Sailor_Skarro
The Lurker
That would be ideal, but on the other hand we can't overthrow Mengsk if the Zerg eat us or if the UED stomps our faces in.
Attempting to Subvert the Plan: Dominion Edition
- Thread starter Etranger
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
-
- Tags
- starcraft plan quest
We are loyal to the Terran Dominion but not so loyal to Mengsk. So we don't want to cause the Dominion to collapse, we just wouldn't be against Mengsk not being Emperor anymore.
The thing is our character doesn't really have any actual hardened plans on the removal or the replacement hence the waiting and the development.
(Personally I want Mengsk's son to reign cause he is as good a guy as you get in StarCraft lore.)
- Pronouns
- She/Her
If we're appointing someone's nephew to the throne it better damn well be ours!
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Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
I would suggest something like this:
[] 60% of the Dominion Budget -4 Leverage
[] An Actual Goddamn Fleet +2 leverage
[] A Nice Chat Over Lunch +1 Leverage
[] Accept the deal
[] Make it percentage-based +5 Suspicion (10)
Get to work on the Subvert the Plan part of this quest.
10 Suspicion just means our paranoia can't go below 10, which is pretty meh honestly compared to getting a big jump-start on overthrowing Mengsk.
[] 60% of the Dominion Budget -4 Leverage
[] An Actual Goddamn Fleet +2 leverage
[] A Nice Chat Over Lunch +1 Leverage
[] Accept the deal
[] Make it percentage-based +5 Suspicion (10)
Get to work on the Subvert the Plan part of this quest.
10 Suspicion just means our paranoia can't go below 10, which is pretty meh honestly compared to getting a big jump-start on overthrowing Mengsk.
- Pronouns
- They
How does this reduce Paranoia by 10? It's Net neutral leverage even including the +5/-5 from percentage-based funds/Starke deal.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
The trick is that we can use this intentionally to court more Paranoia than we otherwise would or postpone Paranoia-lowering actions.
So no, I disagree, I think we'd effectively enjoy the benefit on all four turns.
On the one hand, it's only fair that if we're promising Duke major improvements in the condition of the fleet (on par with the improvements we've already given him this past year), that we ask him to secure those sites in return.
On the other hand, those are fairly important projects we kind of need to do either which way, whether we promise them or not. The Dominion being defenseless when the UED rolls around won't help anyone.
Well yes.
My point is that Mengsk's Suspicion stat is, loosely speaking, the doomsday clock on the entire quest. The idea of doing anything that advances the doomsday clock, even if right now it reads "57 minutes to midnight," is something I view with, ah, a lively sense of trepidation.
I hope you see where I'm coming from.
Sailor_Skarro
The Lurker
We have a bonus Leverage from an omake.
Any plan that basically works to ruin the Dominion, and thus Terran society, is no plan I can support. There is totally possible ways to cause Mengsk himself issues, but we should never work to cause issues for either Terrans as a whole or the Dominion in particular. We WANT the Dominion to be strong enough to support and aid Terrans.
The 'subvert' part in this title is not against the Dominion, its against Mengsk. This nuance matters.
The 'subvert' part in this title is not against the Dominion, its against Mengsk. This nuance matters.
- Pronouns
- They
I'm not really sold on spending 2 leverage on Space Defenders considering how very little are space-based projects. I'd rather not take Duke's fleet obligations either, just do 50% budget + Surplus Redux + Running Interference for 4 leverage total.
We can swallow the +10 Paranoia gain. Ambivalent on moving to Korhal, that -5 to all non-Korhal dice is painful. I feel like I'd rather eat the +20 paranoia but I can understand if it's not popular.
We can swallow the +10 Paranoia gain. Ambivalent on moving to Korhal, that -5 to all non-Korhal dice is painful. I feel like I'd rather eat the +20 paranoia but I can understand if it's not popular.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
The problem is, then we either have to pay extra on those space projects (and on any other space projects like the Angustia Yards that benefit the civilian economy), or we have to just not do any space projects.
The former option is a pain. The latter option leaves the Dominion's defenses very weak.
It's probably only for one turn. Given that dialing Paranoia back may get harder at any time depending on what projects are available, it's probably best to just take the hit.
Also, I wouldn't be surprised if a spike in Paranoia in a single turn cashes out as increased risk of incurring greater Suspicion.
It could be argued that the lessened Paranoia gains means we can work faster, and that counteracts moving up the doomsday clock. Still, it's a good point, so I'll add a variant to my plan that goes for a flat rate.
Edit: And done
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I mean, there are valid arguments for eating the +5 Suspicion to have a bigger slush fund. I'm not denying it.
I just hope people can understand why I consider it to be a major sacrifice, a heavy price to pay. It's not even meaningfully inconvenient to us now, but it effectively means that the doomsday clock on this quest will be fated to go "tick-tick-tick-BRRRINNNG!" some time sooner than it otherwise would.
