Y'all have some sharply limited ideas of what actually makes a desert.

(Hint, it's a lack of moisture and humidity. Something that the far frozen north has absolutely no fucking problem with)
That is one of the methods of defining a "desert", yeah. Not the only one, but a dominant one. This is why Antarctica is a desert - and yes, I mean pretty much the whole continent; deserts are places where more water evaporates than is provided by precipitation, typically meaning less than 10 inches (~250 mm) per year.
The Antarctic coast gets about 8 inches (~200 mm) of precipitation per year. There are other examples of cold deserts in the Arctic.

Okay but... exactly how much does surviving in a tundra or arctic desert have in common with surviving in a sandy desert? Because while precipitation may be what defines it scientifically, one imagines that the work of actually dealing with the problems posed by the environment differs greatly.
Yeah, but "survive in a hot place" is different from "survive in a dry place with no vegetation".
Also, the presence or lack of sand is unrelated to temperature.
 
Yeah, but "survive in a hot place" is different from "survive in a dry place with no vegetation".
Also, the presence or lack of sand is unrelated to temperature.
:/ ... it's a shorthand to evoke the difference between the deserts of the South from those of the North. And it's pretty clear it worked to do that.

My point is that it's pretty obvious that in the context of this conversation that we're contrasting the South of Creation to the North. (Maaaaaybe Cecelyne, but GeneralChaos's post really does not read that way, in light of it being a post about learning an inapplicable skill.) My point in light of that is that skills for the deserts of the North will not necessarily be the same as skills for surviving the deserts of the South.

I will grant you that water conservation is just as important in the cold North as the hot South. Normally I'd also include cold nights in the desert but I'm not sure just how much the deserts of southern Creation match the rules for deserts on Earth. (The south is the element of fire on the one hand, but how exactly that plays out could be argued in a number of directions. Passionate Fire creating extremes of temperature without the balance of Earth or Water, for instance. Alternatively, Fire is just plain hot.) It's just a question in my eyes whether that's enough to qualify. There are after all, issues of temperature management that will be different (heatstroke vs cold induced lethargy for instance) and acquiring food may be a different prospect as well.

Basically, yes, we're talking about dry places. But I suspect we're also talking about dry & hot places.

I'd go delve deeper on this and do more research but it's late. My apologies if this comes off as annoyed or short tempered; it's harder to give the proper respect & consideration I'd like to when I'm tired.
 
Ok, does anyone have that comic where there was a contact between autochonia and Creation?

There was a link on rpg.net, but the wiki's down.
 
:/ ... it's a shorthand to evoke the difference between the deserts of the South from those of the North. And it's pretty clear it worked to do that.
But you could have done it better.

My point is that it's pretty obvious that in the context of this conversation that we're contrasting the South of Creation to the North. (Maaaaaybe Cecelyne, but GeneralChaos's post really does not read that way, in light of it being a post about learning an inapplicable skill.) My point in light of that is that skills for the deserts of the North will not necessarily be the same as skills for surviving the deserts of the South.
Nobody is really disagreeing that the skills for surviving in a cold desert are, to some degree, different from those for surviving in a hot desert, just pointing out that "desert" includes both of those.
I will point out that the system isn't granular enough for the difference to matter outside of specialties, though. It would only exist as - potentially - a penalty on the Survival roll for unfamiliar territory.
 
I'm half tempted to run a Lunar game.

To be more specific: A 2e, TAW, Kerisgame... Er... Game, I guess. Be prepared for homebrewing TAW charms into Kerisgame, although I'll also be assisting with that task.

Me and @horngeek are doing a Kerisgame-style TAW game. It's fairly easy to convert TAW Charms to Kerisgame, speaking from my little experience with it, you shouldn't need to change much about most of the Charms.
 
Me and @horngeek are doing a Kerisgame-style TAW game. It's fairly easy to convert TAW Charms to Kerisgame, speaking from my little experience with it, you shouldn't need to change much about most of the Charms.
Good to know. The main thing is probably incorporating Principles, no?

That only leaves skills and attributes.

Five attributes. Three castes. (Starts swearing)
 
Good to know. The main thing is probably incorporating Principles, no?

That only leaves skills and attributes.

