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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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TotallyNotEvil said:
Everyone carries a Thinblade because it's just a supremely good weapon, but you are including in your calcs crossbowmen, cavalry of both kinds and all the support staff.
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I mean if we ever get to the point where we can mass produce that much VS, we might as well give the damn things to everyone, just to rub it in. Unless we're feeling really extravagant, in which case VS crossbow bolts will become a thing.
 
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egoo said:
Please stop pushing Archon-agenda, it is getting uncanny now.

We are asking them about how they make weapons and ask for all lore they can spare.
This will either include PoF's, or they don't have a way to reliably and cheaply make those.

...although when we are getting answers is kind of uncertain.
DP kinda missed me pointing this part of minor actions out several times in a row, and I don't want to appear pushy or obsessed about those :/
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I have no problem coming off as pushy for this.

I want this equipment for zee legion/to sell magic weapons to people/to give more of our baby mages stuff to do.

More magic weapon production? Absolutely.

More protection from evil production? Double plus yes.
 
Azel said:
I would like that stuff, but in addition to the PfE.

The thing I want the most is the protection from mind-control. Remember that fuck-huge jellyfish-blimp the Illithid used against us? It could mind-control stuff in a radius of miles. We need to protect against this kind of bullshit and while the spells you mention are neat, they aren't addressing that particular need.
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My proposal is feasible, both in price and time needed to implement it. We could start churning these out tomorrow and have dozens of them in place by the end of next month. What ya'll want is going to be a much, much more expensive and time consuming endeavor.

Here's one method of spreading Protection from Evil to as many Legion soldiers as possible. It's the only remotely practical method I can think of.

First we start with Protection from Evil. It's a 1st level spell, but we'll be casting it at 11th level due to the necessary Metamagics.

Then we add Reach Spell to it, and not the shitty D&D version, which wouldn't be feasible at all, but the Pathfinder version which is quite nice (though DP would have to make an exception to allow us to use it). This will be a +2 spell level increase, in order to give the banner pole a range of 210 feet. If we only increased it by +1, the banner pole's range would be just 50 feet, and that would make it very difficult to keep very many Legion soldiers protected.

Next comes Chain Spell, in order to allow each casting of the spell to affect more people. The minimum caster level of the banner pole is 11th, so each casting will affect up to 12 people. This increases the spell level by another +3.

Now our spell is up to 6th level with a caster level of 11th. If it activates as often as possible, ten times per minute, it would be able to affect 120 people per minute, each of whom would be warded by Protection from Evil for 11 minutes. Assuming maximum possible efficiency, the banner pole could ward up to 1,320 Legion soldiers without allowing the effect to fall off any of them, so long as they stayed within range.

(6 x 11) x 1,800 = 118,800 gold / 10 = 11,880 IM (59 enchanting days)

If we increase the Reach Spell level adjustment to +3 in order to give it a range of 920 feet, the banner pole would instead have a minimum caster level of 13th the the Protection from Evil effect would be the equivalent to a 7th level spell. In that case, each casting of the spell would affect 14 people, or 140 per minute, and up to 1,820 could be warded continuously, again assuming maximum efficiency.

(7 x 13) x 1,800 = 163,800 gold / 10 = 16,380 IM (81.9 enchanting days)

And if we add Extend Spell into the mix to double the duration, the Protection from Evil becomes an 8th level spell with a minimum caster level of 15th. Range would increase to 1,000 feet and 160 people per minute could be affected, up to 4,800 now that the effect lasts 30 minutes.

(8 x 15) x 1,800 = 216,000 gold / 10 = 21,600 IM (108 enchanting days)

My apologies for getting overly pedantic here, but I'm just trying to be realistic about what we can reasonably accomplish. If ya'll want to do this, my advice would be to immediately go to Armun Kelisk and the Opaline Vault and commission ten of them in each. The last of the three I provided pricing for would be the most expensive and take the longest, but would also be the most practical, given the potential range of the effect and how many people could be affected. In a little over 3.5 months we could have enough enchanted banner poles to protect 96,000 Legion soldiers, at a combined price of 864,000 IM (remember, market price is double what we pay to enchant stuff on our own).
 
