- Location
- Northish
Time for the Nintendo-Soviet game company team up no one saw coming. In time Comrade Mario will defeat the reactionary monarchists and liberate the Toad proletariat in the homes of children the world over.
-
Going forward, links to content from Twitter (now X) will no longer be embedded. Pre-existing links should not be affected.
Attempting to Fulfill the Plan MNKh Edition
- Thread starter Blackstar
- Start date
- Alt. History Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- Europe
It is true that we are reaching the years of the first consoles that aren't just pong machines or similar. I totally forgot that
On a similar topic, I wonder how arcades would develop in this Soviet Union.
The idea of having to pay to continue to play after some fail condition, and consequently making arcade games artificially difficult to make the player fail and pay more, may not be seen that favourably by the politicians, even if that wasn't a problem in OTL (though the reason for that could just be the lack of original software and the different socio-political situation).
On a similar topic, I wonder how arcades would develop in this Soviet Union.
The idea of having to pay to continue to play after some fail condition, and consequently making arcade games artificially difficult to make the player fail and pay more, may not be seen that favourably by the politicians, even if that wasn't a problem in OTL (though the reason for that could just be the lack of original software and the different socio-political situation).
I imagine a lot of games will be imported from America things like Pac-Man and so on since I don't know any Soviet Era games besides Tetris and I am not sure if the setting up of game coops will be a priority for some time.
- Location
- Europe
A really short, and possibly flawed, reading of the situation make it seems like most of the used software in arcades OTL were just modded versions of Western or Japanese arcade games.
Last edited:
A lot of the Soviets universities usually got PC games somewhat fast from the copys getting past from person to person likely from exchange students or other ways.
here is a vid about it and other stuff.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4SR00J6qAo&t=1476s
here is a vid about it and other stuff.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4SR00J6qAo&t=1476s
Last edited:
In a fully mature technology you'd probably be some what right. But considering they aren't probably even using super critical steam yet, one could argue there might be some low hanging fruits one could more quickly pluck still. Another in this area I suspect is scaling, and while as you said the scaling caused some issues, they were eventually over come. And considering just how fast we are planning to build reactors, there's certainly plenty of resources to get to an earlier scaled up more efficient plant.
So it's possible I think we could develop a new reactor that is more efficient, that has a scaling advantage. And has simplified the complex piping early reactor designs suffered under, while incorporating all the safety lessons learnt over the original large VVER run we'll be building out.
Such a development would be a pretty significant improvement which I think one could argue could be worth an early transition. Though of course it depends on if it happens as well as what ever else happens in the field.
Well yeah, part of the reason I though it better to leave it to a later more developed Soviet Union, if one wanted to try it at all. Scaling up nuclear further is especially in the immediate future probably the more economic approach in this case really.
And the extra large megadams probably will probably take extra long to build as well. So depending on how it is ruled you might not see power from some of them for 10 or maybe even 15 years down the line. Which would be a quite long lead time.
plotvitalnpc
Once more walking the path of the catgirl.
A good way to summarize supercritical water reactors is that they're the final evolution for both pressurized water reactors and boiling water reactors - light water reactors as a whole category. The pressure is even higher than a PWR, as is the temperature, leading to better efficiency and power density, but as a result of using supercritical water - water that homogeneously became something similar to steam due to its temperature increases without boiling - as the coolant and working fluid, the actual mechanisms of the reactor are simpler than even the boiling water reactor, which is already far simpler than a PWR. There's no void coefficient or anything else relating to void formation, either, because preventing boiling entirely means no voids ever form in the water. SCWRs are also less dependent on their moderator than normal thermal reactors - they have a faster neutron spectrum - meaning they will have a much higher breeding ratio and produce less high-level waste - the VVER-1700 is expected to breed 95% of the fissile material it consumes, as an example.
