Remove ads

Changing Destiny (Kancolle)

Reader mode
Firefinder12-B said:
Honestly it likely it been worst if Hasley was there. Say Nagato getting a golden bb on, I don't know Jersey? Or one of the other ships...
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

So you never risk your forces, ever? A fleet is meant to fight the enemy's fleet. I can see not getting involved in a losing battle, but in this case the Americans had every advantage. They had a superior surface force that was supported by a fuckload of airpower that could easily maul Center Force in the form of all those fleet carriers.

By that logic, the Red Army shouldn't have fought Kursk because the Wehrmacht could've gotten lucky and won. In war, you risk assets. If Jersey took a magazine hit? Well, that's war, you need to put your forces in harms way to achieve the goal, and the goal in war is to destroy the enemy's ability to fight, something that is impossible without fighting. In this case, they had a golden opportunity to smash a whole bunch of the IJN's surface force that could have done a lot of damage, and to not take that chance because they could have taken casualties? The trade off would have been much better than A few heavy cruisers.

If Halsey hadn't been there and the Taffies had failed, then the way to the landing beaches, the undefended 7th Fleet, and a whole bunch of support ships would have been clear (although really there is a chance Rear Admiral Oldendorf's force from Surigao Strait could have stopped Center Force long enough).

Firefinder12-B said:
No it logical.

More ship there equals more people.

Which means more chance for something to go wrong.

And so on and so forth...

Would it have been a lost? No.

Would have been more bloody for us? Odds are YES.

What I'm trying to say Letye wasn't a massive failure.

A screw up? Yes.

But what everyone forgets is that those ships we last are consider EXPANDABLE.

Literally even those sailors know that. You know what my grandpa once told me?

DE= Destroyed Easily

CVE= Combustible, Vulnerable, Explosive/EXPANDABLE

DD=... I actually forgot this one but they were called tincans for a reason.

Now the IJN lost three heavy cruisers. That consider a fair trade off.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

You seem to be neglecting the big picture, in that what could have been lost is more than what was engaged at Samar. Behind the Taffies were several thousand US Army and Marines on transports and a whole bunch of supply ships. That was what could have been lost, not just those tin cans. When you have a force defending a city, for example, you don't just factor in the troops in losses, you also consider the cost of losing the city. And all that behind the Taffies was most certainly not expendable--why else do you think they made that last stand rather than bugging out?
 
Genolution said:
You seem to be neglecting the big picture, in that what could have been lost is more than what was engaged at Samar. Behind the Taffies were several thousand US Army and Marines on transports and a whole bunch of supply ships.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Which would have been ordered to disperse away from the approaching Japanese while the 7th fleet formed battleline again, and the Japanese would have gone after the warships first, by doctrine and by culture. In a short while the Center Force would have been deluged by existing (two more escort carrier groups and their escorts, transport fleet escorts, bombardment ships, and an approaching fast carrier task force) and arriving US forces and the transports would sail back.

Genolution said:
That was what could have been lost, not just those tin cans. When you have a force defending a city, for example, you don't just factor in the troops in losses, you also consider the cost of losing the city. And all that behind the Taffies was most certainly not expendable--why else do you think they made that last stand rather than bugging out?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Taffy-3 tried to bug out under cover of smoke. Of course their maximum speed was 20 knots or so and all Japanese ships save two could make 30+, so they couldn't run very far before being overtaken.

They also ran in the direction of the invasion forces, to meet any help that came for them from there and to slow down the Japanese. But they didn't make a 'last stand'. That's just in the name of one of the more famous books about it.
 
I stand corrected. I knew I got something wrong, and now I know my recall suffers in the absence of sleep.
 
So question, James knows how valuable the submarine fleet will be right? Why have we not seen him trying to do anything there?
 
Plus he must be waiting for the right commanders to take charge. Nimitz and King both had backgrounds as submarine officers so them plus the support of a few carrier specialists can get the Silent Service enough leverage to sow chaos and destruction earlier than the OTL. Plus while he cannot openly defy BuOrd he can get his engineers to pass out the many, many failures of the torpedoes and temporal solutions to the submariners before they are forced to learn them on their own.
 
BF110C4 said:
Plus he must be waiting for the right commanders to take charge. Nimitz and King both had backgrounds as submarine officers so them plus the support of a few carrier specialists can get the Silent Service enough leverage to sow chaos and destruction earlier than the OTL. Plus while he cannot openly defy BuOrd he can get his engineers to pass out the many, many failures of the torpedoes and temporal solutions to the submariners before they are forced to learn them on their own.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Thing is , BuORD did actually pressure a few Captains etc who took initiative when dealing with their weapons tho.
 
The big issue with working with the subs, as mentioned, is it would be overstepping his bounds. We've already seen him called out on that, to try again would be...less than wise. I mean, fixing those torps is a logical thing to do. Clearly, if there are problem with the Mk.13, there may be issues with the 14 and 15, since they are all part of the same family. And testing that is logical right?

But...bureaucracy.

And setting out to spread fixes hits the issue of going against orders, with all that implies.
 
Duzzit said:
Thing is , BuORD did actually pressure a few Captains etc who took initiative when dealing with their weapons tho.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Skywalker_T-65 said:
The big issue with working with the subs, as mentioned, is it would be overstepping his bounds. We've already seen him called out on that, to try again would be...less than wise. I mean, fixing those torps is a logical thing to do. Clearly, if there are problem with the Mk.13, there may be issues with the 14 and 15, since they are all part of the same family. And testing that is logical right?

But...bureaucracy.

And setting out to spread fixes hits the issue of going against orders, with all that implies.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Then do it coverly. What BuOrd don't know, BuOrd can't complain about.
 