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Azel said:
It's sufficient suspicion to take a little stroll through Varys brain and if we don't find anything in there that justifies sacrificing him, I'm eating my hat.
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Problem with that is Varys of all people likely hasn't gotten his hands on magic to defend his mind in general.

On another note, do people think we should consider waking up Malarys' devil hating colleague from his nap and recruit him to our cause? Unlike before we have lots to offer in general and we could use a high level inquisitor doing stuff like that in background to further delegate matters.
 
Goldfish said:
My proposal is feasible, both in price and time needed to implement it. We could start churning these out tomorrow and have dozens of them in place by the end of next month. What ya'll want is going to be a much, much more expensive and time consuming endeavor.

Here's one method of spreading Protection from Evil to as many Legion soldiers as possible. It's the only remotely practical method I can think of.

First we start with Protection from Evil. It's a 1st level spell, but we'll be casting it at 11th level due to the necessary Metamagics.

Then we add Reach Spell to it, and not the shitty D&D version, which wouldn't be feasible at all, but the Pathfinder version which is quite nice (though DP would have to make an exception to allow us to use it). This will be a +2 spell level increase, in order to give the banner pole a range of 210 feet. If we only increased it by +1, the banner pole's range would be just 50 feet, and that would make it very difficult to keep very many Legion soldiers protected.

Net comes Chain Spell, in order to allow each casting of the spell to affect more people. The minimum caster level of the banner pole is 11th, so each casting will affect up to 12 people. This increases the spell level by another +3.

Now our spell is up to 6th level with a caster level of 11th. If it activates as often as possible, ten times per minute, it would be able to affect 120 people per minute, each of whom would be warded by Protection from Evil for 11 minutes. Assuming maximum possible efficiency, the banner pole could ward up to 1,320 Legion soldiers without allowing the effect to fall off any of them, so long as they stayed within range.

(6 x 11) x 1,800 = 118,800 gold / 10 = 11,880 IM (59 enchanting days)

If we increase the Reach Spell level adjustment to +3 in order to give it a range of 920 feet, the banner pole would instead have a minimum caster level of 13th the the Protection from Evil effect would be the equivalent to a 7th level spell. In that case, each casting of the spell would affect 14 people, or 140 per minute, and up to 1,820 could be warded continuously, again assuming maximum efficiency.

(7 x 13) x 1,800 = 163,800 gold / 10 = 16,380 IM (81.9 enchanting days)

And if we add Extend Spell into the mix, the Protection from Evil becomes an 8th level spell with a minimum caster level of 15th. Range would increase to 1,000 feet and 160 people per minute could be affected, up to 2,400.

(8 x 15) x 1,800 = 216,000 gold / 10 = 21,600 IM (108 enchanting days)

My apologies for getting overly pedantic here, but I'm just trying to be realistic about what we can reasonably accomplish. If ya'll want to do this, my advice would be to immediately go to Armun Kelisk and the Opaline Vault and commission ten of them in each. The last of the three I provided pricing for would be the most expensive and take the longest, but would also be the most practical, given the potential range of the effect and how many people could be affected. In a little over 3.5 months we could have enough enchanted banner poles to protect 48,000 Legion soldiers, at a combined price of 864,000 IM (remember, market price is double what we pay to enchant stuff on our own).
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This is really bothering me now. Why not magic circle?

Shouldn't it be easier since it's already AOE?
 
Goldfish said:
My proposal is feasible, both in price and time needed to implement it. We could start churning these out tomorrow and have dozens of them in place by the end of next month. What ya'll want is going to be a much, much more expensive and time consuming endeavor.

Here's one method of spreading Protection from Evil to as many Legion soldiers as possible. It's the only remotely practical method I can think of.