Five attributes. Three castes. (Starts swearing)

The solution we've been vaguely considering for that - but haven't tested or implemented yet because Kerisgame is an Infernals game and so such things are somewhat less important - is to drop Willpower and replace it with Resolve as an Attribute, as the "defensive/reactive" social Attribute. As legacy, each dot of Resolve would give you two points of Willpower. That also allows you to standardise the weird pools that treat Willpower as an Attribute/Ability without breaking the 5-cap.

However, this would be easier to implement in a non-Attribute-Exalt game, because a new Attribute requires a whole new set of Charms which is effort.png
 
The solution we've been vaguely considering for that - but haven't tested or implemented yet because Kerisgame is an Infernals game and so such things are somewhat less important - is to drop Willpower and replace it with Resolve as an Attribute, as the "defensive/reactive" social Attribute. As legacy, each dot of Resolve would give you two points of Willpower. That also allows you to standardise the weird pools that treat Willpower as an Attribute/Ability without breaking the 5-cap.

However, this would be easier to implement in a non-Attribute-Exalt game, because a new Attribute requires a whole new set of Charms which is effort.png
I used Resolve in my game in replacement of Charisma (folding it and Manipulation into Persuasion), and I took all the Canon Lunar Mental Resitance and Territory Charms and shoved those into Resolve. Though that was a stopgap at best, in the end Resolve had about the same amount of charms as Lunar Appearance.
 
Disconnect Charms from being Attribute trees, make them caste-based, done.
The problem was with favoured attributes. Which caste is going to be the one with only one?
The solution we've been vaguely considering for that - but haven't tested or implemented yet because Kerisgame is an Infernals game and so such things are somewhat less important - is to drop Willpower and replace it with Resolve as an Attribute, as the "defensive/reactive" social Attribute. As legacy, each dot of Resolve would give you two points of Willpower. That also allows you to standardise the weird pools that treat Willpower as an Attribute/Ability without breaking the 5-cap.

However, this would be easier to implement in a non-Attribute-Exalt game, because a new Attribute requires a whole new set of Charms which is effort.png
Hmm. If I disconnect the trees to caste only, I could add resolve. Would be an odd skew, as the no of skills wouldn't be a multiple of the number of attributes, but that's a possibility.
 
The Raraan Ge

In the South West, the line between aristocrat and pirate have always been thin. Power lies in naval dominance and control of trade routes, and in such dangerous waters the ships of rich men travel armed. The Raraan Ge are a shining example of this, blending post-Shogunate hints of honour codes with the fashion sense of a bird of paradise and a kleptocratic approach to the possessions of anyone who cannot defend themselves against their sharp-bowed cutters and junks.

Rather than one unified group, the Raraan Ge are instead a culture who can trace their roots back one of the lesser Dragonblooded empires who were destroyed by the Blue Monkey Shogunate. When their masters fell, the lesser lords and sworn warriors kept to their own lands and paid dues to the Blue Monkey Shogunate. As the Realm encircled that rival, the Raraan Ge drifted away from their control, never formally declaring independence but no longer paying their taxes or providing men to the bloody wars against the Third Scarlet.

Though the families are fierce rivals, they recognise their shared kinship and venerate the honour codes that set them apart from other men. Raraan Ge in itself is a bastardised version of 'Children of the Dragon' in a far Southwestern Firetongue dialect, and Terrestrial blood runs in many of the lesser lords of the South West. No small number of pirate-lord families will have a Terrestrial child every few generations, though with the degradation of the breeding lines and the hemorrhage of the young to the Realm this rate has fallen over the past few centuries.

Before House Sinasana seized Saata, the Raraan Ge ruled the crime-ridden island - and many of the surrounding coastlines, too. The last Despot of Saata was one of these extravagant pirate-lords. It was his ill-advised raids that drew the attention of the Imperial Navy and led the Fourth Scarlet to offer a band of disparate outcastes Cadet House status and permission to conquer the island in the name of the Throne.

If the pirate-lords had been unified, they could have defeated the newly formed House Sinasana, but it is the eternal curse of Raraan Ge that they are always at each other's throats. Instead, the other lords were glad to see the death of the despot. Like gulls they picked over the Despot's holdings and flocked around the new regime, seeking to ingratiate themselves to the upstarts.

Culture

In appearance, the families wear their Southwestern blood proudly. They commonly are flat-faced, with dark skin and tightly coiled curly hair. Their Terrestrial heritage means that elementally-aligned hair and eye colours are not-uncommon, and gives them a certain angularity of their features. When a child is born with aspect markings, it is a great blessing and a lord will often throw grand parties for a week.

