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General Exalted Thread

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Eos_Astraeus said:
I was wondering if there was a way for 3rd circles to survive there oversouls going neverborn

And them essentially getting whispers N/A because of it.

Their existence causing dead neurons to fire in a similar way that electrifying a corpse can cause it to stand, trying to pump necrotic essence into a being never meant to handle it, making them shun the underworld even more than the other residents of Malfeas. Desperately avoiding anything to do with it to avoid aggravating the issue. Risking everything to destroy all records on how to summon them from a prison where they are safe, unable to be bound as there patrons never signed onto the surrender oaths, these devas being the only willing residents of hell.

But because of there connection, they contain some of the greatest secrets of void circle necromancy aligned to their dead patron, but the process of accessing that knowledge killing then slowly driving then to become more like their murdered siblings.

An aspiring and powerful necromancer need only capture a prince of hell and coerce there secrets to attain true power. Somehow forcing this powerful entity to sacrifice there lives, to an existence of unending pain, to learn what none before them has, or could be learnt by other methods.
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Broken25 said:
Well. In principle, you need to kill all the souls of a primordial to kill him, so no.

I can see a couple of exceptions:

1: Kill the primordial by destroying it's Jouten instead. Obviously, this is much harder, but it's technically possible, i guess.

2: Sever the third circle from the Primordial before killing him. We know it's possible for demons to defect, from that one who was seduced.
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Alternatively, remember that killing a Primordial's fetich causes all of their other souls to be destroyed as well, at which point the Primordial reboots into a new one. A 3CD/pseudo-hekatonchire like you're describing could have resulted from a Primordial being fetich'd, one of its prior 3CDs surviving through dumb luck or a quirk of its nature, and then the "reborn" Primordial being killed for good and becoming one of the Neverborn.
 
I don't think there's a canon statement on the precise acts needed to kill a primordial, it's all left very vague for the ST to develop.

As for devas surviving their primordial, we know that Gramalkin (sp?) was separated from Mardukth during the Primordial war by the Sidereal charm "An End to Darkness." I wonder if he could be a conduit to learn Mardukth charms and/or revive the titan. Or maybe the link is severed totally.
 
I actually had an idea a while back for a 3rd Circle Demon who survived the Primordial War because she was so meek and supportive to the fetich soul that everyone thought she was a mere 2nd circle. The Primordial got Jouten-killed and all the other 3rd-circles were slain to prevent revival, but the newly-formed Yozi/Neverborn was unable to revive* because the remaining 3rd Circle's entire existence revolved around the deceased Fetich. The concept is probably best expressed as a 'Sword hilt without a blade'.
(The original primordial's concept was basically 'a blade that kills with a single blow/a predator that strikes when the time is right/a speaker who rarely opens their mouth, but sways an entire conversation with a single sentence'. You can kind of see why the loss of the fetich might cripple it into a comatose state).

It could have stood as either an Infernal or Abyssal quest, depending on whether you interpret the non-reforming Primordial in question as being dead-ish or just napping. The idea of wresting a (not actually completely dead) Neverborn back into life is fun, but honestly, I think it works much better as an Infernal quest. Especially since it carries with it the option of restoring the new Yozi to some semblance of life and thus unlocking a new and REALLY messed-up charm tree.

All of this is in addition to reforging a Primordial who did not agree to the surrender oaths. This carries a lot of implicit details that are worthy of entire arcs in themselves. Just to mention a few:
-Before the surrender oaths, the Gods and Incarnae were obliged to obey the Primordials. An unsurrendered Primordial might still have that authority.
-If a Neverborn was returned to proper existence, one of the anchors holding the underworld in place would be gone. Massive locational shifts downwards, nephwracks 'celebrating', ghosts expending all of their strength to flee the underworld and long-forgotten horrors waking and causing havoc would all become commonplace. Abyssals might find this opens an opportunity for them to commit theft.
-A revived and free Primordial might seek to help its' siblings...or it might not. This would be especially interesting in the case of a Yozi who thought itself Neverborn. Would it seek to destroy Creation so that it might bring forth Oblivion for the others? Locate and destroy literally everything that it ever had a hand in creating, so that if it dies it will pass straight into true death(and given its' nature, possibly then commit suicide so it can be reunited with the deceased Fetich it so loved)? Or somewhat more likely, do everything it can to make sure it never dies, even if that means betraying the Neverborn?
-A lot of stuff got destroyed since the Primordial fell, but most of the Primordial's belongings that remain would be in very interesting locations. This might include Yu-Shan, long-forgotten Shogunate tombs, sealed vaults from before the First Age that no human would ever want to see open, or even in Autocthonia. Which brings us to the next point.
-A primordial (particularly a sword-themed one) might have the power to breach the Seal of eight divinities. Nobody can argue that it wouldn't have the motivation.


