Both passages are at high latitudes and prone to stormy weather, and Earth's climate hasn't become gentler with the rise of tiberium. Sustaining a "wolfpack" implies either large ships, small ships, or submarines. Nod doesn't really do large ships, small ships can't operate sustainably around those areas for very long, and as for submarines, we don't have a lot of evidence for Nod attack submarines.

I'd think it should be relatively simple for them to create something similar to PT boats: cheap and fast to build, easy to move around, hard to spot and can easily be based in temporary accommodations for the duration of a given mission and to bail should the weather go to shit. They don't need to be there full time, they just need to be there for the times the sea passages can be used.

Governors and other cap ships are multi-turn affairs to build, wolfpacks of cheap PT Boats to knock them out or even damaging them enough to send them back for repairs is a cost effective option to prevent the deployment of those ships to their AOs.

I'm actually surprised there isn't a Panama Planned City proposed to secure the transfer of goods and helping logistics. Suez is in a RZ, so I think it's a lost cause.

No see.

The key point here is that the shipyards aren't tools for securing inter-continental sea traffic, because the ships can and do go anywhere in much less time than it takes them to be built. Think of the situation during the World Wars. The areas in which the ships were fighting were not the areas in which the ships were built. You don't want your ships fighting out of the same naval base in which they were built if you can help it, because it means the precious construction yards and the partially built ships inside are far too close to the war zone.

If you're worried about Nod contesting control of, say, South Africa and the naval passage between the Atlantic and Indian Oceans, you don't respond to that by building big navy cruisers IN Durban. You build them somewhere else and let them steam south to Durban in big squadrons once there are enough of them ready.

The last time I can think of that someone tried to defend their control of a port city with a warship constructed in that same port city was when the Confederates tried it with the Merrimac, and that didn't work out too hot for them. :p

The rules are a little different for the hydrofoils, which are shorter-ranged and not really great for long ocean voyages even though I'm sure they can manage. But our big ol' cruisers and the older capital ship classes? Almost certainly nuclear powered and more than big enough to do well on the trip. They're much less location-dependent.

That would work only with logistics and sea lanes that aren't under threat worldwide.

The paradigm of being able to move around warships worldwide relies on sea supremacy and secured sea lanes, things that aren't a given now.

As you said, Tib made the weather shittier, much shittier. If the weather is worse, that means that sea travel is magnitudes more dangerous than it is IRL and sea logistics as well as ship deployments are dependent on the weather not fucking shit up. The greatest threat to warships in transit isn't enemy action, it's the fucking weather. IRL, weather stations and weather satellites help in preventing the losses of entire fleets but I doubt they are viable in a Tib world or prevent roaming cat 4-5s from cutting an ocean in two. You can't rely on having good enough weather all the time to move around your forces here and that will impact ship deployments. If ZOCOM needs armors ASAP but the land and sea roads are interdicted by bad weather, you can just load them on a Leopard and send them through LEO to their destination. You can't do that with cap ships.

And if Nod isn't made of complete idiots, they will try their best to make sea travel in clear weather as unsafe as possible.

A World Navy and an Empire Where the Sun Never Sets is a pre-Tib thing if weather has gotten worse and unpredictable thanks to the death rock. The reality is that with worse weather and one that is worsening every day, the GDI navy has likely to live with the fact that entire AOs are beyond its reach for entire months, having sea assets under possible constant harassment from Nod while they are cut off from the rest of the world and that reinforcements or transferred ships will arrive to their destinations damaged, either from shitty weather or Nod attacks. That means that the model of having just logistics points around the world is insufficient. Every strategic AOs risks being cut off, which means, no logistics and no repairs.

Shipyards aren't just to build ships, they offer local full repair capability as well as independent production of components and munitions to sustain elements of a navy cut off from the rest of the world for months.

I wouldn't be as optimistic as you in thinking that just because our surface cap ships are nuclear they can just be moved around at an admiral say so given the global situation.
 
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Sadly the oceans are a lot emptier in the quest due tiberium killing a lot of sealife and the end of recreational ships so detecting subs is easier as there are far fewer other signals that could be a sub but are not.
 
Reply function seems to not want to work properly for me so. @Cathon Grimeye that still doesn't change the fact that our cruisers can base anywhere they want unlike the hydrofoils. You can build a cruiser in Japan and have it patrol the Med quite happily since, as @Simon_Jester correctly pointed out, they're nuclear ships. To note: the QM said in Discord a while back that they were nuclear powered, not sure if he's changed that or not.
The oil industry's effectively dead for half a dozen reasons, so there aren't really any other viable power sources. And these cruisers are big enough for nuclear propulsion to be viable, plus GDI spams compact nuclear reactors for its military needs anyway so it's not like they don't have the expertise.

Also, Jester. The biggest danger with a submarine is that you don't have a lot of evidence it's there. Like, as much as I'm a proud Brit and happy to say our carrier group genuinely caught out the Russian sub that shadowed them in the Med there's every chance it let itself get caught as a warning or got caught due to a stray loud noise from within. An Australian sub also caught out a US destroyer on exercise by sneaking right under them, the US crew got a fright when sonar reported the bars of "Land down under" coming from roght below them.
The thing is, I'm not talking about how easily an individual submarine can avoid detection. I'm talking about the existence of the whole program. To operate a fleet of attack submarines you need shipyards capable of building the submarines, and bases capable of housing and supplying them. And those bases must be coastal in fixed locations vulnerable to, say, orbital ion cannon strikes.

Nod could well have some submarines, and operate them in secret with us none the wiser. But they couldn't operate (on a sustained basis) a whole navy including large numbers of submarines capable of blockading bodies of water hundreds of miles across without the effects of that showing up somewhere.

...

Also, that Australian sub crew is awesome. Not gonna deny it.

