CedeTheBees
Probably high right now
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We should really try to scry for more info about the apocalypse so we can figure out where to focus our improvements
Distant Stars. (a WH40K/Xianxia civ Quest).
- Thread starter uri
- Start date
Roth963
If I become inactive with this massage, I died
I am advocating for delaying it a turn, rather than not doing it at all, our current focus would likely be withering away the tech jumps that come next turn anyway.
Do you want to die? Visiting the pyramid now is foolish when it was certain death as a peak third step, our strength increase isn't that big, at most it is nearly certain death now rather than certain death.
It is better to wait for the pyramid until we have core insights, if we go with my plan for insights, preferably the second insight, as that would be the most useful for combat.
And like I said before , don't feel pressure to blow all our money because we are rich now, spend it smart, power of intent is completely pointless for example, going for formations is a worthwhile expenditure and so on.
I agree healing faster is a worthwhile investment though, assuming we go with my temper harmony before tribulation plan.
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We gain enough QI per turn I'm not worried, and we don't really need reserves right now. The benefits from taking more actions now outweigh the benefits of keeping charges in reserve in my opinion
The more things we do (and the more time we have to do them in, which is why Date scrying is a priority!) the more we can build up on what we learn and discover.
I'd easily be willing to spend all 14 charges and a good 50 years of lifespans in actions, really.
We could do all the scrying now, and focus our military and general preparations that way.
We could do all pyramid preps, and I'm theory we'd be ready to challenge it next turn (if we also heal ourselves).
We could take surgery lessons and start working on methods to heal third steps and broken together (there's likely sinergy)
They're all things for which I don't see the point in delaying if we can afford to do it now.. and we CAN afford it.
To me date is more important, but they're all admittedly important
And I'm very much against it. I'd rather spend lifespan and do it all now.
We went from IV mid to low V. That's a big jump, don't you think?
Also I'm not saying to visit it this turn. I'm saying I'd like to scry now (and buy info), and based on that info possibly scary it next turn unless we're warned off.
It's actually not that bad considering you've got a resurrection insight and a lot more champions now.
Oh and I should probably mention that the lifespan to AP insight dos have a limit, it was never specified because I didn't see you doing it 5* times in a turn but now that you have a lot more divine Qi and lifespan I figured I should mention it.
*The limit is actually 4 because the AP you gain from going up a stage is eating into it.
CedeTheBees
Probably high right now
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We've already done the date one a couple times and got a range. We know nothing else.
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Oh, so we gained another AP from being step 4? NICE.
And in this case I'm all for using all 4 extra APs (or 40 lifespan). We can afford it, and we have valuable actions to spend it on.
Yes, but if we can further restrict the date and find out we have more/less time, that changes EVERYTHING.
That said, I mostly want to take all 3 (date, enemy units, enemy nature) together.
Roth963
If I become inactive with this massage, I died
I am not arguing against taking more actions, but against useless actions, I think we are fewer now, like for example, previously I saw the seeing the reason/a path for the apocalypse as too expensive, we can deal with the why after we beat after all, now we have enough that I think the information and the skill improvement for divination before date is in our budget, although I wouldn't really move stuff around to get it in.
Doing something like picking actions we don't want because we got leftovers is not wise, because we still spending limited resources, and while we are less limited now, we are still with a limit, and keeping divine qi in our pocket for emergency revival (like if we accidentally picked something we shouldn't and got another tribulation of retribution), healing or core insights is not something we should avoid.
Personal opinion is that apocalypse divination should be done before date, to both get the information and improve our skill.
You mean we can burn 40 lifespan a turn for 4 ap and get four additional personal ap actions instead of our former 3?
I don't see why to rush it, it take no ap, as long as we don't wait for the apocalypse, to the point where wounds can disable us at critical time, we are better off waiting, letting our champions gather pillars, insights, heal and for ourselves to get used to our new realm and gather actual core powers.
I don't think so, our people should know if they are dealing with biological warfare for example, our army should know if the enemy could fly or not, how advanced their weaponry is and so on.
We might even buy exotic advancement if the gap is too large, and than try to bury them after the apocalypse is over.
Going by our divine qi production, we get 28 a turn (assuming we take everything from champions), that 12 for tech jump, five for surgery, ten for divination, so 27, maybe we can shove it all in...
Doing action calculations, but can't know for sure until we see next turn actions, but I suspect it may be able to achieve both our plans, we are probably giving up on everything but healing and scrying though.
The differences between us and the other third steps is bigger when we were third steps, so I am still not confident, and even if I was, I don't see a reason to hurry up and risk wasting 4 divine qi.
Time benefit it, and impatience is the only reason we might want to hurry, what the expedition give us are necron weaponry and possibly a few useful artifacts we can't replicate, no something we need to do now when we have other stuff to do.
You have a limit for burning lifespan to AP which is 4, it was previously 5 but going up to core gives an additional base AP (from 3 to 4) which eats at the limit so it got reduced to 4, assuming you burn the max lifespan you'll have 8 AP.
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It's good that I at least want those actions then. I'm also thinking we should wait a turn to get the core insight (as we might manage to heal the pillar first... I hope...), and I'm not planning to do really risky stuff this turn so we can deal with not having the self-rez charges put in reserve this specific turn I think.
I think it's worth it.
We can also potentially get 2 or 3 more charges from wealth sacrifice if necessary, though probably not more.
Fair point on pyramid not being that urgent. Scrying still is in my opinion though.
Still, talking of happier and less conflicting things... We SHOULD be able to afford a tech rank up each turn now!
After this turn, next rank is 21 advancements.
Assuming we get 4 for free, we need 17 points... Or 34 charges.
Expensive, but doable. 28 Charges if we use everything from the empire (and we should get a few more from pop growth) and we can cover the difference with personal charges (6 at worst, possibly fewer.
