Attempting to Subvert the Plan: Dominion Edition

Retcon: Should General Horner (the MC) have been The Magistrate (Starcraft 1 PC)?

  • Yes

    Votes: 35 43.8%
  • No

    Votes: 29 36.3%
  • This does not matter to me

    Votes: 16 20.0%

  • Total voters
    80
  • Poll closed .
How do people feel about swapping

[] Nephor II: TRUST Civil Auxiliary Pilot Program [TRUST] DC 60 (2 dice, 30 F) (92.97%)

for

[] Korhal: Have a Talk with Director Starke DC 80 (2 dice, 10 F) (83.47%)

Well I really like the TRUST program so I'm not sure about that for all that I really wanted it to be Starke before the general. That said I wonder if the risk here is low enough that we can take it, cause I definitely don't want us failing on these talk conversations. That said, as an amusing thing, if we gain Paranoia from the meeting we also gain the -5 because of our Starke deal, which is amusing.

--

Oh, as a note as a general thing, the fact that Starke also accepted the Emperor's 'request' to move to Korhol shows that we were right to do it. hehe
 
[] Plan Super Cool Vehicles, Robots, and Paranoia Balancing
-[] Infrastructure (6/6 dice, 30R)
--[] Korhal: Capital City Augustgrad (Phase 2) [MANDATORY] 262/400 (4 dice, 20 R)
--[] Brontes: Orbital Cleanup (Phase 2) [Reconstruction] 106/300 (2 dice, 10 R)
-[] Heavy Industry (5/5 dice+2 Free Dice, 70 R)
-- [] Vardona: Ardonin Heavy Vehicle Factory (Phase 2) 33/300 (7 dice, 70 R)
-[] Light Industry (5/5 dice, 25R)
--[] Mar Sara: Endureum Extraction Operations (Phase 1) 0/400 (5 dice, 25 R)
-[] Environmental (5/5 dice, 30R)
--[] Korhal: Regreening Effort (Phase 1) 48/100 (2 dice 10 R)
--[] Tyrador IX: Establish Farmsteads (Phase 2) [Reconstruction] 360/400 (2 dice, 10 R)
--[] Vardona: Supplemental Aquaculture Effort 0/250 (1 dice, 10 R)
-[] Services (5/5 dice, 50R)
--[] Korhal: Katherine Mengsk Memorial Veterans' Hospital [MANDATORY] [NEW] 0/300 (1 dice, 10 R)
--[] Mass Literacy Movement (Phase 2) 0/300 (4 dice, 40 R
-[] Military (6/6 dice, 50R)
--[] Brontes: Refloating the Fleet (Phase 2) 37/400 (4 dice, 40 R)
-- [] Brontes: Fort Riley Orbital Training Center 0/300 (2 dice, 10 R)
-[] Research (5/5 dice, 65R)
--[] New Model Weaponry (Phase 2) [Tech] 198/250 (2 dice, 20 R)
--[] High-Efficiency Conduits [Tech] 0/200 (3 dice, 45 R)
-[] Bureaucracy (5/5 dice + 1 Free dice, 65R)
--[] Services/Administration/Logistics/Operations Mechanization Endeavor 94/300 (5 dice, 50 R)
-- [] Veterans' Benefits Program [MANDATORY] [NEW] 0/400 (1 dice, 15 R)
-[] Personal (4/4+1 Free)
--[] Nephor II: TRUST Civil Auxiliary Pilot Program [TRUST] DC 60 (2 dice, 30 F)
--[] Korhal: Have a Talk with Director Starke, DC 80 (3 dice, 15 F)

Wondering whether to replace the Vardona Environmental with the Biosphere action. And any other (minor) changes to make.
 
Dominion Health Service now reduces Paranoia.

Calling it now: If we had finished it we wouldn't have gained Suspicion. It is now our fault that Mengsk forgot his promises.
 
Wondering whether to replace the Vardona Environmental with the Biosphere action. And any other (minor) changes to make.

So I can see the fun in us working on Mar Sara though I can also see the benefit in us aiding in food production.

As for other minor changes the only other category that had me going "oh" in was mass literacy. I mean in real life I love the idea of mass literacy but here I wonder about other options. And by other options I mean Vardona: Angustia Orbital Shipyard Complex.
 
