Attempting to Subvert the Plan: Dominion Edition
- Thread starter Etranger
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
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- Tags
- starcraft plan quest
I'll be honest, I would have never thought to throw seven dice. However, looking at how much it helps us out this turn alone, *chef's kiss*. Of course, we have a lot to do in HI, so I went looking for ways to get some free dice loose.
What about doing trends instead of SALOME? Just knowing what metrics are getting better and which are getting worse is worth delaying Sally a turn imo. Then there's knowing just how much is left on our to-do list. Having a better idea of what to prioritize is extremely important, after all. I'd also suggest taking away the free die, odds of success on trends are 68.91% with four dice, but I understand why you want to have it stick around.
As for personal, it sounds like you're doing CAPP mostly to improve relations with the Union. May I suggest Legalizing instead, as it gives significantly more relations at a lower F price. It's extremely safe if we throw four dice on it, and would free up Paranoia so you can try to get an orbital military project of choice done this turn. It would mean we couldn't chat with Starke this turn, but a single turn's delay isn't horrible in the grand scheme of things. I suspect that Mengsk's sudden move likely caused him the same kind of problems we're having, so I doubt he would mind a minor delay. Plus, it frees up a free die.
That's potentially both free dice freed up. That has a good chance of setting T&D or the mines to autocomplete, once you factor in the SCV discount. Or just throw them on Dylarian, it needs all the help it can get.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
It literally lets us finish Brontes Orbital Reconstruction this turn and helps a ton of other things. Compared to a weird obsession with an entirely unnecessary Mining Action that will literally be reduced by 100 by pre-existing actions we can take in HI.
No, because we need and can benefit a hell of a lot from an extra dice in every category. As far as Personal goes, I'd rather strengthen the union overall BEFORE legalizing it. Just like that better narratively anyways.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
While I think people are underrating the value of the Keresh mines, I'm not going to lobby against an aggressive SCV rollout if the plan has a corresponding willingness to at least sort of damp down the corresponding Paranoia surge. Which I imagine Laurent's does, though I haven't exactly done an audit.
I can see reasons to support either "Keresh + ???" or "SCV full-bore," personally.
I can see reasons to support either "Keresh + ???" or "SCV full-bore," personally.
So I just thought of a good reason why narratively we might not finish the TRUST alpha site - it is due to all the 'confusion' during the big move to Korhol this season.
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Also I'm kind of glad we get approval votes because it really is down to one option (lack of Starke in Grimely's and lack of tools in Laurent's) that is causing me to go back and forth.
Oh, as an aside I like the idea of us cleaning the bioshphere of Mar Sara in grimley's plan. We were there. It was our world, even if we were only on their a short time. Us helping it makes total sense to me.
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Also I'm kind of glad we get approval votes because it really is down to one option (lack of Starke in Grimely's and lack of tools in Laurent's) that is causing me to go back and forth.
Oh, as an aside I like the idea of us cleaning the bioshphere of Mar Sara in grimley's plan. We were there. It was our world, even if we were only on their a short time. Us helping it makes total sense to me.
Enthusiast#117
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- Location
- United States
-[] Infrastructure (6/6 dice, 30R)
--[] Korhal: Capital City Augustgrad (Phase 2) [MANDATORY] 262/400 (3 dice, 15 R)
--[] Brontes: Orbital Cleanup (Phase 2) [Reconstruction] 106/300 (3 dice, 15 R)
Odds are good Augustgrad will finish even without anything else, but we like stacking the deck around here.
-[] Heavy Industry (5/5 dice + 4 Free Dice, 70 R)
--[] Korhal: Keresh Mining Complex (Phase 2) 14/200 (4 dice, 20 R) 88%
--[] Vardona: Ardonin Heavy Vehicle Factory (Phase 2) 33/300 (5 dice, 50 R) 36%
Putting enough dice in SCV's to guarantee it finishing would be expensive in terms of dice. Right now our net modifier is -2 per die. Additional dice only raise the chances to 63%/82%/93%/97.5%
Moving 1 die away from Keresh would lower it's chances to 53%, and the odds of at least one of the two finishing as things stand (0.88 and 0.36) is 92%, while moving a die to Ardonin lowers the odds of at least one finishing (0.53 and 0.63) to 82%.)
With this turn's +10 modifier, Keresh is the better bet.
Like this, odds are very good that the mining complex will finish, but the SCVs still finish around a third of the time and we only really need one to complete to make sure Augustgrad gets done this turn.
But really, both the mining complex and the SCV factory are good things to get done anyway.