I'd think it should be relatively simple for them to create something similar to PT boats: cheap and fast to build, easy to move around, hard to spot and can easily be based in temporary accommodations for the duration of a given mission and to bail should the weather go to shit. They don't need to be there full time, they just need to be there for the times the sea passages can be used.
That's not how this works. PT boats can't just duck back into port whenever the weather turns bad, they have to reach the port before the weather turns bad, which is difficult if you're operating along a coastline with few or no ports, or ports under enemy control. The PT boats can't just magically teleport across thousands of miles of ocean to return to safety.

Furthermore, "the times the sea passages can be used" is all the time, especially for larger ships that can just plow through a storm that would sink a smaller boat. There's a reason that the rise of absurdly large container ships has made sea travel much more reliable than back when everyone was operating ships of only one to two thousand tons, tops.

In rough weather, the PT boats would be unsafe and often incapable of catching up to their targets (yes, smaller is not always faster at sea), even though that same rough weather was not much of an impairment to the heavy GDI shipping. There's a reason that even though in real life almost every World War era navy had torpedo boats and something equivalent to PT boats, they usually didn't do much that had decisive impact. You can't use them as a substitute for all forms of naval force.

...

[Among other things, Nod PT boat swarms would be very vulnerable to enemy land-based aviation. I know GDI's military usually isn't recognizable as using real life 20th century military technology very often, but something very basic and practical like P-3 Orions carrying light antiship missiles would inflict ruinous losses on such small craft if they were operating in open waters far from shore trying to interdict freighters rounding the Cape of Good Hope... at least unless the weather was so bad the PT boats couldn't operate anyway.]

Governors and other cap ships are multi-turn affairs to build, wolfpacks of cheap PT Boats to knock them out or even damaging them enough to send them back for repairs is a cost effective option to prevent the deployment of those ships to their AOs.
Historical experience shows that this doesn't work out that well for the PT boats. They get chewed up and take a lot of casualties, they often fail to do meaningful damage to the larger ships they are targeting, and under many sea conditions (bad weather) and many parts of the sea (out of striking range of their actual bases) they can't operate at all.

Missile boats and so on do form a naval threat, but they don't revolutionize naval affairs quite that much or in quite that way.

I'm actually surprised there isn't a Panama Planned City proposed to secure the transfer of goods and helping logistics. Suez is in a RZ, so I think it's a lost cause.
It might be possible to excavate the sea-level ditch that is Suez, but yeah, rough.

On the other hand, the Panama Canal doesn't need so much a planned city as a major reconstruction, probably- it's likely that tiberium has choked parts of the canal and locks. It's not a good place for a 'city' so much as a big infrastructure operation.

That would work only with logistics and sea lanes that aren't under threat worldwide.

The paradigm of being able to move around warships worldwide relies on sea supremacy and secured sea lanes, things that aren't a given now.
Yes and no. As noted below, larger ships can move more freely than small ones, and stopping ships from moving requires having enough firepower in the area to sink them. Nod doesn't really operate that kind of fleet.

And frankly, if you were right than GDI's game mechanics in this quest wouldn't even work at all, because we wouldn't be able to ship stuff across the oceans. If Nod and the weather are so bad that heavily armed nuclear powered warships can't traverse from one ocean to another as part of planned military operations, the idea of freighters being able to do so is a pathetic joke. And yet our freighters do do so.

As you said, Tib made the weather shittier, much shittier. If the weather is worse, that means that sea travel is magnitudes more dangerous than it is IRL and sea logistics as well as ship deployments are dependent on the weather not fucking shit up. The greatest threat to warships in transit isn't enemy action, it's the fucking weather. IRL, weather stations and weather satellites help in preventing the losses of entire fleets but I doubt they are viable in a Tib world or prevent roaming cat 4-5s from cutting an ocean in two.
Big ships can weather giant storms surprisingly well, especially if they're actively designed to survive oceans with shitty weather (e.g. lots of righting moment, good watertightness to deal with rogue waves).

It's small boats and ships that tend to insta-die when caught in a storm.

See as an example "Halsey's Typhoon." Admiral William Halsey ordered the large US fleet under his command to ride out a typhoon while in open waters. He was commanding the operation from a battleship, the battleship was fine. None of the capital ships sank or was seriously damaged. But multiple torpedo boats, minelayers, and other small vessels were seriously damaged and in some cases sunk.
 
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I am confused by the numbers of plans and their vsriants.

I would like to vote for a plan that includes Red Zone Containment lines, cooperatives, Mecca rescue and at least two dice for the unfinished MARV hub. Can't find one.

I am doing this from phone. It is not easy to read the site from a phone and look for differences in the plans. Sorry.
 
[X] Plan Mitigation, Income, Enterprise

[X] Plan Superconductors and containment lines

[X] Plan: DEPLOY (with both Power and Mecca)

[X] Plan How to Plan Better
 
I would like to vote for a plan that includes Red Zone Containment lines, cooperatives, Mecca rescue and at least two dice for the unfinished MARV hub. Can't find one.
Assuming you mean dice for the unfinished MARV fleet, instead of hub, there are these two:
[] Plan Mitigation, Income, Enterprise
[] Plan: DEPLOY (with both Power and Mecca)
 
That's not how this works. PT boats can't just duck back into port whenever the weather turns bad, they have to reach the port before the weather turns bad, which is difficult if you're operating along a coastline with few or no ports, or ports under enemy control. The PT boats can't just magically teleport across thousands of miles of ocean to return to safety.

Furthermore, "the times the sea passages can be used" is all the time, especially for larger ships that can just plow through a storm that would sink a smaller boat. There's a reason that the rise of absurdly large container ships has made sea travel much more reliable than back when everyone was operating ships of only one to two thousand tons, tops.

In rough weather, the PT boats would be unsafe and often incapable of catching up to their targets (yes, smaller is not always faster at sea), even though that same rough weather was not much of an impairment to the heavy GDI shipping. There's a reason that even though in real life almost every World War era navy had torpedo boats and something equivalent to PT boats, they usually didn't do much that had decisive impact. You can't use them as a substitute for all forms of naval force.

...