I just hope people can understand why I consider it to be a major sacrifice, a heavy price to pay. It's not even meaningfully inconvenient to us now, but it effectively means that the doomsday clock on this quest will be fated to go "tick-tick-tick-BRRRINNNG!" some time sooner than it otherwise would.
grimely
Twink Death Sufferer
[] Plan: Everybody's Best Friend
-[] 45% of the Dominion Budget - +0 Leverage
-[] An Actual Goddamn Fleet - +2 Leverage
-[] The Sludge Must Flow - +1 Leverage
-[] A Nice Chat Over Lunch - +1 Leverage
-[] Military Surplus Redux - -1 Leverage
-[] Space Defenders - -2 Leverage
-[] Running Interference - -1 Leverage
-[] Accept the deal - no change
-[] Keep it as a fixed amount - no change
Leverage: 1 + 0 + 2 + 1 + 1 - 1 - 2 - 1 = 1, -10 Paranoia
[] Plan: Hold Our Ground
-[] 45% of the Dominion Budget - +0 Leverage
-[] An Actual Goddamn Fleet - +2 Leverage
-[] The Sludge Must Flow - +1 Leverage
-[] A Nice Chat Over Lunch - +1 Leverage
-[] Military Surplus Redux - -1 Leverage
-[] Space Defenders - -2 Leverage
-[] Running Interference - -1 Leverage
-[] Stick to the original plan - +20 Paranoia
-[] Keep it as a fixed amount - no change
Leverage: 1 + 0 + 2 + 1 + 1 - 1 - 2 - 1 = 1, -10 Paranoia + 20 Paranoia from refusing the deal = +10 Paranoia
[] Plan: All In
-[] 50% of the Dominion Budget - -2 Leverage
-[] An Actual Goddamn Fleet - +2 Leverage
-[] The Sludge Must Flow - +1 Leverage
-[] A Nice Chat Over Lunch - +1 Leverage
-[] Military Surplus Redux - -1 Leverage
-[] Space Defenders - -2 Leverage
-[] Running Interference - -1 Leverage
-[] Accept the deal - no change
-[] Make it percentage-based - +5 Suspicion
Leverage: 1 - 2 + 2 + 1 + 1 - 1 - 2 - 1 = -1, +10 Paranoia
So I'll be honest, everything that we're being asked to do are good ideas anyway and in most cases things I was planning to do already. The only thing I hadn't sketched out was Endereum mining, but frankly LCI is open enough at the moment that we can afford to dip into it for a few turns. Surplus and Interference are obviously great, but I think Space Defender is getting a bad rap. It applies to all space projects, from Refloating the Fleet and Dylarian Shipyards (two incredible expensive things almost all of us want to do) as well as the Angustia freighter yards which we... really need.
Everything else is up to Paranoia and Suspicion tolerance, really.
-[] 45% of the Dominion Budget - +0 Leverage
-[] An Actual Goddamn Fleet - +2 Leverage
-[] The Sludge Must Flow - +1 Leverage
-[] A Nice Chat Over Lunch - +1 Leverage
-[] Military Surplus Redux - -1 Leverage
-[] Space Defenders - -2 Leverage
-[] Running Interference - -1 Leverage
-[] Accept the deal - no change
-[] Keep it as a fixed amount - no change
Leverage: 1 + 0 + 2 + 1 + 1 - 1 - 2 - 1 = 1, -10 Paranoia
[] Plan: Hold Our Ground
-[] 45% of the Dominion Budget - +0 Leverage
-[] An Actual Goddamn Fleet - +2 Leverage
-[] The Sludge Must Flow - +1 Leverage
-[] A Nice Chat Over Lunch - +1 Leverage
-[] Military Surplus Redux - -1 Leverage
-[] Space Defenders - -2 Leverage
-[] Running Interference - -1 Leverage
-[] Stick to the original plan - +20 Paranoia
-[] Keep it as a fixed amount - no change
Leverage: 1 + 0 + 2 + 1 + 1 - 1 - 2 - 1 = 1, -10 Paranoia + 20 Paranoia from refusing the deal = +10 Paranoia
[] Plan: All In
-[] 50% of the Dominion Budget - -2 Leverage
-[] An Actual Goddamn Fleet - +2 Leverage
-[] The Sludge Must Flow - +1 Leverage
-[] A Nice Chat Over Lunch - +1 Leverage
-[] Military Surplus Redux - -1 Leverage
-[] Space Defenders - -2 Leverage
-[] Running Interference - -1 Leverage
-[] Accept the deal - no change
-[] Make it percentage-based - +5 Suspicion
Leverage: 1 - 2 + 2 + 1 + 1 - 1 - 2 - 1 = -1, +10 Paranoia
So I'll be honest, everything that we're being asked to do are good ideas anyway and in most cases things I was planning to do already. The only thing I hadn't sketched out was Endereum mining, but frankly LCI is open enough at the moment that we can afford to dip into it for a few turns. Surplus and Interference are obviously great, but I think Space Defender is getting a bad rap. It applies to all space projects, from Refloating the Fleet and Dylarian Shipyards (two incredible expensive things almost all of us want to do) as well as the Angustia freighter yards which we... really need.
