Attempting to Subvert the Plan: Dominion Edition

[Simon_Jester]

Exactly, that's one of the reasons I included it in my plan even though it's going to cost 10 Paranoia, because the Resource reduction is important for a bunch of key actions that cost an awkward 15 R that are now 10 (and also makes Brontes a frown-worthy 15 R, rather than a groan-worthy 20 R.)

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It also makes some quite important things like Nephor II reconstruction cost a mere 5 R/die.

Again, if the Nephor industrial complex is important, so is the reconstruction. Reconstruction is what we need to rebuild destroyed infrastructure and get housing conditions on the planet up to normal, and the industrial workforce won't be productive if we don't do that, no matter how new and shiny their tools are. I'm sorry to keep banging this drum, but we really need to prioritize that, especially if we're going to lean into Victoria's Uncrowned Queen trait.

 

[The Laurent]

It also makes some quite important things like Nephor II reconstruction cost a mere 5 R/die.

Again, if the Nephor industrial complex is important, so is the reconstruction. Reconstruction is what we need to rebuild destroyed infrastructure and get housing conditions on the planet up to normal, and the industrial workforce won't be productive if we don't do that, no matter how new and shiny their tools are. I'm sorry to keep banging this drum, but we really need to prioritize that, especially if we're going to lean into Victoria's Uncrowned Queen trait.

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Unfortunately it's to a minimum/floor of 10 R.

 

[The Laurent]

My Infrastructure Plan for next turn right now looks something like.

5 dice, 2 Free dice spent:

Augustgrad--2 dice, 10 R
--Self-explanatory.
Brontes--1 die, 15 R
--We've started it and despite bad rolls it'd actually be worse not to finish it... and as a Reconstruction action we're required to do it, and leaving those Zerg hiding out and etc won't help. It also might reduce costs for Refloat the fleet. So a dice a turn to get it done with this year.
Reconstruct Nephor--4 dice (including the 2 free dice), 40 R, on average we get over a third of the way done in a single turn.

 

[Simon_Jester]

Unfortunately it's to a minimum/floor of 10 R.

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Crap. Missed that. Though it's still good as-is.

My Infrastructure Plan for next turn right now looks something like.

5 dice, 2 Free dice spent:

Augustgrad--2 dice, 10 R
--Self-explanatory.
Brontes--1 die, 15 R
--We've started it and despite bad rolls it'd actually be worse not to finish it... and as a Reconstruction action we're required to do it, and leaving those Zerg hiding out and etc won't help. It also might reduce costs for Refloat the fleet. So a dice a turn to get it done with this year.
Reconstruct Nephor--4 dice (including the 2 free dice), 40 R, on average we get over a third of the way done in a single turn.

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...Thank you.

Though I might stretch to two Brontes dice, so we actually stand a chance of finishing the project. It's a salvage operation, which probably means "no lasting income trickle, but some cash up front," and we surely could use some cash up front.

 

[The Laurent]

Crap. Missed that. Though it's still good as-is.

...Thank you.

Though I might stretch to two Brontes dice, so we actually stand a chance of finishing the project. It's a salvage operation, which probably means "no lasting income trickle, but some cash up front," and we surely could use some cash up front.

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There's not really the dice for that, because my plan currently throws another of the Free Dice to Heavy Industry for some Nephor action (Three for the Vehicle, 2 for Nephor Industrial), and the last Free Dice probably to Bureaucracy to get a good start on the Census (3 for T&R, 2 for Census, out of 4/4 dice.)

With Brontes we do have the fact that after next turn we're going to be getting even more bonuses (I'm taking the Hire Staff choice, and honestly everyone should) and a chance to reduce our penalty, which might make it easier to plunge into it after that.

As far as it goes, my '07 goals in Infrastructure are:

Augustgrad, Brontes, and Nephor Phase 1 AND Supply Bunkers Phase 1, which is definitely going to be a big lift and relies on at least getting average rolls, but I think is doable.

