Well, it is a bit more potent at some things - in the same way that the Malfean Sorcerous Initiation gives you a 50% buff to damage inflicted through it. But that's the ballpark, yes - the Black Art means that you are saying that you are the kind of sorcerer who calls upon ancient forbidden murdered death-titans and embraces spiritual foulment, just like an elementalist is someone who keeps plenty of elemental familiars around to fuel spells, and a sorcerer-king draws on the power of the land, their people and the manses in their territory.

And, indeed, if you use @Aaron Peori's "martial arts as artefact-like things" idea, then you can have kung-fu-wizard sorcerers who throw massive ki blasts like Naruto characters by calling on their years of training and how they turned their body into a weapon.

The idea is that the backgrounds you draw on do indeed define your style - and the Black Art is a style for people who are dark grey at best.
Gotcha. ...And now that comparison to the Sorcerous Enlightenment of Malfeas brings up another question for all this: How much does this resemble the Infernal Sorcerous Enlightenment of (Yozi)? It seems similar but what I'm reading earlier in the thread of Authorities doesn't fit totally.

Not just in the Black Art, either. Is the for needed to being a Sorcerer-King, an Elementalist, or a miracle working messianic figure (Cult being a very obvious power source... and very Cecelyne,) something that is learned and expressed as a charm? Or would it be expressed differently, and more flexibly?


Eg: Would an artificer, spending Resources and Wealth to make Cherub Shrines and similar artifacts that hold spells within them who gains hold of Manses, demenses, and a Cult be able to easily switch to use those as a source of power for his spells, or would he have to train and specialize in that as well?


Or for that matter, would a special Sorcerous Initiation be a middle ground, granting a character more power and flexibility with some backgrounds but less with others, meaning that the artificer could do things with Artifacts and other devices that normally required, say, Familiars.
 
The catch is that White Rukh is the natural form of the Rukh, and Black Rukh is born from hatred, despair, suffering, pain, chaos and death. It also drives those who use it crazy. Thus a Black Rukh user is someone who is quite bonkers, and perfectly willing to inflict death and suffering on others for the sake of power. Something that Black Art Sorcerers are liable to do.

Oh, and to further the comparison, the only way to draw upon Black Rukh is to willingly fall and accept it into yourself.
Actually, there was a neat conjunction between Rukh and Fate: essentially, White Rukh are meant to act like a more biased form of the Loom of Fate, pushing the world gently toward a better and more enlightened state. Black Rukh are a deranged, nihilistic perversion of that process - so obsessed with tearing down the perceived tyranny of Fate that they actively work to drag the world down into barbarism and misery.

While the ringleaders of the antagonist faction are basically canon 2e deathlords (that is to say, unrelenting balls of smug and bastardry), their pawns are often more driven by a sense of alienation and a legitimate belief that the world is fundamentally evil and that Fate is the cause - each of them reached a point in their lives where they felt as if the world was against them, and the bad-guy-faction-whose-name-I-don't-remember would swoop in to capitalize on that, guiding them into madness in the guise of helping them fight back against Fate.

Better still, the Rukh is supposed to be Magi's afterlife as well, and the Black Rukh may be the accreted suffering of all the people who slipped through the skeins of Fate and couldn't be saved.
 
There's an error in the social section writeup....enter a decision point to reject successful inspire actions, ... it's only persuade and bargain that need to go to Decisions.

That section is actually a bit more jacked up then it appears at first glance. It's actually for any social action, regardless of type, that is intended to get a character to do something. I think the original author merged two thoughts into one on that line.

Also, the section on aiming says you get '+3 dice at close range' ...

Fixed that.

I'd personally think it'd be pretty useful to have some notes about Sorcery in here, too (shaping actions can't be flurried, motes in excess of the spell's cost don't get 'saved' for the next spell, yadda yadda).

There is a thin line between providing a resource and violating copyright law. I'm trying my best to remain on the correct side.

I know you didn't write this, but if it's gonna get passed around we might as well make it the best it can be. :V

Issues aside, this is a very readable and convenient PDF, thanks!

Hey I hope it's useful for you. It will be published the next time I see my host. Probably tomorrow.
 
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Gotcha. ...And now that comparison to the Sorcerous Enlightenment of Malfeas brings up another question for all this: How much does this resemble the Infernal Sorcerous Enlightenment of (Yozi)? It seems similar but what I'm reading earlier in the thread of Authorities doesn't fit totally.

