I often feel that we're wasting valuable time and money crafting useless shit instead of having Lya level like crazy as she should be. Do we really need to gear up nonessential PCs like crazy? Sure if they have a place in our administration or if they're over CR10 and loyal to us (so FUCK NO TO ERINYE BLING beyond the basic PFE + Disguise stuff, or to gearing up every single flying animal we have with permanent wings of air), but otherwise they can pay for their own shit. Tor's buddies were the most recent culprits I can think of.
Oh, and of course I'm strongly against a giant Wall. Walls are a flawed paradigm that cannot be relevant to any serious enemy. And I'm studying urban planning for another year starting tomorrow, so please trust me when I say that city walls are a huge pain in the ass to city administrators and planners, even centuries after they've been torn down.

Did you also cry? I got depressed for an entire day thanks to that, Dom Pedro II must be crying in his grave thanks to this tragedy.
I was giving a tour of the Louvre when we got the news (I work summers as a tour guide, like many anglophones in Paris) and the curators were rather distressed. Meanwhile the woman in charge of overall ticket sales (and who also handles visibility strategy) was overjoyed to see international competition go down and really bad at hiding it all day. His staff can't have liked that attitude!
 
Vote closed. Sorry I took so long. I had to go out unexpectedly.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Sep 3, 2018 at 7:48 AM, finished with 222840 posts and 10 votes.
 
Full control of the western Essosi economy? Perhaps the Westerosi economy as well? Tax revenue from every form of commerce that sails our sea, travels our roads, or conducts extraplanar business in our lands? Tolls for using the highways or seas to transport goods?

And we have very different ideas about how essential our crafting efforts have been.
Already in there, but you know how it is. Running vast bureaucracies to collect them also takes up a lot of money to run them. The standing army is also a huge expenditure.

As it is, we would be stable for a state, but with our ambitions and habits, we are only barely staying solvent.

And I meant essential in the sense of "the state isn't collapsing without it". We could live without crafting for three months, but not without paying the Legion for that time.


As it is, I've already quietly cut corners. I wanted to propose a Fungus Forge budget back when @AntaeusTheGiant proposed to utilise the thing more. I've ran the numbers and quietly decided not to bring it up unless there was major support, because another 20,000 IM a month would tear a hole in our finances.

Seriously. I'm doing what I can to keep the important stuff funded, but it's plugging a sieve with my fingers.
 
I think on some level gambling is a habit we have to just pull the tooth from and kick.

I can't promise anything, but I'm with you. I think relying on maybe keeping our coffers solvent off the back of risky expeditions is foolhardy. I think for a start, we already can't keep the thread from going on at least one adventure every month, but in reality it ends up being more like two.

So let's make the crafting budget whatever we pick up during those outings. If we get nothing, no crafting.

It seems fair, no?
No. That's far too random.

We have too many people that need a certain amount of equipment to give them the ability to survive the threats we face, if we want them to continue increasing in power and skill without having to worry about using Raise Dead or Resurrection on them when they are overwhelmed. Very little of what we craft could be considered any sort of vanity project, IMO.

That said, things should quieten down next month from a crafting perspective, and we can actually start looking into using Valeria for teaching or research, sending Rina on more adventures (which I'm really looking forward to, as the more high level Clerics we have, the better) as we have started this turn, and maybe even convincing Leila to go on some low CR, minimum risk excursions so she can level as well.

This month would have been much less of a drain if not for the sudden acquisition of ten Erinyes, who contrary to @TalonofAnathrax's opinion, are very much worth adequately equipping. Each of them is a CR 9 combatant when barely armed, but equip them like a PC and that climbs to CR 10. We want them as effective as possible, and as loyal as we can manage, even if that requires purchasing their loyalty.

Very soon we should have the free crafting capacity to begin producing and selling basic enchanted equipment, even if we have to do so on extraplanar markets. Generally, you can sell a magic item for twice what it cost to craft.
 
Already in there, but you know how it is. Running vast bureaucracies to collect them also takes up a lot of money to run them. The standing army is also a huge expenditure.

As it is, we would be stable for a state, but with our ambitions and habits, we are only barely staying solvent.