Depending on how quickly charges grow we MIGHT be able to afford +1 tech rank per turn up to rank 10!
...though of course the question is if the apocalypse will wait that long.
Well, I think we want to take the max 8 actions for at least the next two turns.
After that, we'll see.
So, if it's 8 actions... I'm thinking
1) pillar healing
2-3-4) scrying (nature of the beast, tide, date)
5) nature of godhood
6) power of the few
7) half pillar healing
8) not sure. Broken maybe? Nobles if necessary.
... Was I the ONLY ONE to miss this from the list last turn? My whole argument for "to rule we'll" was to help the laws, I didn't notice there was an action for it!
Roth, did you see it?
CedeTheBees
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The action list is pretty huge tbf
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True, but I usually compare it to that of the previous turn.
I have no idea how I missed it.
It's not THAT big of a deal, I imagine we'll redo the laws in possibly even just 3 or 4 turns to deal with apocalypse and tech progress, but still...
I thought you included it in your variant?
I'm going to go over it this turn and update evrything, which will include doing away with some of the obsolete actions but overall, it will likely grow once more.
I don't think the turn list is that large compared to some of the quests around here (chakra cultivation has an action list that is 8k+ words, plan quests have action lists that breach 20k from time to time and most nation/ck2 quests swing around 4k-5k words in options) but if someone has an idea to improve readability, I'm more then okey trying it.
Roth963
If I become inactive with this massage, I died
Looking at divination there are five possible safe divination actions (four apocalypse ones, one necron tomb), of those, one can potentially be cut off as needed.
This leaves us 3 ap for figuring out healing, assuming we try to do both healing and divination this turn.
This does mean a few things though, we give up on formation action this turn and do it next turn instead, the same goes for contemplating godhood, being with our daughter or doing anything else.
This also doesn't really touch the divine qi, we can send one to finding life (getting a life fragment with divine qi to experiment), but it mostly goes to storage to be used later, which is fine use in my opinion.
I suspect we would keep most of the divine qi in our pocket, since the healing projects results may require it, and like I said, we shouldn't look for wasting our stuff.
This leaves us 3 ap for figuring out healing, assuming we try to do both healing and divination this turn.
This does mean a few things though, we give up on formation action this turn and do it next turn instead, the same goes for contemplating godhood, being with our daughter or doing anything else.
This also doesn't really touch the divine qi, we can send one to finding life (getting a life fragment with divine qi to experiment), but it mostly goes to storage to be used later, which is fine use in my opinion.
Won't work, most stuff we want doesn't really touch divine qi.
I suspect we would keep most of the divine qi in our pocket, since the healing projects results may require it, and like I said, we shouldn't look for wasting our stuff.
Yes, I was opposed to those type of actions anyway, especially with our max investment in law, so if your plan was picked, I would have rather ruling well, rather than even more focus on laws.
I personally like the list here.
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- Italy
I think i added the more generic "to rule well".
Maybe you could underline significantly different/new actions next time? I find it more noticeable than bolded.
Either that or maybe change their colour
Still, it might have been just me.
Eh, arguably both Necron and follow the path can be delayed.
Difference between excellent and good laws...
Mh... The numbers are significant, but not that big of a deal. I'm more interest in the "narrative" benefits though.
Roth963
If I become inactive with this massage, I died
I don't see a point in doing follow the path if not now, it's main use is giving us experience before we pin down the date, I will be honest, I don't want another pin down the date argument if Uri says that doing divination action will increase our skill and open it again, which I think is likely.
If we are doing necron anyway, it is best now, before pin down the date.
The actions are already bolded but showing some indicator to what actions are new or which were updated is a good idea.
Doing divination actions would increase your divination skill and that will help with pressing trough the interference but I make no guarantee that it will be enough to have the option remain for too long.
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To be clear, is the interference getting worse as we get closer to the apocalypse?
In any case I doubt an extra action of practice will make enough of a difference to make another pin the date action worth it later. Only thing that could would be a core insight that helps I suppose.
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Well, in this case I think we have the strongest incentive to take pin the date NOW.
I suppose... Roth, how would you feel about using our divine charges to get a core insight which might help?
Uri, do we need to invest APs for core insight, or can we go with only charges? 6 charges would be worth one core insight, if we took one that can help with scrying...
I suppose... Roth, how would you feel about using our divine charges to get a core insight which might help?
Uri, do we need to invest APs for core insight, or can we go with only charges? 6 charges would be worth one core insight, if we took one that can help with scrying...
you can use just divine Qi for it. altghou there are a few suporting actions that you woon tbe able to use it for.
Roth963
If I become inactive with this massage, I died
Personally really dislike it, both because it think the odds of getting such techniques are from from certain, and because I think we will benefit much more greatly from getting a core insight when we have a tempered core.
And it isn't like it is a major delay, next turn we can probably finish fixing our core and tempering, and get possibly two core insights, considering we probably don't use much of the divine qi this turn.
I suspect our insight would be greatly weaker if we did it now, which bother me more than the current cost, which is tiny.
If we invest all the future sight actions I mentioned, it should be more than enough.
We can reach the peak of heart formation with a tempered core before the apocalypse.
It might help, I wouldn't deny, but I don't think that rather small chance would be worth the weakening of our insight.
CedeTheBees
Probably high right now
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The interference means we should pin down literally anything else. We already know the earliest possible date, let's just treat every turn like the apocalypse is gonna happen in the next. We already have this information. We don't know anything else.
Roth963
If I become inactive with this massage, I died
We got enough actions to do them, don't worry about it, personally planning to use all the other divination actions to improve our skills (after getting the lessons) and finish with the date.
It should hopefully still leave us enough to at least start on our own healing, but possibly of our half steps too.