[Among other things, Nod PT boat swarms would be very vulnerable to enemy land-based aviation. I know GDI's military usually isn't recognizable as using real life 20th century military technology very often, but something very basic and practical like P-3 Orions carrying light antiship missiles would inflict ruinous losses on such small craft if they were operating in open waters far from shore trying to interdict freighters rounding the Cape of Good Hope... at least unless the weather was so bad the PT boats couldn't operate anyway.]

Historical experience shows that this doesn't work out that well for the PT boats. They get chewed up and take a lot of casualties, they often fail to do meaningful damage to the larger ships they are targeting, and under many sea conditions (bad weather) and many parts of the sea (out of striking range of their actual bases) they can't operate at all.

Missile boats and so on do form a naval threat, but they don't revolutionize naval affairs quite that much or in quite that way.

Nod excels at guerilla and stealth warfare and doesn't really give much of a fuck about their casualties if it hurts GDI and adds to the prestige of the warlord in command. I'm not as optimistic as you in thinking that they can't put forward a cheap platform to contest the transit of cap ships around the world that will inflict disproportionate damage.

It might be possible to excavate the sea-level ditch that is Suez, but yeah, rough.

On the other hand, the Panama Canal doesn't need so much a planned city as a major reconstruction, probably- it's likely that tiberium has choked parts of the canal and locks. It's not a good place for a 'city' so much as a big infrastructure operation.

We'll see if the option pops up later on for Panama. I'm sure that would result in Logistics pluses that we wouldn't say no to. It might even be a follow up on the latest MARV fleet in an attempt to make sure that any transit from North to South America is under the control of GDI and in order to try to strangle Nod on one or both of the continents.

Yes and no. As noted below, larger ships can move more freely than small ones, and stopping ships from moving requires having enough firepower in the area to sink them. Nod doesn't really operate that kind of fleet.

And frankly, if you were right than GDI's game mechanics in this quest wouldn't even work at all, because we wouldn't be able to ship stuff across the oceans. If Nod and the weather are so bad that heavily armed nuclear powered warships can't traverse from one ocean to another as part of planned military operations, the idea of freighters being able to do so is a pathetic joke. And yet our freighters do do so.

Moving goods and moving warships aren't even remotely the same thing.

Let's take a crate in Yokohama that must be delivered to a glacier mine in Italy. A cargo ship takes it, can go to the US West Coast, transfer it to have it go by rail to the US East coast, transfer it on a cargo ship towards England then transfer it on a Carryall towards Italy. And all that time the exposure to possible Nod ambushes is minimum and it travels in areas well-monitored by the GDI for weather problems.

A warship in Yokohama that has to go to Italy has to circumnavigate the landmasses, passing through contested waters and following lanes that are unmonitored by the GDI and/or monitored by Nod. Its transit is much more dangerous and it will need to go to places that civilian shipping can afford to not go to.

Big ships can weather giant storms surprisingly well, especially if they're actively designed to survive oceans with shitty weather (e.g. lots of righting moment, good watertightness to deal with rogue waves).

It's small boats and ships that tend to insta-die when caught in a storm.

See as an example "Halsey's Typhoon." Admiral William Halsey ordered the large US fleet under his command to ride out a typhoon while in open waters. He was commanding the operation from a battleship, the battleship was fine. None of the capital ships sank or was seriously damaged. But multiple torpedo boats, minelayers, and other small vessels were seriously damaged and in some cases sunk.

For cap ships, Cobra damaged Iowa's shaft, punched hard Baltimore and Miami and savaged the CVEs if you consider them cap ships.

If you mention Cobra, it should also come with mentioning Connie, the following year, to follow on Halsey's lunacy. Hornet, Missouri, Massachusetts, Indiana, Alabama, Baltimore and Quincy as well as the shipgirls of the CVEs and CLs present would likely contest the claim that typhoons aren't a real problem to cap ships. Have you seen the damage to Hornet after Connie? That's one fleet carrier out of action and sent back to port.

Those adventures almost cost Halsey his career. If he hadn't been a war hero and lionized, he would have been forcefully retired. The damages suffered from those events were described by Nimitz as consistent with major fleet action.

Big ships don't weather storms well, they are just more survivable in those conditions. Modern big ships don't survive storms only because they are big and there have been advances in making them tougher, they survive storms because efforts have been made to monitor the weather and they, at worst, have to just skirt around the worst of them in their eminently survivable hulls unless they are completely unlucky.

If the weather is generally worse in a tib world and, in addition, unpredictable, what with them ion storms, all navy deployments will have to account for the fact that a transfer of ships to a designated AO will result in the task force suffering damage equivalent to a sea action.

So, let's say you need to contest Nod in an AO. You send a fleet from the other side of the world. Unfortunately, they are caught in a storm in transit. Sea action damage. Then they arrive on station and fight Nod. Battle damage. Then they have to go back to repair. Unfortunately, they meet another storm. Sea action damage. That's a rather pyrrhic way of doing things.

World Navy is a pre-tib thing. It doesn't matter if our ships are big or have the capacity to circumnavigate the world because they are nuclear powered, practically it will likely be needed to base them from a repair and refit hub close to their designated AO in order for them to suffer the least from the weather and limit losses in transit to and from combat zones, whether from the weather or because of ambushes.
 
Sadly the oceans are a lot emptier in the quest due tiberium killing a lot of sealife and the end of recreational ships so detecting subs is easier as there are far fewer other signals that could be a sub but are not.
Problem with that, you've got the thermal layer and the acoustic layer blocking you. Though the acoustic layer is a layer of millions of tiny fish so they may actually be dead now.
 
Nod excels at guerilla and stealth warfare and doesn't really give much of a fuck about their casualties if it hurts GDI and adds to the prestige of the warlord in command. I'm not as optimistic as you in thinking that they can't put forward a cheap platform to contest the transit of cap ships around the world that will inflict disproportionate damage.
There are differing levels of "can't."