And I meant essential in the sense of "the state isn't collapsing without it". We could live without crafting for three months, but not without paying the Legion for that time.
So this seems like a huge problem that isn't going to go away in the near future, and we need solutions. I'm not convinced owning Essos from the Stepstones to Tolos won't earn us a lot more capital, but you're correct in that we're also never going to be running out things to spend our money on.

So let's focus on short term stopgaps. Looking at this from a nation-state perspective we're in a pickle, but we have options. I think we should look into gaining a serious payday through adventuring. We have no shortage of enemies, surely we could make a dedicated expedition towards stealing a considerable amount of their money?
 
Last edited:
As I see it, walls are most useful to the smaller, flar flung places and rural towns where prompt PC response is far from guaranteed. Because those are where a fez dozen sahuagin will raise up and raid with impunity, and that's where a sturdy wall with a halfway decent militia will make the difference.

For big cities, it seems pretty good for controlling smuggling and handling the city in a crisis.
Circumstance modifiers do stack though? Although it should cost extra from being an unusual bonus type.
@Goldfish, please removen't the chameleon item
You are either concealed by blending in with shadows or blending in with the environment.

Pick one
 
@Goldfish, there is still a huge pile of constructs left to craft for the Legion and our fleet.
Yep. I expect Constructs to be the single largest crafting expenditure next turn. Thankfully, our Elemental Wyrmlings, False Ravens, and the Herald/Bigger Fish(whenever we get around to building them) are all Intelligent, which gives us a 10% discount on their construction due to that bit of ritual magic Lya was able to salvage when we ganked the False Man in the ruins of Sallosh.
 
Honestly just relegate this all to the next five year plan. By then we should be working on a Cobtinental economy and most of our core infrastructure projects should be done. At our build speed uber walls really are just last minute emergency preparations for cities anyway. We can use them to shore cities up when the war comes. Or not. Meh.
 
And now that I've talked about how the crafting expenses should start to go down soon, I've just had an idea for another project that would be just as expensive as the Hardening Chamber.

It would be a bottling facility, but not one that bottled beverages of any sort. Instead, it would bottle Legion soldiers and other combatants, such as adventurers, using Smoky Confinement, which DP has already ruled gets around the limit of living beings counting as passengers. They could then be mass Teleported or Plane Shifted by anyone capable of using such travel magic. One of the Erinyes would be perfect for the task.

Operating at full capacity, the bottling facility could affect up to 600 individuals per hour. If each tiny bottle weighed one ounce, an Erinyes could transport 800 of them with their 50 pound Teleport capacity, minus the weight of the container holding all of the bottles. Let's say 600 bottles for a nice round number, with the container weighing 12.5 pounds.

That's instant deployment of an army wherever we need it. Or multiple armies. This would obviate the need to use the Shadow Tower to transport large numbers of people, and would be able to do so much more effectively.

So, thoughts? :)
 
I really thought taxes, the SSE, and the ACSE were all picking up the slack recently? I had no idea our finances were doing downright poorly.
 
You didn't read closely enough @Duesal. We're doing well. Any other realm would be completely stable, and booming.

It's our monthly expenses which are both constant, consistently straddling the borderline, and always increasing without fail whenever we end up making more than expected the previous turn.

Not that long ago we were consuming 20-25k IM in crafting budget, with our usual 50,000 IM reagents usually lasting two months. Now we consume 40,000 a month, requiring 100,000 reagent purchases just to keep up with the expanding wishlist, and to avoid having to resupply at a different interval.

It doesn't leave much leeway for @Azel to make new investments either.
 
Last edited:
You didn't read closely enough @Duesal. We're doing well. Any other realm would be completely stable, and booming.

It's our monthly expenses which are both constant, consistently straddling the borderline, and always increasing without fail whenever we end up making more than expected the previous turn.

Not that long ago we were consuming 20-25k IM in crafting budget, with our usual 50,000 IM reagents usually lasting two months. Now we consume 40,000 a month, requiring 100,000 reagent purchases just to keep up with the expanding wishlist, and to avoid having to resupply at a different interval.

It doesn't leave much leeway for @Azel to make new investments either.
Those investments are kind of dire for us staying afloat. I guess solutions include fetch quests to boost the treasury (like Shaitan missions against the Efreeti to get some nifty loot and get paid for getting nifty loot) and/or putting a bit of a pause of the crafting schedule so we can get those investments made.
 