Not just in the Black Art, either. Is the for needed to being a Sorcerer-King, an Elementalist, or a miracle working messianic figure (Cult being a very obvious power source... and very Cecelyne,) something that is learned and expressed as a charm? Or would it be expressed differently, and more flexibly?

Eg: Would an artificer, spending Resources and Wealth to make Cherub Shrines and similar artifacts that hold spells within them who gains hold of Manses, demenses, and a Cult be able to easily switch to use those as a source of power for his spells, or would he have to train and specialize in that as well?

Or for that matter, would a special Sorcerous Initiation be a middle ground, granting a character more power and flexibility with some backgrounds but less with others, meaning that the artificer could do things with Artifacts and other devices that normally required, say, Familiars.

Ideally, I want those classifications to be mostly an in-setting thing. That is to say, you're not called a sorcerer-king because you bought a charm to that effect that makes you more effective when using sorcery; you're called a sorcerer-king because you're a sorcerer who roots most of their spells and their workings in their land, because you're a king and "owning a lot of lands with demesnes and people who owe you loyalty and a cult that praises you" are all power that a sorcerer can use.

Or, to put it another way, these limitations are chains you put on yourself.

Basically, my current idea is that you learn the spell with a given Anchor, and so a sorcerer will try to hunt down spells that have Anchors that are optimal for the assets they actually have. You can learn new anchors for them later, but as a sorcerer you are anchoring your power in material stuff. Dragonblooded learn sorceries that are optimal for Princes of the Earth with elemental ties and lots of manses and blinging artefacts. Lunars learn ones which aren't reliant on fixed infrastructure. Hell will give you ones which require you to have the Backing of a demon prince - if you lose Ligier's favour, he can withdraw the right to call upon his power. And there are things from the High First Age that are useless to modern Solars because they assume that you're the god-king of a nation with Cult 5 and that sort of shit is hard to get around these days, so you need to devote seasons to studying the spell and using it to design a variant with another Anchor.

Hence, an artificer-sorcerer will go "Okay, I will always make sure I have artefacts on my person, therefore I will build cunning gadgets that are made to be used with a spell". And so as a sorcerer they look like a wealthy gadgeteer since they carry an obsidian dagger for casting Death of Obsidian Butterflies and spells that require them to shed their own blood, and they have a staff with one of Venus' hairs in the core and that's for manipulating the Essence of the Maidens and so on. And that's a very different sorcerer from the ones who's always accompanied with their familiars, each one for their own purpose.

I want a sorcerer to be reliant on their infrastructure. It's a way to allow elders to be more powerful without removing their vulnerability to younger Exalts murdering them, because if the younger Exalts ruin their manses, kill their familiars and steal their treasures, the sorcerer has been deprived of their assets.

(And because of that added vulnerability and the associated cost of the Backgrounds linked to the sorcery, we can make sorcery cheaper. Although I have been thinking about the problem of demonology, and I'm starting to think that some kind of small charge might be needed per demon breed - but that's a question for another day.)
 
(And because of that added vulnerability and the associated cost of the Backgrounds linked to the sorcery, we can make sorcery cheaper. Although I have been thinking about the problem of demonology, and I'm starting to think that some kind of small charge might be needed per demon breed - but that's a question for another day.)
What, like how the Infernal Charms that let you make first circle demons need one xp per breed you learn to make?
 
Oh, yet another attempt to turn Exalted in The gamer. Yaawn.

Now, wouldn't it be nice to see Exalted fiction that centers in the setting, instead of the powers?
I'm working at it, damnit!
Correct. I want normal, moral players who aren't interesting playing characters who are far from morally white to shun it, and I want min-maxing optimisers to look at the incentives it provides and embrace them and turn into full on dark lords.

All the bits of the current Necromancy that are basically just sorcery wearing black eye shadow? They're sorcery fuelled by necrotic essence (or sometimes Saturnine essence). "Summon Ghost" is something any sorcerer can do if they know the formulae and cast the spell in a place where they can draw necrotic essence for the spell (if they don't naturally have necrotic essence). A lot of sorcerers go and learn Summon Ghost, just in case they ever need to investigate a murder and ask questions of the victim.

True Necromancy is something I want to be a very specific archetype. True Necromancy is there for characters who draw power from dark forbidden gods and ancient horrors. It's what characters use when they're evil sorcerers channelling death gods to poison a whole city. You're not going to be a hero using it - at best you'll be an antihero struggling against your own spiritual debasement. True Necromancy is mainlining the corruption and spiritual pollution of the Neverborn for raw power. True Necromancy is more powerful than equivalent sorcery, and doesn't need to be balanced as a peer to sorcery - which it was meant to be when it was a whole separate Initiation, and never managed [1]. Because it's a subset of Sorcery - specifically, the bit where you cast auguries of the future using the guts of murdered titans and open black hole rifts to Oblivion.