First we start with Protection from Evil. It's a 1st level spell, but we'll be casting it at 11th level due to the necessary Metamagics.

Then we add Reach Spell to it, and not the shitty D&D version, which wouldn't be feasible at all, but the Pathfinder version which is quite nice (though DP would have to make an exception to allow us to use it). This will be a +2 spell level increase, in order to give the banner pole a range of 210 feet. If we only increased it by +1, the banner pole's range would be just 50 feet, and that would make it very difficult to keep very many Legion soldiers protected.

Next comes Chain Spell, in order to allow each casting of the spell to affect more people. The minimum caster level of the banner pole is 11th, so each casting will affect up to 12 people. This increases the spell level by another +3.

Now our spell is up to 6th level with a caster level of 11th. If it activates as often as possible, ten times per minute, it would be able to affect 120 people per minute, each of whom would be warded by Protection from Evil for 11 minutes. Assuming maximum possible efficiency, the banner pole could ward up to 1,320 Legion soldiers without allowing the effect to fall off any of them, so long as they stayed within range.

(6 x 11) x 1,800 = 118,800 gold / 10 = 11,880 IM (59 enchanting days)

If we increase the Reach Spell level adjustment to +3 in order to give it a range of 920 feet, the banner pole would instead have a minimum caster level of 13th the the Protection from Evil effect would be the equivalent to a 7th level spell. In that case, each casting of the spell would affect 14 people, or 140 per minute, and up to 1,820 could be warded continuously, again assuming maximum efficiency.

(7 x 13) x 1,800 = 163,800 gold / 10 = 16,380 IM (81.9 enchanting days)

And if we add Extend Spell into the mix, the Protection from Evil becomes an 8th level spell with a minimum caster level of 15th. Range would increase to 1,000 feet and 160 people per minute could be affected, up to 2,400.

(8 x 15) x 1,800 = 216,000 gold / 10 = 21,600 IM (108 enchanting days)

My apologies for getting overly pedantic here, but I'm just trying to be realistic about what we can reasonably accomplish. If ya'll want to do this, my advice would be to immediately go to Armun Kelisk and the Opaline Vault and commission ten of them in each. The last of the three I provided pricing for would be the most expensive and take the longest, but would also be the most practical, given the potential range of the effect and how many people could be affected. In a little over 3.5 months we could have enough enchanted banner poles to protect 48,000 Legion soldiers, at a combined price of 864,000 IM (remember, market price is double what we pay to enchant stuff on our own).
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Wouldn't it be better to focus on metamagics to improve duration instead of increasing range?
And how about Magic Circle? That's pretty much literally what the spell's for after all!
 
Or, perhaps crafting this kind of large scale item isn't as trivial as scaling up personal-use ones, and thus we need some specific rules for it?

Like the magical banner we already looted.
 
zxzx24 said:
This is really bothering me now. Why not magic circle?

Shouldn't it be easier since it's already AOE?
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TalonofAnathrax said:
Wouldn't it be better to focus on metamagics to improve duration instead of increasing range?
And how about Magic Circle? That's pretty much literally what the spell's for after all!
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Duration doesn't do you any good if your people aren't within range of the spell. Reached and Chained Protection from Evil is the only practical way to do it, using the magic item creation rules. If DP wants to fudge something for us, then that's another ballgame entirely.

Magic Circle Against Evil is only a 10ft radius AoE. As a third level spell, it could be Widened a maximum of two times, increasing its radius to 40 feet, but then it would be a 9th level spell.

I made a slight mistake in the math on my earlier post for the 8th level version. I forgot to include the Extend Spell's doubled duration, which means the banner pole could affect up to 4,800 Legion soldiers.

There is one more boost we could put on it, to add Enlarge Spell. That would raise the Protection from Evil to a 9th level spell effect with a minimum caster level of 17th. In that cast, 180 people could be affected per minute, or up to 6,120 within a range of 2,160 feet.