Reducing the crafting is a given, since it frees up certain characters for adventures, which means possibly more loot.

Though with our financial needs, only the main party consistently pull in an appreciable amount of loot that could actually balance our books, and given a lot of party time is needed to manage things at home, adventuring, unsurprisingly, isn't a viable solution to keep us solvent. Unsurprisingly.

The only way for adventuring to legitimately pay for our expenses is if we strike intelligently, with lots of intel, after targets specifically with off-kilter wealth compared to their apparent level. Basically, an Illyrio type deal. Because while the threats were appropriate for our CR, we knew damn well he was filthy rich, and even with his assets being tied up, we still eked out quite a lot of wealth from it.

That's a benefit to picking your target intelligently. It accomplished a political goal while also filling our pockets.

Raiding a dungeon sucks up a lot of time, and sometimes the loot is just magic items. Which we may or may not want to use. But they have no effect on our crafting budget whatsoever, unless we decide to sell them.

And we're filthy fucking magpies, we never sell anything unique.
 
Reducing the crafting is a given, since it frees up certain characters for adventures, which means possibly more loot.

Though with our financial needs, only the main party consistently pull in an appreciable amount of loot that could actually balance our books, and given a lot of party time is needed to manage things at home, adventuring, unsurprisingly, isn't a viable solution to keep us solvent. Unsurprisingly.

The only way for adventuring to legitimately pay for our expenses is if we strike intelligently, with lots of intel, after targets specifically with off-kilter wealth compared to their apparent level. Basically, an Illyrio type deal. Because while the threats were appropriate for our CR, we knew damn well he was filthy rich, and even with his assets being tied up, we still eked out quite a lot of wealth from it.

That's a benefit to picking your target intelligently. It accomplished a political goal while also filling our pockets.
Hence raiding the Efreeti and getting paid to do it. ;) The City of Brass is wealthier than the freaking Opaline Vault. A war against them is sinfully profitable for us.
Raiding a dungeon sucks up a lot of time, and sometimes the loot is just magic items. Which we may or may not want to use. But they have no effect on our crafting budget whatsoever, unless we decide to sell them.

And we're filthy fucking magpies, we never sell anything unique.
Eh, that loot does plenty imo. Sure, sometimes it ends up just sitting in our armory like that Valyrian Steel Armor of Twilight we took off the Daemon Cultist because no one we have is really fit to wear it and/or just has better gear, but a lot of other times it outright saves us from having to craft or buy more equipment.

Just off the top of my head, the Rods of Quickening come to mind as high-end loot that otherwise would have taken us ages to craft.

I do get where you're coming from, though. It'd be nice if our loot was more monetary.
 
The thing with investments isn't a lack of funds, but that I'm genuinely running out of ideas that are sustainable. We are already a major exporter of manufactured goods, with SDs output rivaling that of Tyrosh, which is an order of magnitude larger. But expanding those operations? That would crash the market.

Luckily, freeing slaves revitalizes a large, untapped market, allowing us to increase monetary velocity and thus taxes and profits, but that takes time. Yet we need the funds now, not in half a year.
 
Again, that's not a failing on the narrative's part, when we can legitimately scope out a target to heist like we have done in the past.

When we choose to gamble, sometimes we get something, but it might not be what we want.

When we choose to take something that we know is there, we get rewarded.
 
Part MMCCLXVII:: A Gift of Gold
A Gift of Gold

Elsewhen Elsewhere

Once more you dream, a shadow bound to days long past, but this time it is as though you see the world through veils of grey cloying mist. You know the green lands beneath you, but you cannot remember their names. You know the roars of the great lizards which echo in your ears, but they too slip from your mind. There is only the wind beneath your wings, sleep coiled upon warms stone... the fire of battle... and her: rider, lord, master, these names you know her by, but also alone of all the world you can remember her name: Jaenara.

Though you were not the swiftest nor to the strongest of your clutch, she had chosen you for being the boldest and most skillful flier. You still remember with a satisfaction as hot as the fire in your belly how you had tricked the eldest and strongest of your siblings to attack her protectors so that you might rescue her. Scar had died upon her guards' spear but you felt her eyes upon you, measuring. She had seemed almost afraid for you and made no sound to her minders. A secret... Your head hurt with the understanding, and something within you rose up to lull it way like the sound of the wind and the touch of sunlight on scales. Then she gave you her blood...