Consider the way Nod has habitually operated machine gun buggies and missile armed motorcycle troops for decades. Does it work? Sort of. Is it necessarily cost-effective to use such light vehicles against heavier vehicles? Even with Nod's lack of casualty-aversion, no. They're effective only when used in the right context and against the right opposition.

Missile boats (because that's the realistic threat here) are the same way. They are effective in narrow waters, close to their home ports. They cannot be sent to just any arbitrary location on the world ocean to blockade it. They can be sent into rough seas, but they will be far less effective and far easier prey for enemy air power and warships. Nod warlords aren't afraid to take casualties, but the ones who are in the habit of throwing away troops and ships in attritional battles against GDI at an unfavorable rate of attrition don't tend to last very long. Darwin takes effect.

Remember that all your arguments for why navies cannot be deployed freely apply just as much to Nod as they do to GDI, if not more so.

Nod is not magically immune to bad weather and storms. If ion storms brew up giant rogue waves, those waves will swamp their smaller ships even more easily than it will swamp a large cargo carrier or nuclear-powered battlecruiser. A storm that damages a large GDI ship might annihilate whole squadrons of smaller missile boats, if those missile boats were so unlucky as to be caught at sea. Meanwhile, GDI is the side of the conflict that owns all the weather satellites. It may not be perfectly equipped to predict tiberium weather, but it's at least as well equipped to predict and avoid it as Nod is.

GDI shipping may suffer damage or losses whenever it passes in range of a Nod-held coast, but the reverse is also true. I'm sure any Blue Zone's regional air force commander would be delighted to saddle up the Orcas or Firehawks and blast any Nod missile boats that come into their general range. And RTS rules aside, it's damn hard for a boat that small to defend itself against air attack. Not impossible, but hard.

I am not saying that Nod is incapable of contesting passage on the world ocean, but if they were reliably capable of barring it, then GDI as we know it would not exist. Many of the Blue Zones simply are not in tenable locations if GDI can't get seaborne supply to them. Even granting that tiberium harvesting makes most Blue Zones less economically dependent on global trade networks than is the norm for developed nations in real life, critical military equipment is (as we've seen) often manufactured in only a few Blue Zones around the globe. When Apollo fighters were only being manufactured in a single factory in Valparaiso, Chile, how do you think they were even getting to most hotspots? I don't know what the ferry range on an Apollo is, but I'm pretty sure "shipped over as cargo" was a big part of the answer. But if Nod can easily block naval access around Cape Horn, or across the Pacific, how do the fighters even get out of that Blue Zone? And conversely, if they can't stop a freighter loaded down with GDI's latest air superiority fighter from leaving Chile and reaching Japan or South Africa or Europe, how are they going to have any confidence of stopping a battlecruiser from going from Japan via Chile to South Africa or Europe, or vice versa?

Again, Nod is not incapable of contesting passage on the world ocean. But they can't do it for free, they can't do it effortlessly, and especially if they're relying on small missile boats (that is, using a brown-water navy to perform blue-water mission), then it won't be cheap and often won't be successful.

Moving goods and moving warships aren't even remotely the same thing.

Let's take a crate in Yokohama that must be delivered to a glacier mine in Italy. A cargo ship takes it, can go to the US West Coast, transfer it to have it go by rail to the US East coast, transfer it on a cargo ship towards England then transfer it on a Carryall towards Italy. And all that time the exposure to possible Nod ambushes is minimum and it travels in areas well-monitored by the GDI for weather problems.

A warship in Yokohama that has to go to Italy has to circumnavigate the landmasses, passing through contested waters and following lanes that are unmonitored by the GDI and/or monitored by Nod. Its transit is much more dangerous and it will need to go to places that civilian shipping can afford to not go to.
See above. Looking at the locations of the Blue Zones and allowing for the fact that Suez and Panama are out of commission, most of the main global sealanes that would make holding those Blue Zones tenable cannot be that strongly in Nod hands.

Because there cannot be a coastal Blue Zone that GDI's civilian shipping cannot afford to go to; it wouldn't be supportable. Which means, again looking at the map, that nearly every major part of the oceans must be accessible, because nearly every major part of the oceans is adjacent to a Blue Zone.

About the only exception I can think of is in Southeast Asia, which would be a solid mass of Red and 'Orange' Zones by now, one that could easily shelter Nod forces and would be borderline suicidal for GDI's blue-water fleet and cargo traffic to pass through. That's probably a pretty well sewed-up Nod naval stronghold... and notably, that's the home base of that "pirate queen" warlord (warlady?) we heard about a few updates ago.

But if Nod had good power projection out into blue water in much else of the globe, could really stop GDI naval traffic crossing the deep seas, then for just about any place you could name where they have it, there'd be a dead Blue Zone as a consequence.

...Big ships don't weather storms well, they are just more survivable in those conditions. Modern big ships don't survive storms only because they are big and there have been advances in making them tougher, they survive storms because efforts have been made to monitor the weather and they, at worst, have to just skirt around the worst of them in their eminently survivable hulls unless they are completely unlucky.

If the weather is generally worse in a tib world and, in addition, unpredictable, what with them ion storms, all navy deployments will have to account for the fact that a transfer of ships to a designated AO will result in the task force suffering damage equivalent to a sea action.
By similar logic, any cargo ship moving across a broad ocean (e.g. the Pacific) will experience the same thing.

Either the ships are built to survive more weather than that, the weather doesn't usually hit the ships that hard, or GDI is still able to route its ships around the worst weather.

And, again, these same problems will affect a Nod blockade force just as badly if not worse than they affect a GDI convoy or battlegroup. Probably worse, because Nod's ships will tend to be lighter and less seaworthy.
 
Why not put the shipyard in Durban? If theoretically the ships can go wherever they want once they're worked up and commissioned then it doesn't matter where in the world the shipyard is so you might as well just roll a d5 and choose randomly out of the remaining 5. That means Durban is exactly as good as anywhere else. I think building a shipyard somewhere specific does let us ever so slightly preference areas of the world for cruiser deployment, if only because when they first come off the slip they're going to spend a few quarters tooling around the neighborhood they were built in doing shakedown cruises (but NOD doesn't know that they just see the scary new capital ships sailing around).