-[] Light Industry (5/5 dice, 50 R)
--[] Korhal: Canis Chemical Refinery (Phase 1) 0/300 (5 dice, 50 R)
The +10 per die puts this within even odds of finishing this turn.
And having the refinery will make fuel more accessible, which is very nice.
-[] Environmental (5/5 dice, 25 R)
--[] Korhal: Regreening Effort (Phase 1) 48/100 (3 dice 15 R)
--[] Tyrador IX: Establish Farmsteads (Phase 2) [Reconstruction] 360/400 (2 dice, 10 R)
Finishing off farmsteads for this turn's continued refugee aid, and focusing efforts on regreening while the bonus lasts. Maybe we'll even blitz through two phases in one turn? Worth a shot.
-[] Services (5/5 dice, 50R)
--[] Korhal: Katherine Mengsk Memorial Veterans' Hospital [MANDATORY] [NEW] 0/300 (5 dice, 10 R)
With the +10 per die bonus, it's largely even odds we can get a mandatory task out of the way quickly.
-[] Military (6/6 dice, 45R)
--[] Brontes: Refloating the Fleet (Phase 2) 37/400 (3 dice, 30 R)
--[] Vardona: Treasury Reserve Site Alpha [TRUST] 141/300 (3 dice, 15)
Taking a swing at finishing the in-progress project, though there's no real reason to risk over-completing it either. Not much of a rush in this category this turn.
-[] Research (5/5 dice, 65R)
--[] New Model Weaponry (Phase 2) [Tech] 198/250 (2 dice, 20 R)
--[] High-Efficiency Conduits [Tech] 0/200 (3 dice, 45 R)
Finishing off the in-progress tech, and aiming for the lowest hanging fruit. I like it.
-[] Bureaucracy (5/5 dice, 55R)
--[] Services/Administration/Logistics/Operations Mechanization Endeavor 94/300 (4 dice, 40 R)
-- [] Veterans' Benefits Program [MANDATORY] [NEW] 0/400 (1 dice, 15 R)
Getting SALOME out sooner is the focus here. But the priority on free dice right now is in making sure we get Augustgrad done so our penalty is gone.
-[] Personal (4/4)
--[] Nephor II: Worker Aid Centers, DC 80 (4 dice, 20 F)
I'm not a fan of spending Free Dice in the Personal section.
We're going to need so many dice in Infrastructure to finish it all in time.
But we collectively really like the 2-dice/3-dice combo in Personal, so we need that 5th dice in it if we're going to be tackling stuff like DC 80.
This one only really needs 3 dice, but there isn't anything out there worth spending only 1 die, so might as well be absolutely certain with 4.
And it's not going to hurt anything to delay that meeting by one turn.
Total Cost: 390 R
We would actually save up some money this turn.
--[] Korhal: Capital City Augustgrad (Phase 2) [MANDATORY] 262/400 (3 dice, 15 R)
--[] Brontes: Orbital Cleanup (Phase 2) [Reconstruction] 106/300 (3 dice, 15 R)
Odds are good Augustgrad will finish even without anything else, but we like stacking the deck around here.
-[] Heavy Industry (5/5 dice + 4 Free Dice, 70 R)
--[] Korhal: Keresh Mining Complex (Phase 2) 14/200 (4 dice, 20 R) 88%
--[] Vardona: Ardonin Heavy Vehicle Factory (Phase 2) 33/300 (5 dice, 50 R) 36%
Putting enough dice in SCV's to guarantee it finishing would be expensive in terms of dice. Right now our net modifier is -2 per die. Additional dice only raise the chances to 63%/82%/93%/97.5%
Moving 1 die away from Keresh would lower it's chances to 53%, and the odds of at least one of the two finishing as things stand (0.88 and 0.36) is 92%, while moving a die to Ardonin lowers the odds of at least one finishing (0.53 and 0.63) to 82%.)
With this turn's +10 modifier, Keresh is the better bet.
Like this, odds are very good that the mining complex will finish, but the SCVs still finish around a third of the time and we only really need one to complete to make sure Augustgrad gets done this turn.
But really, both the mining complex and the SCV factory are good things to get done anyway.
-[] Light Industry (5/5 dice, 50 R)
--[] Korhal: Canis Chemical Refinery (Phase 1) 0/300 (5 dice, 50 R)
The +10 per die puts this within even odds of finishing this turn.
And having the refinery will make fuel more accessible, which is very nice.