In the domain of water cooled and water moderated reactors, all attempts to make technological improvements are eventually destined to converge on supercritical water - that's why SCWRs are the only gen 4 candidate that uses water in the design, with all other candidates using either inert gas or molten metal/salt coolants. It's also why it's considered the cheapest and easiest target in the generation. The big engineering challenge that means they're still an in-development technology is the fact that supercritical fossil fuel plants don't need to worry about neutron enbrittlement in the fuel cladding or pressure vessel, but aside from that all of the technology involved is 100% proven and well-established.
In the domain of water cooled and water moderated reactors, all attempts to make technological improvements are eventually destined to converge on supercritical water - that's why SCWRs are the only gen 4 candidate that uses water in the design, with all other candidates using either inert gas or molten metal/salt coolants. It's also why it's considered the cheapest and easiest target in the generation. The big engineering challenge that means they're still an in-development technology is the fact that supercritical fossil fuel plants don't need to worry about neutron enbrittlement in the fuel cladding or pressure vessel, but aside from that all of the technology involved is 100% proven and well-established.
Last edited:
plotvitalnpc
Once more walking the path of the catgirl.
In the long term, everybody gets a reactor in this USSR, and all without having to resort to an existentially terrifying reactor design like using blocks of graphite as the neutron moderator and light water coolant as a neutron absorber, ensuring an extremely positive void coefficient (when the reactor overheats, it overheats more) because the moderator that makes it go brr cannot boil but the neutron absorber that controls how much it goes brr can.
(Das da chernobyl, in case anyone got this deep into MNKH without knowing how derp the RBMK was)
The much bigger long term problem is figuring out where to put the reactors in like, four decades, both because while nuclear power is an incredible source of baseload generation for the portion of demand that exists at all hours, in all months, but without some more complicated fuckery it's terrible for addressing fluctuating demand and because energy consumption will eventually start to flatten out.
(Das da chernobyl, in case anyone got this deep into MNKH without knowing how derp the RBMK was)
The much bigger long term problem is figuring out where to put the reactors in like, four decades, both because while nuclear power is an incredible source of baseload generation for the portion of demand that exists at all hours, in all months, but without some more complicated fuckery it's terrible for addressing fluctuating demand and because energy consumption will eventually start to flatten out.
- Location
- The great frozen north
Lot's of cool discussion! If the problem of Neutron Embrittlement on supercritical pressurized water reactors is solved, is the technique likely to be similar enough to easily retrofit Atomash to make them or would the construction techniques require a whole new facility?
As for dams, aside from the Ob cascade future megadams will be too remote to provide grid power directly, but they will give "virtual power" in savings from not having to hook intensive metallurgical systems into the normal grid. In particular Aluminum, the current dams are barely keeping up, with a demand that will likely only grow faster next turn on an LI focus. And technically we could not build the dams and facetank the industrial slow-down from non-ferrous prices climbing above 60, but given now pissy the SupSov could get (especially if the West gets their price below 40 around the same time which they are somehow on track to do, seriously how I don't get it), I'd only do that strategy if there's multiple severe emergencies coming. Which is why I REALLY want to start the Upper Lena Cascade soon! Unless there are some big yet-untapped deposites of high-quality bauxite akin to Severouralsk and Tikhvin in Siberia we could develop instead?
Hopefully by the nineties reduction in consumer growth and/or the politician's paralyzing fear of Numbers Go Down will mean we don't have to build the Lower Lena megadam. One hydrological monument to man's hubris is enough. Maybe Lower Yenisei will be more reasonable? We'll see what it gives. I expect we won't even get an option for the Lower Ob dam, it would flood our gas fields for fairly low power output.
The Yenisei steel mills yield -10 steel each, ~12 more from Secondary Metallurgical, ~42 total. Passive growth will eat 30 at current rate. So unless our construction industry sees a massive slowdown and/or we build zero new manufacturing ourselves after 1980, our existing build cue is about right for reaching 1990. Yup, math checks out!
