.
This is in fact every single use of sexual assault across the entire Exalted line, without exception. Which is why a lot of people tend to view this one instance as particularly egregious for its absolute laser-like focus on the subject that causes even people who would otherwise argue that the inclusion of such material is a totally acceptable thing to have in an RPG book (it isn't) to kinda step back and say, "yeah this reads like one very strange man's fucked-up internet fetish."

The factor of "here White Wolf goes again, using rape as a cheap-heat shock tactic to imply maturity and storytelling depth to cartoonishly exaggerated renditions of evil by allegedly inhuman forces" somehow manages to come in at a mere second place.
 
Dragon-Blooded Charms preview! [Exalted]

Hey guys, we got our selves some Dragonblooded 3e previews!

Seed and Salt Warding

Cost: 1m, 1wp; Mins: Occult 4, Essence 1; Type: Simple
Keywords: Earth/Wood, Stackable
Duration: One day
Prerequisite Charms: Whispered Secrets Insight
The Dragon-Blooded lays down a line of salt or germinated grain to keep ghosts at bay (Exalted, p. 506). The aspect of this Charm depends on which she uses—salt is Earth, while grain is Wood. She rolls Intelligence + Occult to determine the power of the warding. Powerful ghosts who could normally cross through the line by spending Willpower can only do so if their Resolve exceeds the Dragon-Blooded's successes on her Occult roll. Otherwise, they cannot cross over the line. In addition, the line repels other forms of the undead, such as zombies or hungry ghosts, who can also only spend Willpower to cross through it if their Resolve beats the Exalt's roll.
Each use of this Charm strengthens a salt or grain line that extends up to a single range band. The Exalt may stack up to (Essence) invocations to create an extended warding line. The Willpower cost of subsequent activations to extend a line is waived.

So glad we got rid of Thaumaturgy right? Now we have more potential dragon-blooded charms!
 
So he's a colossal piece of shit. Which makes him about par for the course when it comes to Heaven's inhabitants.

Is he?

Because he's making jobs. That's unquestionably true. Low-ranking service-sector jobs, yes, but unemployment for a god means you literally lose your mind if it goes on too long. And there are too many gods for the number of actually-needed-for-Creation's-functioning jobs out there, because of the crash caused by the Twin Catastrophes. One of the big functions of the Bureau of Heaven these days - and why Ryzala is so powerful - is that its makework is baaaaaasically a hidden social support network for Heaven.

Yes, he's got ludicrously rich from it, but he's manufactured jobs for vast numbers of gods - and these jobs aren't just makework, either. It's not like they're sitting in offices filing paperwork that no one will actually read. At least the Goddess Of The Loomyen Just Outside The Bureau of Destiny is providing moderately priced coffee for other gods, and being paid for it. And by certain measures, he's got one of the least corrupt parts of the Bureau of Heaven, because people who don't do their job get fired.

(Plus, he does vital services for providing Sidereals places to have secret meetings in anonymous fast food restaurants in Heaven.)

I could totally see an Infernal whose Urge involved making examples of such deities, for (further) befouling the City of the Primordials.

Metagaos: "I like the cut of this guy's jib. He's a straight shooter who knows how things work. Hire him."

Infernal: "... sir? You normally tell me to eat people."

Metagaos: "He understands greed is good. He's already got me in him. Now, put him in charge of Heaven while extending feeder tendrils to him. That's a god I can do business with."
 
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So he's a colossal piece of shit. Which makes him about par for the course when it comes to Heaven's inhabitants.

I could totally see an Infernal whose Urge involved making examples of such deities, for (further) befouling the City of the Primordials.
Eh, he's providing a useful service and is responsible for a huge boom in the job market that has resulted in the creation of thousands of new jobs in a culture where not having a job directly leads to being crippled and insane. Huge numbers of people will hate him, or be be envious of his position, but for the gods who otherwise would be sitting broken in a filthy slum, begging for scraps from gods only barely better off then themselves? He wouldn't be a hero, but there'd still be more than a few grateful for what he did.


As to an Infernal with an Urge related to him? Sure, if we're talking about a Malfean urge, that might work, especially if you're going for a more canon urge assignment system, but if you're going for something more like Kerisgame, I'd find it far more likely that someone would be sent to subvert him.

After all, what's more useful to the reclamation, messily killing one god who has actually cleaned up heaven as a side effect of being a greedy shit, or getting control of his purview so that you now have informants on every street and in every plaza in heaven?
 
Dragon-Blooded Charms preview! [Exalted]

Hey guys, we got our selves some Dragonblooded 3e previews!



So glad we got rid of Thaumaturgy right? Now we have more potential dragon-blooded charms!

In fairness, unless I'm reading that charm wrong it doesn't seem to be replacing thaumaturgy so much as augmenting it. Any mortal can lay down a line of salt or grain to stop ghosts, but the Dragon-Blooded can empower them to also repel the more powerful kinds of spirit and even halt physical undead. That's not a bad design space, all in all.
 
In fairness, unless I'm reading that charm wrong it doesn't seem to be replacing thaumaturgy so much as augmenting it. Any mortal can lay down a line of salt or grain to stop ghosts, but the Dragon-Blooded can empower them to also repel the more powerful kinds of spirit and even halt physical undead. That's not a bad design space, all in all.

Go Re-read the 3e thaumaturgy section.

Placing a line of salt would practically be be a 3 dot merit under it... its something that might actually be useful in game.
 
This is in fact every single use of sexual assault across the entire Exalted line, without exception.
It's the default but there's some notable exceptions.
Also the other instances aren't necessarily indicative of any greater pattern within the setting in the same way that a place that's supposed to be the hell for rapists is.
 
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