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Attempting to Subvert the Plan: Dominion Edition

Retcon: Should General Horner (the MC) have been The Magistrate (Starcraft 1 PC)?

  • Yes

    Votes: 35 43.8%

  • No

    Votes: 29 36.3%

  • This does not matter to me

    Votes: 16 20.0%
  • Total voters
    80
  • Poll closed .
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Simon_Jester said:
Remind me again how you know "Fixed Limit will have us gaining huge chunks of Paranoia every year?" Specifically the 'huge' part?

I mean, me, I'm expecting to just need to take Personal actions to embezzle more funds, and we can make those pretty low-risk by throwing enough dice at them.
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We haven't even been given a single extra one of these "Personal actions to embezzle more funds" after the first. The setup seems pretty clear that the way we will increase our budget is... increasing our budget. Insider trading of the sort we're doing kinda has a natural limit within the large scale of "planetary resources", which is why we got 15 F out of it, and not "a theoretically infinite amount of F."
 
Remember how you've pointed out in the past that as the Dominion economy recovers, the Treasury's budget share becomes larger?

Shouldn't the same thing happen to the scale of insider trading opportunities?
 
Simon_Jester said:
Remember how you've pointed out in the past that as the Dominion economy recovers, the Treasury's budget share becomes larger?

Shouldn't the same thing happen to the scale of insider trading opportunities?
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Not to the same degree, to be honest? Like, I obviously can't speculate on specifics but I'd be surprised if Insider Trading opportunities grew nearly as fast as the Treasury Budget, because we're fundamentally using a vehicle of Personal Wealth to try to fund an entire insurgency against a dictator. We should be lucky to have gotten 15 F a quarter, tbh.

...also even if that was the case, that'd mean that by the time the Overall Budget was 1200 R (presumably we'd try to stick with 50% of it) a Quarter, we'd be able to get 30 F of Insider Trading. Which is certainly not nothing but isn't really the answer to all of our prayers either.
 
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I'm still not sure on the 45/50 allocation or the flat vs percentage on discretionary funding. I do know I want all 6 leverage actions and yes on moving.
 
50% allocation is the minimum I'm willing to accept. We need money to get our job done, and it's not like we haven't proven we get stuff done with it.

I'd prefer Percentage because I'm betting percentage will carry over between years and we won't have to worry about it ever again as opposed to taking a yearly Paranoia hit sneaking ever-increasing sums into our account.
 
A clarification: The +5 Suspicion you incur from switching over to a percentage-based formula is a one-time thing. Adjusting the percentage later (or the fixed amount, if you go that direction) may increase Paranoia, but it won't increase Suspicion.
 
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Discount Change
  • Informational
    • Okay, a change on how cost and progress mechanics will work going forward:

    Previously, I was just applying discounts as they arose, and then basing new project costs off the old discounted costs. So if a 10R/die project was reduced to 5R/die, then the next phase would be 10R/die, not 15R/die. This system does not allow for time-limited discounts and isn't very clear, bookkeeping-wise.

    From now on (starting in Turn 7) projects will have independent required Progress and per-die costs, to which I will then apply the relevant discounts. I'll add a section to the treasury stats later listing all active discounts.

    As a result of this change, the Space Defenders option in the 2508 budget negotiations will be rebalanced to serve as a -10R discount to all space-based projects, to a minimum of 5R/die, to expire at the end of Q4 2508.

    In order to give people more time to consider this change, I'm putting another 12 hours on the moratorium.

    Thank you for your indulgence and for your continued participation.
     
  • Informational
    • Mellowfellow said:
    I'm not really sold on spending 2 leverage on Space Defenders considering how very little are space-based projects. I'd rather not take Duke's fleet obligations either, just do 50% budget + Surplus Redux + Running Interference for 4 leverage total.

    We can swallow the +10 Paranoia gain. Ambivalent on moving to Korhal, that -5 to all non-Korhal dice is painful. I feel like I'd rather eat the +20 paranoia but I can understand if it's not popular.
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    Space-based projects are fewer than their terrestrial counterparts, true. However, they are expensive enough that they make up a rather disproportionate amount of our R expenses. Moreover, as @Simon_Jester already said, they are too darn useful to really ignore. I mean Angustia Yards alone is practically a must-do given the unholy state of our merchant marine.
     