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So I can see the fun in us working on Mar Sara though I can also see the benefit in us aiding in food production.

As for other minor changes the only other category that had me going "oh" in was mass literacy. I mean in real life I love the idea of mass literacy but here I wonder about other options. And by other options I mean Vardona: Angustia Orbital Shipyard Complex.

My reason for the Literacy progress was in one sense "simple." I want to have that sweet, sweet Paranoia increase set up if we need to trigger it.

Remember with Starke's blessing, losing Paranoia is actually a losing game, compared to just gaining 5 Paranoia that then becomes gaining no Paranoia. Disappearing Paranoia entirely.
 
Remember with Starke's blessing, losing Paranoia is actually a losing game, compared to just gaining 5 Paranoia that then becomes gaining no Paranoia. Disappearing Paranoia entirely.

I don't get what you mean by 'losing game'. We have many ways to loose Paranoia so how is that losing?

Are you saying "we will be doing an action that reduces Paranoia, might as well combine it with an action that gives us Paranoia so its a net sum" cause if so then yeah, I can see that.
 
I don't get what you mean by 'losing game'. We have many ways to loose Paranoia so how is that losing?

Are you saying "we will be doing an action that reduces Paranoia, might as well combine it with an action that gives us Paranoia so its a net sum" cause if so then yeah, I can see that.

Starke's boon is a way to reduce Paranoia gain that doesn't require us doing stuff that will empower Mengsk or neglect our other duties. So the best way to act in this coming year is to make it so that we gain, on average, +5 Paranoia every turn... at which point Starke's ability makes it a gain of zero.
 
So do we have dice to spend on Raynor? We should outfit him as much as we can given that he's our plan for overthrowing Mengsk. And sooner is better here.
 
Updated version of the plan which takes some dice off of the veterans hospital to put on literacy programs.

Or maybe increase Paranoia gain by shuffling the dice to favor SCVs over Fusion Cutters.
The reason why I'm favouring fusion cutters over SCVs is because 1. the cutters gain the benefit of the Nephor II bonus which cancels out the -5 from taking Mengsk's deal and 2. because the cutters require less progress then the hv factory so it will take less effort to set up and the hv factory will benefit from the progress reduction from the cutters.

[] Plan Something Something
-[] Infrastructure 6/6 30R (+8 modifier)
--[] Korhal: Capital City Augustgrad (Phase 2) 4 dice 20R 94%

(-10 Paranoia when complete)
(Progress 240/400, -5R per die)
--[] Brontes: Orbital Cleanup (Phase 2) 2 dice 10R 26%
(Provides one-time Resource gain upon completion)
(Progress 106/300, -5R per die)
-[] Heavy Industry 5/5 80R (+3 modifier)
--[] Vardona: Ardonin Heavy Vehicle Factory (Phase 2) 3 dice 30R 0%

(Reduces groundside and space-based construction project lengths upon completion) (+10 Paranoia)
(Progress 33/300, -10R per die)
--[] Nephor II: TerraUnion Tool and Die Works (Phase 2) 2 dice + 3 free die 50R 75%
(Reduces some project lengths upon completion)
(Progress 53/250, -10R per die)
-[] Light and Chemical Industry 5/5 50R (+3 modifier)
--[] Korhal: Canis Chemical Refinery (Phase 1) 5 dice 50R 45%

(Improved yields from all Vespene projects upon completion)
(Progress 0/300, -10R per die)
-[] Environmental 5/5 25R (-2 modifier)
--[] Korhal: Regreening Effort (Phase 1) 2 dice 10R 90%

(+5 Paranoia upon completion)
(Progress 48/100, -5R per die)
--[] Tyrador IX: Establish Farmsteads (Phase 2) 3 dice 15R 96%

(Progress 360/400, -5R per die)
-[] Services 5/5 50R (-2 modifier)
--[] Mass Literacy Movement (Phase 2) 3 dice 30R 0%