As for dams, aside from the Ob cascade future megadams will be too remote to provide grid power directly, but they will give "virtual power" in savings from not having to hook intensive metallurgical systems into the normal grid. In particular Aluminum, the current dams are barely keeping up, with a demand that will likely only grow faster next turn on an LI focus. And technically we could not build the dams and facetank the industrial slow-down from non-ferrous prices climbing above 60, but given now pissy the SupSov could get (especially if the West gets their price below 40 around the same time which they are somehow on track to do, seriously how I don't get it), I'd only do that strategy if there's multiple severe emergencies coming. Which is why I REALLY want to start the Upper Lena Cascade soon! Unless there are some big yet-untapped deposites of high-quality bauxite akin to Severouralsk and Tikhvin in Siberia we could develop instead?
Hopefully by the nineties reduction in consumer growth and/or the politician's paralyzing fear of Numbers Go Down will mean we don't have to build the Lower Lena megadam. One hydrological monument to man's hubris is enough. Maybe Lower Yenisei will be more reasonable? We'll see what it gives. I expect we won't even get an option for the Lower Ob dam, it would flood our gas fields for fairly low power output.
0w0 is the update almost ready? Speaking of Discord previews, any word on Atomash's impact on the current Nuclear Systems we've built this plan? It initially had the "modified by Atomash, if built" tag, but the tag's not in the Plan Effects as of current turn. Currently we're expecting 64 power/turn from it.
Thanks for the napkin math! Surprised the coal mines drive up the "true" cost of coal power that much. They certainly eat dice, we're about 2 dice on coal mines a turn for 3 dice on autocoal, but said mines are well below 200 RpD to the almost 290 of the autodice.
Napkin math, the trade decoupling will drop us 30 steel price over the 10th plan. We've been running a solid average of +3/turn from Construction Industry and Net Civilian Spending combined, for 15 total over a plan. Small chance another infra focus drives it to +4, but I don't expect it since we're hoping to drop enterprise GNP to 10% as part of cooling the economy. +5 from each of Vladivostok Shipyards (which we definitely want with trade shifting to the pacific) and Volga cars. So only 5 of the decoupling impact left. Air conditioning will eat up one or two more of that, so yeah even if no other intensive HI manufacturing comes up in the 10th plan we're good.
The Yenisei steel mills yield -10 steel each, ~12 more from Secondary Metallurgical, ~42 total. Passive growth will eat 30 at current rate. So unless our construction industry sees a massive slowdown and/or we build zero new manufacturing ourselves after 1980, our existing build cue is about right for reaching 1990. Yup, math checks out!
We cannot avoid running an Infrastructure focus next plan. Between Mikoyankas reaching EOL, River Reversal being forced on us, continuous need to modernize/expand cargo and passenger rail, and stuff to catch up on like sewage and local roads, there is MUCH to be done. So either infra/LI or infra/Services. I favor infra/LI. We have more base dice in Services anyway and we'd mostly be expanding established systems. Light Industry will be developing a very novel consumer electronics industry so it a focus there will help us reach the cutting edge. Though we'll see in the starting turn of the plan what is gated by which option.
plotvitalnpc
Once more walking the path of the catgirl.
I mean, it'd pretty much be a sturdier VVER design with fewer, simpler secondary components. Atommash would need to increase the pressure and heat tolerances of the vessels and integrate the neutron resistance stuff, but in the end integrating a supercritical steam cycle into a factory for pressurized water reactors is an evolutionary rather than revolutionary shift in its operations and equipment, hence why OTL Russia is developing a SCWR variant of the VVER in the first place rather than starting a totally new design.
Switching from BWRs to SCWRs is much harder, because the whole point of BWRs is not to need a strong pressure vessel.
Last edited:
- Location
- UTC+0
- Pronouns
- He/Him/They
It won't have any, we built it too late for it to have an impact. iirc, it would have effectively given us ~15 more power a turn.
Not doing a Services plan is going to put us in real trouble when the oil crisis hits, and it very likely will in the next plan. Blackstar mentioned in the Discord that our neglect of the sector (we mostly invested in things like childcare, which while nice, isn't sustainably employing people) will bite us back hard. We've put a whole lot of people in sectors that will downsize come the oil crisis (mainly the automotive one).