We built the first one in Yokohama because it was closest to the pirate queen in the SEA islands, who cares if it makes sense or not it "feels" right. And if all the locations are perfectly fungible.... why does it matter if we do Durban or Hampton Roads or wherever else, the navy will just send the ships wherever they want them. On the off chance that the location DOES matter even the tiniest bit though, I think it should go in Durban to lock down inter-hemisphere shipping, to use it for moving our own warships/heavy superfreighters at least even if NOD has nothing moving down there to interdict. Putting it in Durban has no downsides that I can see, if location doesn't affect regional deployment at all then the worst case is there's zero difference it's exactly the same as anywhere else, and if location does matter then Durban is the best location sitting on a global crossroads.
 
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I edited my plan to put the shipyard in Durban... but since @Absoloot 's post still has the first instance of the plan, the vote tally reads my post as making a separate plan. *shrug*

Shouldn't be that important either way, but given how there's no Suez Canal building a shipyard at South Africa seems much more useful than most locations.
 
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Moving goods and moving warships aren't even remotely the same thing.

Let's take a crate in Yokohama that must be delivered to a glacier mine in Italy. A cargo ship takes it, can go to the US West Coast, transfer it to have it go by rail to the US East coast, transfer it on a cargo ship towards England then transfer it on a Carryall towards Italy. And all that time the exposure to possible Nod ambushes is minimum and it travels in areas well-monitored by the GDI for weather problems.

A warship in Yokohama that has to go to Italy has to circumnavigate the landmasses, passing through contested waters and following lanes that are unmonitored by the GDI and/or monitored by Nod. Its transit is much more dangerous and it will need to go to places that civilian shipping can afford to not go to.

Actually, it's far more likely to be shipped across the Pacific to Chile and from there past Cape Horn and up the Atlantic to either France or directly to Italy, or convoyed south to Australia, to South Africa and from there up the Atlantic and into either France or directly to Italy.

Not transferring by rail through an active Nod combat zone with tons of chances for Nod to ambush is far more preferable than all those ambushes along the northern railway. Which may not be that passable during winter, come to think of it. And yes, the weather and Nod raiding ships and convoys are a risk in and off themselves, Nod's navy is mostly expended and GDI is doing a far better job reconstructing their navy than Nod is. Staying a decent distance from the shore is a defense in and off themselves.

We're going to need to crap out carriers by the score eventually to fully smack down Nod's naval ambitions, but there's a ton a of things we need to do anyway.

Why not put the shipyard in Durban? If theoretically the ships can go wherever they want once they're worked up and commissioned then it doesn't matter where in the world the shipyard is so you might as well just roll a d5 and choose randomly out of the remaining 5. That means Durban is exactly as good as anywhere else. I think building a shipyard somewhere specific does let us ever so slightly preference areas of the world for cruiser deployment, if only because when they first come off the slip they're going to spend a few quarters tooling around the neighborhood they were built in doing shakedown cruises (but NOD doesn't know that they just see the scary new capital ships sailing around).

Rosyth is less exposed than Durban, given it's protected by BZ1 being all of the North Sea coastline. Nod would have to be pretty ambitious to strike there.
 
[X] Plan: DEPLOY (with both Power and Mecca)
[X] Plan Mitigation, Income, Enterprise

In that order. Thanks HousePet.
 
Rosyth is less exposed than Durban, given it's protected by BZ1 being all of the North Sea coastline. Nod would have to be pretty ambitious to strike there.

Durban is deep in a Blue Zone, if any of these shipyards are being openly attacked with regular military forces instead of infiltrators/bombings/etc. (which geography doesn't affect) then we're in Tib War 4 or something. These are converting battleship yards to make cruisers instead, not new construction, GDI obviously thinks Durban is a safe enough place to build battleships already. It'll be fine.
 
[X] Plan Mitigation, Income, Enterprise


Moving goods and moving warships aren't even remotely the same thing.

Let's take a crate in Yokohama that must be delivered to a glacier mine in Italy. A cargo ship takes it, can go to the US West Coast, transfer it to have it go by rail to the US East coast, transfer it on a cargo ship towards England then transfer it on a Carryall towards Italy. And all that time the exposure to possible Nod ambushes is minimum and it travels in areas well-monitored by the GDI for weather problems.

A warship in Yokohama that has to go to Italy has to circumnavigate the landmasses, passing through contested waters and following lanes that are unmonitored by the GDI and/or monitored by Nod. Its transit is much more dangerous and it will need to go to places that civilian shipping can afford to not go to.

That reminds me. How is the Northwest Passages like? I understand it would be completely blocked during the winter, but any other time with almost all the plantlife in the Yellow and Red Zones dead, wouldn't global warming have taken over and melted a lot of the Arctic Circle?

Then it would be a more straightforward journey through the Bering Strait and north of Russia into Murmansk, perhaps, followed by a flight to Italy.
 
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It just feel way safer to spread them around though instead of concentrating them in one place

Every single cruiser shipyard is literally thousands of kilometers away from any other proposed cruiser shipyard? There's no concentrating going on here I dunno how you got that impression. The closest two to each other are Yokohama and Vladivostok which are still like 1100km away (in a straight line, not actually sailing on water where you have to go around Japan).
 
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Every single cruiser shipyard is literally thousands of kilometers away from any other proposed cruiser shipyard? There's no concentrating going here I dunno how you got that impression.
your post above said putting it in durban and saying how crusier can go anywhere so I thought for a sec that we had already built on their and you were advocating putting another one in the same place
 
I edited my plan to put the shipyard in Durban... but since @Absoloot 's post still has the first instance of the plan, the vote tally reads my post as making a separate plan. *shrug*

Shouldn't be that important either way, but given how there's no Suez Canal building a shipyard at South Africa seems much more useful than most locations.
I edited your new version into my post. Hopefully that fixes it.
 