Everything else is up to Paranoia and Suspicion tolerance, really.
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
After all; we are out to get him.
- Location
- alphen aan den rijn
as much as i like having massive funds to do things with others need cash too to do things.
[] Plan: Everybody's Best Friend
edit: because vote time
[] Plan: Everybody's Best Friend
edit: because vote time
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F0lkL0re
Officially not an Inquisitor
- Location
- Shetland
I hate to have to be the one to tell you this but voting has yet to start.
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Suspicion is a doomclock with "Game Over" as the consequence. It just went up by 5 through no action of our own. We should avoid deliberately raising it unless it's for critically important actions. Saying "oh, 10 is fine" ignores how it's going to keep going up and up and up over the course of the quest, even if we don't take any +Suspicion options.
Time is a far more valuable resource than Funds. The more time we have, the more of everything we can do. Raising Susicion deliberately is trading away time for short-term gains. It's seriously not worth it.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
...beating him will involve actually doing things to improve our ability to defeat him. I don't think it's short-sighted at all. We need the flexibility of our funding actually being able to increase without having to CONSTANTLY come back here to increase the fixed amount and risk higher Paranoia.
Like, the ability to actually fund our Personal section is how we get Dice and Costly Projects and how we overthrow the bastard. Throwing that away because "Suspicion bad" is trading away medium and long term gains for short-term peace of mind.
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- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Is dealing with funding problems worth +5 Suspicion, which is far worse than Paranoia, and is described as far harder to reduce as well? I don't think so. Just because this option will help us doesn't mean it's worth the price.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
We can counter higher Paranoia from expanding the slush fund more easily than we can counter higher Suspicion.
Also, I suspect that many of the Suspicion-lowering actions will be things that we as a thread will be reluctant to do, such as "sign lists of death warrants among our employees as part of a purge" or "set a trap for union leaders on Nephor II and make ourselves hated on a planet where we would otherwise have a lot of supporters."
Think about what kind of action makes a man like Mengsk more likely to believe we are reliable and will not turn on him no matter what. Just developing him a new gun won't do the job; it's going to be something downright unwholesome.
Also, I suspect that many of the Suspicion-lowering actions will be things that we as a thread will be reluctant to do, such as "sign lists of death warrants among our employees as part of a purge" or "set a trap for union leaders on Nephor II and make ourselves hated on a planet where we would otherwise have a lot of supporters."
Think about what kind of action makes a man like Mengsk more likely to believe we are reliable and will not turn on him no matter what. Just developing him a new gun won't do the job; it's going to be something downright unwholesome.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
...+5 Suspicion is basically nothing. Like I really don't get this mindset at all.
We're really going to fuck over our entire ability to ever defeat Mengsk if we decide that gaining five Suspicion is the doom of our project.
Because yes, dealing with Funding problems in what is honestly the most vital section of the entire Action set IS worse than 5 Suspicion. It's worse than 30 Paranoia. It's worse than anything.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
You have a doomsday clock. If it counts up to 20, the game ends no matter what you do. Realistically, the game may become unplayable or nearly so if it gets as high as, say, 15. It will become noticeably harder to play if it gets up to, say, 10.
+1 on the doomsday clock is not nothing.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
It isn't much at all when we've managed to literally keep our Paranoia as low as it's been. It's certainly not worth legitimately crippling our ability to destroy Mengsk at all just to avoid +5 Suspicion.
Fixed Percentage will have a one time Suspicion cost, and a one-time Paranoia cost, and then after that we're good for the rest of the game. Fixed Limit will have us gaining huge chunks of Paranoia every year... while also starving for resources in the meantime. Which is bad because literally the only way we have to stop Suspicion for good is to end Mengsk.
E: And this is admittedly even assuming that the people who are panicking at the idea of +5 Suspicion won't be similarly stingy at actually defeating Mengsk when it comes time to decide the fixed amount and they get sticker shock at the prices.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Remind me again how you know "Fixed Limit will have us gaining huge chunks of Paranoia every year?" Specifically the 'huge' part?
I mean, me, I'm expecting to just need to take Personal actions to embezzle more funds, and we can make those pretty low-risk by throwing enough dice at them.
I mean, me, I'm expecting to just need to take Personal actions to embezzle more funds, and we can make those pretty low-risk by throwing enough dice at them.