    I definitely think all six Leverage options should be taken. The cost reduction in Space Defenders and the Paranoia reduction in Security one beneift us greatly.

    Us making Suspicion 10 at this point MIGHT not be so bad if we find some -Suspicion actions - though I agree with Simon who said that its probably going to be really Mensgk loving things so we might hesitate on them. That said we are also the dude who knows him the best and so I think there might be some worthwhile options there. But that is just a guess.

    But yeah us going 50% and us going percentage, as long as we go all six Leverage options, is not something I am super against. But I really think the all six Leverage options are important.
     
    My plan is at the moment the only one that has the space defenders in it so we can Crack quickly the Refloating the fleet and both shipyards

    To build our military and merchant fleets as well any other space projects that come in the upcoming year

    We need to prepare for the UED and kerrigan invasions
     
    HeruKane said:
    I definitely think all six Leverage options should be taken. The cost reduction in Space Defenders and the Paranoia reduction in Security one beneift us greatly.

    Us making Suspicion 10 at this point MIGHT not be so bad if we find some -Suspicion actions - though I agree with Simon who said that its probably going to be really Mensgk loving things so we might hesitate on them. That said we are also the dude who knows him the best and so I think there might be some worthwhile options there. But that is just a guess.

    But yeah us going 50% and us going percentage, as long as we go all six Leverage options, is not something I am super against. But I really think the all six Leverage options are important.
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    ...I think we're going to find somewhat slimmer pickings from now on, and we also still have to pay for the Paranoia gain from whatever increae to the Personal budget we do. The -10 Paranoia is meant to help pay for that in my plan.
     
    If we go 45 then we get -10 Paranoia due to the extra Leverage we have in spare. We could still go percentage but its a smaller budget.

    I'm a huge fan of the three discount options we get in the leverage area.

    ---

    That said we start the turn with 25 Paranoia, going to 35 Paranoia isn't so bad when we do have some Paranoia reducing things - like Korhol.
     
    Thule said:
    Think we should do "An Actual Goddamn Fleet" as really the Dominion need to get its fleet to defend its worlds
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    I don't think that the poor state of the Dominion Navy is up for debate. However, assuming average rolls, we will need to throw more than half our HI dice and over a quarter of our Military dice over the next four turns on those projects to complete them.

    That is a huge investment of dice, and we've got plenty of other stuff we want to do in HI. The second phase of the Megacomplex, the Vardona Terrestrial Shipyards (to fix Vardona's Bad transport infrastructure and possibly make Vespene production easier), and the dice reduction projects are all HI, and all appealing. That's without getting into how much it will cost us R-wise.

    Duke's proposal is rather ambitious, to say the least. The question is whether or not the Leverage is worth heavily prioritizing a problem that, while serious, probably isn't "needs to be done next year" serious.
     
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    It might be that urgent and the naval strategy is a long term one as after the shipyard is completed/expanded is only the start of building the actual ships.
     
    Fenrir44 said:
    My plan is at the moment the only one that has the space defenders in it so we can Crack quickly the Refloating the fleet and both shipyards

    To build our military and merchant fleets as well any other space projects that come in the upcoming year

    We need to prepare for the UED and kerrigan invasions
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    Um, my plan does so as well. The only difference between is that I went percentage-based. I actually made a variant that was identical to yours, but I struck it through when I realized that you had already come up with the same plan.
     
    Etranger said:
    Okay, a change on how cost and progress mechanics will work going forward:

    Previously, I was just applying discounts as they arose, and then basing new project costs off the old discounted costs. So if a 10R/die project was reduced to 5R/die, then the next phase would be 10R/die, not 15R/die. This system does not allow for time-limited discounts and isn't very clear, bookkeeping-wise.
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    Well, that made sense for phased projects where we were getting our cost reductions from permanent upgrades to our construction-industrial complex! Which, most of the time, is where we see this.

    Sure, there would tend to be a limit (since just doing more and more of the same thing doesn't necessarily crack a barrier of 15-20 R/die expense), but then, there'd be a limit to the available cost reductions from construction projects.

    From now on (starting in Turn 7) projects will have independent required Progress and per-die costs, to which I will then apply the relevant discounts. I'll add a section to the treasury stats later listing all active discounts.