Each family has its own range of elaborate dragon tattoos, and the thaumaturges and wonder-makers of the pirate-lords will often invest these markers with a measure of power. The most powerful of these tattoos are made from powdered jade dust and the essence of captured elementals. These grant magical powers that the pirate-lords who wear them claim comes from their Terrestrial heritage - and perhaps there is some basis in these tales, for they will not work for men who do not have the blood of dragons in their veins.

Many of the Raraan Ge follow a bastardised version of the Immaculate Faith. They venerate the Immaculate Dragons as the first of the Dragonblooded, and the children of the Dragons themselves. The Immaculate Dragons are treated as intercessory ancestor-spirits, who can plead one's case with the greatest of the gods and through whose authority one may bargain with lesser spirits. In the eyes of visitors from the Realm, they are clearly lapsed and border on heresy for their tendency towards ancestor worship and willingness to barter with the Dead, but at the edge of the world the Order's reach exceeds its grasp and attempts to reform the locals have had little success.

Notable Families

Each lord of the Raraan Ge is nominally independent, though many are bound together by complex webs of alliances and marriages - and split apart by vendettas and old grudges.

Baltoo of Saata
A prosperous family based out of Saata, the Baltoo family are heavily invested in the opiate trade to the far South West, taking precious gemstones and feathers in exchange. They have two merchant fleets and have lost some respect among their fellows for their lack of martial prowess. However, the true shame of the family lies in the second daughter of the current family head. Ba-le was blessed by the Dragons and would have been the next head of the Baltoo, but she fell for Sinasana Colira, the third eldest grandson of the head of House Sinasana. The two of them eloped, and she has been adopted by the Sinasana. Her father and mother cannot forgive this insult or their daughter's treachery, and now secretly plot against the lords of Saata.

Hinya of Zenmetsu
Zenmetsu is a province on the northern edge of Shuu Mua, just east of the cursed Met Saana marshes, and a tributary of House Sinasana. As a result, most of the land is set aside to growing rice and samphire to feed Saata. The Hinya family dislike such activity as unworthy of them or their kin, and so the work is mostly done by slaves taken from dinosaur-hunting tribes from the Deep South. Perhaps unsurprisingly, this means that Zenmetsu has a chronic problem with slave revolts and sizable numbers have fled into the marshes or up into the highlands. This has made the Hinya very unpopular with their neighbours, and some of them are considering whether they could conquer them - and fund the rebels to make that more likely.

Masaati of Saata
The remnants of the kin of the last Despot of Saata, the Masaati have mostly gotten over any grudge they might have got. Unfortunately for their prosperous elders, the Lintha have gotten the ears of some of the young of the family and fill their minds with tales of the power that should be theirs. The Lintha family is only doing this so they have a backdoor to the prosperous markets of Saata, but the young Masaati are about to ruin everything. They're planning a bloody coup in their family - and this has no chance of success. When the Lintha discover this, they're liable to panic because the young hotheads are about to wreck years of effort.

Zamar of Zamar
Zamar is a tiny, sargasso-choked volcanic island around a hundred kilometres from Saata. Its mineral resources are negligible, the population is tiny, and its fleets are comprised of a grand total of two elderly cutters that are mostly used for fishing. The Zamar family have historically been a non-entity. That's about to change. At Calibration twelve years ago, there was an eruption of the volcano. Fifteen months later, the countess gave birth to triplets with bright orange eyes and embers in their hair. The first of the children has just exalted as a Fire Aspect. If there are really three young Fire Aspects in Zamar - with abnormally strong breeding to boot - then the island has just become a regional superpower.
 
Last edited:
The problem was with favoured attributes. Which caste is going to be the one with only one?

I think TAW favored attributes was caste 3 (physical, social or mental, depending on whether you're full, changing or no moon), plus pick any two.

So for Kerisgame TAW, give physique to full moons, persuasion to changing, cognition to no moons, and then let everyone pick one or two extra.
 
Last edited:
I think TAW favored attributes was caste 3 (physical, social or mental, depending on whether you're full, changing or no moon), plus pick any two.

So for Kerisgame TAW, give physique to full moons, persuasion to changing, cognition to no moons, and then let everyone pick one or two extra.
Hmm. Proportionally, two comes closer.. And it means less homebrew (and thus effort) for me.

Yes, I think I shall do that.
 