If you're familiar with Warhammer magic, it's basically like dhar.

Essentially, Whispers is a lure for a sorcerer, because it lets them access the power of Necromancy. If you're not willing to sully yourself with the spiritual corruption of the Neverborn and channel the weeping hole in the world just for raw power that bypasses the whole "I need to have lots of assets" that sorcery asks of you? Then you don't go looking for Whispers. You can just be a normal crazy demon-summoning sorcerer.

[1] Because, essentially, sorcery's shtick is that it's very thematically broad and has lots of useful effects in it. Necromancy has the root problem when trying to be a peer to sorcery that it's thematically narrower and therefore has fewer useful effects in it - and many of these effects are hard to justify as not being sorcery-OK too. Hence why necromancy has wound up as Ghosts, Ghosts, Ghosts, the Underworld, and Sorcery-wearing-black-eye-shadow.
I know you've got a bunch of homebrew bits scattered around, would it be possible for you to combine them into a Sorcery/Necromancy/Occult/etc thing lke you did for the homebrew demons/ghosts?
 
What, like how the Infernal Charms that let you make first circle demons need one xp per breed you learn to make?

Pretty much, yes. If demon summoning is a toolbox, it's probably a good idea to ensure (for the sake of the sanity of the ST, if nothing else) that the number of tools in the box is finite. And to avert that bit that I certainly know I've been responsible for, where when the DB party encountered a problem I immediately started flicking through my pdf of GoD to see if there was a demon that could help resolve it and then started trying to finagle homebrew demons on the spot.

I suspect that if a player actually has to buy the range of demon species they can get so they have pre-defined capacities, it might stop that sort of thing - and encourage a degree more specialisation from demonologists, if you have to pay 1XP per unique summoning ritual that you need to study in depth and memorise to be able to summon and bind a demon.

(Also, it'll make an interesting contrast to ghost summoning. Ghost summoning, you don't need to buy species, but you do need to find out about the ghost in question and ghost summoners are therefore encouraged to contact the Dead and make deals with them or even send their own ghost servants to spy on the lands of the Dead and find out things about ghosts they want to summon. Demon summoning means you have to buy species, but then you get something that reliably dispenses that breed on cue. It helps reinforce the desired feel that the Underworld is much closer to Creation than Hell, and interactions with it are more normal.)
 
EarthScorpion Setting Homebrew: Eshtock
Eshtock

In the mountains of the eastern Scavenger Lands, just north of the Hundred Kingdoms, lies long-lost Eshtock. The ruins of this Shogunate city have not seen the sun in seven hundred years. Endless fogs veil the mouldering rubble and fungus-covered skeletons. Nothing green grows there. The once-white stone of the Shogunate structures is pitted and cracked and rotted. Many-coloured mushrooms glow in green and blue, which breaks the darkness with a faint gloom.

In the absence of the sun, the city has become a place where wicked things gather. Lifeless creatures stumble through the ruins, their minds corroded by age and the narcotic spores that fill the air. They go through the mockeries of life, barely maintaining the crumbling ruins. Rivers run down the streets and pool in the plazas, and so the Dead are trapped on island-towers for most of the year, only able to roam freely during the dry months. The ruins are pockmarked with deep wells and crevasses that lead into the Underworld, filled with dark stagnant water.

Within the centre of the city, within the grand spire of the central tower the ancient ghosts of Dragonblooded sorcerers still maintain the cursed ritual that they called to guard the regional capital against the oncoming hordes of the Balorian Crusade. Their minds are so far gone that they do not perceive the passage of time, and so cannot know that hundreds of years have passed by. Below them, their sworn guardians hold to an eternal vigil without relief. Many of them have passed on entirely and so the ghost-sorcerers animate their clean bones with fell rituals.

Over the years, rumours of a fog-choked city have spread around the area and every so often a scavenger lord plunges into the misty paths of the mountains looking for lost Eshtock. Their bones lie at the bottom of the perilous slippery cliffs that are the only way through the passes, or else they have been gnawed by the twisted fae monsters who have been lost in the fog for hundreds of years. The magics called upon by the sorcerers still keep the city safe from the princes of chaos, but they cannot flee the fog. Even if they could escape the veiling mists, the hated sun would burn them - so they stay, jailed in the mountains.

