Fate/Clusterfuck (Fate/Stay Night)

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Circe's a living being, and old enough that she was alive for the time of Arthuriana and Camelot and all that jazz. Not sure if she was in Britain for those events, but even if she stayed in Greece from the Trojan War until today, there's still a concievable way for her to have encountered Artoria, at least. Because, if I recall correctly, in the original Arthurian legends, Arthur went on a number of excursions down to the Roman Empire for... some reason. Of course, the time of Camelot takes place during the time of Sub-Roman Britain OTL, well after the Roman Empire's center of power had shifted from Italy to, you guessed it, Greece. (In fact, it was during one of those excursions that Morded did the whole Knight of Betrayal thing, and dear old dad returned to find that Camelot was currently in the process of falling.) So, on at least one occasion in the course of history, Artoria and Circe were in the same general area. And who knows? Maybe on an earlier expedition, before everything went to shit, Mordred was brought along on a knightly adventure to the land of gyros.

If not then, then we know Morgana wandered around the continent for a bit after Camelot fell. Yes, she eventually retreated back to the British Isles once fading Mystery meant she could no longer go gallivanting around, but Morgana was at least out and about for long enough to fuck with Charlemagne and pals. Entirely possible she encountered Circe during that time frame. Or that Circe encountered her.

Back to the present; yeah, poor Mo. That Circe's saying the madness is unbreakable does not fill me with hope for Berserker. The only idea I can think of is to capture another class container using either Sakura or Illya, preferably Illya, then shove Mo in there. Medea's been proven able to fuck with the Grail War system in canon, and hey, we do have a Lesser Grail or two on hand. Only problem is that the best container for Mordred, Saber, is kinda currently occupied, and more pertinently, doused in Grail Mud or however Artoria became Alter. I do not want to know what a Mordred Alter looks like, especially with the Angry Mango right under our noses with nobody aware.
 
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okay so I'll start with the conspiracy theorizing: I'm leaning towards Merlin as an explanation, specifically Erien pulling that thing the game did with Morgan and saying they're all the same person, and how fate/dnd/rpg games etc often have avatars/aspects of beings, something we see a lot of in fate; Servants in and of themselves are aspects of the original person. My thought is that Circe/merlin are aspects and through weird stuff, the same person. It makes partial sense, given that Merlin is canonically still alive iirc, and some of what Circe's been doing checks out with what you could do with Grand Caster candidate clairvoyance........

But, that's all kinda jumbled, and it feels like one of thsoe fate lore/logic dumps designed to give you a headache. Moving onto the more important part....

I wanted to say that I really liked the portrayal of Mordred's Mad Enhancement. The whys every which way really sold me on it; you could've gone for the basic "WHY WHY WHY", but in having them jumbled it gave the impression of a jumbled, insane mind. This and the ranting also contrasted incredibly with the Circe POV where she's just on the floor, drooling, bleeding, and mumbling a bit. Really well done, good stuff.
 
Shadowhisker said:
Only problem is that the best container for Mordred, Saber, is kinda currently occupied, and more pertinently, doused in Grail Mud or however Artoria became Alter. I do not want to know what a Mordred Alter looks like, especially with the Angry Mango right under our noses with nobody aware.
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If anyone can make a stable Mordred Alter it is the Grand Witch, her apprentice, and two potential Grails backing them up.

They'd need all that nonsense to actually give Mordred a happy ending.
 
Preventer Squall said:
If anyone can make a stable Mordred Alter it is the Grand Witch, her apprentice, and two potential Grails backing them up.

They'd need all that nonsense to actually give Mordred a happy ending.
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I'd be wary of trying to make a stable Alter, given the overall tone of this quest so far. It's a clusterfuck, but it's not crack. From what we've seen, for example, Salter aligns far more with her Heaven's Feel incarnation (an utterly heartless combat fiend) than her Hollow Atraxia or Grand Order incarnations (an utterly brainless junk food fiend). I expect other Alters would be similar. Sure, maybe we could try, but I wouldn't expect the process to improve Mordred's chances of getting a happy ending from this mess.
 
last admiral said:
I want to give BOTH Modred and Saber happy ending. They really need to sit down on Shirou's table and eat his food.
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Unfortunately the opportunity to get this particular happy ending probably went out the window around the point we deliberately refused to speak to Rin for the twelfth time and drove her so far into a corner she chose to team up with Kotomine Kirei. By far the most straightforward ending at this point is for Saber and Mordred to reenact the battle of Camlann and die at the same time once again. We'll be lucky if we get out of this without having to kill Rin, let alone her servant
 
DarkVeracity said:
Unfortunately the opportunity to get this particular happy ending probably went out the window around the point we deliberately refused to speak to Rin for the twelfth time and drove her so far into a corner she chose to team up with Kotomine Kirei. By far the most straightforward ending at this point is for Saber and Mordred to reenact the battle of Camlann and die at the same time once again. We'll be lucky if we get out of this without having to kill Rin, let alone her servant
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As the author I can say getting a happy ending for Rin is very very difficult. A happy ending for Saber is basically off the table. I had events planned for if Rin was working with you against what was coming, but didn't work out that way.
 
While Is a tragedy that neither Saber and Rin Will get a happy ending with Shirou, we need to think on all the other girls who are still with us: Sakura, Ayako, Taiga, Medea and Circe
 
All of which is to say that if we actually care about either Rin or Sakura (since killing her sister without ever letting them reconcile is just going to fuck her up even more) then we need to prioritize fixing this above everything else. Even after learning that Rin was this far gone we still chose to have that last side story be about Mordred instead of getting Rin's point of view and maybe getting some insight into how to help. We cannot keep doing that and expect Rin to live
 
Erien said:
As the author I can say getting a happy ending for Rin is very very difficult. A happy ending for Saber is basically off the table. I had events planned for if Rin was working with you against what was coming, but didn't work out that way.
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Ah yes, the everlasting curse of the DM whose plans get utterly thrown out the window by the players.
 