Hey Keris, looks like you just found your people.
Literally my exact thought upon seeing that line, almost word for word. :p Clearly, Keris was meant to be a pirate in this life, and was prevented from growing up as a cabin girl only by a minor Lethe error that led to her being born approximately two thousand miles away from the nearest ocean.

Bureaucracy. What can you do?
 
A dot rating is very broad, though acceptable. Personally though, It would be something to discuss with the player, unlikely it may be since most players are reasonable enough.
Unless the player is using it for a stunt or actually trying to teach the specialty, it's irrelevant what they're teaching because it's going to be broad enough to justify an increase of the full Ability.
 
I'm half tempted to run a Lunar game.

To be more specific: A 2e, TAW, Kerisgame... Er... Game, I guess. Be prepared for homebrewing TAW charms into Kerisgame, although I'll also be assisting with that task.

It'll probably end up set in the north shortly (5 years or so) before her Empressness vanishing.

Before I get too invested in the set up, I thought I'd check for interest. It'd be PbP and only 2 or 3 players because I am not comfortable with my skills.
*wants to be in so bad*
 
I'm half tempted to run a Lunar game.

To be more specific: A 2e, TAW, Kerisgame... Er... Game, I guess. Be prepared for homebrewing TAW charms into Kerisgame, although I'll also be assisting with that task.

It'll probably end up set in the north shortly (5 years or so) before her Empressness vanishing.

Before I get too invested in the set up, I thought I'd check for interest. It'd be PbP and only 2 or 3 players because I am not comfortable with my skills.
I'm pretty interested, but I notice I'm pretty late.XD
 
Hey Keris, looks like you just found your people.

It's quite interesting how the Saata stuff has evolved since the original concept, actually. See, my original concept for it was basically "Pirates of the Caribbean in the South China Sea and Saata is fantasy!Roanupur". So, as a consequence of that, of course, everyone had to be pirates.

But when everyone's a pirate, the pirates become the nobility and the entire thing basically turned into a balkanised setting with the pirate coves becoming major trade ports and the entire thing sort of becoming feudal. The pirates are the local powers, and indeed socially it resembles feudalism where the "knights" are people with fast ships, who maintain the power to engage in violence. So as a result, here pirates rule islands and build themselves castles and collect taxes from settlements they rule (and then dress up in incredibly lavish clothing paid for with their ill-gotten gains).

(Naturally this is a very PC-OK setting, because there are lots of small balkanised naval powers - aka pirate lords - who can be usurped, allied with, or taken over by players)

You know what else is an added advantage of doing things like this? The Lintha are more at home by being the far-extreme of the local pirates. They're the scary mofos who have weird demonic powers and utterly terrify people they come across, because most of the pirates in the area are more reasonable.
 
You know, it occurs to me that the sorcerer-spirit relationship in @EarthScorpion's take on elemental sorcery is very likely to resemble Summoned Beasts from Naruto.

You sign a contract – in Naruto's setting a literal one, essentially an artifact created by a sealing master (i.e. sorcerer) – and become part of that elemental's clan or family. It's clear that Naruto, Jiraiya, and Konohamaru, the resident toad summoners, aren't just calling up bound slaves or battle constructs – they're partners, who they have to respect and bond with, and who themselves age and grow over time. They also clearly exist outside of being summoned, and often become irritated if they're called up without notice. It's unclear what they actually get out of the contract (the toad village is not in or near Konoha, so it's not mutual protection), but Naruto's expected to drink with the Boss Toad (in the manner of a yakuza initiation ceremony), and is eventually trained in the secret toad arts at the sanctum of the Elder Toads.

Jiraiya, himself a seal master (sorcerer) has developed battle magic (Charms) specifically suited to his toad allies, such as igniting their natural oils, replacing a building with a giant toad's stomach to capture and digest enemies, or even bodily fusing with his summons.
 
You know, it occurs to me that the sorcerer-spirit relationship in @EarthScorpion's take on elemental sorcery is very likely to resemble Summoned Beasts from Naruto.

Pretty much. I can totally see the different Dragonblooded houses having their own long-running arrangements with certain elemental courts, which...

... huh. You know, the thought occurs to me that this brings a whole new meaning to the term to "elemental court". Maybe they're courts in the legal sense, which enforce and regulate the contracts and arrangements of their subordinates. Something akin to a guild - if a sorcerer wants to deal with the local elementals, they make their contract through the court and pay their fees, or suffer the consequences.
 
Back
Top