*or if it did revive, the newly-formed jouten would literally be 'the corpse of the previous jouten'.
 
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Wasn't the God's Oath to never harm the Primordials, not never to disobey? Because otherwise they'd have probably gotten told 'oh, hey, tell us about all your secret plots' sometime in the setup and then the rebellion would have never happened.

Or one of the other thousand ways being bound to obey would make the whole backstory hilariously unworkable, including what was just suggested above.
 
There is some vagueness on the topic. Obviously the oath never to harm the Primordials was very concrete, unlike their loyalty, but considering just how restrictive that oath must be (given it would have to include some annoying little 2nd circle running up to you setting your desk on fire, etc), it would have needed Gods to respect their authority to get them to agree to that oath in the first place.

Even something comparatively minor like the example 'Kimbery was officially in charge of all Gods governing the oceans, and they swore a Cecelynian oath to obey her in such matters' makes for interesting plotlines. Obviously Kimberry's authority was cancelled during the surrender oaths, but this sword Primordial (...who really needs a name), might not have the same issue. Would need to have a think about what such a portfolio would entail, but ideally it would still be something big enough that the forces of Yu-Shan might feel obliged to not overtly interfere with the new primordial. Given the loose themes of this Primordial though 'officially in charge of all super-weapons' is a rather hilariously plausible option.
 
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Happerry said:
Wasn't the God's Oath to never harm the Primordials, not never to disobey? Because otherwise they'd have probably gotten told 'oh, hey, tell us about all your secret plots' sometime in the setup and then the rebellion would have never happened.

Or one of the other thousand ways being bound to obey would make the whole backstory hilariously unworkable, including what was just suggested above.
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You have to admit, though, one wonders why the Primordials never gave oaths of obedience. I mean, if you go all the way that they cannot harm you, then why not make them obey you?
 
Thematically, the Primordials are meant to be full of hubris- not perfectly rational actors with the ability to foresee every eventually. Remember- none of them were ever born. Secondly, Primordials existed outside Death itself- which as we know it from the mortal perspective is part of the reincarnation system or the broken post-war Creation.

Remember- they authored Death not as any great truth or meaningful statement for mortals to grapple with, but because they decided 'We should make things Not Live Forever to do things their short lives are best suited to.'

As for the Primordial Geas, it's generally accepted that a Primordial can A: order a subject of their Geas to do pretty much anything they want, and B: expect their subjects to not raise a hand against them. The major exception to this is if the Primordial attacks first. The Unconquered Sun is more than able to defend himself against say Isidoros actively trying to run him over.

This comes back to Humanity- being the deliberately weakest race, we weren't geased out of the believe that we would never be a threat.
 
I was under the impression it wasn't an oath, so much as something built into the gods at their inception. It's called the Great Geas, right? A geas is something that can be imposed on you. You don't have to agree to it.
 
I remember when they talked about the different yozi adopting the charms of each other to their themes one example they used was that for the Ebon Dragon attacks by the gods would just go straight through his shadowy body while for Malfeas it'd be a supernatural terror that would prevent them from attacking.
 
Shyft said:
This comes back to Humanity- being the deliberately weakest race, we weren't geased out of the believe that we would never be a threat.
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I like the multiple reasonings behind humans in exalted, they were created as prayer cattle and a living mockery of one of Autochthon's favourite creations, they were selected to be exalted because they weren't under a geas and because autochthon still liked the crippled mockery.
 
I'm half tempted to run a Lunar game.

To be more specific: A 2e, TAW, Kerisgame... Er... Game, I guess. Be prepared for homebrewing TAW charms into Kerisgame, although I'll also be assisting with that task.

It'll probably end up set in the north shortly (5 years or so) before her Empressness vanishing.

Before I get too invested in the set up, I thought I'd check for interest. It'd be PbP and only 2 or 3 players because I am not comfortable with my skills.
 
Estro said:
I'm half tempted to run a Lunar game.

To be more specific: A 2e, TAW, Kerisgame... Er... Game, I guess. Be prepared for homebrewing TAW charms into Kerisgame, although I'll also be assisting with that task.

It'll probably end up set in the north shortly (5 years or so) before her Empressness vanishing.

Before I get too invested in the set up, I thought I'd check for interest. It'd be PbP and only 2 or 3 players because I am not comfortable with my skills.
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I'd be really interested but I have no experience in play by post and very little in exalted. Will that be an issue?
 
Estro said:
I'm half tempted to run a Lunar game.