 

[Mechanis]

Hm.

So here's my analysis:
For budget percentage, we're going to need half of it. At least.

That said, I don't think we can swing 60%, not really; so taking 50 and making do with less in some places is probably going to be needed.

Shipyards: no way, no how. We cannot afford to spin those up until we've gotten more of the basic industrial stuff humming along, and the resources that come with them.

Broken Mesa: on the one hand, this is almost certainly going to go horribly wrong. On the other, it's something we can get built pretty quick, in a catagory that's not got mountains of more pressing projects.
Maybe we can mandate that the place has to have a nice, big nuke buried under it, with both local and remote detonation controls.

Just so if things go Zergling-shaped we can cleanse the whole bloody place in Oppenheimer's Holy Light.


Census: we're going to have to do this anyway, we might as well get paid twice for it.
And there's no reason we can't do a little... judicious fudging... of certain details.
When needed.


Military Surplus: yes please, put that crap to work. If anyone whines about it, point out that when we're done with spinning up industry we'll be able to replace the lot, with interest, easily. Basically an extension of "Speed money now to make money later."

(And if a crisis that needed those reserves came along we'd be humped anyway, since they're almost certainly not anything close to enough to feed a war for very long without active industry covering most of it, not that that's likely to happen.)

Guard: eh. Dook put down the worst of it, and Brontes is kinda a side hustle at this point; valuable, but not worth burning a favor on.

Security: yes please, I would like to do more with less. We absolutely need this, no question.

Mensk's Deal: we absolutely should take this; keep the Paranoia low, keep the megalomaniac's toast fully buttered, and keep him from even considering that he might need to look at our activities more closely.

And it's just a good deal on the face of it, with the other things in mind.


Combined, that should let us start to really rock-'n'-roll over the next year.

 

[Simon_Jester]

There's not really the dice for that, because my plan currently throws another of the Free Dice to Heavy Industry for some Nephor action (Three for the Vehicle, 2 for Nephor Industrial), and the last Free Dice probably to Bureaucracy to get a good start on the Census (3 for T&R, 2 for Census, out of 4/4 dice.)

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Uh... wait. You have three projects in Infrastructure in your list: Augustgrad, Brontes, and Nephor II reconstruction (as distinct from the new Nephor II industrial complex action).

Why would it be impractical to take one die off the Nephor II reconstruction and put it on Brontes?

With Brontes we do have the fact that after next turn we're going to be getting even more bonuses (I'm taking the Hire Staff choice, and honestly everyone should) and a chance to reduce our penalty, which might make it easier to plunge into it after that.

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Yeah, but if you're going to follow that line of reasoning, why not just put Brontes off until next turn entirely? There's no real advantage in rolling one die on the project this turn and one next turn, as opposed to two next turn, when it takes a minimum of two dice to complete the project even in principle.

Broken Mesa: on the one hand, this is almost certainly going to go horribly wrong. On the other, it's something we can get built pretty quick, in a catagory that's not got mountains of more pressing projects.
Maybe we can mandate that the place has to have a nice, big nuke buried under it, with both local and remote detonation controls.

Click to shrink...

It's on Korhal, and it's Mengsk in charge. There's going to be plenty of troops (and nuclear firepower) around to hammer on the site if things get out of control.

From Brood War canon, we know Mengsk has absolutely no problem with the idea of using tactical nukes on Korhal to destroy threatening enemy forces.

 

[The Laurent]

Uh... wait. You have three projects in Infrastructure in your list: Augustgrad, Brontes, and Nephor II reconstruction (as distinct from the new Nephor II industrial complex action).

Why would it be impractical to take one die off the Nephor II reconstruction and put it on Brontes?


Yeah, but if you're going to follow that line of reasoning, why not just put Brontes off until next turn entirely? There's no real advantage in rolling one die on the project this turn and one next turn, as opposed to two next turn, when it takes a minimum of two dice to complete the project even in principle.