-[] Environmental (5/5 dice, 25 R)
--[] Korhal: Regreening Effort (Phase 1) 48/100 (3 dice 15 R)
--[] Tyrador IX: Establish Farmsteads (Phase 2) [Reconstruction] 360/400 (2 dice, 10 R)
Finishing off farmsteads for this turn's continued refugee aid, and focusing efforts on regreening while the bonus lasts. Maybe we'll even blitz through two phases in one turn? Worth a shot.
-[] Services (5/5 dice, 50R)
--[] Korhal: Katherine Mengsk Memorial Veterans' Hospital [MANDATORY] [NEW] 0/300 (5 dice, 10 R)
With the +10 per die bonus, it's largely even odds we can get a mandatory task out of the way quickly.
-[] Military (6/6 dice, 45R)
--[] Brontes: Refloating the Fleet (Phase 2) 37/400 (3 dice, 30 R)
--[] Vardona: Treasury Reserve Site Alpha [TRUST] 141/300 (3 dice, 15)
Taking a swing at finishing the in-progress project, though there's no real reason to risk over-completing it either. Not much of a rush in this category this turn.
-[] Research (5/5 dice, 65R)
--[] New Model Weaponry (Phase 2) [Tech] 198/250 (2 dice, 20 R)
--[] High-Efficiency Conduits [Tech] 0/200 (3 dice, 45 R)
Finishing off the in-progress tech, and aiming for the lowest hanging fruit. I like it.
-[] Bureaucracy (5/5 dice, 55R)
--[] Services/Administration/Logistics/Operations Mechanization Endeavor 94/300 (4 dice, 40 R)
-- [] Veterans' Benefits Program [MANDATORY] [NEW] 0/400 (1 dice, 15 R)
Getting SALOME out sooner is the focus here. But the priority on free dice right now is in making sure we get Augustgrad done so our penalty is gone.
-[] Personal (4/4)
--[] Nephor II: Worker Aid Centers, DC 80 (4 dice, 20 F)
I'm not a fan of spending Free Dice in the Personal section.
We're going to need so many dice in Infrastructure to finish it all in time.
But we collectively really like the 2-dice/3-dice combo in Personal, so we need that 5th dice in it if we're going to be tackling stuff like DC 80.
This one only really needs 3 dice, but there isn't anything out there worth spending only 1 die, so might as well be absolutely certain with 4.
And it's not going to hurt anything to delay that meeting by one turn.
Total Cost: 390 R
We would actually save up some money this turn.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
My plan is carefully designed to gain exactly +5 Paranoia on average. Taking out the SCVs risks us doing something deeply unwise like losing Paranoia.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
In full fairness, the reason there's no Tool and Die in Laurent's plan seems to be that he's too busy doing full-bore SCV rollout. Since SCVs are likely to provide many of the benefits of the tool-and-die option in the first place, and then some, that's probably good enough.
Yeah, but we don't necessarily have to do it right now when we have some other pretty important projects underway.
My plan also finishes Brontes Orbital, what are you on about? Like, I'm down with doing SCVs but don't pretend that getting more income isn't important when you were banging the drum for 50% of the tax base not even a week ago. My problem isn't that you're doing SCVs but that you're always doing everything full tilt, maximum dice, 'less than 90% chance of success is for suckers' attitude. Calling it an obsession when I only have 4 dice on the project is also a bit odd.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
...my plan spends less R than our Q1 budget? Space Defenders has done pretty decently to reduce down R costs... we do need more of a budget of course, don't get me wrong, but it's not the highest priority by a mile at this stage. I still think 50% would have been safer and better... especially for Personal, tbh.
But I think we'll manage for now with 45%, even with SALOME.
E: As far as the Mines go, the smarter move would be to finish both SCV and Tool Die Phase 2 (reducing it down to /100), and then just toss two dice at it some turn this year to complete, saving two dice in a category where we'll need all the help we can get.
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grimely
Twink Death Sufferer
In... Environmental?
Laurent, we've brought our budget woes under control for the moment, but these phases have a way of creeping up in costs over time and we ought to secure more sources of income. Especially if we want to fund ever-more dice, that goes without saying. My plan is also under-income, but only just. I took a research project I was lukewarm on over one I was red-hot for because it came in lower on the budget scale.
The one item where we clearly *need* SCVs is the Dylarian Shipyards, with their 13 dice median right now, everything is doable by normal means.
The one item where we clearly *need* SCVs is the Dylarian Shipyards, with their 13 dice median right now, everything is doable by normal means.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
SCVs help literally everything, even land-based projects. It saves a very large number of dice across a very large number of categories... same with Tool and Die, which is why I think that T&D should be a Q2 project (combined with finally starting the Shipyards we need to do.)