(+10 Paranoia)
(Progress 0/300, -10R per die)
--[] Korhal: Katherine Mengsk Memorial Veterans' Hospital 2 dice 20R 0%
(-5 Paranoia)
(Progress 0/300, -10R per die)
-[] Military 6/6 45R (+3 modifier)
--[] Brontes: Refloating the Fleet (Phase 2) 3 dice 30R 0%

(-10 Paranoia)
(Progress 37/400, -10R per die)
--[] Vardona: Treasury Reserve Site Alpha 3 dice 15R 40%
(Progress 141/300, -5R per die)
-[] Research 5/5 50R (-2 modifier)
--[] Improved Threat-Recognition Protocol [Tech] 3 dice 30R 0%

(Progress 0/250, -10R per die)
--[] New Model Weaponry (Phase 2) (Tech) 2 dice 20R 79%
(-10 Paranoia when complete)
(Progress 198/250, -10R per die)
-[] Bureaucracy 5/5 35R (+8 modifier)
--[] Establish the Office of Forecasts and Trends 4 dice 20R 59%

(Unlocks statistical trends) (Unlocks estimated number of phases for project completion) (+10 Paranoia)
(Progress 0/200, -5R per die)
--[] Veterans' Benefits Program 1 die 15R 0%
(-5 Paranoia)
(Progress 0/400, -15R per die)
-[] Personal 4/4 25F (-2 modifier)
--[] Korhal: Go Drinking with Colonel de Santo 2 dice 10F 86%
(Unlocks military-related Personal projects upon completion)
(DC 60 to avoid +10 Paranoia, -5F per die)
--[] Korhal: Have a Talk with Director Starke 2 dice + 1 free die 15F 94%
(Unlocks security-related Personal projects upon completion)
(DC 80 to avoid +10 Paranoia, -5F per die)
-[] Free Dice 4/4
-[] 3 in Heavy Industry
-[] 1 in Personal
-[] Resources stockpile 200/200 Income 165/405 Total 390/605
-[] Discretionary Funds (F) stockpile 10/10 Income 15/60 Total 25/70
 
I honestly consider our primary goal to strengthen and better the Dominion. We are loyal to the idea of the Terran dominion. Our secondary goal is to remove Mengsk. But we are nowhere near that point. He is still somewhat popular. We have no idea on who to replace him with (etc etc). We don't want anarchy. We aren't rebellion for rebellion sake. We definitely don't want a return to the Confederacy. We also know that Kerigan, the Queen of Blades, is out there. (and thanks to the canon omake we now are having dreams of her, though I think maybe its more than just dreams. I think maybe its a) she is doing some psychic things and b) maybe we are slightly psychic ourselves, which would be awesome!)

Anyway, while giving more resources to the Fringe Worlds so they boost up in capability makes sense for future actions we have more a piority in making the Dominion better.
 
I honestly consider our primary goal to strengthen and better the Dominion. We are loyal to the idea of the Terran dominion. Our secondary goal is to remove Mengsk. But we are nowhere near that point. He is still somewhat popular. We have no idea on who to replace him with (etc etc). We don't want anarchy. We aren't rebellion for rebellion sake. We definitely don't want a return to the Confederacy. We also know that Kerigan, the Queen of Blades, is out there. (and thanks to the canon omake we now are having dreams of her, though I think maybe its more than just dreams. I think maybe its a) she is doing some psychic things and b) maybe we are slightly psychic ourselves, which would be awesome!)

Anyway, while giving more resources to the Fringe Worlds so they boost up in capability makes sense for future actions we have more a piority in making the Dominion better.

Strengthening the Dominion and getting rid of Mengsk are not mutually exclusive. In fact, given how Mengsk would gladly burn down the entire Dominion just to preserve his own power, you could argue getting rid of him is one of the best ways to improve the state of the nation.
 
Strengthening the Dominion and getting rid of Mengsk are not mutually exclusive. In fact, given how Mengsk would gladly burn down the entire Dominion just to preserve his own power, you could argue getting rid of him is one of the best ways to improve the state of the nation.

I don't disagree. But I do think that the later needs to be done with logic and not simply "lets give Raynor everything so he can fight Mengsk". I made my comment in relation to Shard's comment, though I didn't realize at the time there was a post in between.