It's on Korhal, and it's Mengsk in charge. There's going to be plenty of troops (and nuclear firepower) around to hammer on the site if things get out of control.

From Brood War canon, we know Mengsk has absolutely no problem with the idea of using tactical nukes on Korhal to destroy threatening enemy forces.

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It does cost 15 R even AFTER the cost reduction, so that's a factor to evaluate about how much should be spent on it per turn. It's a small thing, but it could matter... depends, I guess.

 

[Mordred]

I'd really prefer to see military surplus in addition to the security, that 100 point progress discount would save us quite a lot of dice and resources to use elsewhere. The extra paranoia can be easily handled by using some of those dice and resources for other projects which reduce paranoia.

 

[Simon_Jester]

It does cost 15 R even AFTER the cost reduction, so that's a factor to evaluate about how much should be spent on it per turn. It's a small thing, but it could matter... depends, I guess.

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Well yeah, but there's effectively no way to complete it without two dice.

We might as well either front-load with two dice this turn and have some chance of getting the rewards for next turn, or procrastinate so we can make more progress on other, cheaper projects this turn.

 

[Resonant]

Why don't we just grab both the shiny options (Military Surplus + Security) and swallow the Paranoia gain? We're currently at an all-time low of (20) and the +100 free progress on each Reconstruction project is incredibly lucrative. We're expected gain Paranoia reductions from the Zerg Facility (-10) anyways, and Horner is well-equipped to shrugging off heat from Mengsk. I don't see the concern until we hit the 50-60s.

 

[Mechanis]

Yeah, I'm definitely of the opinion that we can swallow the Paranoia for both those. Especially as that would let us complete paranoia reducing projects substantially faster; we can handle the hit. Heck, with both in play, we may well make good on that as early as Q2 or Q3, compounding bonuses are like that.

 

[grimely]

[] Plan Lion-Tamer
-[] 50% of the Dominion Budget
-[] Build the Broken Mesa Xenobiology Institute
-[] Complete a Dominion-Wide Census
-[] Military Surplus
-[] Guard Intervention
-[] Additional Security
-[] Accept the deal

This puts us at 50 Paranoia, high but not too high, and frankly in an excellent position for next turn. We'll have to take some Paranoia reducing stuff, but even with the plans we've got pending from last turn we'll be staying at 50 before any additional work like Broken Mesa which is itself a -10.

 

[The Laurent]

Fifty paranoia is absolutely, comically too high, because we're going to be about to do new stuff to piss him off pretty regularly at this point. I absolutely think we can afford 10 Paranoia, I doubt we can afford 20, and I KNOW we can't afford 30.

(Also we're not at 20 Paranoia, we're at 25. So it'd be raising our Paranoia to 55.)

 

[Mechasaurian]

@Etranger

Do the Starcraft 1 PCs exist in this quest? The Marshal, the Executor, the Cerebrate?

 

[Kelenas]

I'd really prefer to see military surplus in addition to the security, that 100 point progress discount would save us quite a lot of dice and resources to use elsewhere. The extra paranoia can be easily handled by using some of those dice and resources for other projects which reduce paranoia.

Click to shrink...

Keep in mind that Military Surplus only affects *Planetary Reconstruction* projects, not all projects with the [Reconstruction] tag.

Right now, that's these two:

Spoiler

[] Nephor II: Planetary Reconstruction (Phase 1) [Reconstruction]
The industrial world of Nephor II was hit hard by the Great War; while the Zerg presence was minimal, the fighting between the Sons and the Confederates was fierce, especially once the factory workers started taking sides. Many of the world's valuable manufactories are in ruins, its hab-blocks burnt out and abandoned, and productivity is at an all-time low. This is not a workable state of affairs; the Dominion needs those factories, and to restart them it needs housing for their workers.
(Progress 0/600, -10R per die)