...to Hells with old legends and priestly mumbles...

...you'll help me, won't you....

...we'll be strong together...

Strong,
you like the thought of being strong, even more this new strength that means more than that of tooth, claw, and flame. From that day forth you took care not to seem too clever with anyone but her.

Thus the two of you flew farther every time, first to the singing place where Jaenara learns of the not-fire that can do more than burn, then over the sea carrying strange scale-chaffing things, last over the green rustling land.

Day after day you hunt and fly, rest in caves and hollows or under shadow of the great trees. Though the beasts are large, their scales tough, and their fangs long and jagged, they have no fire of their own fire, and so you roast the flesh from their bones if they would dare attack you or Her.

***​

When the trees die and the sun turns brighter, you stretch out, satisfied at the change. No more rain or steam, no more green thickets for the beasts to hide in. She is excited about something... the not-caves up ahead. As you stare at them for lack of anything else to turn your eye to, a strange thought comes to you. Stone upon stone fitting together... slowly you remember the caves the masters live in and realize they had made them... Who had made these, then? Had they left anything worth taking behind... Old Instincts whisper at the back of your mind in a tongue you no longer remember, and all at once you are gripped by the notion of owning the sun... Idly you start scraping into the dirt.

"How did you know this was there?" she sounded pleased at the glittering thing you had found, but for the first time in all your years you did not want her to have something... you wanted something that was not meat or water but this shiny stone. You shield it with a clawed forelimb.

She makes the happy sound and coils some of the shinny stuff around your claw... chain, the word floats up into your thoughts. Then before you can follow the strange thoughts any further, a great fiery roar shakes the dunes, the very stones you stand among. A wingless beast with fire in its gullet charges through a wall, the very sand fusing into glass beneath its feet.


Jaenara calls the not-fire... magic... but the thing shakes it off with an angry roar. You breathe flame at it hotter than you ever hand before burning white, but it is not enough. Your rider barely manages to roll out of the way. You smell her blood boiling off the burning sands. You try to rake the thing with your claws but there is no room to get a proper grip. If you break everything She will die. There has to be another way...

Pain unlike anything you could have imagine wracks you, like the weight of a mountain had suddenly been laid upon you, crushing you to nothingness. You want to fly to flee away from the pain, to hunt and kill and rest. She will die.

A sound comes out of your mouth, a sound that is not a roar or a tumble of flame, but something different older, torn from the heart of the pain... or beyond it.

Your rider is on her feet, eyes wide with some feeling you cannot name. She speaks a word of death, and you know it for what it is even as the fire beast falls to dust. You remember.

Dim broken images as sundered chains still rattle through your mind, you remember what you might have been and you understand the horror of what they had made you. Rage boils in your veins and for the first time matched by hatred black as tar. She had done this to you and yours, She and all her kin... She was kin. Without her you would be alone.

You try to make more of the strange sounds... speaking: "What do?"

Jaenara looks up at you in wonder and a little fear. Part of you liked seeing the fear, but you make no move to hurt her. "So I guess the priests were right after all. We can't go back now. They'd kill us both..."

"Why both?" you ask, needing to know.

"Because that's how it goes with dragons and riders. You are mine and I am yours," she replies speaking slowly.

"Stay," you nod, keenly aware of the little golden chain. Raising that claw you proclaim. "Share..."

Jaenara makes the happy sound again... laughter... for the longest time you have ever heard it.

***​

Sixth Day of the Fifth Month 293 AC

You wake with a start, memories of magic fire and age old secrets swirling in your mind, and through them all a name is threatened, one the dream did not hold but you knew nonetheless from histories learned as a boy—Terrax, dragon of Jaenara Belaerys who had vanished on her third expedition into the wilds of Sothoryos. Not dead, but lost to the Freehold just the same it seems...

OOC: There was 85% chance that Terrax would eat his rider after awakening, but the dice fell in favor of the less likely outcome. On another note could someone help me out with updating Viserys' sheets. I seem to recall someone pointing out there was something wrong with the dragon forms.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top