The Wealth of Eshtock

A would be plunderer faces many threats when coming here. The misty approaches lead through snow-choked narrow mountain passes and are infested with virtue-starved fae - both savage fiends and tricksters alike. The spore-filled air is bad for the health of men, and intoxicating with extended exposure. There are sorcerous traps and Dead monstrosities roaming wild - and more than that, the central tower where Dead adepts carry out rote rituals is guarded by keen fighters who recall their art with the blade even if their minds are as hollow gourds.

Alas, the treasures of Eshtock are not as sizable as some might like. Its last lord evacuated to the Blessed Isle as the fae invasion approached, his flying craft laden down with bright jade and priceless heirlooms. It was lost en route, and the only records of its route might be found in the ruined aerodome of the city. There are no intact fliers there because all the working craft evacuated, although there are plenty of parts and several damaged fliers that would be priceless in the right hands. The mists and the fungi have destroyed much that was fine and beautiful about the city, and the grand library of the sorcerous academy flooded centuries ago, so the only texts that might have survived may be in the offices of the sorcerer-lords - or the rotted minds of their ghosts.

Still the trash of the Shogunate is still treasure to the Second Age. The straps may have rotted from the breastplates worn by the constables who once patrolled Eshtock's streets, but the ceramic is still lighter and stronger than steel. Most of the lore is lost from its grand libraries, but scraps are still a feast to the lesser scholars of this day. And there is a wealth of tools and day to day commodities of forgotten times to be found here, though they would need much restoration and cleaning to undo time's ravages.
 
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I was wondering if there was a way for 3rd circles to survive there oversouls going neverborn

And them essentially getting whispers N/A because of it.

Their existence causing dead neurons to fire in a similar way that electrifying a corpse can cause it to stand, trying to pump necrotic essence into a being never meant to handle it, making them shun the underworld even more than the other residents of Malfeas. Desperately avoiding anything to do with it to avoid aggravating the issue. Risking everything to destroy all records on how to summon them from a prison where they are safe, unable to be bound as there patrons never signed onto the surrender oaths, these devas being the only willing residents of hell.

But because of there connection, they contain some of the greatest secrets of void circle necromancy aligned to their dead patron, but the process of accessing that knowledge killing then slowly driving then to become more like their murdered siblings.

An aspiring and powerful necromancer need only capture a prince of hell and coerce there secrets to attain true power. Somehow forcing this powerful entity to sacrifice there lives, to an existence of unending pain, to learn what none before them has, or could be learnt by other methods.
 
I'd got the impression you need to hardkill literally all of a Primordial's souls to do that anyway?
 
I was wondering if there was a way for 3rd circles to survive there oversouls going neverborn

Well. In principle, you need to kill all the souls of a primordial to kill him, so no.

I can see a couple of exceptions:

1: Kill the primordial by destroying it's Jouten instead. Obviously, this is much harder, but it's technically possible, i guess.

2: Sever the third circle from the Primordial before killing him. We know it's possible for demons to defect, from that one who was seduced.
 
I'd got the impression you need to hardkill literally all of a Primordial's souls to do that anyway?

I think i remember 3 methods

Wipe the entire pantheon in 25 hours otherwise the Primordial will just spawn new souls else where

slag the main jouten e.g. destroy the demon city

and a third which escapes me, none seemed survivable for a 3rd circle though
 
Well, it is a bit more potent at some things - in the same way that the Malfean Sorcerous Initiation gives you a 50% buff to damage inflicted through it. But that's the ballpark, yes - the Black Art means that you are saying that you are the kind of sorcerer who calls upon ancient forbidden murdered death-titans and embraces spiritual foulment, just like an elementalist is someone who keeps plenty of elemental familiars around to fuel spells, and a sorcerer-king draws on the power of the land, their people and the manses in their territory.

And, indeed, if you use @Aaron Peori's "martial arts as artefact-like things" idea, then you can have kung-fu-wizard sorcerers who throw massive ki blasts like Naruto characters by calling on their years of training and how they turned their body into a weapon.

The idea is that the backgrounds you draw on do indeed define your style - and the Black Art is a style for people who are dark grey at best.

Blatantly incorrect. You see, you've reinvented Qlipphotic Magic in the oMage sense, magic drawing on impossibilities, on destruction, on mad cosmic horrors and the universe's own existential self-loathing.

And as we know, the Nephandi, who use Qlipphotic Magic, are the true heroes of oWoD since they just want it to end. Therefore, Necromancy is the most moral and heroic form of magic QED.
 
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