[] Tyrador IX: Planetary Reconstruction (Phase 1) [Reconstruction]
The resort world of Tyrador IX received a massive influx of refugees during the Great War, all of them fleeing Zerg, Protoss, and warring factions alike. Most of them have been housed in temporary disaster shelters and other pop-up habitats on Tyrador's sparsely populated second continent, where they've suffered from bad weather, inadequate provisions, and general lawlessness. The first step to fixing the problem is building permanent towns where temporary camps now stand, in order to provide stability and comfort.
(Progress 0/500, -10R per die)

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We'll probably also see a Planetary Reconstruction project for Brontes once the Orbital Cleanup (and Duke's groundside campaign) are done, but overall Military Surplus is only somewhat more useful than Guard Intervention.

 

[Etranger]

@Etranger

Do the Starcraft 1 PCs exist in this quest? The Marshal, the Executor, the Cerebrate?

Click to shrink...

Not really.

 

[Mechasaurian]

Not really.

Click to shrink...

Shame.

 

[The Laurent]

We're currently at 25 Paranoia, and if we complete all three Paranoia-related actions we still have left that are close to completion... that's a net +5. Therefore we should only choose Paranoia-increasing things if they're actually worth it.

Additional Security gives us a wide-ranging cost reduction that will last forever, or at least as long as we still have Reconstruction activities.

Guard Intervention gives us the equivalent of 3-4 dice of progress in two categories. It's not even remotely worth it.

Military Surplus reduces a certain category (planetary reconstruction) actions by 100 for each phase, and so MIGHT be worth it, though even then getting to 45 Paranoia doesn't sound like a great idea, because in the short term we have a bunch of irons on the fire and a lot of them will involve increasing Paranoia.

If we want to do Supply Bunkers, and it'll save a lot of lives, that's a net +10 Paranoia over its lifetime.

Obviously we do Augustgrad, which is a net -10 when completed.

We wanna complete at least Phase 1 of the Vehicle Factory, that's another +5 Paranoia.

We really should do Regreening and Subsidiary Hydroponics, they're good things that help people, and so that's +5 Paranoia each.

We really should do or get close to doing Mass Literacy, UNN, and finish Dominion Health, so that's a net of +15 paranoia.

Obviously we're going to do the Jarhead Academy and Military Recruitment, that's -10 Paranoia, and maybe we have time to complete Refloating the fleet this year, that'd be -10 Paranoia.

In Research, the Broken Mesa is -10 Paranoia, but we'd be foolish not to complete the University this year, which is +5 Paranoia.

Idealistic T&R is going to be +5 Paranoia.

So in the next year, we're likely to have a gain, albeit comparatively small, of Paranoia *before* the Paranoia-increasing Personal actions and the Paranoia-Increasing, "Random bullshit Mengsk does to fuck us over."

So we MIGHT be able to afford to take 20 Paranoia, but I think 30 is basically pushing us into a corner for no good reason, and so if we take 20 Paranoia as opposed to 10, it needs to be for a good reason.

(We also need to consider that we're rapidly picking the low-hanging fruit for Paranoia reduction.)

 

[grimely]

I called the plan lion tamer for a reason. Considering that the action which would've automatically given us Paranoia auto-turned off at 80, I think we're fine? We can also promise more and ask for less next year. Guard Intervention also pays for itself very rapidly by reducing Brontes to a manageable level and Refloating to 200, which will itself probably be reduced in turn by its completion. Since Refloating gives us -10 Paranoia, I was considering it effectively net neutral.

Edit: also the turn 2 results post says 20 paranoia???

 

[Chimeraguard]

I'm skeptical about the value of Korhal Regreening. Korhal is a nuclear wasteland right now, and one of Mengsk's Things with the planet is how he gives 0 shits about nuking it again if any enemies get planetside, which probably undoes most of our work in fixing the environment there.