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
@Etranger
What would we have to do to get numerical estimates on how much RpT increase we'll get from a new project such as a mine or workshop expansion? Maybe just a range of estimates, but a clue along the lines of "so, how much of the good stuff can we hope for from this here mine?"
There's a lot to be said for +Resource projects.
Nothing super-duper-ride-or-die critical, but stuff that means things to people in places we're already working hard on.
So Mar Sara can be back-burner for a turn or two, is what I'm saying. The place isn't going to get any more dead.
What would we have to do to get numerical estimates on how much RpT increase we'll get from a new project such as a mine or workshop expansion? Maybe just a range of estimates, but a clue along the lines of "so, how much of the good stuff can we hope for from this here mine?"
Building up increased income and surpluses is important, especially if we're planning to push to SALOME and want the slush fund to grow.
There's a lot to be said for +Resource projects.
I mean, pretty important. The farmsteads are pretty important; they're a reconstruction project and they affect quality of life for a lot of people. The shipyard amenities are pretty important given that we're serious about restarting the shipyards.
Nothing super-duper-ride-or-die critical, but stuff that means things to people in places we're already working hard on.
So Mar Sara can be back-burner for a turn or two, is what I'm saying. The place isn't going to get any more dead.
Sailor_Skarro
The Lurker
Yes, but we don't need the income this exact minute, and the SCVs help with 80% of our project list as opposed to the tiny benefits of Keresh. Several projects that SCVs help with that Keresh doesn't include:
- Literally all the space projects
- Brontes, a giant source of cash infusions
- Vespine Mines, a giant source of income
- Keresh
- Tyrador Workshops, a source of income
- NIM, a giant source of income
- Basically everything that isn't on Korhal
In addition, SCVs still help everything on Korhal, for the same or more benefits as Keresh would. There is literally zero reason to do Keresh Q1 at the cost of SCVs right now.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Trivia:
To me, the language of the blurb for Keresh suggests that we're about to start finding actual valuable minerals with uses off-planet, which suggest that the return on investment may be improving compared to the last phase. But I could be wrong.
Brontes Phase 1 was a giant source of cash infusions from the salvage value. I kinda worry that Phase 2 may have significantly less return on investment, because our crews already would have picked over the best stuff, and what's left is the stuff that's harder to recover or less rewarding to recover. No more giant ball-o-battlecruisers just waiting to be cut into pieces and hauled away, in other words. More "rivers of knives" where we have to either individually vaporize each chunk of debris (for no return on investment) or catch up with them and retrieve them individually (for not great return on investment).
- Location
- the Republic
- Pronouns
- He/They
I'll probably bundle that in with Forecasts and Trends.
Sailor_Skarro
The Lurker
Even if we ignore Brontes as an income source and say that Keresh is as good an income stream as Vespine Mines are, the progress discounts off of SCVs are far more valuable than 30 more RpT and a single planet's progress discounts combined. Especially in HI, our most heavily loaded category this year, and especially especially considering that they help with getting Keresh but Keresh does not help with getting SCVs.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I'm not going to tell you you're wrong under the circumstances. As I've said, I can get behind a full-bore SCV push.
It's just that I think Keresh is being treated as more of a poor relation than it deserves.
Sailor_Skarro
The Lurker
1. Last time SCVs reduced project length on the ground by -50 in addition to the -100 to space projecgts.
2. SCVs are literally mining equipment. They're also their own PPE, up to and including actively volcanic environments and space. Please reconsider if a dinky handheld cutter is more effective at mining than a mech with a built-in appropriately sized cutter. Hell, they're literally the exact same cutter, just that we scaled the handheld one DOWN from the SCV version.
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1. The suits project discount second phase didn't scale to all the projects effected by it's first phase. I have my doubts that every project needs more SCVs.
2. SCVs are big. That means digging bigger mines. Historically, mine engineers hate that. Why cut a mine shaft bigger than the seam you are following? Just use the dudes with hard hats, leave the SCVs to the projects that acutally need them and where they won't tripple the workload.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
SCVs are big, but they're not ridiculously big. Mineshafts are routinely built to accommodate heavy industrial equipment inside the mines. Because really high-yield mining doesn't just involve guys grunting and swinging pickaxes; it involves powered equipment and the miners serve or operate that equipment.
So if the Keresh mines are going to be really productive, they probably need to be built to a large enough scale that SCVs can operate inside the major mineshafts anyway, even if the SCVs couldn't necessarily make it all the way up to the face.
SCVs would also be useful in constructing the above-ground facilities associated with the mine (such as roads, storage facilities, and so on), and in bulk removal of material to get to the deposits (sinking large-diameter mineshafts, removing overburden).