This Zone Is Ours
This Zone Is Ours​

There was a rumble in the sky, the clouds twisting and bunching together above them. It was not the light grey smudge of a light rain, nor was it the thick dark grey, nearly black, clouds which heralded true thunderstorms. By now, anyone who had lived in a yellow zone for longer than a year could recognize the blinking lights and alien blooms and bursts of coloration that had no business being there. The way the clouds shifted was almost alive, alive with new gasses and elements that were not native to it. Already, there was bursts and crashes of static on the radar systems. As of yet, however, their communications arrays were still functioning, mostly, in that conversations could be held if one accepted constant drops and weak signals.

"I don't think you understand, we are already under attack! Every day, I'm dealing with bikes and buggies skirting closer and closer, and those new artillery units the Brotherhood has are popping up more and more!" A dark-skinned man snarled into the comm, a lit cigar barely maintaining its integrity as a thick veiny fist clutched it.

He stood, loomed almost, over the console, his once jet-black beard now mostly white from age and stress. Heavy wrinkles covered his face, as did more than a few scars, all of which were twisting as his lips thinned together. He was not even wearing a regular uniform but had in fact donned the under-suit requisite for properly wearing power armor. That, as well as the large if archaic revolver hand cannon on his hip granted him a rather particularly aggressive air. All around him, base staff scurried back and forth, some of them typing furiously at their consoles, others rapidly conversing with different troops spread throughout the area. Opposite him, glancing through her viewscreen towards him with remarkable calm, was a man wearing a far more finely pressed uniform, his headset perfectly aligned, without even a fourth of the bags under his eyes that the angrier man did.

"And we are aware of that commander, but you know as well as I do that you've got an ion storm, category three by the way, imminent. We simply cannot make the transfer of the remainder of the crews and materials on a whim, if not agreed upon by the Treasury. They'll be thrown out of the sky."

Yusuf Escoffier growled, but whatever he meant to say next, he paused as he glared at the hastily approaching and well-exhausted communications officer.

"What?" He boomed.

"Commander Escoffier, sir," they saluted, which Yusuf curtly returned. "Patrols 1, 2, and 4 are all reporting heavy contacts."

The elder Frenchman's eyes narrowed, his former conversation partner now finally looking somewhat alarmed.

"How heavy?"

"More than just regular raiders, sir. It looks like they've busted out a lot of old scorpion tanks from…somewhere, and…," they trailed off nervously.

"Speak up, lieutenant!" Yusuf barked.

"It's unconfirmed, but Captain Briggs swears he saw some…some walkers, sir."

Yusuf swore viciously, causing both other men to cringe and others in the base to look over.

"Avatars or Purifiers?" He half-shouted.

"We-we don't know!" The communications officer nearly yelped.

"Shit!" Yusuf whipped his head around. "Well, ensign, it looks like we might not be needing the last of the crews and materials after all."

"C-Commander Yusuf? I don't understand?"

Yusuf scoffed.

"Because that wily little bastard is making his move," he grunted, leaning close to the screen. "And it's highly likely that by the time this ion storm is over, either we'll all be dead…or he is."

He slammed the end call button and then shifted his fist over to do the same to the radio.

"Attention all troops! This is Commander Yusuf Escoffier! Nod is on the move! Get ready, children, because we're on our own out here!" He then turned back to the communications officer. "You, start getting the civilians inside the base. A favela is no place to die in a battle."

"B-but, sir? Where are we going to house them? We don't have nearly enough bunks to-,"

Yusuf laughed darkly as childhood memories of a truck trailer filled with refugees tipping over as tiberium-fueled rockets slammed into a caravan. The cigar in his hand finally gave up and crumpled to pieces as his hand clenched that much tighter.

"You'd be amazed at how many people you can stuff into a little space, lieutenant. We aren't housing them in permanence, we're just getting them out of the way. Now get to it! I've got a battle to fight."

High above, the ion storm rumbled as the very first of many lightning strikes began to strike the ground.

================================================================

There was a distinct difference between the methodical energies of an assembly line or factory inside a blue zone and the frantic, almost manic workings of a facility that was a few minutes shy of being attacked by Nod. Below the earth, on absolutely enormous rotating platforms, lay a considerable number of the super-heavy vehicle known as Super MARVs in varying stages of completion. Three of them were complete, all three sections properly hooked up, its guns complete, and all six modular hardpoints prepped and ready. In fact, by the time Yusuf got down there, now completely ensconced in his armor, his orders had proceeded him well enough such that troopers were loading themselves up into the hardpoints or were otherwise rushing out of their barracks and bunks towards their respective points. Or at least, that was going on for two of them. It was the third that he was heading towards now, heavy thumps accompanying each footstep as he barreled forward just under a full run.

"Hey! Saladin! Where are you, you-," Yusuf came to a screeching – literally, his armor's boots scraping the ground to halt his forward momentum. "Are you serious? Now?"

In front of him, the chief engineer of the assembly teams sent by ZOCOM command did not acknowledge him until he finished his prayers and rose up from his mat.

"Now, of all times when we may all be about to die? Absolutely," the man replied, his own skin slightly duskier than Yusufs. "Now, what do you need from me?"

"This tank," Yusuf said bluntly, jerking his thumb at the silent but fully assembled Super MARV.

At that, the engineer's serene expression cracked, his craggy brow lifting up bushy white eyebrows.

"Excuse me?"

"The ion storm and some kind of logistical mess-up that could be from Nod for all I care kept the last of the crews from getting here," Yusuf grunted out, his railgun creaking ever so slightly under his grip.

Saladin sputtered.

"Wha-wh, Yusuf, I am not a tank driver, or commander, or-or pilot or any of these things!"

Both men had to brace themselves as something struck the earth nearby, something which exploded. Followed by several others. Deep down in the MARV bay, the sounds of battle were still very, very faintly audible.