(9 x 17) x 1,800 = 275,400 gold / 27,540 IM (137.7 crafting days)

This is the most expensive option, but also the best for affecting the most people over the largest possible range.
 
Goldfish said:
If DP wants to fudge something for us, then that's another ballgame entirely.
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He indicated as much. I'm aware that scaling up regular PfE would not really work.

Let's just wait until DP had some time to mull it over. We don't need to decide this until the next turn-vote and we will figure something out. Like working off the Banner of Slayers to attune soldiers to the thing. That alone would make a lot of stuff much easier, as we no longer have to muck around with ranges or number of people affected per casting.
 
In unrelated news, I did some rules-wrangling myself.
The Harbinger, CR 15
N Huge Construct
Init 4, Senses Darkvision 120ft, Blindsense 60ft;

Defense
AC 30, touch 12, flat-footed 26 (-2 size, +4 Dexterity, +18 natural)
HP 185 (20d10+80)
Fort -, Ref +10, Will +9
DR 15/Adamantine, Fast Healing 5
Immune construct traits, magic
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 15th)
At will - Fire Eyes, Voice of the Dragon, Elemental Darts (Fire only)
3/day Firebrand, Greater Thunderstomp
1/day Aerial Alacrity

Offense
Speed 40ft, fly 200ft. (poor)
Melee 3 bite +26 (2d8 + 1d6 (Fire) + 16), 2 wings +20 (1d8 + 1d6 (Fire) +5), tail slap +20 (2d6 + 1d6 (Fire) + 5)
Space 15 ft.; Reach 10 ft.; 15ft. with bite
Special Attacks: 3 breath weapon (50-ft cone, DC 24 Reflex, 12d10 fire)

Statistics
Str 33, Dex 18, Con -, Int 14, Wis 16, Cha 18
Base Atk +15;
Feats Alertness, Cleave, Greater Cleave, Fly-By Attack, Power Attack, Hover, Fly-By Breath, Strafing Breath
Skills Diplomacy +4, Bluff +8, Intimidate +23, Knowledge (Law) +18, Sense Motive +23, Spot +10, Listen +10
Language: Common, Draconic

Special Abilities
Immunity to Magic (Ex): The Harbinger is immune to spells or spell-like abilities that allow spell resistance, except his own spell-like abilities. Certain spells and effects function differently against it, as noted below.
A magical attack that deals cold damage slows the Harbinger down as the Slow spell for 3 rounds without a save.
A magical attack that deals fire damage breaks any slow effect on the Harbinger and heals 1 point of damage for each 3 points of damage the attack would otherwise deal. If the amount of healing would cause the Harbinger to exceed its full normal hit points, it gains any excess as temporary hit points. A Harbinger gets no saving throw against fire effects.

Fire Aura (Ex): The Harbinger is surrounded by an aura of intense heat. All creatures within 5 feet take 1d6 points of fire damage at the beginning of the Harbingers turn. Furthermore, all natural attacks deal an additional 1d6 Fire damage and any creature attacking the Harbinger in close combat, except when using a Reach weapon, takes 1d6 Fire damage. This effect can be turned on or off as a Standard action.

Pounce (Ex): When a creature with this special attack makes a charge, it can make a full attack.

Valyrian Steel (Ex): All natural weapons of the Harbinger count as Lawful, Evil and Valyrian Steel for the purpose of overcoming Damage Reduction.

Wildfyre (Su): All Fire damaged dealt by the Harbinger is considered to have the Searing Property. Furthermore, once per day, he can add the effects of the Fire Mastery feat to any one attack that deals Fire damage.

Inferno (Su): Once per day as a Full Round action, the three heads of the Harbinger can combine their breath weapons for a devastating attack. This ability affects a 60ft cone and deals 18d10 fire damage, DC 28 Reflex save for half. He cannot use his breath weapons for 1d4 rounds after using this ability.