DarkVeracity said:
All of which is to say that if we actually care about either Rin or Sakura (since killing her sister without ever letting them reconcile is just going to fuck her up even more) then we need to prioritize fixing this above everything else. Even after learning that Rin was this far gone we still chose to have that last side story be about Mordred instead of getting Rin's point of view and maybe getting some insight into how to help. We cannot keep doing that and expect Rin to live
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Saving Rin this time just means kicking her out of the Holy Grail War by killing Saber and ending the whole thing right after so she doesn't pull a Shinji.

She may hate us for a time, but between eliminating her by the book, and taking care of Sakura and Ayako, she shouldn't retaliate against Shirou after losing. She would tell herself to carry her lose with Dignity
 
DarkVeracity said:
Unfortunately the opportunity to get this particular happy ending probably went out the window around the point we deliberately refused to speak to Rin for the twelfth time and drove her so far into a corner she chose to team up with Kotomine Kirei. By far the most straightforward ending at this point is for Saber and Mordred to reenact the battle of Camlann and die at the same time once again. We'll be lucky if we get out of this without having to kill Rin, let alone her servant
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That's certainly the most straight forward ending, but I wager we can get a better one for Mordred at least. One where she is victorious, and get's to try and pull a recreation of the sword of selection from the stone with the help of Archer and two witches.
 
DarkVeracity said:
Unfortunately the opportunity to get this particular happy ending probably went out the window around the point we deliberately refused to speak to Rin for the twelfth time and drove her so far into a corner she chose to team up with Kotomine Kirei. By far the most straightforward ending at this point is for Saber and Mordred to reenact the battle of Camlann and die at the same time once again. We'll be lucky if we get out of this without having to kill Rin, let alone her servant
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*grumbling how voters here is like far-off cousins of the residents in fiction.live in being pain in the ass and ruining the game*
God, i hate this, and i hate having to come up ways to salvage this shit.

Even if not necessarily had to give Saber "Happy ending", maybe we should instead work for atleast she can turn into human so she can had her wish of 'living a life where she dont pull the stupid sword' and then work out the whole trauma and issues from there. Turn Moedred into mortal as well, so atleast any fight or punch-out between them to release out repressed anger would be less "destroy entire neighbourhood" and more to "two girls have a catfight". Maybe put them in bounded field or geiss that will ensure no killing blows or anything. They can fight to their heart content, talk this out, and no one dead, we still have Mo-chan as waifu, and Saber atleast can live on and have her life even if not getting her somehow.

*deep sigh*
The point being, atleast visit Rin even if late as it may, and salvage thing up to atleast not having to kill both of them. Kick them out, but no killing. If can get them to fight on outside, neutralized them to be neither asset or liability. Yes this is Shirou-like picking the hard option, as in, the one with the low probility. Though then again thats what Ritsuka were doing, picking the right decision and stick to it despite the low possibility of success. Given the previous conga line of shooting oneself to the foot with Rin matter, this may as well a literal improvement. smh
 
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last admiral said:
*grumbling how voters here is like far-off cousins of the residents in fiction.live in being pain in the ass and ruining the game*
God, i hate this, and i hate having to come up ways to salvage this shit.

Even if not necessarily had to give Saber "Happy ending", maybe we should instead work for atleast she can turn into human so she can had her wish of 'living a life where she dont pull the stupid sword' and then work out the whole trauma and issues from there. Turn Moedred into mortal as well, so atleast any fight or punch-out between them to release out repressed anger would be less "destroy entire neighbourhood" and more to "two girls have a catfight". Maybe put them in bounded field or geiss that will ensure no killing blows or anything. They can fight to their heart content, talk this out, and no one dead, we still have Mo-chan as waifu, and Saber atleast can live on and have her life even if not getting her somehow.

*deep sigh*
The point being, atleast visit Rin even if late as it may, and salvage thing up to atleast not having to kill both of them. Kick them out, but no killing. If can get them to fight on outside, neutralized them to be neither asset or liability. Yes this is Shirou-like picking the hard option, as in, the one with the low probility. Though then again thats what Ritsuka were doing, picking the right decision and stick to it despite the low possibility of success. Given the previous conga line of shooting oneself to the foot with Rin matter, this may as well a literal improvement. smh
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This seems like an overly.....negative perspective on things. No one is guaranteed a happy/good ending, both in Fate and in forum quests, and especially in a Fate forum quest. Further, outside of Taiga dojos there's been no indication that the choices we've made are inherently wrong, so I really don't see how you think we've been shooting ourselves in the feet, ruining the game and are in need of "salvaging", just because we've been taking options other than "the Rin option".
 
LuxuryLore said:
This seems like an overly.....negative perspective on things. No one is guaranteed a happy/good ending, both in Fate and in forum quests, and especially in a Fate forum quest. Further, outside of Taiga dojos there's been no indication that the choices we've made are inherently wrong, so I really don't see how you think we've been shooting ourselves in the feet, ruining the game and are in need of "salvaging", just because we've been taking options other than "the Rin option".
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I mean, you don't think Rin going to work with Kotomine and Saber turned up Blackened are signs that maybe we shot ourselves in the foot with regards to them?
 
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