"You build these things?" Yusuf glared down at the shorter man. "Do you not?"

"I – yes, but-,"

"You've built these things inside and out? Different fleets, different models, different parts of the world?"

"Yusuf-,"

"Saladin," the commander placed a heavy hand sheathed in metal on the engineer's shoulders. "The people need you. If command wishes to punish me for breaking regulations, so be it, but right now, I need someone – a group of someones – who know these things well enough to drive them. We don't have anyone else."

Saladin gulped, before firming his shoulders and nodding.

"Very well. We'll…we'll begin the activation sequence."

Yusuf smiled, though the grin was obscured by his helmet.

"Good man. You'll go third, so you have time to get everything ready." Then he turned and activated his radio. "Venkman! Shiori! Let's get going already!"

"Yes, commander!" The leaders of the two actual certified Super MARV teams responded simultaneously.

Instantly, they began driving forward towards the elevator which, unfortunately, could only accommodate one of them at a time. It was Captain Venkman's Super MARV, Red Betty, who made it there first. The elevator immediately began lifting, pneumatics hissing and groaning under the weight as several zone troopers scramble atop it as well, joining their commander. The higher the elevator went, the louder the sounds of battle became. The sound of the sonic cannon warming up was almost deafening. Yusuf then turned to the rest of his fellow troopers. They had, thankfully, all been updated to the new suits by ZOCOM command and the confusing little man sitting the big chair at the Treasury, but it remained to be seen if that would be enough in the here and now.

"All right, children," Yusuf called out, getting many heads turning his way. "It looks like Nod has decided that they want us off their premises. And they're willing to slaughter their way through a camp of thousands of innocents to do it. Not, of course, that we're any stranger to Nod's monstrosities, eh?"

A resounding answer of angry negatives answered him. Some of them were hefting their railguns or sonic grenade launchers, almost shaking them over their heads in sheer savage fury.

"We know what Nod wants. We've seen it when we've gone into the reds! That's the world they want! That's the world we're trying to stop from coming into existence! What this very camp is built to do! And they want to destroy it! Are we going to let them, troopers!?"

"SIR, NO SIR!"

"DAMN STRAIGHT!" Yusuf roared.

The elevator reached the top, its gigantic metal doors sliding downwards to reveal a roaring battlefield. What looked like whole clouds of militants with rifles or rockets were swarming towards them out of the hills, while columns of scorpions and buggies pushed forward. Here and there were teams of rocket bikes spewing their tiberium-augmented missiles at every hard target they could find. As of yet, they hadn't breached past the first outer limits of the favela, the towers that Yusuf had fought hard to get installed holding them back with the rest of his forces. Now, however, it was impossible to miss that they were right next to a priority target. Especially as Captain Venkman thumbed the speaker system, his normally willowy voice bass boosted heavily until it barely sounded human.

"SUPER MARV ONLINE!"

"LET'S GIVE THEM THE HELL ON EARTH THEY WANT, RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW!" Yusuf bellowed as he triggered his rocket pack. "ILS NE PASSERONT PAS!"

He ascended into the heavens to be temporarily wreathed in contrails of ion storm electricity sparking before descending back to earth directly on top of a Nod buggy shooting at some of his infantry. His heavy power armor slammed through its bullet-resistant glass and each leg turned the torsos of the two crew inside the vehicle to super-heated chunks of meat as his thrusters fired to control his descent into them. Turning slightly, he fired his railgun into the front wheel of a passing rocket bike, tearing it apart and sending the bike and rider both flipping head over heel into a scorpion tank's treads. All around him, the rest of the zone troopers and zone raiders arrived, firing relentlessly out into the enemy.

==========================================================

"Red Betty's gotta retreat, Commander, any more hits like that and she'll crack like an egg!" Venkman's panicked voice rang out through the radio.

"She's already got enough already," Yusuf coughed as he dragged himself out of the crater that had been left behind by the missile that had nearly killed him. "Pull her back some but keep the left flank clear as best you can while the drones get to work. Shiori?"

"Death Blossom's okay!" The quaver in the woman's voice betrayed the confidence her words were meant to have.

"It is okay," a third voice entered the channel, one thick with almost audibly sweaty nervousness, "It will be okay!"

The doors to the assembly bay opened up, and finally their third Super MARV joined the battle. Almost immediately, the Nod forces pivoted once more, concentrating fire and effort as best they could. The incredibly fanatic troops that the Brotherhood always seemed to have on hand even willingly crossed killing fields and no man's lands to try and launch just one more rocket or barrage onto the new super heavy on the field. Yusuf coughed again and glared at the red splatter on the inside of his helmet which had just emerged from his throat. He glanced down and frowned at the jagged piece of metal that had somehow stabbed him in the side. How had he missed that?

"Uh, Commander! Yusuf!" Saladin's thready voice made him look up. "Walkers!"

Yusuf cursed again as he saw them. Worse, they were not Purifiers like he'd hoped. It wasn't that the more primitive versions weren't deadly, they could be incredibly horrifying for urban combat, such as a favela if he hadn't had it evacuated inside the base. The problem was that these were Avatars, and he could see by the way the beams double-lensed and focused to begin melting the remaining tanks he had on hand as well as hit the Super MARVs that they'd been upgraded with 'help' from some of their mobile beam cannons. He glanced back down at the metal in his side, and growled again.

"I'm on my way, Saladin. You hold position, you hear me?"

"I…yes! We will hold our ground. For goodness sake Samantha fire the cannon!"

"Y-yes Chief! I've just never-!"

"Press the button!"

The sonic cannon boomed out, and for a wonder the squirrely engineer who'd been placed behind the gun managed to hit one of the Avatars right in the legs, tearing the two spindly limbs apart and making them crash to the ground. Yusuf grinned through reddened teeth at that and began moving again.

"This is Commander Escoffier. I need some volunteers to accompany me. Those walkers need to go down. Today."