Wrought from Valyrian Steel and brought to life by the all consuming flames of Wildfyre, this construct was made in the image of the Targaryen banner.
It's skin is dark red, like dried blood and appears almost black and wreathed in an unearthly green glow as the flames contained within leak through every tiny opening within it's scales.
Unlike his lesser bretheren the Heralds, the Harbinger has little mind for word-plays. It's purpose is not diplomacy, but to deliver ultimatums and woe to those who take them lightly.
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He is based on the Pathfinder monster creation rules.

@Goldfish, @TotallyNotEvil, thoughts?
 
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@Azel, would you mind adding in Aerial Alacrity as an Ex in there? It's provides very nice flight bonuses that would be well worth the extra cost. It could be another thing that sets it apart from the Heralds.
 
Duesal said:
@Azel, would you mind adding in Aerial Alacrity as an Ex in there? It's provides very nice flight bonuses that would be well worth the extra cost. It could be another thing that sets it apart from the Heralds.
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Added it as a 1/day SLA. Giving this thing more mobility should be done carefully, as it's basically a flying, industrial-grade blender.
Goldfish said:
It needs a pilot compartment, from which Varys the Pseudodragon can direct it in glorious battle.

The Scorching Ray SLA seems superfluous to me.
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I felt it really, really needed something ranged with a bit of precision, since any other ranged attack it has can be summed up as "fuck everything in that general direction".

It's more a tactical tool then anything that it would use during full intensity combat.
 
Azel said:
I felt it really, really needed something ranged with a bit of precision, since any other ranged attack it has can be summed up as "fuck everything in that general direction".

It's more a tactical tool then anything that it would use during full intensity combat.
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At 15th caster level, Scorching Ray only has a range of 60 feet, while its At-Will Elemental Fire Darts have a range of 250 feet. I think the darts covers your ranged precision requirement pretty thoroughly.
 
So, for those with knowledge of D&D, is there some way to have a falling object/creature deal damage without the object/creature itself being damaged?

 
@Azel, side note, but the original Herald design was wrought of ordinary steel and it made sense for it to possibly have a rusty color. The Harbinger on the other hand is going to be Valyrian Steel, and it makes more sense for it to show that distinctive dark and smoky coloring off rather than being painted red.
 
Duesal said:
@Azel, side note, but the original Herald design was wrought of ordinary steel and it made sense for it to possibly have a rusty color. The Harbinger on the other hand is going to be Valyrian Steel, and it makes more sense for it to show that distinctive dark and smoky coloring off rather than being painted red.
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It's not painted a vibrant red, but a very dark tone, as befitting for VS.

Something along these lines:
 
Azel said:
He is based on the Pathfinder monster creation rules.
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Damage is more than twice the average, and half again as high as a Mature Adult Red, which PF considers CR 15. Lose the two claw attacks and lower strenght by six, and it comes to a little over 100 average damage, so you are at about 1.5x average damage for CR 15. This also brings the attack bonus down a bit.

So it's top tier still, by crazy PF standards. In 3.5 I'd say it's CR 16-17.

If it already hadn't a super strong melee, I'd say make Fire Aura give its attacks 1d6 fire damage, but that's not necessary in the least here, even if it's logical, and cool. You could give it this effect if you reduced the bites to 1.0x strenght instead of 1.5x. Assuming you tone strenght down to 30, you'd gain about 6.5 damage against non-fire immune foes and lose about 5 against those who only take half due the searing, which seems neat.

I'd maybe have everyone attacking it take 1d6 fire every time they hit it with natural or non-reach weapons, compensates for its lower HP.

Will save is extraordinarily low.

I'd lose the Fireball and make the Firebrand 3/day.

How long do that temp HP last? How high can it go?

I would put a longer cooldown on Inferno. Maybe 3d4?

It should have 92 skill points. Are they all there?

Also, it definitely should have maxxed Knowledge (Law).
 
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