 

[The Laurent]

I'm skeptical about the value of Korhal Regreening. Korhal is a nuclear wasteland right now, and one of Mengsk's Things with the planet is how he gives 0 shits about nuking it again if any enemies get planetside, which probably undoes most of our work in fixing the environment there.

Click to shrink...

Korhal Regreening adds topsoil and makes the planet at least moderately more worth living on. It's a good thing that helps people, hence why Mengsk gets paranoid about it.

It's absolutely worth it, because it's not that expensive even remotely and it makes everything better. Our goal is to in fact see a world BEYOND Mengsk. That includes planting trees that we ourselves will not be able to shade under.

 

[brokenTower]

[] Complete a Dominion-Wide Census
Director Starke, while he's in the process of taking your money, quietly suggests that it would be in the best interests of good government to have a comprehensive picture of the Dominion's population. He'd be interested in seeing the results of the census. You happen to agree, but are slightly disconcerted by where this is coming from.
(Gain 1 Leverage; must complete Conduct a Dominion-Wide Census by the end of Q4 2507)

Click to shrink...

Giving Starke the Census results will likely empower the secret police.

 

[Etranger]

Giving Starke the Census results will likely empower the secret police.

Click to shrink...

He's going to get them anyway. They're government statistics. He's just asking you to expedite doing the thing you're going to do anyway.

 

[Resonant]

We're currently at 25 Paranoia, and if we complete all three Paranoia-related actions we still have left that are close to completion... that's a net +5. Therefore we should only choose Paranoia-increasing things if they're actually worth it. Additional Security gives us a wide-ranging cost reduction that will last forever, or at least as long as we still have Reconstruction activities. Guard Intervention gives us the equivalent of 3-4 dice of progress in two categories. It's not even remotely worth it. Military Surplus reduces a certain category (planetary reconstruction) actions by 100 for each phase, and so MIGHT be worth it, though even then getting to 45 Paranoia doesn't sound like a great idea, because in the short term we have a bunch of irons on the fire and a lot of them will involve increasing Paranoia. If we want to do Supply Bunkers, and it'll save a lot of lives, that's a net +10 Paranoia over its lifetime. Obviously we do Augustgrad, which is a net -10 when completed. We wanna complete at least Phase 1 of the Vehicle Factory, that's another +5 Paranoia. We really should do Regreening and Subsidiary Hydroponics, they're good things that help people, and so that's +5 Paranoia each. We really should do or get close to doing Mass Literacy, UNN, and finish Dominion Health, so that's a net of +15 paranoia. Obviously we're going to do the Jarhead Academy and Military Recruitment, that's -10 Paranoia, and maybe we have time to complete Refloating the fleet this year, that'd be -10 Paranoia. In Research, the Broken Mesa is -10 Paranoia, but we'd be foolish not to complete the University this year, which is +5 Paranoia. Idealistic T&R is going to be +5 Paranoia. So in the next year, we're likely to have a gain, albeit comparatively small, of Paranoia *before* the Paranoia-increasing Personal actions and the Paranoia-Increasing, "Random bullshit Mengsk does to fuck us over." So we MIGHT be able to afford to take 20 Paranoia, but I think 30 is basically pushing us into a corner for no good reason, and so if we take 20 Paranoia as opposed to 10, it needs to be for a good reason. (We also need to consider that we're rapidly picking the low-hanging fruit for Paranoia reduction.)

Click to shrink...

Etran confirmed that we're sitting at 20 Paranoia, how'd you get 25? Victoria's +5 was already accounted for. A rough summary of projected Paranoia gains:

+5 from T&I
+5 from Health Service
+5 from SCVs
+5 from Advisors
+5 from University
+5 from UNN
+10 from Supply Bunkers
+5 from Regreening
+10 from Mass Literacy

-5 from Military Recruitment
-10 from Black Mesa
-10 from Augustgrad
-5 from Marine Camp
-10 from Refloating Brontes

Net total: +15 Paranoia (Going up to 40+15 is still reasonable imo.)