    As a result of this change, the Space Defenders option in the 2508 budget negotiations will be rebalanced to serve as a -10R discount to all space-based projects, to a minimum of 5R/die, to expire at the end of Q4 2508.

    In order to give people more time to consider this change, I'm putting another 12 hours on the moratorium.

    Thank you for your indulgence and for your continued participation.
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    I... didn't realize how that wasn't how it already worked...?
     
    Having thought it over, this is the plan I'll be running when the moratorium ends.

    [] Plan: All In
    -[] 50% of the Dominion Budget - -2 Leverage
    -[] An Actual Goddamn Fleet - +2 Leverage
    -[] The Sludge Must Flow - +1 Leverage
    -[] A Nice Chat Over Lunch - +1 Leverage
    -[] Military Surplus Redux - -1 Leverage
    -[] Space Defenders - -2 Leverage
    -[] Running Interference - -1 Leverage
    -[] Accept the deal - no change
    -[] Make it percentage-based - +5 Suspicion

    Leverage: 1 - 2 + 2 + 1 + 1 - 1 - 2 - 1 = -1, +10 Paranoia

    This'll start us in the Funding round at 35 Paranoia, which is high but not too high, especially when we have a guaranteed -40 Paranoia coming down the pipe. Suspicion is bad, but with the confirmation that it's a one time cost I'd rather get the bandaid ripped off earlier. It effectively means 1 fewer year, and I think over the course of the quest the extra skulduggery it will enable will be more than worth 1 year.

    We have about a decade before Suspicion becomes a crisis point, assuming that we never take any actions that reduce it, which is... a very long time. A very long time indeed. Long enough that I'm confident we can get ourselves in a good spot to off Mengsk sometime after the Brood War, which will in any case completely change all political calculus.
     
    Lets please not bring any Paranoia or Suspicion on to us when it is needless

    And choose a plan that does that well keeping the Status quo in our funding

    Make the necessary promises to do that well choosing the boons that help us doing in making them

    So no Make it percentage-based
     
    A base floor of 15 still gives us 60 Paranoia to burn through before we even start seeing consequences, which are reduced because we're Chuck.

    Grimely said:
    A fun exercise I like to do is invert Paranoia to convert it back into Political Support and we've never gone below 50 on that metric. Hell, I don't think we've ever gone below 70.
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    grimely said:
    Having thought it over, this is the plan I'll be running when the moratorium ends.

    [] Plan: All In
    -[] 50% of the Dominion Budget - -2 Leverage
    -[] An Actual Goddamn Fleet - +2 Leverage
    -[] The Sludge Must Flow - +1 Leverage
    -[] A Nice Chat Over Lunch - +1 Leverage
    -[] Military Surplus Redux - -1 Leverage
    -[] Space Defenders - -2 Leverage
    -[] Running Interference - -1 Leverage
    -[] Accept the deal - no change
    -[] Make it percentage-based - +5 Suspicion

    Leverage: 1 - 2 + 2 + 1 + 1 - 1 - 2 - 1 = -1, +10 Paranoia

    This'll start us in the Funding round at 35 Paranoia, which is high but not too high, especially when we have a guaranteed -40 Paranoia coming down the pipe. Suspicion is bad, but with the confirmation that it's a one time cost I'd rather get the bandaid ripped off earlier. It effectively means 1 fewer year, and I think over the course of the quest the extra skulduggery it will enable will be more than worth 1 year.

    We have about a decade before Suspicion becomes a crisis point, assuming that we never take any actions that reduce it, which is... a very long time. A very long time indeed. Long enough that I'm confident we can get ourselves in a good spot to off Mengsk sometime after the Brood War, which will in any case completely change all political calculus.
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    Honestly the more I think about it the more this is probably the plan I want. I'm still not entirely sure about the percentage BUT I want all six leverages and it seems everyone wants 50%, which adds Paranoia and I'm fine with us getting that.

    So we start next turn at 30 Paranoia, which will be padded away when we finish some of the projects close to completion so its not a big deal.

    Suspicion having a base of 10 is also not that much higher than Suspicion 5, especially as we don't really go under 10 much anyway. Also 30 and 40 Suspicion isn't really bad since we often do it right before we also do things that reduce it - since we are strategic about our choices.
     
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