The thing is I feel that some people focus on the overthrowing part more than they do on making sure the Dominion prospers part. The prosper part is important due to the invasion of the UED and the Brood War and then later on the war against the corrupted Xel'naga. These things need a strong Dominion.

My ideas are that we talk to Starke, and from him we learn about a son and heir and such. Maybe we even learn of some potential heir-boosting actions we can take. We also build up more infrastructure and industry. We repair Mar Sara and, upon doing that, we aid Raynor's Raiders in having Outland Station. We balance our Paranoia gain vs our loyal to Mengsk actions so that we don't have him be that focused on us. We keep things under the radar for as long as we can while finding ways to make the Dominion stronger and better.

Anything that is too overt or too slapdash or too easy to pierce as us trying to overthrow him should be ignored for now.
 
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I'm not particularly interested in heir-boosting, to be frank. As far as it goes, though, we have a lot of options other than only Raynor's Raiders, including TRUST, the Unions, the mercenary elements--who could prove useful depending--and of course any help we can get from Starke and de Santo on the road.
 
[] Plan Union Legalizing, SCV Building, and Paranoia Balancing
-[] Infrastructure (6/6 dice, 30R)
--[] Korhal: Capital City Augustgrad (Phase 2) [MANDATORY] 262/400 (4 dice, 20 R)
--[] Brontes: Orbital Cleanup (Phase 2) [Reconstruction] 106/300 (2 dice, 10 R)
-[] Heavy Industry (5/5 dice+2 Free Dice, 70 R)
-- [] Vardona: Ardonin Heavy Vehicle Factory (Phase 2) 33/300 (7 dice, 70 R)
-[] Light Industry (5/5 dice, 25R)
--[] Mar Sara: Endureum Extraction Operations (Phase 1) 0/400 (5 dice, 25 R)
-[] Environmental (5/5 dice, 30R)
--[] Korhal: Regreening Effort (Phase 1) 48/100 (2 dice 10 R)
--[] Tyrador IX: Establish Farmsteads (Phase 2) [Reconstruction] 360/400 (2 dice, 10 R)
--[] Vardona: Supplemental Aquaculture Effort 0/250 (1 dice, 10 R)
-[] Services (5/5 dice, 50R)
--[] Korhal: Katherine Mengsk Memorial Veterans' Hospital [MANDATORY] [NEW] 0/300 (1 dice, 10 R)
--[] Mass Literacy Movement (Phase 2) 0/300 (4 dice, 40 R)
-[] Military (6/6 dice + 1 Free die, 70R)
-- [] Brontes: Fort Riley Orbital Training Center 0/300 (7 dice, 70 R)
-[] Research (5/5 dice, 65R)
--[] New Model Weaponry (Phase 2) [Tech] 198/250 (2 dice, 20 R)
--[] High-Efficiency Conduits [Tech] 0/200 (3 dice, 45 R)
-[] Bureaucracy (5/5 dice + 1 Free dice, 65R)
--[] Services/Administration/Logistics/Operations Mechanization Endeavor 94/300 (5 dice, 50 R)
-- [] Veterans' Benefits Program [MANDATORY] [NEW] 0/400 (1 dice, 15 R)
-[] Personal (4/4 dice)
--[] Nephor II: Legalize the Dominion Industrial Workers Union (4 dice, 20F)

I really like @the Laurent's plan, but I would much prefer to Legalize Unions. It gives more relations and we won't be making use of CAPP for a while given we don't have a training facility yet. Plus it's cheaper F-wise. Ended up putting the free die on Orbital Training Center so we have better odds of balancing things out. Would have liked to do Refloating, but that requires an autocomplete, and having it done next turn instead of this one throws off the Paranoia balancing.

I really wanted to get Trends done, but the massive to-do list convinced me to increase our dice load first. Won't be too much of a sacrifice to get it done next turn, plus doing Sally then Trends should require less free dice.
 