Skywalker_T-65 said:
The big issue with working with the subs, as mentioned, is it would be overstepping his bounds. We've already seen him called out on that, to try again would be...less than wise. I mean, fixing those torps is a logical thing to do. Clearly, if there are problem with the Mk.13, there may be issues with the 14 and 15, since they are all part of the same family. And testing that is logical right?

But...bureaucracy.

And setting out to spread fixes hits the issue of going against orders, with all that implies.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Basically this. I mean, eventually BuOrd will be forced to go 'yeah ok, issues'. Proboably a lot earlier than OTL.

...Possibly a looooooot earlier if the Shipgirls like I suspect have actual control over their hulls/ordinance/objects onboard.
 
Firefinder12-B said:
There's an idea.

Have the Shipgirls do the fixing.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That depends on my theory which has no real basis other than 'it makes sense in my mind, but the sort of setting I usually write has Spaceships with AI controls' so...

I also meant more 'Fix my torpedoes, now', from an angry sub/dd/mumboat sitting outside BuORD facilities.

Edit: though yes, having them magic out the kinks in weapons/other equipment Thompson can tell them about...
 
Last edited:
Duzzit said:
That depends on my theory which has no real basis other than 'it makes sense in my mind, but the sort of setting I usually write has Spaceships with AI controls' so...

I also meant more 'Fix my torpedoes, now', from an angry sub/dd/mumboat sitting outside BuORD facilities.

Edit: though yes, having them magic out the kinks in weapons/other equipment Thompson can tell them about...
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I don't think is going to be as simple at that...

Maybe get them to have electrical failures that shoot 'not-so-live' torpedoes at the flagship of an admiral or important political person on tour so they can see that something is wrong with the damn torpedoes. There must be a point where the political pressure will affect BuOrd, even if it means shooting at Truman (who had an important Senatorial Commission which deal with just that kind of problems) to get his attention.

...But frankly the girls have serious trouble just talking between them so they probably can't do that even if they gathered the courage for such a desperate and dangerous move.
 
BF110C4 said:
I don't think is going to be as simple at that...

Maybe get them to have electrical failures that shoot 'not-so-live' torpedoes at the flagship of an admiral or important political person on tour so they can see that something is wrong with the damn torpedoes. There must be a point where the political pressure will affect BuOrd, even if it means shooting at Truman (who had an important Senatorial Commission which deal with just that kind of problems) to get his attention.

...But frankly the girls have serious trouble just talking between them so they probably can't do that even if they gathered the courage for such a desperate and dangerous move.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

So, you want the girls to all pull a Willie D Porter? o_O

I would love to hear Thompson's reaction to that idea.:confused::whistle:
 
Last edited:
BF110C4 said:
I don't think is going to be as simple at that...

Maybe get them to have electrical failures that shoot 'not-so-live' torpedoes at the flagship of an admiral or important political person on tour so they can see that something is wrong with the damn torpedoes. There must be a point where the political pressure will affect BuOrd, even if it means shooting at Truman (who had an important Senatorial Commission which deal with just that kind of problems) to get his attention.

...But frankly the girls have serious trouble just talking between them so they probably can't do that even if they gathered the courage for such a desperate and dangerous move.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I was largely joking on that front, y'know? :p
 
I'll point out that, as I said either here or SB...this isn't Arpeggio. The girls have some ability to influence their hull. Maybe they could fire pre-loaded weapons.

But they can't magically load their turrets or what have you.
 
Well if you want someone influential, there's also Admiral Thomas C. Hart to consider. He served aboard the pig boats back when the S-class were the new hot thing and also held a post on BuOrd and the Newport torpedo factory during WW1. Hart was also influential when it came to submarine design in the 20s and was made Director of Submarines in 1918. He would be very pissed to learn that his new command's (Asiatic Fleet) principal weapon, the new fleet submarines, would be unable to do anything because of their defective torpedoes. On the other hand, Hart had enemies in MacArthur and Roosevelt was also not fond of him. Plus he was also very old by the time of World War 2, Hart served the US Navy actively during the Spanish-American War after all.

Even with the political support through, the monetary support is what will make it hard to fix the torpedoes before the US enters WW2. The US still hasn't fully recovered from the Great Depression which is on everyone's minds, and even then what money that goes to the navy will be fought over by various interests within the navy.
 
Exterminatus said:
Well if you want someone influential, there's also Admiral Thomas C. Hart to consider. He served aboard the pig boats back when the S-class were the new hot thing and also held a post on BuOrd and the Newport torpedo factory during WW1. Hart was also influential when it came to submarine design in the 20s and was made Director of Submarines in 1918. He would be very pissed to learn that his new command's (Asiatic Fleet) principal weapon, the new fleet submarines, would be unable to do anything because of their defective torpedoes. On the other hand, Hart had enemies in MacArthur and Roosevelt was also not fond of him. Plus he was also very old by the time of World War 2, Hart served the US Navy actively during the Spanish-American War after all.

Even with the political support through, the monetary support is what will make it hard to fix the torpedoes before the US enters WW2. The US still hasn't fully recovered from the Great Depression which is on everyone's minds, and even then what money that goes to the navy will be fought over by various interests within the navy.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
To be fair many of those interest, surface fleet light units, carrier force, submarines and by 1942 even PT-Boats used it so it wouldn't be that impossible to reach something resembling a compromise to get them repaired. Hell, just throwing away the magnetic detonators would actually save money and would improve chances of it hitting its target.
 
You know, I'm curious. Is there anyone Thompson could potentially contact/get in touch with, for future diplo pull?

Or perhaps, send a few anonymous letters when he's stateside for a vacation or something, to certain people, about certain things. Regarding stuff like, soviet spies, etc?

Edit: NOt saying he should, its risky. Just, who would you think is a good idea for it, if done?
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top