As for infrastructure, while there is important stuff there, keep in mind that well, we have 11 base dice there, another two stolen from agriculture if we do dams (our choice of deputy in agri means we get to assign to agri dice to hydro projects), so effectively 13. Not to mention the 6 free dice we have, which we've pretty consistently invested a lot of in it. We've accomplished a lot this plan with no focus, we did 3 stages of airports, ESA, finished water distribution systems which unlocked the new project, integrated commuter rail with subways, expanded Western HSR, connected the Far East, Akademset, LNG pipelines and more. With a little discipline I think we can do all of those things, and choose to focus on the most pressing sector (Services) and the one that really stands to gain from our previous investments this plan (LI).
- Location
- The great frozen north
Thanks. We'd be hard-pressed to build Atomash any faster than we did and 15 more power wouldn't change much, so no loss.
Ahh the Discord lore... well given we should have been able to intuit that ourselves, I cannot get angry this time.
Suppose we do the bare minimum: 7 dice on housing, 1 on HSR (because letting our skill fade there again would be an own goal), and use the 2 agri dice for Ob. Down to three Infra dice already. And that leaves us running on the edge with non-ferrous metal, and it leaves massive tracts of our cargo rail network un-electrified. As the oil crisis is coming. I'm not confident. Maybe we can keep housing at 5 dice[1] in return for rail and hope the population doesn't notice the barrack-style percentage did not decrease that plan. Plus, we were counting on the construction industry expansion to counter the steel collapse.
Of dice, remember we have 10 Service dice also. Hopefully, education and healthcare won't eat all of them again. But you have a point. The ultimate decider of my stance will be what things are locked behind a service focus in the set-up vote for the next plan. If critical profitable stuff is gated, I'll grit my teeth with another non-infra plan.
[1]Might be 5 autodice, might be 3 autodice and average 2 manuals on Mikoyankas a turn. Any idea what stage/if at all autodice will incorporate that action? We never did take the housing reform bureaucratic option, IDK what the impact of that will/would have been.
We did finish one stage of it.
obssesednuker
Commander of 10 Million Men
- Location
- In the Kremlin, activating Perimtr.
Soviet console about to hit the market, gamer!
Neat! The dude who made Tetrist might actually get their due this time around.
- Location
- The great frozen north
Oh, where was it hinted that China is supplying Algeria? If the PRC is willing to send aid to places where CMEA proper has pinkie promised to leave alone, then having her as a tsundere not-ally is actually quite useful.
Coming soon to the Light Industry department in 1978:
Soviet console about to hit the market, gamer!
[]Electronic Entertainment System Production: The demand for electronic gaming systems has rapidly climbed beyond that which can be efficiently fulfilled by the private sector. Several state-run factories producing standardized television-compatible "consoles" must be established to ensure the Union does not fall behind the Americans in the modernization of human leisure (200 Resources per Dice 0/150) (-20 CI3 Electricity +1 General Labor +1 Educated Labor) (High Profitability)
- Location
- Lost in the internet
I mean, their is ''freedom to make game'' and ''freedom to make a game, although some terms and conditions may apply''
aka, non-political/non-''subversive'' games are fine but any thing pushing some boundaries are going to get cancelled
That has never worked out good for the quality of a game.
- Pronouns
- Viewer
I mean the USSR itl has been a lot more lax on censorship, an example being when we allowed music other than classical to be released plus the ministry of culture now having to find content they consider illegal instead of it being sent to them before being released. As long as the games don't make the references blatant I think it will have a good chance of it being fine.
edit:
Or you can just say the criticism is against the US, which I imagine would be land very well with the censorship people
edit:
Or you can just say the criticism is against the US, which I imagine would be land very well with the censorship people
Last edited:
- Location
- Europe
The game studios will be made mostly of people that could partecipate in political decisions and vote.
- Location
- Lost in the internet
Does it, tho ?
Just look at Tetris, Mario and Pokemon, all beloved and successful types of games that I cant see our ITTL USSR being against
Has and supports a monarchy so it is against the revolution, and even goes a step further with a worker saving said monarchy instead of overthrowing it.