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[] Plan Super Cool Vehicles, Robots, Legal Unions, and Paranoia Balancing
-[] Infrastructure (6/6 dice, 30R)
--[] Korhal: Capital City Augustgrad (Phase 2) [MANDATORY] 262/400 (4 dice, 20 R)
--[] Brontes: Orbital Cleanup (Phase 2) [Reconstruction] 106/300 (2 dice, 10 R)
-[] Heavy Industry (5/5 dice+2 Free Dice, 70 R)
-- [] Vardona: Ardonin Heavy Vehicle Factory (Phase 2) 33/300 (7 dice, 70 R)
-[] Light Industry (5/5 dice, 25R)
--[] Mar Sara: Endureum Extraction Operations (Phase 1) 0/400 (5 dice, 25 R)
-[] Environmental (5/5 dice, 30R)
--[] Korhal: Regreening Effort (Phase 1) 48/100 (2 dice 10 R)
--[] Tyrador IX: Establish Farmsteads (Phase 2) [Reconstruction] 360/400 (2 dice, 10 R)
--[] Vardona: Supplemental Aquaculture Effort 0/250 (1 dice, 10 R)
-[] Services (5/5 dice, 50R)
--[] Korhal: Katherine Mengsk Memorial Veterans' Hospital [MANDATORY] [NEW] 0/300 (1 dice, 10 R)
--[] Mass Literacy Movement (Phase 2) 0/300 (4 dice, 40 R)
-[] Military (6/6 dice + 1 Free die, 70R)
-- [] Brontes: Fort Riley Orbital Training Center 0/300 (7 dice, 70 R)
-[] Research (5/5 dice, 65R)
--[] New Model Weaponry (Phase 2) [Tech] 198/250 (2 dice, 20 R)
--[] High-Efficiency Conduits [Tech] 0/200 (3 dice, 45 R)
-[] Bureaucracy (5/5 dice + 1 Free dice, 65R)
--[] Services/Administration/Logistics/Operations Mechanization Endeavor 94/300 (5 dice, 50 R)
-- [] Veterans' Benefits Program [MANDATORY] [NEW] 0/400 (1 dice, 15 R)
-[] Personal (4/4 dice)
--[] Nephor II: Legalize the Dominion Industrial Workers Union (4 dice, 20F)

I really like @the Laurent's plan, but I would much prefer to Legalize Unions. It gives more relations and we won't be making use of CAPP for a while given we don't have a training facility yet. Plus it's cheaper F-wise. Ended up putting the free die on Orbital Training Center so we have better odds of balancing things out. Would have liked to do Refloating, but that requires an autocomplete, and having it done next turn instead of this one throws off the Paranoia balancing.

I really wanted to get Trends done, but the massive to-do list convinced me to increase our dice load first. Won't be too much of a sacrifice to get it done next turn, plus doing Sally then Trends should require less free dice.

The odds aren't really terrible, but I'd still prefer to get the full +10 per dice from Nephor II rather than the +5 it nets to with the Center of Power penalty, personally. I get the desire, and I really do wanna do Legalizing the Unions... even if I think we should give them aid ala the TRUST connection and so on before we legalize them so that they have something to stand on, as it were?
 
I could condemn this sort of, "There must be one King" mindset as silly, and it kinda is.

But what it's actually doing that's worst of all is neglecting Comrade Smith, Vanguard of the Revolution from his rightful position as absolute dictator of an oppressive bureaucratic state! :V
 
I could condemn this sort of, "There must be one King" mindset as silly, and it kinda is.

But what it's actually doing that's worst of all is neglecting Comrade Smith, Vanguard of the Revolution from his rightful position as absolute dictator of an oppressive bureaucratic state! :V

I believe in Terran Bureaucratia.
 
I believe in the Terran Dominion! And I believe it should have a Horner, especially Chuck since we are the Magistrate, or it should have Valerian. I also do not believe this is silly at all.
 
I'm not going to get into that argument again, I don't find it fun or interesting or useful.

So instead I'm going to comment on a thing that I think we might all agree on.

When we work on Mar Sara the order of certain actions are super important narratively. First step is fixing the biosphere. Only then can we begin the settlement process. And only then can we think about giving Outland Station to Raynor's Raiders secretly. While doing it somewhat consecutively can work doing it in another order would make no sense.

I also think that us developing more TRUST stuff makes a lot of sense. That and working on Fringe World stuff. And also Guild stuff. I think direct mercenary stuff - so Mira - is not as high a priority as the TRUST or the Fringe World or the Guild.
 
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