The problem being, of course, that the walkers were not being simply pushed to the forefront as they might have been during the Third Tiberium War. No, the Nod commander was being conservative with the incredible powerful, and dangerously versatile, walkers. Probably because they no longer possessed the resources or facilities to mass-manufacture them like the used to. Yusuf hoped. Instead, the walkers were surrounded by supporting tanks and troops. But that didn't matter. Not to Yusuf. Not today. Nor did it matter to the groups of zone troopers and zone raiders that were joining him, joining into his command link the moment they got close enough. They knew the score, just like he did.

"Well, children. One last time, for GDI and for Earth, eh?" He chuckled wetly as they all began pushing forward, jump jets activating as one.

"COME OOOOOOOOOOOOOON!" He roared, red flecking onto the insides of his helmet as he held down the trigger on his railgun from in the air.

All around him, the rest of his children did the same. Railguns fired again and again, power armored soldiers crashing down amongst the enemy. Sonic grenades thumped and fired as shoulder-mounted missile racks emptied themselves. Like a beast, Yusuf fought. His power armor let him backhand a screaming militant with enough force to decapitate, his boots could snap their legs like twigs, and his rifle thrummed in his hand again and again as he fired it. Tanks exploded, and men died. Not all of them Nod, either. An Avatar quite simply stepped on one, while another picked a zone raider up and planted the tip of its flamethrower into their face, the woman's scream audible for a single second before the fire overwhelmed. Yusuf fought on, picking up a second railgun up from a zone trooper that had been shot apart by tanks and began firing them one-handed. One zone raider managed to detonate her entire sonic grenade payload on a suicide rush at one of the Avatars, blowing a hole through its chest and out the back which killed its cybernetically linked pilot. Yusuf never stopped moving, his jump jets pushing him up and down, letting him get shots out in almost every direction.

Even the ion storm was joining the fun, moving into an even more intensive phase than before, massive lightning strikes striking the ground all around them. Neither side could afford to even try to use their air forces, and frankly even using the jet jumping capabilities of his armor was pushing it, all things considered. But Yusuf didn't care. He stumbled to the side as a lightning strike took out a scorpion tank right next to him but struggled to his feet and fired his two railguns at tank that had managed to run over a zone trooper who was still moving. He was knocked over then as a pair of militants leapt on top of him, stabbing down with knives and desperately trying to find any soft spot they could.

"KANE LIVES!" One shouted at him, eyes bloodshot and teeth cracked and yellowed right into his visor.

"YOU WON'T!" Yusuf yelled back and grabbed the militant by the throat and squeezed hard enough to hear a snap, dropping his second railgun to do so. The second militant didn't last much longer than that either, swung by their legs directly into a burning tank wreck hard enough to kill them through blunt trauma alone.

"Commander! Get down!" Saladin's voice came from strangely far away, but Yusuf complied nonetheless, throwing himself downwards as the tell-tale sounds of tri-barreled sonic cannons firing filled the air.

When Yusuf popped, or rather worked harder than he expected to rise, having to support himself on the same burning tank wreck with some twitching militant's legs sticking out of it, he beheld the devastation left behind. The Nod forces had been too distracted by their attack, by the looks of it, and the Super MARVs had taken advantage of it to truly sight in their weapons. Their precise aim had wreaked havoc amongst the zealots while a great many more ZOCOM forces were still up and at them.

"Hah! I knew you had it in you, Saladin!" He crowed and stumbled forwards, growling as his legs wobbled beneath him. "Continue the attack! I don't want these scum getting away!"

ZOCOM troops shouted assent as the ion storm continued to rage, and by now more GDI tanks were managing to push up through the ruined remains of the favela and attack the grudgingly retreating enemy. Several zone raiders were jumping ahead, just as he'd taught them, to try and get at the slower moving Nod artillery before they disappeared, escaped, or both. That the two were not mutually exclusive anymore thanks to their damn stealth systems was just one more annoyance. He'd really need to request an upgrade on the scanner packs they were assigned, on range if nothing else. Squinting, he glared up at the skies as the ion storm was starting to quiet itself. It was already fading out of existence entirely, the clouds that made it up its body dissipating utterly like ion storm clouds sometimes could. He needed to get some air defenses out, if only because Nod might try to use some venoms to...to...

"Nng," he grunted as slumped back against the burning tank and found himself staring the fallen head of one of the Avatars, wires still sparking as its own internal lights began to dim.

It felt like he was forgetting something…

"Oh. Right," he said hazily. "Medic! Dying, I think. Just…follow…transponder."

Yusuf slumped to the ground amongst the dead and the dying, and he wasn't quite sure which he was when the darkness took him.

======================================================================
"...and if it were not for the Commander's aggressive defense of our base, I do not think we would have survived by the time that the remainder of the Super MARV crews and materials arrived. And, on a personal note, his heroic deeds in forcing the enemy away from bombarding our forces and focusing instead on himself and his volunteers went above and beyond the call, and his valor should stand as an example to all members of ZOCOM and GDI. What do you think?" Saladin asked quietly, not looking up at his notepad.

"I think it sounds shit," Yusuf wheezed from his medical bed. "Don't put that in there. They'll promote me again and stick me behind a desk somewhere in a blue zone. I was born in a yellow zone, I have fought my whole career in them, excepting some parts where I was fighting in a blue or a red, and I aim to die in one."

Saladin gave a quiet laugh.

"Of course, Commander. I should tell you, the Hub's defenses have been increased as per your orders, and some of our troops are helping the civilians with rebuilding their housing."

"Good. Get Venkman and Shiori out and and clearing Tib," Yusuf leaned back onto his bed, wincing as his stitches pulled slightly. "This is our zone. Nod can't have it. Tib can't have it. Understood?"

"Of course, Commander."

"And tell me if any Nod are getting close!" The man who was medically barred from even light combat for the next few weeks shouted as Saladin left the medical bay. "I've still got my pistol, and - shit!" He cut himself off as several concerned nurses appeared from seemingly nowhere. "Away, vultures! Away! Ils ne -ghk!"
 
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