To be more specific: A 2e, TAW, Kerisgame... Er... Game, I guess. Be prepared for homebrewing TAW charms into Kerisgame, although I'll also be assisting with that task.

It'll probably end up set in the north shortly (5 years or so) before her Empressness vanishing.

Before I get too invested in the set up, I thought I'd check for interest. It'd be PbP and only 2 or 3 players because I am not comfortable with my skills.
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Sure, why not? I'm Forever DM, so the chance to be a player is is appealing.
 
I finally remember my question.

How do training charms look like?

Like, say, Tiger warrior training technique. What would it look like? Would the dude just do some drills, and then they suddenly know how to fight?

Or, say, Legendary scholar's Curriculum. Do the Scholar just send information straight to brain, or is does he just know the exact things so that what he teaches will stick. Is the charm changing the mind itself so it learns and retains information better.
 
Accelerator said:
How do training charms look like?
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Depends on the splat. Solar training is very different from Infernal training.

Accelerator said:
What would it look like? Would the dude just do some drills, and then they suddenly know how to fight?
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*insert whatever training montage with inspirational music*

*Be a Man from Mulan is totally Tiger Warrior Training*

Accelerator said:
Do the Scholar just send information straight to brain, or is does he just know the exact things so that what he teaches will stick. Is the charm changing the mind itself so it learns and retains information better.
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A Solar isn't a psychic. And he'd be a shitty teacher if he doesn't know the subject material. If I were the GM and the Solar wants to teach, I'd ensure the Solar knows his stuff in-character. E.g. A Solar from the Greywall is prohibited from teaching Desert Survival Techniques.

Then, check the damn charm if does Unnatural Mental Influence. Does it have it? Can students resist? No? Then it doesn't shove information into the student's brain.

Being a solar enhances being human. Thus, a Solar teacher is the best teacher who has the relevant materials prepared, who motivates student to learn, is very supportive, and is always available for questions and consultations. He'd be like John Keating, Eikichi Onizuka, Koro-Sensei, or Charles Xavier (minus telepathy).
 
Kiriel said:
A Solar isn't a psychic. And he'd be a shitty teacher if he doesn't know the subject material. If I were the GM and the Solar wants to teach, I'd ensure the Solar knows his stuff in-character. E.g. A Solar from the Greywall is prohibited from teaching Desert Survival Techniques.
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Look at the charm. It requires the Solar to have at least the dot rating before they can teach the thing.
 
Kiriel said:
A Solar isn't a psychic. And he'd be a shitty teacher if he doesn't know the subject material. If I were the GM and the Solar wants to teach, I'd ensure the Solar knows his stuff in-character. E.g. A Solar from the Greywall is prohibited from teaching Desert Survival Techniques.

Then, check the damn charm if does Unnatural Mental Influence. Does it have it? Can students resist? No? Then it doesn't shove information into the student's brain.

Being a solar enhances being human. Thus, a Solar teacher is the best teacher who has the relevant materials prepared, who motivates student to learn, is very supportive, and is always available for questions and consultations. He'd be like John Keating, Eikichi Onizuka, Koro-Sensei, or Charles Xavier (minus telepathy).
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I note that 2e Solar training charms at least allow you to train yourself. A Solar from the Greywall who wants to learn Survival can absolutely learn a Survival Specialty in Desert Environments, and then teach some large number of people how to do the same the next week.

Granted, it's a shitty investment of XP if she's not going to the desert anytime soon, so very few Solars do, but if a Solar wants to brainstorm how she'd survive in a desert from the safety of her freezing cold manse in the extreme North mountain ranges, she totally can. I have no idea why she'd want to, but she could, and it would make her more effective at surviving in the desert than most mortals from the desert.

If I was playing the Solar in question and had a reason to learn desert survival, I could stunt up something, be it a series of meditations on the dangers of not having enough water, raiding a rather diverse library, or chatting with a summoned demon or elemental to get a source of information and it would count towards those 5 hours required. The actual source of the information could be turned into a plot hook or just glossed over so we can get to the fun stuff (especially if we've been doing a lot of filler stuff and want to get to the actual plot already!).
 
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Y'all have some sharply limited ideas of what actually makes a desert.

(Hint, it's a lack of moisture and humidity. Something that the far frozen north has absolutely no fucking problem with)
 
Salty said:
Y'all have some sharply limited ideas of what actually makes a desert.

(Hint, it's a lack of moisture and humidity. Something that the far frozen north has absolutely no fucking problem with)
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Okay but... exactly how much does surviving in a tundra or arctic desert have in common with surviving in a sandy desert? Because while precipitation may be what defines it scientifically, one imagines that the work of actually dealing with the problems posed by the environment differs greatly.
 
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